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Post-Islam Persian History

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Kaveh Darius

Post-Islam Persian History
« on: August 20, 2017, 09:06:30 PM »
Why do Sunnis claim must of the early Sunni achievements in Iran? None of the Persian scientists, philosophers, poets  throughout the so called Islamic golden age associated or identified themselves with the religion of Islam let alone Sunni. Bear in mind, their parents and ancestors were still alive and they were Zoroastrianism. Omar khayyam dismissed the cult of Islam and advised Hassan al-Sabbah (assassins) to do the same. Zakaria Razi wrote in his memoirs he would have never accomplished his scientific.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 04:48:17 PM by MuslimK »

MuslimK

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Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 04:54:42 PM »
There are many fabrications by Iranian Islamophobes about these scholars you mentioned. Just like they fabricated the so called letter of Yazdgird to leader of the believers Omar al-Farooq. However, it is true that some of them had weird unorthodox views but not majority of them like you implied.

Their achievements are due to Islam. When Islam came to Persia, it abolished the backward and discriminatory practises of Zoroastrianism that restricted the seeking of knowledge only to the royals and the elites not common people. Islam gave the right to education to everyone. So if it wasn't for Islam, Persia wouldn't produce the great scholars and scientists.

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Kaveh Darius

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 10:58:23 PM »
There are many fabrications by Iranian Islamophobes about these scholars you mentioned. Just like they fabricated the so called letter of Yazdgird to leader of the believers Omar al-Farooq. However, it is true that some of them had weird unorthodox views but not majority of them like you implied.

Their achievements are due to Islam. When Islam came to Persia, it abolished the backward and discriminatory practises of Zoroastrianism that restricted the seeking of knowledge only to the royals and the elites not common people. Islam gave the right to education to everyone. So if it wasn't for Islam, Persia wouldn't produce the great scholars and scientists.
What is your source for your assertions that the accomplishments were for those reasons? That's the dumbest assertion ever,Persia was great and its accomplishments has nothing to do with the golden age of Islam or anything else!

Kaveh Darius

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 11:17:16 PM »
Secondly you're not Iranian, you're probably an Arab, you have no authority to speak of our history.

Hani

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 05:32:18 AM »
Buy this book Darius. National Geographic updates it.


عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Kaveh Darius

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 07:04:57 AM »
 You need to be clearly and provide a trustworthy book and give the page.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 03:39:43 PM »
There are many fabrications by Iranian Islamophobes about these scholars you mentioned. Just like they fabricated the so called letter of Yazdgird to leader of the believers Omar al-Farooq. However, it is true that some of them had weird unorthodox views but not majority of them like you implied.

Their achievements are due to Islam. When Islam came to Persia, it abolished the backward and discriminatory practises of Zoroastrianism that restricted the seeking of knowledge only to the royals and the elites not common people. Islam gave the right to education to everyone. So if it wasn't for Islam, Persia wouldn't produce the great scholars and scientists.
What is your source for your assertions that the accomplishments were for those reasons? That's the dumbest assertion ever,Persia was great and its accomplishments has nothing to do with the golden age of Islam or anything else!

It's funny to see how you ridiculed other people's argument for not providing any sources while you yourself didn't provide any.

MuslimK

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  • Total likes: 222
  • +7/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 11:02:56 PM »
What is your source for your assertions that the accomplishments were for those reasons? That's the dumbest assertion ever,Persia was great and its accomplishments has nothing to do with the golden age of Islam or anything else!

I mentioned one important reason. Islam abolished the oppressive and backward practises of the Sassanid period. Persian empire was a mighty power but all the known and famous Persian scientists, scholars, poets etc were from the Islamic period.

Secondly you're not Iranian, you're probably an Arab, you have no authority to speak of our history.

Funny! You want the Sunnis to answer, and when we do, you show attitude like above?

Peace,
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Kaveh Darius

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 11:24:10 PM »


I mentioned one important reason. Islam abolished the oppressive and backward practises of the Sassanid period. Persian empire was a mighty power but all the known and famous Persian scientists, scholars, poets etc were from the Islamic period.

