TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Ex-Shias => Topic started by: hassan-h97 on October 19, 2017, 11:05:09 PM
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Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
Admin note: Thread title improved.
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Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
Mashallah. Thank you for sharing. May Allah keep you steadfast upon the truth.
Those that were born as Sunnis have no idea how easy they have it. Thank you for the reminder.
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I have told this to Atheists before in paraphrased way:
The only way to justify Atheism, would be, to say they have either proven that clear reasoning doesn't affirm God nor are we connected to him. As for the latter, in reality, they would have to prove God doesn't exist to do that since if God exists, it's irrational to think we are not connected to him. And reasoning that is clear and manifest, doesn't mean it has to be what Academia thinks is the best arguments for God. It can be as simple as we require a perfect vision and witness and judge to be defined as human beings. And that can be sufficient proof (and in fact is, one that Quran repeats).
The problem with taking a stance that others haven't provided enough proofs, which is a stance of denial of evidence, is that it takes constant research and reinvestigation - and one can never be certain they haven't digested the arguments well enough nor can they be certain of there not being arguments out there that do prove what they are saying they have no reason.
Now if they sincerely seek the truth and don't find it, and do their best, than yes, they are justified. But all three are questionable. Are they seeking the truth (what proof do they have?), did they not find it (again, perhaps they did but are ignoring the proofs of that truth), and did their best (what proof, are they constantly looking, are they seeking, and they reinvestigating, making notes, brainstorming etc).
So to relate it with Sunni-Shia issue, I think the stance of lack of evidence of something is not a stance God would want any human to take.
Because really - the Quran which is a guidance to all things needed by humanity - what limit can we put on it in the first place?
Second going down this - it could been more clearer route, is dangerous. What is clear enough should be sufficient because God always sent signs after one another, on bigger than the other, but people didn't believe, they kept raising the bar.
They made a demand "If you show this and that, we will know you are a Messenger", but when shown, kept raising the bar.
They may really rightfully ask why doesn't God just decisively prove it, and that is true, God can, but there is a trial in all this, and there is the reality of faith and disbelief....and honesty and deceiving oneself, and seeing by love of God and seeing by desires towards the false world.
If Quran was repeating "There are no divinely chosen leaders after Mohammad" or something like that, and Sunnis had clear decisive proof for their case, than they would not be hypocritical by demanding proofs whence they themselves have none.
But the truth is Quran has everything pertaining to guidance and there is wisdom in the structure of it, Surah to Surah, verse to verse, theme interlinking with other themes, and verses connecting themes to one another.
The Quran proves Ali and the Leaders appointed by God for guidance to me, without a shadow of a doubt.
Relying on doubt and skepticisim as opposed to clear proofs from God has never been the way to God in the past so as to be the way now.
Sunnism is taking a skeptic stance towards Ghadeer declaration, thaqalain hadith, hadithal Kisaa etc, but at the end, it has no proofs of it's own from God.
It denies proofs that contradict it, I understand that, but it has none for itself. And the path of God always has proofs upon proofs and so much reasoning to confirm it, that all it requires is reflection. The latter statement is found in Quran and itself is enough to prove the path and in fact, is one of the arguments of Quran for the proper religion, that at least Islam hypothetically has evidence, people may say Quran doesn't prove Mohammad but no other religion has evidence that is to be analyzed, they are saying walk the path and you will see, but Quran is saying, the path before you walk it, make sure it has ample evidence and proofs.
And the Quran provides proofs upon proofs, majestic eloquent themes interlocking with others, and in all this, proves the proper religion through reasoning.
The argument of Quran doesn't come down to he sent Messengers in the past therefore believe in Mohammad, as any human can say the same thing. It has structural argument and reasoning and philosophy, and there is no wasted space in Quran, all verses are important.
The philosophy of chosen families, the number emphasized by Moses covenant, the rejection of clergy class and the Jibt and Taghut, the tautologies of Quran, etc, etc, they are all vitally important.
All I suggest before going into all out rebellion to the family of the reminder, is to reflect on Quran and ahadith of Ahlulbayt (as) regarding Quranic verses.
You should at least give Ahlulbayt (as) a chance to prove themselves in Quran by reading their ahadith and giving them reflection.
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Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
W/S bro.
Welcome to the religion if light and Haq. Undoubtedly, Shiaism is the religion of falsehood.
May Allah (SWT) keep you steadfast on deen.
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Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
Walaikum asalam
Alhamdulillah
Welcome brother to the light/nur of Islam true Islam where you feel at ease within and a true bond with brotherhood and a true ummati of the prophet saw without hate for anything of the prophet saw's friends and wives ra. Free from such depraved thoughts. Welcome to peace.
may Allah swt make the rest of your journey in learning and to spread true dawah easy for you and may He Allah swt help in reverting your parents to the truth.
Welcome to the truth brother.
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Walaikum salam wr wb
Welcome to the forum brother Hassan.
Praise be to Allah. You have chosen the path of truth.
May Allah guide your parents, grant you strenght & patience and success in your journey.
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... And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
Brother Mohammed Hijab has recently uploaded a video on his channel. It is regarding Dr. Zakir Naik's claim of scientific miracles in the Holy Quran. Very informative video.
Reacting to Dr. Zakir Naik's Scientific Miracles #1
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Salam,
God grant you success!
My personal choice, I stay away from "scientific miracles" but whatever works for you bro!
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wa alaykumsalam warahmatullah wabarakatuh bro, happy you find Islam. I agree with Hani, don't get to much into the scientific miracles genre. It feels like we try too hard to find or interpret an ayat to match a new scientific findings. What if today's scientific findings which supposedly match an ayat was later found to be wrong? al-Qur'an is already a miracle even if we cant find an ayat in it which explains modern science.
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wa alaykumsalam warahmatullah wabarakatuh bro, happy you find Islam. I agree with Hani, don't get to much into the scientific miracles genre. It feels like we try too hard to find or interpret an ayat to match a new scientific findings. What if today's scientific findings which supposedly match an ayat was later found to be wrong? al-Qur'an is already a miracle even if we cant find an ayat in it which explains modern science.
Yes I totally agree. I only used it at the beginning of my research, that’s the reason in which I mentioned that I looked into other miracles of the Quran apart from science. I am follower of Hamza And brother Mohammed Hijab, and as well as other brothers who have talked about this issue. I am fully aware that the Quran should not be used as a yard stick for the scientific world, but rather it should be a very small part of dawah but not a great deal. It’s important to focus on the other aspects of the Quran, like linguistic, historic, prophetic miracles of Quran .
Just as a side note , have a look at the mathematical miracle of the Quran that has came about recently in a study done by Shabir Ally.
السلام عليكم
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Yes I totally agree. I only used it at the beginning of my research, that’s the reason in which I mentioned that I looked into other miracles of the Quran apart from science. I am follower of Hamza And brother Mohammed Hijab, and as well as other brothers who have talked about this issue. I am fully aware that the Quran should not be used as a yard stick for the scientific world, but rather it should be a very small part of dawah but not a great deal. It’s important to focus on the other aspects of the Quran, like linguistic, historic, prophetic miracles of Quran .
Just as a side note , have a look at the mathematical miracle of the Quran that has came about recently in a study done by Shabir Ally.
My advice would be to stay out of all such miracles not known to Saḥābah, Tabi‘un nor Tabi‘ al-Tabi‘in. Below I am giving a link related to the topic.
Discussion of numerical miracles in the Qur’aan and use of the solar calendar
https://islamqa.info/en/69741
Shaykh Dr. Khaalid al-Sabt said:
Dr. Ashraf ‘Abd al-Razzaaq Qatanah presented a “study of the numerical miracles in the Holy Qur’aan” which he published in a book entitled: “The Qur’aan and the Numerical Miracles, a critical study of the numerical miracles of the Holy Qur’aan.” In the conclusion to this book he reviews three other books: (1) I’jaaz al-Raqm 19 (The miracle of the number 19) by Baasim Jaraar; (2) al-I’jaaz al-‘Adadi fi’l-Qur’aan (the numerical miracle in the Qur’aan) by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq Nawfal; and (3) al-Mu’jizah (the miracle) by ‘Adnaan al-Rifaa’i. The author reached a conclusion which he describes as follows:
As the result of my study I reached the idea that the “numerical miracle” as presented in these books is not real at all, and these books are based on conditions that are sometimes selective , in order to prove the validity of this view in a way that will make the reader accept these preconceived results referred to above. These selective conditions sometimes lead the author to go against that which is proven according to the consensus of the ummah, such as going against the spelling of the ‘Uthmaani Mus-haf, which is not permissible at all; or adopting the spelling of some words which appears in some Mus-hafs and without paying attention to the spellings in other Mus-hafs. It also goes against basic principles of the Arabic language with regard to synonyms and antonyms.
p. 197, Damascus, Manaar li’l-Nashr wa’l-Tawzee’, first edition, 1420 AH/1999 CE.
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My advice would be to stay out of all such miracles not known to Saḥābah, Tabi‘un nor Tabi‘ al-Tabi‘in. Below I am giving a link related to the topic.
