Help! Debating friend

[Bolani Muslim]

Salaam, I've only been Sunni for 3 months yet my friend wants an  unofficial debate at the temple. Our title for this week is 'Did the Prophet (saw) choose a successor' and next week is 'Is Abu Bakr's (ra) Khilafat legit'. I was hoping that you guys could give me tips on how to debate, being my first debate and my friend much older. As well as links to articles and things I should say. I'll let you guys know how it went.
BTW, I'm gonna post any articles I find as well



Thanks for the help, Khuda Hafiz

[Rationalist]

The Ahle Sunnah respect and love both Ali and Abi Bakr, so I advise you not to engage in a topic of Abi Bakr vs Ali.

[sword_of_sunnah]

Gaining knowledge is quite important for any debate/discussion. If you feel you haven't gained enough.. then I suggest you to gain knowledge about these issues first, before debating others.

[Farid]

I would advise against debating.

What if you lose? Does this mean you have to change your sect? What if a Qura'ni comes and beats him, do both of you become Qur'anis?

Since he is a friend, it is better to have simple discussions instead of debates. The intention should be to share information, not to win.

[Husayn]

Yeah - I agree with the above.

Don't get into a debate - especially not a face-to-face debate.

Verbal debates never convince anyone, and are just a platform for people to air their own opinions, and hopefully either get applause or win respect from people of the same faith.

You have to remember that these sects are not new - the Ithna 'Asharis/Zaydis/Isma'ilis/Qur'anists have been around for a long time, and they have honed their own specific arguments.

Like all deviant sects - they concentrate on the ambigious, and abandon the specific.

e.g. Ithna 'Asharis taking the hadith of 12 Caliphs from Sahih Muslim (which is ambigious) - while at the same time rejecting all the explicit narrations in which, for example, 'Ali says Abu Bakr is better than him.

So no - don't get into a debate, because all you will get out of it is a headache.

[Muhammad Tazin]

To avoid Debate just throw Counter questions-
">Why should we devide when AlI(ra.) himself did not obey so called Wilayat and co-operated the Khilafah?" 

[MuslimK]

Salam Alaikum brother,

Why not invite him here?

[Hani]

Bring him here otherwise don't debate. You need some qualification to engage in debate and that comes only after a long time researching whatever topic you choose to debate.

[Furkan]

I am reading since one year, refutation's/articles related to sahaba, shiism etc and yet I don't see myself fit to debate face to face (not reading very much maybe).

And since such a debate depends on how much "ammunition" you have got at that moment it's just pointless. Just tell him that enough people are interested to debate a shii, since not a single heavyweight of SC dares to show up on TS (ameen get's excluded since he is a qeustioner and not a debater and not an heavyweight ^^).

[Bolani Muslim]

Thanks for the replies, I wasn't the one who wanted the debate my friend did, because he's worried I'm a 'wahabi' and want to blow shias up  . I sent him articles, websites, and this forum mutliple times, but he told me he won't read 'wahabi' material. It's only between me and him, no one else knows I'm fully Sunni. I talked over with him, and we decided it won't be verbal, instead we'll write essays discuss afterwards. Neither debate's supposed to be about Hazrat Abu Bakr vs Hazrat Ali, I'm not sure were that idea came up.

[Furkan]

Just tell him there are all kinds of sunis on this forum. And heck,  he can check the sources if he doesn't trust TS

[Rationalist]

Since he is a friend, it is better to have simple discussions instead of debates. The intention should be to share information, not to win.

 I agree with this one. Avoid debates with 12ers who are your friends. A lot of 12ers that wanted to gave me dawah, and failed to convince me to their sect no longer remained my friend. Also, many removed me as a friend on facebook only because I was critical against their sect, while they are not only critical but takfiri against the sahaba and Sunni Imams.

[Rationalist]

Thanks for the replies, I wasn't the one who wanted the debate my friend did, because he's worried I'm a 'wahabi' and want to blow shias up  .

This label wahabi is just an excuse they use to openly attack the sahaba. According to 12ers this concept of Wahabism came from Umar because he killed Fatima. So to them you will be hated not because you are a non-Sufi, but because of your attachment toward Umar. Also 12ers hate the Zaidi and refer to them as Batriyyah whom they think are bigger hypocrites then the Wahabis.

Refer to this clip at the 52 min mark. See how he tries to link the killing of 12er Shia all back to Umar. This is the core belief of majority of the 12ers.

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

[Rationalist]

Neither debate's supposed to be about Hazrat Abu Bakr vs Hazrat Ali, I'm not sure were that idea came up.

Look what you wrote:

Did the Prophet (saw) choose a successor' and next week is 'Is Abu Bakr's (ra) Khilafat legit'.

I find it hard to believe that won't turn into a topic of Abi Bakr vs Ali.

[Bolani Muslim]

^You have a point, if I tell him I believe that Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) Khilafat is legit, then it'll turn into a Abu Bakr vs Ali argument. I'll see if I can force him here to talk to more knowledgeable guys, I'm hoping once online he'll start reading the articles instead of dismissing them as 'wahabi' material.

Edit: Watching the video made me laugh for 2 reasons. I saw rajabali live ~2 years ago and used to have so much respect for the clergy, I've lost it all now considering how my own neighborhood mullah has lied to me about Ahl Sunnat. It's also funny how the he thinks shias around the world are oppressed for loving Ahlul Bayt. 

[Ameen]

Ok, so why do you think Shias have been and are being slaughtered all around Asia and the middle east??? Why are they oppressed???

[Ameen]

Since he is a friend, it is better to have simple discussions instead of debates. The intention should be to share information, not to win.

 I agree with this one. Avoid debates with 12ers who are your friends. A lot of 12ers that wanted to gave me dawah, and failed to convince me to their sect no longer remained my friend. Also, many removed me as a friend on facebook only because I was critical against their sect, while they are not only critical but takfiri against the sahaba and Sunni Imams.

And how exactly would  you convince someone to become a Sunnis??? Which ever Sunni you are that is.

[Furkan]

Ok, so why do you think Shias have been and are being slaughtered all around Asia and the middle east??? Why are they oppressed???

Everyone is jealous of shias, so they end up killing shias. Happy now?

[Ameen]

Ok, so why do you think Shias have been and are being slaughtered all around Asia and the middle east??? Why are they oppressed???

Everyone is jealous of shias, so they end up killing shias. Happy now?

I don't think you can do any better than this. LOL!

[Husayn]

Ok, so why do you think Shias have been and are being slaughtered all around Asia and the middle east??? Why are they oppressed???

Everyone is jealous of shias, so they end up killing shias. Happy now?

I don't think you can do any better than this. LOL!

It's because we are Nasibis who hate Ahlul Bayt, so we oppress you and kill you because you love them so very much.