Evidence!

Hani

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 01:14:10 AM »


I mentioned one important reason. Islam abolished the oppressive and backward practises of the Sassanid period. Persian empire was a mighty power but all the known and famous Persian scientists, scholars, poets etc were from the Islamic period.

Evidence!

Evidence is the book above by National Geographic, a reliable unbiased source with integrity.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ebn Hussein

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 07:40:03 AM »
Is this some typical Shia-born-Neo-Magi outburst? I mean as an Iranian I am used to it, but is this how you asked questions on a SUNNI board? The FOLLOWING is raw racism (based on their obsession with Arabs and everything that has the scent of Islam), that's not a good start:

Secondly you're not Iranian, you're probably an Arab, you have no authority to speak of our history.

The sick thinking pattern of Neo-Magis in a nutshell when being cornered:

1. Says you are not an Iranian (is that a condition to speak with you? If so, get lost)
2. You have no authority to speak about "great Persia vere vee vaaz keengs and Shiite"

The irony is that brother Muslimk is actually aKHORASANIAN (the land were Persian language is still spoken in a more purer form and large parts of it still inhabited by Persian tribes) i.e. probably more Persian than this new Magi on the block, Allah knows best.

His reaction is very common, they don't like to be challenged, their holy lalaland of Persia is infallible like an alleged Shia Imam, as brother MuslimK mentioned, these deluded lot are so gullible, they believe in the most embarassing myths every created by Arab and Islam haters:

https://youtu.be/daDZyBSlicQ

Only a Pan-Iranist airhead can believe such lies that are even debunked by more sane Iranians (even in the west):

https://iranian.com/main/blog/khodadad-rezakhani/faking-yazdger-again-and-faking-omar-too.html

To me you lot are masters of deception just like the corrupt Magi priests of the past and the modern Crypto-Magi priests of Qom, but for the sake of the brothers and visitors I shall respond to some of your comments:

. What is your source for your assertions that the accomplishments were for those reasons? That's the dumbest assertion ever,Persia was great and its accomplishments has nothing to do with the golden age of Islam or anything else!

First of all: There are certainly some people who hate Pre-Islamic Persia and exaggerate in their criticism claiming that Persia was zero before Islam, I disagree with that notion. Persia was an advanced society for her time, there is no doubt about that and Persians have achieved a lot even before Islam, however, as Muslims - and you don't have to agree with our view, it is our firm belief - Persians and all other nations back then and today were in need of reformation which came with Islam, for no matter how advanced they were, they also had serious issues in their societies (and their religions were corrupted, like Zoroastrianism that was possibly monotheistic in origin and then became more and more pagan):

1. Corruption of Zoroastrianism: https://sonsofsunnah.com/2011/11/06/1228/
2. Corruption and oppression in society --> Sassanid caste system

I hope you don't ask for evidence for the infamous Sassanid caste system, it is mentioned in any serious book about Sassanid history, look it up. In short: This social system was so rigid that membership in a class was based on birth, and the function of the king was to ensure that each class remained within its proper boundaries. That means someone who was born as a farmers son could never become a scholar and vice versa. Islam came to abolish all that nonsense (certain oppressive Muslim rulers like Al-Hajjaj who were Anti-Persian and treated Persians like second class Muslims doesn't change the actual spirit of Islam that teaches brotherhood between all Muslims), this is why we say that the likes of Omar khayyam (Persians often drop his first name), Zakariyah Razi and others were either closet-Atheist or closet-Magis were the PRODUCT of the Islamic civilisation that despire its fault gave the OPPORTUNITY to the likes of Zakariyah Razi, Farabi, Omar Khayyam and co. to excell in their respective fields (science) in the first place. If they were born in Sassanid Iran (in a lower "caste") they would have never seen the colour of the ink they used. So in that sense, there great man of a Persian Sunni backround are attributed to Islamic civilisation.