You forgot the "infallible" Imams :)
Anyways, your comment is a funny one brother. How can the Sahaba or the next generation after them know about scientific and mathematical signs during their time when humanity was not advanced in science especially their society in Hijaz?
P.S. The brother talked about the study done by Shaikh Shabir Ally. If you think there is something wrong with his research do point out.
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Alaykum Asalam. Nice to hear your story. very interesting and what ever you're comfortable and happy with. I have read some posts in response to yours and I just wish that the same would have been said if it was the other way around.
It is your religious and civil right to believe in what ever you want and feel like. What ever you're comfortable and happy with and what ever you think is right and reasonable for you.
This is how Shiaism and the majority of the Shia feel and believe not just about themselves but also about and for the others. It is unfortunate that we are not thought of and felt in the same way.
I am a Shia born, raised and bread as a Shia. My experience is as similar as yours to some extent. I wasn't happy and comfortable with certain ways and things just as you. So what exactly did I do?
I went in to research and started to look at things as well as other schools of thought in depth and in great detail. I also started to look at historical incidents and events along with political issues and matters concerning Islam and Islamic history.
And this is exactly what I'm doing till this very day. I was a Shia and still am a Shia. I used to commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein and his companions in this particular way, fashion and manner but now I do it in that...... So commemorating the incident of Karbalaa in a particular way, fashion and manner has to do with the area and region the Shias are from and is cultural as well as traditional. But before my research I thought it was part of the Shia belief and faith.
Will continue this.
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You forgot the "infallible" Imams :)
I did not forget the "infallible" Imams :)
As the brother is now Sunni (and ex-Shia) I listed those important people according to Ahlul Sunnah from whom the Knowledge of al-Quran and Sunnah of Prophet (s.a.w.w) is to be taken.
Anyways, your comment is a funny one brother. How can the Sahaba or the next generation after them know about scientific and mathematical signs during their time when humanity was not advanced in science especially their society in Hijaz?
So you think Science and Mathematics are authority and that Al-Quran should be interpreted according to scientific and mathematical signs?
P.S. The brother talked about the study done by Shaikh Shabir Ally. If you think there is something wrong with his research do point out.
I did not believe in al-Quran as Book from GOD because of such study.
Nor did Sahabas bring Imaan on Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and al-Quran based on such scientific and mathematical signs. If such was the case then we did find evidence of this in books of Seerah, Tarikh and Ahadith.
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Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
Admin note: Thread title improved.
You've said four things here;
Hitting themselves with hands on their chests or with chains on their upper back.
Saying phrases such as, 'Ya Ali Madad, Ya Hussein, Ya Zahra etc.
Having objects around the house to protect themselves from the devil.
And swearing and cursing the companions etc.
Is this Shiaism according to you? Or have you limited Shiaism to this?
-
So you think Science and Mathematics are authority and that Al-Quran should be interpreted according to scientific and mathematical signs?
I did not believe in al-Quran as Book from GOD because of such study.
Nor did Sahabas bring Imaan on Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and al-Quran based on such scientific and mathematical signs. If such was the case then we did find evidence of this in books of Seerah, Tarikh and Ahadith.
I and nobody else here made such a claim.
-
So you think Science and Mathematics are authority and that Al-Quran should be interpreted according to scientific and mathematical signs?
I did not believe in al-Quran as Book from GOD because of such study.
Nor did Sahabas bring Imaan on Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and al-Quran based on such scientific and mathematical signs. If such was the case then we did find evidence of this in books of Seerah, Tarikh and Ahadith.
I and nobody else here made such a claim.
Good.
I believe no one should interpret al-Quran according to his desires i.e. to claim he found scientific and mathematical miracles in the verses of al-Quran but al-Quran should be interpreted as Prophet (s.a.w.w) interpreted. And Ahlul Sunnah believe that Prophet (s.a.w.w) taught the interpretation of al-Quran to his Sahabas.
So its better (according to Ahlul Sunnah) to interpret verses of al-Quran as given by Prophet (s.a.w.w) through his Sahabas and avoid interpreting verses of al-Quran according to Science & Mathematics.
-
Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
Admin note: Thread title improved.
You've said four things here;
Hitting themselves with hands on their chests or with chains on their upper back.
Saying phrases such as, 'Ya Ali Madad, Ya Hussein, Ya Zahra etc.
Having objects around the house to protect themselves from the devil.
And swearing and cursing the companions etc.
Is this Shiaism according to you? Or have you limited Shiaism to this?
I don't think you exactly know what Shiaism is about and what the principles of its faith/belief are.
Hitting yourself either with your hands on your chest till it turns red and blue or hitting your upper back with either chains or small knives attached to chains in some places, who said that you have to or must do this? I don't do it so does that throw me out of Shiaism or am I no longer a shia? Who said you have to do this otherwise you're not a Shia?
Some people who happen to be from the Shia community commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein in this particular way. In Iran they use chains and hit their upper back. In Pakistan you have small knives attached to the end of chains and they hit the upper back with that. In other countries or parts of the world where Shias exist and live such as Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon etc you probably would have a different practice based on tradition or custom.
But what does this have to do with the Shia belief and faith or the entire Shia community globally? What seems to be the problem with saying Ya Ali Madad or Ya Hussein or Ya Abbas or Ya Zahra? Don't say it if you don't want to or if you're not comfortable with it. But what seems to be the issue with it if you can let me know that would be nice.
What kind of objects did your parents keep in the house to keep demons, devils or probably bad spirits away if you don't mind me asking?
And now you've become a Suni, which one have you become and why? Do you know about being a Suni? Do you know they have four different school of thought? Apart from this they are categorised or divided such as Deobandi, Barelvi, Wahabi, Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc. It's getting a bit too long and much for you so I'll leave it here.
-
So you think Science and Mathematics are authority and that Al-Quran should be interpreted according to scientific and mathematical signs?
I did not believe in al-Quran as Book from GOD because of such study.
Nor did Sahabas bring Imaan on Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and al-Quran based on such scientific and mathematical signs. If such was the case then we did find evidence of this in books of Seerah, Tarikh and Ahadith.
I and nobody else here made such a claim.
Good.
I believe no one should interpret al-Quran according to his desires i.e. to claim he found scientific and mathematical miracles in the verses of al-Quran but al-Quran should be interpreted as Prophet (s.a.w.w) interpreted. And Ahlul Sunnah believe that Prophet (s.a.w.w) taught the interpretation of al-Quran to his Sahabas.
So its better (according to Ahlul Sunnah) to interpret verses of al-Quran as given by Prophet (s.a.w.w) through his Sahabas and avoid interpreting verses of al-Quran according to Science & Mathematics.
And instead of the Sahaba we choose and prefer the Ahle Bayth. That's the only difference and that is probably our crime. You have your choice and reasons to that choice and we the same. You have a right to your belief and choice and we should be given and seen the same. That is all and it shouldn't be too difficult to understand.
-
So you think Science and Mathematics are authority and that Al-Quran should be interpreted according to scientific and mathematical signs?
I did not believe in al-Quran as Book from GOD because of such study.
Nor did Sahabas bring Imaan on Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and al-Quran based on such scientific and mathematical signs. If such was the case then we did find evidence of this in books of Seerah, Tarikh and Ahadith.
I and nobody else here made such a claim.
Good.
I believe no one should interpret al-Quran according to his desires i.e. to claim he found scientific and mathematical miracles in the verses of al-Quran but al-Quran should be interpreted as Prophet (s.a.w.w) interpreted. And Ahlul Sunnah believe that Prophet (s.a.w.w) taught the interpretation of al-Quran to his Sahabas.
So its better (according to Ahlul Sunnah) to interpret verses of al-Quran as given by Prophet (s.a.w.w) through his Sahabas and avoid interpreting verses of al-Quran according to Science & Mathematics.
On the point that you have mentioned, I think you are completely wrong to limit the understanding of the Quran to purely the prophet saw and his companions. Allah saw says to ponder over his verses, this is an action which is done since the time of the prophet saw to this day.
A verse could have various meaning, one may mean a hint of science for furthering your iman, and one may mean something else which the prophet may or not have mentioned.
What is your evidence to say that every single verse in the Quran must be understood in the exact same way as the prophet and the companions and NO other way these verses could be looked at?
Again to beat down my case, You should not use science as your ultimate judgement on the Quran but rather it should be a very small part of it. For example, if you compare the Bible to the Quran, like in the video mentioned by Mohamed Hijab, the Bible has clear clear contractions in terms of scientific, historical etc. facts whilst the Quran stands on the other side of the room.
To conclude, The deep pondering over the Quran, and an individuals discipline such as science, is actually increasing the iman of the individual, and for you to come around and to just claim no other understanding of the verses of the Quran can be taken, only shows you are actually ignorant. Are you aware there are surahs in the Quran e.g An Nazi'at , where literally there are 50 completely different tafsirs put forward from the greatest scholars of Islam with regards to its initial verses? Do we have hadith where the prophet saw explained the entire Quran and all of these different tafsirs? No we do not. The interpretation of the Quran was done majorly by the scholars of Islam who pondered over the verses and who understood the Arabic language to a great extent.
