TwelverShia.net Forum

From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ibn Yahya

From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« on: May 07, 2015, 09:54:31 PM »
I would like to make this a short and brief essay about one of the main reasons why I left Shi'ism. I am sure my fellow reverts from Shi'ism have talked about the misinterpretation of Hadith al-Ghadeer and the contradictions within the Rafidi view of Hadith ath-Thaqalayn and the many things about Shi'ism that simply do not add up. But I would like to address a big issue that actually right from the beginning hindered my adherence to Shi'i Rafidism which is

What exactly was so awful about Abu Bakr?

Shi'ism has always asserted the view that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were awful, murderous, oppressive, impious etc etc. Now it was very easy for me to embrace hatred for Umar and Uthman due to all the Rafidi criticism (using largely weak hadiths might I add), but I could never in my heart I don't think accept that Abu Bakr was evil. I mean every time the Shi'ah cite a source against him it didn't seem to paint him as evil. In fact some of them even paint Abu Bakr in a good light. Here I will quote a post from shiachat that does just that.

Quote
Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for
Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would
have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a
shelter."

Sunni books references:
- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116
- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234982731-attack-to-house-of-fatimah-by-umar-and-abubakr/

Now let's analyse this. If we read this, it doesn't paint Abu Bakr as an evil oppressive tyrant. It paints him (provided that these reports are trustworthy) as a sincere individual who regretted what happened, he clearly did it with the best of intention. It shows him as "as-Siddiq". Also let's look at this critically:

  • They are using historical sources that accept the Khilafat of Abu Bakr and Umar
  • They are using historical sources that affirm a lot of the Sunni view
  • So why don't they accept Sunni sources?

I'd also like to address another point about the issue of hypocrisy and nitpicking with Sunni sources. The Shi'i Rafidi scholar names Sayyid Kazim Tabataba'i made a book examining all the narrations that could be seen as affirming the Shi'ah Rafidah perspective  in Musnad al-Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (RH) called "Glimpses of Shi'ism in the Musnad of Ibn Hanbal" (here it is http://islamicmobility.com/pdf/Glimpses%20of%20Shiism%20Musnad%20Ibn%20Hanbal.pdf). Now I'm sure if we went through the Sanad of all these narrations we'd find many of them to be weak. And I'm sure there are many arguments in there that have been refuted as favouring Shi'ism on this forum and elsewhere. But let's point out a few things.

  • He is accepting the authenticity and reliability of Ahmad ibn Hanbal
  • He is using the narrations of Ahmad ibn Hanbal and therefore must accept the truthfulness and reliability of the narrators that he has used

So then why won't he accept narrations like these?

Quote
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas: Ali bin Abi Talib came out of the house of Allah's Messenger during his fatal illness. The people asked, "O Abul Hasan (i.e. Ali)! How is the health of Allah's Messenger this morning?" 'Ali replied, "He has recovered with the Grace of Allah." Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, "In three days, you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah's Messenger will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of 'Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah's Messenger and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us." Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Messenger for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger for it."
- Musnad al-Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal; Volume 4, Hadith 2374 & Volume 5, Hadith 229

Quote
"It was said: O Messenger of Allah, Who should be installed as a leader after you? He said: If you install Abu Bakr, you will find him honest, ascetic in this life and desirious of the Hereafter. If you install Omar, you will find him strong, honest, fearing in Allah no one is to blame. If you install Ali, and I don't think you will, you will find him guided, guiding you to the straight path."
- Musnad al-Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal; Volime 2, Hadith 859

And countless other hadiths on the virtues of Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (RA), Umar al-Faruq (RA) and Uthman al-Ghani (RA).

I'd like to finish on this point. The great historian and scholar Jalaladdin as-Suyuti (RH) narrated this Hadith in his book Tarikh al-Khulafah:

Quote
Az-Zubayr ibn Bakkar and Ibn Asakir narrated that Ma'ruf ibn
Kharrabudh said: Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, may Allah be pleased with
him, was one of ten men of Quraysh who united pre-eminence in Jahiliyyah and Islam. He had responsibility for the settlement of blood-money and debts. That was because Quraysh had no king to whom all affairs could be referred. Rather in each tribe there was a general area of responsibility which resided in its chief; so that Banu Hashim had responsibility for giving (the pilgrims) to drink, and feeding them (by collecting from the tribes of Quraysh), meaning that no-one ate or drank except from their food and drink. Banu 'Abd ad-Dar had responsibility for being the doorkeepers and guardians (of the Ka'bah) and for the banner and council, i.e. no-one could enter the House without their permission, and whenever Quraysh fastened on the banner of war, the Banu 'Abd nd-Dar bound it for them, and whenever they assembled together for a matter, either to confirm or annul it, their assembly could not be anywhere but in the House of Council, nor decided upon except there, and it belonged to Bani 'Abd ad-Dar.’
- Tarikh al-Khulafah, Volume 1

So according to the history books, Abu Bakr (RA) had an extremely high position in the Quraysh and was held in very high regard. But he gave this all up to join the Prophet (SAW) and become one of the first Muslims. But we're to belief this man was a Munafiq?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:33:20 PM by Ibn Yahya »

Optimus Prime

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2015, 10:24:17 PM »
Welcome to the forum brother.

Jazak'Allah for sharing your story.

I believe the first narration with Abu Bakr (RA) listing his regrets is weak.

Al Dukhan

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015, 10:50:20 PM »
MashaAllah !