Besides, were have a list of thousands of ORTHODOX and staunch Persian (Sunnis) who supported and spread Islam for the sake of it and their love for it:

https://sonsofsunnah.com/category/the-service-of-the-ppl-of-persia-to-islam/

The Arabs ruled Persia for only three centuries, the first major Persian empire after the Arabs was ironically founded by Persian SUNNIS who instead of rejecting Islam (which they could have easily done) KEPT it and spread and defended it: https://sonsofsunnah.com/2015/12/02/the-persian-sunni-muslim-samanid-empire/


I mentioned one important reason. Islam abolished the oppressive and backward practises of the Sassanid period. Persian empire was a mighty power but all the known and famous Persian scientists, scholars, poets etc were from the Islamic period.

Evidence!

Sa'di, Ferdowsi, Rumi, Attar or Khaqani ---> https://sonsofsunnah.com/2015/01/25/khaqani-a-persian-sunni-poet-on-the-rafidah-shia/

... and dozens of others. All of them were Persian and Sunni and the result of an Islamic civilisation and environment.

As for backward practises, there is many evidences. Next-Of -Kin Marriage In Zoroastrianism & Pre-Islamic Persia for example which is an undeniable fact testified by one of the highest authorities of Zoroastrianism:

https://sonsofsunnah.com/2015/02/10/renowned-authority-on-zoroastrianism-mary-boyce-confirms-next-to-kin-marriage-in-pre-islamic-persia/

https://sonsofsunnah.com/2015/02/10/marrige-between-mother-son/

As a Sunni Persian scholars once said: "Don't be so ungrateful O Iranians, if it wasn't for Hazrat 'Omar you would still wed your mothers and sisters." (yes, Arabs also had abnormal forms of marriages, but Islam came not only for them but for the all of mankind).

Lastly: How one shouts into the forest, it echoes back, put your arrogance and pride aside or you going to have a short stay here, you will certainly learn one or two things here, especially about the many lies and exaggeration of pan-Iranist that resemble Shia lies and superstitions (what a coincidence ...).
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 08:35:23 AM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Ebn Hussein

Re: Post-Islam Persian History
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 09:43:21 AM »
Why do Sunnis claim must of the early Sunni achievements in Iran? None of the Persian scientists, philosophers, poets  throughout the so called Islamic golden age associated or identified themselves with the religion of Islam let alone Sunni.

Here a small list of "none of them":

1. The Persian poet Khaqani: A staunch Persian Sunni who passionately detested Rafidis (Shias). I guess he did Taqiyyah? ----> https://sonsofsunnah.com/2015/01/25/khaqani-a-persian-sunni-poet-on-the-rafidah-shia/

2. The Persian poet Rumi: Despite his heterodox beliefs always associated himself with Islam, Sunnism AND detested Shiism. Here poems of him praising Abu Bakr and Omar:

مولانا جلال الدین محمد بلخی، شاعر شهیر قرن هفتم هجری از خلفای راشدین و من‌جمله خلیفه دوم به کرات به‌نیکی یاد کرده:

عاشقانی که با خبر میرند      پیش معشوق چون شکر میرند
و آنک اخلاق مصطفی جویند      چون ابوبکر و چون عمر میرند

3. Attar Nishaburi: A Persian Sunni poet who associated himself with Islam and his Sunni beliefs. Like most Persians of his time he was in love with the Sahabah, here a poem of him prasing our master 'Omar (ra):

 بار بار از عمر بن خطاب، با القابی چون امیرالمؤمنین و فاروق اعظم، و رفتار او سخن به میان آمده‌است. از جمله در الهی نامه، اسرار نامه(بخش«فی فضیلة امیرالمؤمنین عمر رضی الله عنه»).

4. Sanayi Ghaznawi: Another passionate Iranian Sunni Muslim, he wrote many poems in praise of the Ahl Al-Bayt and Sahabah. He also wrote an entire poem in praise of Omar (ra):


قوت دین حق زعمّر بود      خانه دین بدو معمر بود
جگر مشرکان پر از خون کرد      کبرشان از دماغ بیرون کرد
از پی معدلت میان، اوبست      کمر عدل در جهان، اوبست
عادت بدعت از جهان برداشت      که کژی جز که در کمان نداشت
برتر از چرخ بود پایهٔ او      دیو بگریختی زسایهٔ او


There are of course many more such as Hafez, Saadi Shirazi, Hakim Ganjawi, Shams Tabrizi etc. all great men who clearly associated with Islam and Sunnism (and are hence hated by the Shia clergy in Iran, just recently I've seen a video shared on social media where a Shia mullah was criticising the state television etc. for broadcasting too much about Hafez, Rumi etc. as they are all "misguided" Sunnis!).