-
Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
Admin note: Thread title improved.
You've said four things here;
Hitting themselves with hands on their chests or with chains on their upper back.
Saying phrases such as, 'Ya Ali Madad, Ya Hussein, Ya Zahra etc.
Having objects around the house to protect themselves from the devil.
And swearing and cursing the companions etc.
Is this Shiaism according to you? Or have you limited Shiaism to this?
I don't think you exactly know what Shiaism is about and what the principles of its faith/belief are.
Hitting yourself either with your hands on your chest till it turns red and blue or hitting your upper back with either chains or small knives attached to chains in some places, who said that you have to or must do this? I don't do it so does that throw me out of Shiaism or am I no longer a shia? Who said you have to do this otherwise you're not a Shia?
Some people who happen to be from the Shia community commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein in this particular way. In Iran they use chains and hit their upper back. In Pakistan you have small knives attached to the end of chains and they hit the upper back with that. In other countries or parts of the world where Shias exist and live such as Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon etc you probably would have a different practice based on tradition or custom.
But what does this have to do with the Shia belief and faith or the entire Shia community globally? What seems to be the problem with saying Ya Ali Madad or Ya Hussein or Ya Abbas or Ya Zahra? Don't say it if you don't want to or if you're not comfortable with it. But what seems to be the issue with it if you can let me know that would be nice.
What kind of objects did your parents keep in the house to keep demons, devils or probably bad spirits away if you don't mind me asking?
And now you've become a Suni, which one have you become and why? Do you know about being a Suni? Do you know they have four different school of thought? Apart from this they are categorised or divided such as Deobandi, Barelvi, Wahabi, Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc. It's getting a bit too long and much for you so I'll leave it here.
To answer your question, a deviant sect also carries with it it's disease. You see the ahl sunnah, put much emphasis on tawheed, and the main pillars of islam. They drilled it in our heads, in the same way they do it to yours. However, as a kid in Iran, seeing the entire nation and not "some people" as you tried to sugar code it, hit them selves with chains, says a great deal about their faith and religion. There are shia scholars who try to argue and they command you to do such actions! ofcourse they are who say otherwise, but point being, a deviant sect contains it's diseases and this is an example of such disease.
Secondly, it is not about if "I" want to say it or if "I" want to do a particular action. The shia community and scholars should prohibit such disgusting actions! . How can you call upon someone else when Allah created you and HE gave you life? Look at the filth that is contained in this religion.
The fact that the scholars of shiams don't do much in these matters as they have iktilaf or differences between each other just shows how far away they are from the truth.
Thirdly, its evil eye home amulet, ornament nazar that they put around the homes to protect against evil and the devil.
Finally, yes I am fully aware of the different madhibs within Sunni Islam. Just to be clear, I have looked into shia Islam and also did my research on it, I think this point wasn't mentioned before so it's not as if I just left it without any research. I found that most of the arguments that shias bring forth are based on mutashabehat evidences, and the hadith they bring forward has always been distorted and taken out of context. I have seen shia sheikhs quote from hadith Bukhari or Muslim only the parts that suit them and I had studied those hadiths which wallahi made me absolutely hate shiams more as its just falsehood upon falsehood. 10/10 the hadiths they mention, is part of the story of what has happened, and they have not bothered or properly have and are hiding from the public, they have not read the full story and looked at it with full details.
I ask my brothers in shias, why believe in shiasm? Is it to please your parents and to be part of your culture and family? What good is it if will not save you from punishment of Allah? The Quran is crystal clear on every important matter. Dont associate partners with Allah by calling upon them. So why do you my brothers? Don't rely on evil castings to protect you, so why do you go with the culture and not call it for what it is, pure falsehood, as it is Allah who protects you. Why hit yourself when you know the messenger saw would never allow that. These are easy easy questions ya ikwan.
-
And now you've become a Suni, which one have you become and why? Do you know about being a Suni? Do you know they have four different school of thought? Apart from this they are categorised or divided such as Deobandi, Barelvi, Wahabi, Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc. It's getting a bit too long and much for you so I'll leave it here.
Yes please, leave it there. Being a sunni, he will have less difference than if hes still shia. The only thing that we sunni are more divided is in political issue whereas shia is more united politically. Being a small minority sect with a siege mentality, its easier to be united, just look at the jews.
The leader of the Twelver Imami Shia sect al-Tusi says in “al-`Iddah fi Usoul al-Fiqh” 1/138:
وقد ذكرت ما ورد عنهم عليهم السلام في الأحاديث المختلفة التي تخص الفقه في كتابي المعروف بالاستبصار وفي كتاب تهذيب الأحكام ما يزيد على خمسة آلاف حديث. وذكرت في أكثرها اختلاف الطائفة في العمل بها. وذلك أشهر من أن يخفى، حتى إنك لو تأملت اختلافاتهم في هذه الأحكام وجدته يزيد على اختلاف أبي حنيفة والشافعي ومالك
[I (al-Tusi) have mentioned their narrations (as) in different Ahadith regarding Fiqh in my book “al-Istibsar” and “Tahdheeb al-Ahkam” and they number around five thousand(narrations). I have mentioned that the (Twelver) sect differed in following most of them. That is too popular and cannot be hidden. In fact, if you observe their difference in the rulings you would find that they differ more than the difference between Abu Hanifa, Malik and al-Shafi`i.]
http://www.twelvershia.net/2013/06/28/the-sunnah-are-divided-and-the-shia-are-united/
-
Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
Admin note: Thread title improved.
You've said four things here;
Hitting themselves with hands on their chests or with chains on their upper back.
Saying phrases such as, 'Ya Ali Madad, Ya Hussein, Ya Zahra etc.
Having objects around the house to protect themselves from the devil.
And swearing and cursing the companions etc.
Is this Shiaism according to you? Or have you limited Shiaism to this?
I don't think you exactly know what Shiaism is about and what the principles of its faith/belief are.
Hitting yourself either with your hands on your chest till it turns red and blue or hitting your upper back with either chains or small knives attached to chains in some places, who said that you have to or must do this? I don't do it so does that throw me out of Shiaism or am I no longer a shia? Who said you have to do this otherwise you're not a Shia?
Some people who happen to be from the Shia community commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein in this particular way. In Iran they use chains and hit their upper back. In Pakistan you have small knives attached to the end of chains and they hit the upper back with that. In other countries or parts of the world where Shias exist and live such as Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon etc you probably would have a different practice based on tradition or custom.
But what does this have to do with the Shia belief and faith or the entire Shia community globally? What seems to be the problem with saying Ya Ali Madad or Ya Hussein or Ya Abbas or Ya Zahra? Don't say it if you don't want to or if you're not comfortable with it. But what seems to be the issue with it if you can let me know that would be nice.
What kind of objects did your parents keep in the house to keep demons, devils or probably bad spirits away if you don't mind me asking?
And now you've become a Suni, which one have you become and why? Do you know about being a Suni? Do you know they have four different school of thought? Apart from this they are categorised or divided such as Deobandi, Barelvi, Wahabi, Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc. It's getting a bit too long and much for you so I'll leave it here.
To answer your question, a deviant sect also carries with it it's disease. You see the ahl sunnah, put much emphasis on tawheed, and the main pillars of islam. They drilled it in our heads, in the same way they do it to yours. However, as a kid in Iran, seeing the entire nation and not "some people" as you tried to sugar code it, hit them selves with chains, says a great deal about their faith and religion. There are shia scholars who try to argue and they command you to do such actions! ofcourse they are who say otherwise, but point being, a deviant sect contains it's diseases and this is an example of such disease.
Secondly, it is not about if "I" want to say it or if "I" want to do a particular action. The shia community and scholars should prohibit such disgusting actions! . How can you call upon someone else when Allah created you and HE gave you life? Look at the filth that is contained in this religion.
The fact that the scholars of shiams don't do much in these matters as they have iktilaf or differences between each other just shows how far away they are from the truth.
Thirdly, its evil eye home amulet, ornament nazar that they put around the homes to protect against evil and the devil.
Finally, yes I am fully aware of the different madhibs within Sunni Islam. Just to be clear, I have looked into shia Islam and also did my research on it, I think this point wasn't mentioned before so it's not as if I just left it without any research. I found that most of the arguments that shias bring forth are based on mutashabehat evidences, and the hadith they bring forward has always been distorted and taken out of context. I have seen shia sheikhs quote from hadith Bukhari or Muslim only the parts that suit them and I had studied those hadiths which wallahi made me absolutely hate shiams more as its just falsehood upon falsehood. 10/10 the hadiths they mention, is part of the story of what has happened, and they have not bothered or properly have and are hiding from the public, they have not read the full story and looked at it with full details.
I ask my brothers in shias, why believe in shiasm? Is it to please your parents and to be part of your culture and family? What good is it if will not save you from punishment of Allah? The Quran is crystal clear on every important matter. Dont associate partners with Allah by calling upon them. So why do you my brothers? Don't rely on evil castings to protect you, so why do you go with the culture and not call it for what it is, pure falsehood, as it is Allah who protects you. Why hit yourself when you know the messenger saw would never allow that. These are easy easy questions ya ikwan.