Bolani Muslim

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 10:56:41 PM »
Similar thing happened to me in Sunday School. We were taught about how Hazrat Omar (ra) saw the Persian slaves close their hands for respect and after that he decided that Muslims should hold hands in prayer as a sign of respect to God. This got me thinking in two ways: First if this guy is so evil, then how come he even cares about praying? Second, even if we take the Shia interpretation, then that means that even though he made a mistake, it was with a with the intention to respect to Allah (swt).

Farid

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2015, 12:17:16 AM »
Wow Ibn Yahya, that is so true. They will take the biggest merit for Abu Bakr and give it a twisted interpretation.

One example that comes to mind is that the Prophet peace be upon him migrated with Abu Bakr alone.

Allahu akbar! How is this not a merit?

The Shias then explain that Abu Bakr was so dangerous that the Prophet peace be upon him migrated with him to keep an eye on him.

Then, we have the marriage to A'isha. They argue that this was politically motivated.... Subhanallah.

They reject all the clear signs in order to interpret narrations of Abu Bakr as evil.

Congratulations on your conversion/reversion to Sunnism. =)

Trust me, you will feel closer to Allah like never before.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 12:19:06 AM by Farid »

Hani

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015, 09:47:27 AM »
Salam,

May Allah bless you, I'm actually interested in knowing how your family/society has received this news, also what was it like for you when you were Shia, what ideas did you have towards the rest of the Muslims??
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +19/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 03:10:23 PM »
Allah Akbar!

قُل لِّلَّـهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ ۚ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاءُ إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ
Say, "To Allah belongs the east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a straight path." (2:142)

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Bolani Muslim

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 01:44:20 AM »
Background: Another story I'd like to add. In the time of Jahiliyyah, the people didn't know manners and used to talk loud, so it came in the Quran that these Sahaba with Iman should lower their voices in front of the Prophet (saw).

So anyhow, my family's obsessed with Allayari (the Hazara shia-kafir) and one day my dad heard the story Allayari mentioned from our books saying that after the incident of those ayahs being revealed, Ameerul Mumineen Imam Omar (as) used to talk so low that the Prophet (saw) would ask him to raise his voice. My dad and I laughed hysterically (cuz I wasn't Musilm yet), but now that I think about it, it makes absolute sense that Hazrat Omar (ra) with his amazing character would talk so low.

Here's the video that reminded me of the incident:

Optimus Prime

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 05:18:04 PM »
Can, someone confirm if the following narration is authentic?

"Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a shelter."

Sunni books references:
- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116
- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

Hani

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 08:18:51 PM »
History of Ya`qoubi is not a Sunni source. Baladhuri's entire book is unreliable.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

muslim720

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 03:35:22 AM »
Background: Another story I'd like to add. In the time of Jahiliyyah, the people didn't know manners and used to talk loud, so it came in the Quran that these Sahaba with Iman should lower their voices in front of the Prophet (saw).

So anyhow, my family's obsessed with Allayari (the Hazara shia-kafir) and one day my dad heard the story Allayari mentioned from our books saying that after the incident of those ayahs being revealed, Ameerul Mumineen Imam Omar (as) used to talk so low that the Prophet (saw) would ask him to raise his voice. My dad and I laughed hysterically (cuz I wasn't Musilm yet), but now that I think about it, it makes absolute sense that Hazrat Omar (ra) with his amazing character would talk so low.

Here's the video that reminded me of the incident:


Salaam alaykum,
Love that video for Shaytanyari looks invincible on his own show but when he is not in control of the phone lines, he looks weaker than a layman.  Truth be told, I know quite a few pious Shias all of whom hate him with a passion.

PS - I take it that you are Afghan :)
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Al Dukhan

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 08:49:25 PM »
Marhaba ! Bro muslim720

muslim720

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 10:26:17 PM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah brother Al Dahkun.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Al Dukhan

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2015, 01:12:29 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah brother Al Dahkun.

wa'alaikum assalaam wa'rahmatullahi wa'barakatuh ! Brother

Ebn Hussein

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2015, 04:08:09 AM »
I mean every time the Shi'ah cite a source against him it didn't seem to paint him as evil. In fact some of them even paint Abu Bakr in a good light. Here I will quote a post from shiachat that does just that.

I'm an Ex-Rafidi too brother, I had the very same experience, Subhanallah Al-Hakim! May the peace of Allah be upon our master Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah and on you, brother Ibn Yahya.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 04:12:12 AM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Ibn Yahya

Re: From hating Abu Bakr to loving Abu Bakr
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2015, 11:13:47 AM »
I mean every time the Shi'ah cite a source against him it didn't seem to paint him as evil. In fact some of them even paint Abu Bakr in a good light. Here I will quote a post from shiachat that does just that.

I'm an Ex-Rafidi too brother, I had the very same experience, Subhanallah Al-Hakim! May the peace of Allah be upon our master Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah and on you, brother Ibn Yahya.

And on all our Imams of Guidance from the Muhajireen and the Ansar and on you akhi

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
19 Replies
4361 Views
Last post February 21, 2015, 12:33:35 PM
by Muhammad Habib
10 Replies
2755 Views
Last post February 05, 2015, 10:11:18 PM
by Hani
1 Replies
1341 Views
Last post September 04, 2015, 09:19:56 PM
by Hani
1 Replies
1988 Views
Last post October 14, 2015, 09:51:34 AM
by Aba AbdAllah