Of course there are scholars of WAY more importance then them, they did not just associate with Islam but have served Islam till their last breath and are considered as the beacons of knowledge in Sunnism such as:

1. Top scholars of the Salaf: The Persian students of ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (RA) ---> https://sonsofsunnah.com/2015/06/02/top-scholars-of-the-salaf-the-persian-students-of-abdullah-ibn-abbas-ra/

2. A giant of the Salaf, Al-A’mash from Tehran (Ray) ---> https://sonsofsunnah.com/2014/12/28/a-giant-of-the-salaf-al-amash-from-tehran-ray/

3. Ibn Jarir Al-Tabari – The gem of the Sunnis from the lands of Persia ---> https://sonsofsunnah.com/2014/12/22/ibn-jarir-al-tabari-the-gem-of-the-sunnis-from-the-lands-of-persia/

4. Imam Al-Bukhari the Persian ---> https://sonsofsunnah.com/2013/10/18/imam-al-bukhari-the-persian/

5. Two gems of Persia – Abu Hatim & Abu Zur`a Al-Razi ---> https://sonsofsunnah.com/category/the-service-of-the-ppl-of-persia-to-islam/page/3/

and MANY more such as Sibawayh Al-Shirazi (Persian Sunni grammarian), Ibn Hazm the Andalusian (of Persian descent), Ibn Darastawayh, Firooz Abadi (Persian Sunni Grammarian), Abdul-Qadir Al-Jilani, Al-Ramhurmuzi, Ibn Faris (another Persian Sunni Grammarian), Abu Ali Al-Farsi (Master of the arabic language), Imam Dawod Ibn Ali Al-Isfahani also known as Abu Sulayman the FOUNDER of the Zahiri Madhab, Abu Naim Al-Isfahani, Yahya Ibn Wathab, Ibn Al-Mundhir Al-Nisaburi, Shahab Al-Deen Ahmad Ibn Hussein known as Abu Shuja’, a big Shafi’i scholar from Persia/Isfahan, Abul-Qasim Al-Rafi’i Al-Qazwini (Persian Shafi’i scholar from Qazwin), Imam Baghawi (with the notorious Tafsir Al-Baghawi), Imam Wahed (Tafsir Wahed), Ibn Marawiyah Al-Isfahani, Abdullah Ibn Omar Baydhawi (Tafsir Baydhawi), the two major Tabi’een of Iraq, Hassan Al-Basri and Ibn Sireen who both were of Persian origin, Imam Thalabi, known for his Tafsir Thalabi, Abdul-Karim Shahrestani (Khorasani) known for his masterpiece called:”Al-Melal wa Al-Nahl”, Abu Bakr Ibn Abdurrahman Al-Jorjani (from Gorgan/Persia), a schlar of Sarf and Nahu (Arabic Grammer), Imam Al-Suyuti the Egyptian of Persian origin, Imam Layth bin Sa’ad the famous jurist and founder of the Layth Madhab in Egypt who was of Persians origin from Isfahan, Abu Ishaq Al-Shiraz (Persian from Shiraz), one of the biggest Shafi’i scholars ever, Firozabadi, another major Shafi’is scholar, Imam Al-Haramayn Abdul-Malik Al-Juwayni, Imam Al-Tabarani, Nafi` the Mawla of Ibn `Umar [most likely a Persian according to al-Dhahabi], Junayd Al-Baghdadi the Persian … etc etc.

^Of course most Pan-Iranists have no clue about these great men, especially ever since the take over by the Shias in Iran (in the 16th century) where Persian Sunni history is downplayed and often not mentioned at all.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

 

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