Reading your first post made me interested in your story but I had my doubts along with it. Reading this post proves my doubts to be true. I see and sense your true colour in this post. My my the grievance and hatred the bitterness and envy is finally starting to pour out. If you were a Shia and then finally decided to switch to another sect with in Islam and found confront and piece then you would be and comfort and piece. But the grievance and hatred and bitterness and envy tells me clearly that you were what you are now to begin with. And that is an Anti Shia extremist. Well done. You couldn't hide your true face for long.
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I think Ameen is here.
;)
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Reading your first post made me interested in your story but I had my doubts along with it. Reading this post proves my doubts to be true. I see and sense your true colour in this post. My my the grievance and hatred the bitterness and envy is finally starting to pour out. If you were a Shia and then finally decided to switch to another sect with in Islam and found confront and piece then you would be and comfort and piece. But the grievance and hatred and bitterness and envy tells me clearly that you were what you are now to begin with. And that is an Anti Shia extremist. Well done. You couldn't hide your true face for long.
Hahaha... I love this guy. He used all the vocabulary that perfectly described his own sect.
1. grievance (noun)
"a real or imagined wrong or other cause for complaint or protest, especially unfair treatment."
2. hatred (noun)
"intense dislike or ill will."
3. bitterness (noun)
"anger and disappointment at (perceived) being treated unfairly; resentment"
4. envy (noun)
"a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck."
Yup, those words perfectly described Twelverism.
Don't act like an angel. You alone do not represent Twelverism. Open up your own books. Anybody can easily "feel" those four words you used up there when reading them especially when they touch about certain people highly respected by "others".
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I think Ameen is here.
;)
..... but minus multiple question marks? ;)
-
my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
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I think Ameen is here.
;)
Sorry who?
-
Reading your first post made me interested in your story but I had my doubts along with it. Reading this post proves my doubts to be true. I see and sense your true colour in this post. My my the grievance and hatred the bitterness and envy is finally starting to pour out. If you were a Shia and then finally decided to switch to another sect with in Islam and found confront and piece then you would be and comfort and piece. But the grievance and hatred and bitterness and envy tells me clearly that you were what you are now to begin with. And that is an Anti Shia extremist. Well done. You couldn't hide your true face for long.
Hahaha... I love this guy. He used all the vocabulary that perfectly described his own sect.
1. grievance (noun)
"a real or imagined wrong or other cause for complaint or protest, especially unfair treatment."
2. hatred (noun)
"intense dislike or ill will."
3. bitterness (noun)
"anger and disappointment at (perceived) being treated unfairly; resentment"
4. envy (noun)
"a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck."
Yup, those words perfectly described Twelverism.
Don't act like an angel. You alone do not represent Twelverism. Open up your own books. Anybody can easily "feel" those four words you used up there when reading them especially when they touch about certain people highly respected by "others".
Well if the man's found peace then what's with the ugliness. If you've found peace and comfort then what's with the bitterness and hate. I smell a rat. If he truly is genuine then why can't or won't he discuss about what he knows and his experience.
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my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
You are an ex-sunni and you said Abu Huraira, etc. worshipped by Sunnis? LOL! No Sunnis will ever do that unless they are so ignorant. Yup, ignorant Ex-Sunni. In fact, you sound more like Twelver in taqiyyah rather than ex-Sunni... 😜
Reading from what you've written, you certainly have a lot to catch up, mate. Why don't you start slowly reading articles from Twelvershia.net.
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im not doing taqiyyah i was hanafi before i found out that real Islam is the school and thought of Ahlulbayt AS
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im not doing taqiyyah i was hanafi before i found out that real Islam is the school and thought of Ahlulbayt AS
And you don't sound like a Sunni, let alone a Hanafi... ;)
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who are you to decide if im sunni or something else im ex sunni and im proud of that
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Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.
Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.
I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.
Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.
Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak. "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.
I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....
I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.
However, this did not go well.
I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.
Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.
If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.
Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.
Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
Admin note: Thread title improved.
You've said four things here;
Hitting themselves with hands on their chests or with chains on their upper back.
Saying phrases such as, 'Ya Ali Madad, Ya Hussein, Ya Zahra etc.
Having objects around the house to protect themselves from the devil.
And swearing and cursing the companions etc.
Is this Shiaism according to you? Or have you limited Shiaism to this?
I don't think you exactly know what Shiaism is about and what the principles of its faith/belief are.
Hitting yourself either with your hands on your chest till it turns red and blue or hitting your upper back with either chains or small knives attached to chains in some places, who said that you have to or must do this? I don't do it so does that throw me out of Shiaism or am I no longer a shia? Who said you have to do this otherwise you're not a Shia?
Some people who happen to be from the Shia community commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein in this particular way. In Iran they use chains and hit their upper back. In Pakistan you have small knives attached to the end of chains and they hit the upper back with that. In other countries or parts of the world where Shias exist and live such as Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon etc you probably would have a different practice based on tradition or custom.
But what does this have to do with the Shia belief and faith or the entire Shia community globally? What seems to be the problem with saying Ya Ali Madad or Ya Hussein or Ya Abbas or Ya Zahra? Don't say it if you don't want to or if you're not comfortable with it. But what seems to be the issue with it if you can let me know that would be nice.
What kind of objects did your parents keep in the house to keep demons, devils or probably bad spirits away if you don't mind me asking?
And now you've become a Suni, which one have you become and why? Do you know about being a Suni? Do you know they have four different school of thought? Apart from this they are categorised or divided such as Deobandi, Barelvi, Wahabi, Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc. It's getting a bit too long and much for you so I'll leave it here.
To answer your question, a deviant sect also carries with it it's disease. You see the ahl sunnah, put much emphasis on tawheed, and the main pillars of islam. They drilled it in our heads, in the same way they do it to yours. However, as a kid in Iran, seeing the entire nation and not "some people" as you tried to sugar code it, hit them selves with chains, says a great deal about their faith and religion. There are shia scholars who try to argue and they command you to do such actions! ofcourse they are who say otherwise, but point being, a deviant sect contains it's diseases and this is an example of such disease.
Secondly, it is not about if "I" want to say it or if "I" want to do a particular action. The shia community and scholars should prohibit such disgusting actions! . How can you call upon someone else when Allah created you and HE gave you life? Look at the filth that is contained in this religion.
The fact that the scholars of shiams don't do much in these matters as they have iktilaf or differences between each other just shows how far away they are from the truth.
Thirdly, its evil eye home amulet, ornament nazar that they put around the homes to protect against evil and the devil.
Finally, yes I am fully aware of the different madhibs within Sunni Islam. Just to be clear, I have looked into shia Islam and also did my research on it, I think this point wasn't mentioned before so it's not as if I just left it without any research. I found that most of the arguments that shias bring forth are based on mutashabehat evidences, and the hadith they bring forward has always been distorted and taken out of context. I have seen shia sheikhs quote from hadith Bukhari or Muslim only the parts that suit them and I had studied those hadiths which wallahi made me absolutely hate shiams more as its just falsehood upon falsehood. 10/10 the hadiths they mention, is part of the story of what has happened, and they have not bothered or properly have and are hiding from the public, they have not read the full story and looked at it with full details.
I ask my brothers in shias, why believe in shiasm? Is it to please your parents and to be part of your culture and family? What good is it if will not save you from punishment of Allah? The Quran is crystal clear on every important matter. Dont associate partners with Allah by calling upon them. So why do you my brothers? Don't rely on evil castings to protect you, so why do you go with the culture and not call it for what it is, pure falsehood, as it is Allah who protects you. Why hit yourself when you know the messenger saw would never allow that. These are easy easy questions ya ikwan.
Deviant sect and disease hey. Show some love and respect towards your parents. At least you owe them that much. You talk about the Ahle Sunah, well those who bomb and kill at random, those who spill blood without any sweat or thought, those who carry out terrorist activities to bring back the Islamic Khilafat also claim to be Ahle Sunah. What do you have to say about such deviant sects and the disease they carry and are giving Islam, the Muslims and especially the Ahle Sunah a very bad name.
Secondly you're from Iran and you were a Shia and I believe your family still is, don't you have a clue about the Fatwa of Ayatollah Khaminie. Don't you know about the joint statement from the offices of both Sistani and Khaminie.
They already have said that Shias should refrain from such sayings and actions that give Shias a bad name. They prohibit such sayings and actions. Are you really from Iran. If you were then you should be aware of this. Otherwise......
Come and discuss with me one subject/topic at a time if you are for real and that informed. And if your research is really up to date.
Have you paid any attention to what I've said. You don't have to say and do as such to be or remain as a Shia. And we do not call upon anyone else apart from Allah. We are victims of propaganda along with many other things. People can't discuss and debate so they decide to attack and strike. But it's not getting them anywhere.
This is a new gaming tactic used by the extremist that such threads ate created by people to show that Shias are turning towards Sunism. Actually their not Shias to begin with but just creating a situation due to desperation because other gaming tactics haven't worked in fact failed.
But lets see......
