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Masturbation during ramadan ?

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al-kulayni

Masturbation during ramadan ?
« on: June 10, 2016, 01:01:34 AM »
Assalamu Aleykum

What can you say about this quote from Imam Ahmad (ra) saying that the man can do masturbation during ramadan and it doesn't break his fast ?

وفي الفصول روى عن أحمد في رجل خاف ان تنشق مثانته من الشبق أو تنشق انثياه لحبس الماء في زمن رمضان يستخرج الماء ولم يذكر بأي شيء يستخرجه قال وعندي أنه يستخرجه بما لا يفسد صوم غيره كاستمنائه بيده أو ببدن زوجته أو أمته غير الصائمة فإن كان له أمه طفلة أو صغيرة استمنى بيدها وكذلك الكافرة ويجوز وطئها فيما دون الفرج فإن أراد الوطء في الفرج مع إمكان إخراج الماء بغيره فعندي أنه لا يجوز لأن الضرورة إذا رفعت حرام ما وراءها كالشبع مع الميتة بل ههنا آكد لأن باب الفروج آكد في الحظر من الأكل
قلت وظاهر كلام أحمد جواز الوطء لأنه أباح له الفطر والإطعام فلو اتفق مثل هذا في حال الحيض لم يجز له الوطء قولا واحدا فلو اتفق ذلك لمحرم أخرج ماءه ولم يجز له الوطء فصل
فإن كان شبق الصائم مستداما جميع الزمان سقط القضاء وعدل إلى الفدية كالشيخ والشيخة وإن كان يعتريه في زمن الصيف أو الشتاء قضي في الزمن الآخر ولا فدية هنا لأنه عذر غير مستدام فهو كالمريض ذكر ذلك في الفصول فائدة حكم القيام إلى الجنازة
وقوله في المقنع وإن جاءت وهو جالس لم يقم لها يعنى الجنازة لم أر هذا في الكلام أحمد رضي الله عنه وقد قال وإن قام لم أعبه وإن قعد فلا بأس وقال الميموني في مسائله سمعته يقول إذا تبع الجنازة فلا يجلس حتى توضع كذا قال أبو هريرة وأبو سعيد وإذا رآها قام قال كان هذا أكثر في الخبر من عشرة من أصحاب رسول الله يروونه
ثم قال الميموني تسمية من يروي عن النبي أنه كان إذا رأى جنازة قام لها عثمان بن عفان سعيد بن زيد عامر بن ربيعة قيس بن سعد سهل بن حنيف

http://islamport.com/w/qym/Web/3181/859.htm
source : bada'i' al fawaid

Farid

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2016, 02:33:55 AM »
Wa alaykum alsalam,

First we need to be sure that Imam Ahmad said this. Secondly, he is talking about a hypothetical scenario in which a bladder could actually burst. Scholars in the past spoke about such hypothetical situations, even if they are unlikely to occur.

Rest assured that nobody's bladder will burst from retrograde ejaculation and nobody's gonads will burst either.

Again, he is speaking hypothetically and I am pretty sure that there has never been a case like this recorded in medical history.

If anyone is going to abuse a clear fatwa to masturbate everytime they feel aroused, then it is their own problem.

Farid

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 02:40:19 AM »
Also, it doesn't say that it doesn't break his fast. This hypothetical person needs to make up the days. Re-read it carefully. This is suggested in the third paragraph.

al-kulayni

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 03:46:12 AM »
Could you please translate the part where he says the person needs to make up the days ? Barak Allahu fik akhi farid

Farid

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 05:22:37 AM »
At your service akhi. =]

فإن كان شبق الصائم مستداما جميع الزمان سقط القضاء وعدل إلى الفدية

If the urges are continuous all the time, then there are no days to be made up, but instead, the situation is changed to paying the fidya (amount).

al-kulayni

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2016, 01:18:32 PM »
Shukran akhi, could you tell me if my undestanding of this part is ok : فعندي أنه لا يجوز لأن الضرورة
Ibn Al Qayyim is saying that "it's not permited except in case of necessity"
That's it ?

Do you know if there exists shia fatawas with the same opinion ? Masturbation or something near to that, permitted in case of necessity and wich doesn't break fast ?

I have seen this fatwa from 'Allama Tabatabai in Al Urwa wal Wuthqa




"If someone caress his wife (make tafkheed) and penetrate her unvolontary, it doesn't break his fasting."

Sistani says the same thing in his book Sharh Al 'Urwa Wal Wuthqa :
[ 2393 ] مسألة 10 : لو قصد التفخيذ مثلا فدخل في أحد الفرجين لم يبطل ، ولو قصد الإدخال في أحدهما فلم يتحقق كان مبطلا من حيث إنه نوى المفطر

source: http://alkhatem.com/books/books/sistany/sh2/books_16_sistani.org.html

it's not exactly the same thing, but we can bring closer the two cases.

I'm asking that because actually some shia try to pretend that in sunni fiqh if you masturbate, it doesn'et braek your fast.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 01:24:39 PM by al-kulayni »

Farid

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2016, 01:53:33 PM »
Your understanding of Ibn Al Qayyim's opinion is correct.

I am not familiar with a similar Shia view, but that is because I never bothered to look it up.

al-kulayni

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2016, 03:50:35 PM »
If you have time to look a this, it will be good because shias try to attack our fiqh by posting some of these fatawa whereas i'm sure that the same fatawa exist in their fiqh.

And do you know if imam Ahmad did say this in his book al fusul ?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 03:57:21 PM by al-kulayni »

Farid

Re: Masturbation during ramadan ?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2016, 04:23:53 PM »
^ Go ahead and do the research akhi. I'm way too busy. =]

 

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