-
who are you to decide if im sunni or something else im ex sunni and im proud of that
Nobody worshipped Abu Hurairah or other Sahabahs in Sunni... That's why I said you don't sound like a Sunni...
Go and learn a thing of two about Ahlus Sunnah before speaking up...
-
Secondly you're from Iran and you were a Shia and I believe your family still is, don't you have a clue about the Fatwa of Ayatollah Khaminie. Don't you know about the joint statement from the offices of both Sistani and Khaminie.
They already have said that Shias should refrain from such sayings and actions that give Shias a bad name. They prohibit such sayings and actions. Are you really from Iran. If you were then you should be aware of this. Otherwise......
@Najamsethii484,
Any comment on that?
-
What seems to be the problem. If you are not comfortable with something then don't say or do it. It's just as simple as that. I left Shiaism for this or that or my journey from Shia to Suni is just bananas and strawberries. Bring me something real and genuine. This technique and tactic is getting old and boring.
-
Secondly you're from Iran and you were a Shia and I believe your family still is, don't you have a clue about the Fatwa of Ayatollah Khaminie. Don't you know about the joint statement from the offices of both Sistani and Khaminie.
They already have said that Shias should refrain from such sayings and actions that give Shias a bad name. They prohibit such sayings and actions. Are you really from Iran. If you were then you should be aware of this. Otherwise......
@Najamsethii484,
Any comment on that?
I think you should ask the story teller first.
-
On the point that you have mentioned, I think you are completely wrong to limit the understanding of the Quran to purely the prophet saw and his companions. Allah saw says to ponder over his verses, this is an action which is done since the time of the prophet saw to this day.
A verse could have various meaning, one may mean a hint of science for furthering your iman, and one may mean something else which the prophet may or not have mentioned.
What is your evidence to say that every single verse in the Quran must be understood in the exact same way as the prophet and the companions and NO other way these verses could be looked at?
Again to beat down my case, You should not use science as your ultimate judgement on the Quran but rather it should be a very small part of it. For example, if you compare the Bible to the Quran, like in the video mentioned by Mohamed Hijab, the Bible has clear clear contractions in terms of scientific, historical etc. facts whilst the Quran stands on the other side of the room.
To conclude, The deep pondering over the Quran, and an individuals discipline such as science, is actually increasing the iman of the individual, and for you to come around and to just claim no other understanding of the verses of the Quran can be taken, only shows you are actually ignorant. Are you aware there are surahs in the Quran e.g An Nazi'at , where literally there are 50 completely different tafsirs put forward from the greatest scholars of Islam with regards to its initial verses? Do we have hadith where the prophet saw explained the entire Quran and all of these different tafsirs? No we do not. The interpretation of the Quran was done majorly by the scholars of Islam who pondered over the verses and who understood the Arabic language to a great extent.
I am pasting below links which discusses the questions posed by you in great detail.
There are no secret meanings in the Qur’an that were taught to some people to the exclusion of others
https://islamqa.info/en/180621
The kind of pondering and reflection that is enjoined does not mean giving free rein to one’s intellect and thinking in understanding the verses of the book of Allah on the basis of far-fetched ideas, weird notions and claims, lies and fabrications, attributing to Allah things that He did not say on the basis that this is one of the conclusions of pondering and thinking about the revelations of Allah.
That includes the far-fetched and weird interpretations of the Sufis, the thoughts and claims of the followers of innovation, and the lies of the philosophers.
It is not right to rely on thoughts or the first thing that comes to mind; that is the wrong way of pondering the meaning of the Holy Qur’an. There are numerous reports from the early generations that warn against interpreting the Qur’an on the basis of one’s opinion.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
One of the manifestations of affirming that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah is venerating his Sunnah, calling people to it, putting it into practice, warning lest anyone go against it, and interpreting the Qur’an by the Sunnah with regard to those of its verses that may not be clear. So the Qur’an may be interpreted by the Sunnah and made clear by the Sunnah. The Sunnah explains the Qur’an, clarifies it, refers to it and discusses ideas that the Qur’an has already discussed, as Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought”
[an-Nahl 16:44].
End quote from Majmoo‘ Fataawa Ibn Baaz (1/248).
But it is essential to understand that the Sahaabah were eloquent people who spoke proper Arabic, and the Qur’an was revealed in a plain Arabic tongue, so it was not too difficult for any of the Sahaabah to grasp the meanings of many of its verses. In many cases, the meanings of many verses were grasped instinctively (because they were clear) and there was no need for any interpretation or commentary. Hence Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: There are four layers of tafseer (interpretation or commentary): that which the Arabs know from their language; interpretation for which no one has any excuse for not knowing; interpretation that is known to the scholars only; and interpretation which no one knows except Allah, may He be exalted – i.e., the ambiguous verses.
End quote from Tafseer at-Tabari (1/75)
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I have got very much reports from Sahabas and Scholars of Ahlul Sunnah regarding this topic. I am giving few below:
01. ʿAbdullāh b. Abbās
ʿAbdullāh b. Abbās (raḍiy Allāhu ʿanhu), for whom the Prophet asked Allāh to grant him the ability to interpret the Qur’ān, on occasions refused to answer questions regarding the Tafsīr of certain verses for fear of saying something incorrectly. Undoubtedly his motivation for remaining silent were the words of the Prophet (sall Allāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam) when he said, ‘whoever speaks about the Qur’ān without knowledge, then let him take his seat in the hell fire!’ (Tirmidhi 2950)
02. ‘Umar b. Al-Khattab
- `Umar said:
قَالَ عُمَرُ : أَخْوَفُ مَا أَتَخَوَّفُ عَلَى هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةِ قَوْمٌ يَتَأَوَّلُونَ الْقُرْآنَ عَلَى غَيْرِ تَأْوِيلِهِ
From what I fear for you is that this nation self-interprets the Qur’an against it proper understanding.
[Source: Translated by Adeel ibn tariq, Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 36868]
Verily, the followers of opinion (such as self interpretations based on their own reasoning) are the enemies of the Sunan (the teachings of Allâh’s Messenger as passed down in hadith): they were unable to preserve them (the sunnah by memorizing or acting upon it) and their meanings escaped them, and when asked [questions] they were too embarrassed to say ‘We don’t know,’ so they opposed the Sunan with their opinions. As a result they went astray and misguided.
[Narrated from `Amr ibn Hurayth by al-Daraqutni in his Sunan (4:146), al-Bayhaqi in al-Madkhal (p. 190), Ibn Hazm in al-Ihkam (6:213), and al-Lalika'i in Sharh Usul I`tiqad Ahl al-Sunna (1:123 or article 200). See the definition of permissible ra'i by Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari (1959 ed. 13:189) and Ibn al-Qayyim in I`lam al-Muwaqqi`in (1:83) as well as al-Kawthari's Fiqh Ahl al-`Iraq and the introduction to al-Tahanawi's I`la' al-Sunan. Ibn Abî Zamanîn, Usûl Al-Sunnah article 8]
- Umar ibn `Abdulaah al-Ashaj said: `Umar Ibn al-Khattaab (radhiallahu `anhu) said:
“(Soon) there will come (a group of) people, arguing with you regarding the Mutashaabih (unclear verses) of the Qur’aan. So debate with them using the Sunnah (of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم). For verily the As-haab al-Sunan (those who know the Sunnah of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم) are the most knowledgeable people about the Book of Allaah تعالى.”
[Ref: Narrated by al-Darimi in his Sunan, al-Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad (14:286), and al-Lalika'i in Sharh Usul I`tiqad Ahl al-Sunna (1:123 and al-Faqeeh wal-Mutafaqqih of al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee (1/559-560)]
- ‘Umar ibn Khattab (r.a) said:
“Sunnah is what is ordained by Allah (s.w.t) and His Messenger (sallalahu `alayhi wa sallam), don’t make someone’s incorrect opinion (or mistake in someone’s opinion) a Sunnah for the Ummah (to follow)
[`Ilaam al-Muwaq`een `an Rabbil `Alameen and Sharh Aqeedah at-Tahaawi - علي بن علي بن - - محمد بن أبي العز الدمشقيhttp://library.islamweb.net/NewLibrary/display_book.php?idfrom=23&idto=23&bk_no=34&ID=25 ]
03. Imam Malik ibn Anas
Imam Malik ibn Anas said:
"If I come across a man who interprets the Book of Allaah while he is not a scholar in the Arabic tongue, then I will make an example of him for others (i.e., rebuke him harshly)."
[Ref: Abu Isma`eel al-Harawi his book ذم الكلام وأهله - Shamela 5/92 or 882. Translation by Shaykh Muhammad Munnajid]
04. Imaam Ibn Jareer al-Tabaree
Imaam Ibn Jareer al-Tabaree said:
"And among the interpreters there was one who was not acquainted with the statements of the Salaf – who would interpret the Qur’aan according to his opinion based on (his understanding of) the Arabic language; directing the meaning of:
﴿وَفِيهِ يَعْصِرُونَ﴾
{and in which they will press (olives and grapes)} [Surah Yusuf (12): 49]
to mean: “and in which they will be saved from famine and drought by (abundant) rain”. He mistakenly thought that the word يعصرون is derived from the word العَصَر or العُصرة which does mean “protection”.
And this interpretation is sufficient as a proof that it is an error on his part because of it contradicting the statements of all the people of knowledge from the Sahaabah and the Taabi`een."
[Tafseer al-Tabaree (16/130)]
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And lastly the link given below discuss on Tafsīr of al-Quran.
Tafseer on the basis of narrated texts and tafseer on the basis of individual understanding
https://islamqa.info/en/205290
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so fake stories no Shia Muslim will leave Islam and go to kufr
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I think Ameen is here.
;)
Bro I swear that was my first thought when I chatted with the guy, it's how he questions that gave it away😂😂😂😂
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I think Ameen is here.
;)
Bro I swear that was my first thought when I chatted with the guy, it's how he questions that gave it away😂😂😂😂
Who is this ameen character you speak about or is this a new technique to avoid answering? What have you got cooking up i wonder.
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my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
Wow what frustration up there lol......did any sunni beat you up or something?? Either that or your just full of it.
1) worship? Don't even go there, that alone shows your Shiite hatred lol, look how hard you are trying without evidence or proof you just spew hate. your Shiite sects version of Islam.....giving gods attributes to humans.......atom movers! Think.
2) you say sunni is man made..."thing"...your choice of words, shows who we deal with (intellectual imami followers), so Shiism is in the Quran please do provide the ayahs of divine leadership and let's see if you REALLY was a sunni or always a Shiite.
Them ayahs must be so clear that no way is Shiism wrong or your just LYING and trying your best to twist the words just like other lame Shiites in here,we ain't no hateful people like Shiites like you, as the post above shows.
3) sunni/wahabi??? Lol that shows you really are a Shiite
4) saqifa answered by shura through Quran that is easily understandable explained through Hadith as well as understood by scholars as well as its implementation and practice in the "REAL WORLD"........still waiting for CLEAR verses on imarmite divinity leadership.......1400 years and still here, you must be going wrong somewhere or your gonna turn into a link or iceman or (ameen)? the top seeds of Shiites to enter this site, their posts are gold.
5) Terrorism, this is the best a dumb Shiite can say, honestly I mean it.
The first ever modern day suicide bombing was by HIZBULLAH go check it up on wiki go check anywhere on the web, Here are some facts for ya.....
It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare".
The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought the first suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)
Islamic dawah party - Shiites
HIZBULLAH - Shiites
Amal party - Shiites
I do honestly feel sorry for you Shiites having to rely on lies to justify your sect.
Remember it was a Shiite who was the FIRST MODERN DAY SUICIDE TERRORIST.
Was you really a sunni?? I don't think so, unless you haven't really studied the facts and are here spewing lies.
The rest of your lies don't deserve a response, you have no proof but childish remarks......just the way divine imarmites taught you.
So don't listen to liars like naknajawaani,suicide bombers were born within Shiism, it's a Shiite phenomenon, YOU STARTED IT!
-
my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
Wow what frustration up there lol......did any sunni beat you up or something?? Either that or your just full of it.
1) worship? Don't even go there, that alone shows your Shiite hatred lol, look how hard you are trying without evidence or proof you just spew hate. your Shiite sects version of Islam.....giving gods attributes to humans.......atom movers! Think.
2) you say sunni is man made..."thing"...your choice of words, shows who we deal with (intellectual imami followers), so Shiism is in the Quran please do provide the ayahs of divine leadership and let's see if you REALLY was a sunni or always a Shiite.
Them ayahs must be so clear that no way is Shiism wrong or your just LYING and trying your best to twist the words just like other lame Shiites in here,we ain't no hateful people like Shiites like you, as the post above shows.
3) sunni/wahabi??? Lol that shows you really are a Shiite
4) saqifa answered by shura through Quran that is easily understandable explained through Hadith as well as understood by scholars as well as its implementation and practice in the "REAL WORLD"........still waiting for CLEAR verses on imarmite divinity leadership.......1400 years and still here, you must be going wrong somewhere or your gonna turn into a link or iceman or (ameen)? the top seeds of Shiites to enter this site, their posts are gold.
5) Terrorism, this is the best a dumb Shiite can say, honestly I mean it.
The first ever modern day suicide bombing was by HIZBULLAH go check it up on wiki go check anywhere on the web, Here are some facts for ya.....
It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare".
The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought the first suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)
Islamic dawah party - Shiites
HIZBULLAH - Shiites
Amal party - Shiites
I do honestly feel sorry for you Shiites having to rely on lies to justify your sect.
Remember it was a Shiite who was the FIRST MODERN DAY SUICIDE TERRORIST.
Was you really a sunni?? I don't think so, unless you haven't really studied the facts and are here spewing lies.
The rest of your lies don't deserve a response, you have no proof but childish remarks......just the way divine imarmites taught you.
So don't listen to liars like naknajawaani,suicide bombers were born within Shiism, it's a Shiite phenomenon, YOU STARTED IT!
We don't need to try anything. Nor have we created this site or as such to attack and slander any other Islamic school of thought or sect.
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my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
Wow what frustration up there lol......did any sunni beat you up or something?? Either that or your just full of it.
1) worship? Don't even go there, that alone shows your Shiite hatred lol, look how hard you are trying without evidence or proof you just spew hate. your Shiite sects version of Islam.....giving gods attributes to humans.......atom movers! Think.
2) you say sunni is man made..."thing"...your choice of words, shows who we deal with (intellectual imami followers), so Shiism is in the Quran please do provide the ayahs of divine leadership and let's see if you REALLY was a sunni or always a Shiite.
Them ayahs must be so clear that no way is Shiism wrong or your just LYING and trying your best to twist the words just like other lame Shiites in here,we ain't no hateful people like Shiites like you, as the post above shows.
3) sunni/wahabi??? Lol that shows you really are a Shiite
4) saqifa answered by shura through Quran that is easily understandable explained through Hadith as well as understood by scholars as well as its implementation and practice in the "REAL WORLD"........still waiting for CLEAR verses on imarmite divinity leadership.......1400 years and still here, you must be going wrong somewhere or your gonna turn into a link or iceman or (ameen)? the top seeds of Shiites to enter this site, their posts are gold.
5) Terrorism, this is the best a dumb Shiite can say, honestly I mean it.
The first ever modern day suicide bombing was by HIZBULLAH go check it up on wiki go check anywhere on the web, Here are some facts for ya.....
It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare".
The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought the first suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)
Islamic dawah party - Shiites
HIZBULLAH - Shiites
Amal party - Shiites
I do honestly feel sorry for you Shiites having to rely on lies to justify your sect.
Remember it was a Shiite who was the FIRST MODERN DAY SUICIDE TERRORIST.
Was you really a sunni?? I don't think so, unless you haven't really studied the facts and are here spewing lies.
The rest of your lies don't deserve a response, you have no proof but childish remarks......just the way divine imarmites taught you.
So don't listen to liars like naknajawaani,suicide bombers were born within Shiism, it's a Shiite phenomenon, YOU STARTED IT!
We don't need to try anything. Nor have we created this site or as such to attack and slander any other Islamic school of thought or sect.
Get off your high horse, have you seen what the guy posted? But you will blame others quickly, your posts are full of hypocrisy just as this post is.
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my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
Wow what frustration up there lol......did any sunni beat you up or something?? Either that or your just full of it.
1) worship? Don't even go there, that alone shows your Shiite hatred lol, look how hard you are trying without evidence or proof you just spew hate. your Shiite sects version of Islam.....giving gods attributes to humans.......atom movers! Think.
2) you say sunni is man made..."thing"...your choice of words, shows who we deal with (intellectual imami followers), so Shiism is in the Quran please do provide the ayahs of divine leadership and let's see if you REALLY was a sunni or always a Shiite.
Them ayahs must be so clear that no way is Shiism wrong or your just LYING and trying your best to twist the words just like other lame Shiites in here,we ain't no hateful people like Shiites like you, as the post above shows.
3) sunni/wahabi??? Lol that shows you really are a Shiite
4) saqifa answered by shura through Quran that is easily understandable explained through Hadith as well as understood by scholars as well as its implementation and practice in the "REAL WORLD"........still waiting for CLEAR verses on imarmite divinity leadership.......1400 years and still here, you must be going wrong somewhere or your gonna turn into a link or iceman or (ameen)? the top seeds of Shiites to enter this site, their posts are gold.
5) Terrorism, this is the best a dumb Shiite can say, honestly I mean it.
The first ever modern day suicide bombing was by HIZBULLAH go check it up on wiki go check anywhere on the web, Here are some facts for ya.....
It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare".
The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought the first suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)
Islamic dawah party - Shiites
HIZBULLAH - Shiites
Amal party - Shiites
I do honestly feel sorry for you Shiites having to rely on lies to justify your sect.
Remember it was a Shiite who was the FIRST MODERN DAY SUICIDE TERRORIST.
Was you really a sunni?? I don't think so, unless you haven't really studied the facts and are here spewing lies.
The rest of your lies don't deserve a response, you have no proof but childish remarks......just the way divine imarmites taught you.
So don't listen to liars like naknajawaani,suicide bombers were born within Shiism, it's a Shiite phenomenon, YOU STARTED IT!
We don't need to try anything. Nor have we created this site or as such to attack and slander any other Islamic school of thought or sect.
Get off your high horse, have you seen what the guy posted? But you will blame others quickly, your posts are full of hypocrisy just as this post is.
If this is for me which I presume it is, I never got on a horse anyway. All you do is attack and slander or its arrogance and stubbornness. What seems to be the problem and what's worrying you? You don't like it the other way around, is that it.
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my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
Wow what frustration up there lol......did any sunni beat you up or something?? Either that or your just full of it.
1) worship? Don't even go there, that alone shows your Shiite hatred lol, look how hard you are trying without evidence or proof you just spew hate. your Shiite sects version of Islam.....giving gods attributes to humans.......atom movers! Think.
2) you say sunni is man made..."thing"...your choice of words, shows who we deal with (intellectual imami followers), so Shiism is in the Quran please do provide the ayahs of divine leadership and let's see if you REALLY was a sunni or always a Shiite.
Them ayahs must be so clear that no way is Shiism wrong or your just LYING and trying your best to twist the words just like other lame Shiites in here,we ain't no hateful people like Shiites like you, as the post above shows.
3) sunni/wahabi??? Lol that shows you really are a Shiite
4) saqifa answered by shura through Quran that is easily understandable explained through Hadith as well as understood by scholars as well as its implementation and practice in the "REAL WORLD"........still waiting for CLEAR verses on imarmite divinity leadership.......1400 years and still here, you must be going wrong somewhere or your gonna turn into a link or iceman or (ameen)? the top seeds of Shiites to enter this site, their posts are gold.
5) Terrorism, this is the best a dumb Shiite can say, honestly I mean it.
The first ever modern day suicide bombing was by HIZBULLAH go check it up on wiki go check anywhere on the web, Here are some facts for ya.....
It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare".
The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought the first suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)
Islamic dawah party - Shiites
HIZBULLAH - Shiites
Amal party - Shiites
I do honestly feel sorry for you Shiites having to rely on lies to justify your sect.
Remember it was a Shiite who was the FIRST MODERN DAY SUICIDE TERRORIST.
Was you really a sunni?? I don't think so, unless you haven't really studied the facts and are here spewing lies.
The rest of your lies don't deserve a response, you have no proof but childish remarks......just the way divine imarmites taught you.
So don't listen to liars like naknajawaani,suicide bombers were born within Shiism, it's a Shiite phenomenon, YOU STARTED IT!
You don't need to feel sorry for us since we're not worried about you but you're so obsessed about us. How do you sleep I wonder. Do you ever sleep, I mean do you ever give it a rest. It seems to me you finally decided to do some homework before yapping. I will respond on your number wise points.
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1, We worship only Allah and from only him we seek help. We are accused of associating others with Allah or seeking help apart from or other than Allah, this is a false accusation and a malicious lie.
2, Sunis, they didn't even exist during the Prophet's (s) time. Heck they weren't even around during the Khilafat period. The first ever Sunis to emerge were during Abu Hanifa's time. He created this new school of thought and this was their beginning. Before this no one knew, seen or even heard of this sect (sunis).
3, Terrorism, using violence or threatening behaviour to achieve your goals, objective or have your demands met is not and was not the way of Allah or his Messenger (s). It doesn't matter who the hell it is, it's not part of Islam or the Islamic way of life. We are not blind like you quick to criticise and condemn the other rather than accepting what is wrong.
4, Saqifa, enough has been said about this incident. It's got no legitimacy what so ever. Don't insult consultation (Shura) by linking it to Saqifa.
5, Sunis have been divided and this division went to four school of thoughts. Further more you have Barelvi, Deobandhi, Wahabi, Salafi, Ahle Hadees you name it. They all claim to be Ahle Sunah. And one despises the other. There is a lot of bitterness and envy between them.
6, Alqaidah, Talabaan, Lashkar e Teyibah, Hizbut Tehreer, Sipa e Sahaba, Lashkar e Janghvi, Hammas, Islamic Jihad etc you name it, you have many other groups operating in Somalia and many other Muslim countries all causing carnage, mayhem and havoc and they're all Suni.
I suggest you clear up your own back yard before accusing and pointing fingers.
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1, We worship only Allah and from only him we seek help. We are accused of associating others with Allah or seeking help apart from or other than Allah, this is a false accusation and a malicious lie.
False accusation and malicious lie? Hmm...
@iceman, please take some time to view the video below.
Any comment on that?
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Thanks for putting the video forward. Absolutely, I will definitely comment on it. Let me make this simple. Sunis, do all Sunis belong to the same school of thought? No, you have Hanfi, Maliki, Shafa'ee and Hanbali. Do they all belong to the same sect? No, you have Barelvi, Deobandhi, Wahabi, Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc. Do all Sunis belong to the same political movement? No. Do all Sunis share the same opinion or have the same thought? No. Would Sunis accept and believe in everything or anything that any Suni Scholar would say? No. Would Sunis accept and believe in anything and everything written in Ahle Sunah authentic books? No. If I picked a video at random and there are plenty roaming on the Internet that look what this Suni scholar is saying would you accept and believe in it? Would the person or people in that video represent all Sunis internationally/globally?
I will continue this.
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Does the video you've put forward represent Shiaism and Shias internationally/globally? No. Do all Shias share the same thought and opinion of those in the video? No. So why pick a video or a book or a view of someone or statement of some scholar and say,
"well this is what Shias believe in" or "this is what Shiaism is all about".
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PROPAGANDA
Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.
"he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"
synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, advertisement, publicity, advocacy;
Are you using the video for the above purpose or are you really not that familiar with reality and facts?
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Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented. Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies and the media can also produce propaganda.
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my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
Wow what frustration up there lol......did any sunni beat you up or something?? Either that or your just full of it.
1) worship? Don't even go there, that alone shows your Shiite hatred lol, look how hard you are trying without evidence or proof you just spew hate. your Shiite sects version of Islam.....giving gods attributes to humans.......atom movers! Think.
2) you say sunni is man made..."thing"...your choice of words, shows who we deal with (intellectual imami followers), so Shiism is in the Quran please do provide the ayahs of divine leadership and let's see if you REALLY was a sunni or always a Shiite.
Them ayahs must be so clear that no way is Shiism wrong or your just LYING and trying your best to twist the words just like other lame Shiites in here,we ain't no hateful people like Shiites like you, as the post above shows.
3) sunni/wahabi??? Lol that shows you really are a Shiite
4) saqifa answered by shura through Quran that is easily understandable explained through Hadith as well as understood by scholars as well as its implementation and practice in the "REAL WORLD"........still waiting for CLEAR verses on imarmite divinity leadership.......1400 years and still here, you must be going wrong somewhere or your gonna turn into a link or iceman or (ameen)? the top seeds of Shiites to enter this site, their posts are gold.
5) Terrorism, this is the best a dumb Shiite can say, honestly I mean it.
The first ever modern day suicide bombing was by HIZBULLAH go check it up on wiki go check anywhere on the web, Here are some facts for ya.....
It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare".
The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought the first suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)
Islamic dawah party - Shiites
HIZBULLAH - Shiites
Amal party - Shiites
I do honestly feel sorry for you Shiites having to rely on lies to justify your sect.
Remember it was a Shiite who was the FIRST MODERN DAY SUICIDE TERRORIST.
Was you really a sunni?? I don't think so, unless you haven't really studied the facts and are here spewing lies.
The rest of your lies don't deserve a response, you have no proof but childish remarks......just the way divine imarmites taught you.
So don't listen to liars like naknajawaani,suicide bombers were born within Shiism, it's a Shiite phenomenon, YOU STARTED IT!
Hezbollah was founded in 1985 hahahha liar are you guys not how can they suicide bomb in 1983 when they were founded in 1985 and terrorism has it roots and its from sunni islam have you forgetten about yazeed the terrorist of syria who killed Prophet Saww grandson in Karbala its from there terrorism spreaded worldwide stop lying sunnis you dont anything about what iam before converting to real Islam Shia i was hanafi sunni so dont talk before even knowing and who are you to decide that i was not sunni before biggest liars on this earth is sunnis nasibis
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my story from sunni to Islam is that sunnis are so deviant beliefs which made me mad and i founded out that im following another religion then Islam abu bakr Ra and omar Ra and uthman Ra and abu hurayarah and mother ayesha Ra is worshipped so much in this mad religion called sunni and sunni lies so so much about the real Islam Shia. when i begin to research and finded out that Shia is true Islam and sunni/wahabi is not Islam its a man made thing and Shia is made by the Almighty Allah Swt and sunni was made in saqifah and im shocked to see whenever sunni cant answer a thing they begin to be angry and bomb people and their extremist religion only learned them how to be extremist or a terrorist sunnism is founder of terrorism in world and whenever they cant answer a thing they get frustreated and begin to kill and murder people you guys learned that from yazid ibn muawiyah the biggest criminal and terrorist on earth he and his father was such a criminals that even their graves cant be found now you guys worship abu hurairah whos fathers name is unknown how can we trust a man whos father name is not found in history and your hatred against real Islam is just like jews and christians hate against Islam you guys fast with jews and christians you are ahlekitab
Wow what frustration up there lol......did any sunni beat you up or something?? Either that or your just full of it.
1) worship? Don't even go there, that alone shows your Shiite hatred lol, look how hard you are trying without evidence or proof you just spew hate. your Shiite sects version of Islam.....giving gods attributes to humans.......atom movers! Think.
2) you say sunni is man made..."thing"...your choice of words, shows who we deal with (intellectual imami followers), so Shiism is in the Quran please do provide the ayahs of divine leadership and let's see if you REALLY was a sunni or always a Shiite.
Them ayahs must be so clear that no way is Shiism wrong or your just LYING and trying your best to twist the words just like other lame Shiites in here,we ain't no hateful people like Shiites like you, as the post above shows.
3) sunni/wahabi??? Lol that shows you really are a Shiite
4) saqifa answered by shura through Quran that is easily understandable explained through Hadith as well as understood by scholars as well as its implementation and practice in the "REAL WORLD"........still waiting for CLEAR verses on imarmite divinity leadership.......1400 years and still here, you must be going wrong somewhere or your gonna turn into a link or iceman or (ameen)? the top seeds of Shiites to enter this site, their posts are gold.
5) Terrorism, this is the best a dumb Shiite can say, honestly I mean it.
The first ever modern day suicide bombing was by HIZBULLAH go check it up on wiki go check anywhere on the web, Here are some facts for ya.....
It was not until 1983 when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, that it became "tool of modern terrorist warfare".
The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought the first suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)
Islamic dawah party - Shiites
HIZBULLAH - Shiites
Amal party - Shiites
I do honestly feel sorry for you Shiites having to rely on lies to justify your sect.
Remember it was a Shiite who was the FIRST MODERN DAY SUICIDE TERRORIST.
Was you really a sunni?? I don't think so, unless you haven't really studied the facts and are here spewing lies.
The rest of your lies don't deserve a response, you have no proof but childish remarks......just the way divine imarmites taught you.
So don't listen to liars like naknajawaani,suicide bombers were born within Shiism, it's a Shiite phenomenon, YOU STARTED IT!
Hezbollah was founded in 1985 hahahha liar are you guys not how can they suicide bomb in 1983 when they were founded in 1985 and terrorism has it roots and its from sunni islam have you forgetten about yazeed the terrorist of syria who killed Prophet Saww grandson in Karbala its from there terrorism spreaded worldwide stop lying sunnis you dont anything about what iam before converting to real Islam Shia i was hanafi sunni so dont talk before even knowing and who are you to decide that i was not sunni before biggest liars on this earth is sunnis nasibis
LOL.......is this what ibn Saba taught you?? To LIE? It's not a surprise really cos you keep LYING about Islam from the day ibn Saba gave you the idea of divvy imarmite leadership, now look at you, lying lol.
Here read this and watch your lies come crumbling down just like the fake idea of divinity leadership https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hezbollah.
Keep trying, killers of innocents was/is a trait of Shiites, look at imam Hussein ra......you shitites called him and then left him coz you turned COWARDS.
Heck before that you even turned the first imam into a COWARD too for not defending his wife and child when they were assaulted.
Mate you ain't no sunni or hanafi, look at your post, terrorism started from Karbala?? You are a liar.
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you are biggest liar man believe in abu hurairah the jew whos father name is uknown till now and you guys say he is trustworthy narrator of Hadiths Hezbollah was founded in 1985 and that suicide bomb happened in 1983 please stop lying so much brother and get some knowledge isis is sunni taliban is sunni alqaeeda is sunni what are you talking about stop lying like abu hurairah ibn ????? unknown hahahhaha
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you are biggest liar man believe in abu hurairah the jew whos father name is uknown till now and you guys say he is trustworthy narrator of Hadiths Hezbollah was founded in 1985 and that suicide bomb happened in 1983 please stop lying so much brother and get some knowledge isis is sunni taliban is sunni alqaeeda is sunni what are you talking about stop lying like abu hurairah ibn ????? unknown hahahhaha
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hezbollah
Can you read sethi sahab? Or do you need a divine guide to read it?
The first youngest suicide bomber was a Shiite!!, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Hossein_Fahmideh
You just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself each time you reply lol.
READ the title of this thread.........it has nothing to do with Abu huraira ra.
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tell me name of abu hurayrah father?? isis is sunni isnt it?
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you are biggest liar man believe in abu hurairah the jew whos father name is uknown till now and you guys say he is trustworthy narrator of Hadiths Hezbollah was founded in 1985 and that suicide bomb happened in 1983 please stop lying so much brother and get some knowledge isis is sunni taliban is sunni alqaeeda is sunni what are you talking about stop lying like abu hurairah ibn ????? unknown hahahhaha
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hezbollah
Can you read sethi sahab? Or do you need a divine guide to read it?
The first youngest suicide bomber was a Shiite!!, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Hossein_Fahmideh
You just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself each time you reply lol.
READ the title of this thread.........it has nothing to do with Abu huraira ra.
he was a martyr guy from Iran he was not terrorist you fool abu hurairah father name is unknown dont talk hahahahaha
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Welcome to the forum Najam. Please create a new thread if you like about the name of Abu Huraira's father since it is not relevant to this thread. Thank you.
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Salaam everyone if i hurted someone please forgive me all i got angry because so much hatred on this site why are we fighting eachother its only gonna benefits zionist and they laugh at us that Muslims fight with eachother we should unite and deal with our misunderstanding in better ways dont insult eachother and have tolerance for eachother dont make usa and israel happy thats what they want divide and conquer dont be a slave to zionists they have already destroyed Muslims countries let us unite and win the battle against zionism otherwise we all gonna regret one day.
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Salaam everyone if i hurted someone please forgive me all i got angry because so much hatred on this site why are we fighting eachother its only gonna benefits zionist and they laugh at us that Muslims fight with eachother we should unite and deal with our misunderstanding in better ways dont insult eachother and have tolerance for eachother dont make usa and israel happy thats what they want divide and conquer dont be a slave to zionists they have already destroyed Muslims countries let us unite and win the battle against zionism otherwise we all gonna regret one day.
These people are not interested in uniting or unifying Muslims. They are not the Ahle Sunah and most certainly do not represent the Ahle Sunah globally, just as I do not represent or can speak about Ahle Tasheyu globally. I do understand and feel you but these individuals do not share the same thought and opinion as vast majority of the Ahle Sunah and we do.
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Salaam everyone if i hurted someone please forgive me all i got angry because so much hatred on this site why are we fighting eachother its only gonna benefits zionist and they laugh at us that Muslims fight with eachother we should unite and deal with our misunderstanding in better ways dont insult eachother and have tolerance for eachother dont make usa and israel happy thats what they want divide and conquer dont be a slave to zionists they have already destroyed Muslims countries let us unite and win the battle against zionism otherwise we all gonna regret one day.
These people are not interested in uniting or unifying Muslims. They are not the Ahle Sunah and most certainly do not represent the Ahle Sunah globally, just as I do not represent or can speak about Ahle Tasheyu globally. I do understand and feel you but these individuals do not share the same thought and opinion as vast majority of the Ahle Sunah and we do.
Suddenly you talked on behalf of Ahlus Sunnah...😂😂😂
Go and show those narrations or stories in your books about Abu Bakr, Umar, Aisha, etc. to those "majority of Ahlus Sunnah" (as you claimed) and see their reaction.😏
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Good to see that you have changed your "religion status" from Sunni to Shia. It just proved to us that you were actually practicing that dirty taqiyyah trick before despite your repeated denials.
Salaam everyone if i hurted someone please forgive me all i got angry because so much hatred on this site why are we fighting eachother its only gonna benefits zionist and they laugh at us that Muslims fight with eachother we should unite and deal with our misunderstanding in better ways dont insult eachother and have tolerance for eachother dont make usa and israel happy thats what they want divide and conquer dont be a slave to zionists they have already destroyed Muslims countries let us unite and win the battle against zionism otherwise we all gonna regret one day.
Unfortunately, from your post above, I don't think you have freed yourself from taqiyyah yet based on your other post (as below). As long as you believe in that crap written below, unity will be a long way to go.
what happened in saqifah was that 3 thugs of arabia runned away from Prophet Saww funeral and wanted to take over and get caliphate and didnt care about to attend Prophet Saww funeral and took over gave people bribery and took over and destroyed Muslims so much that we is in this state now that all media is targeting Muslims just because after Prophet Muhammad Saww 3 thugs of arabia and muawiyah and yazeed took over and wanted to destroy Islam but couldnt do that because of Ahlulbayt AS and banu umayya and banu saqifah only converted to Islam because they had no options left and they came in as enemy of Islam and ruled for 1000 years and damaged Muslims and showed them a false religion called sunnism and wahabism extremism version of their jews beliefs im very much sure that sunnism came from jews