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Qadiyani's

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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2017, 02:40:01 PM »
It clearly states the first night of ramadan.

The fact that its weak & the event has never occurred may explain why many wouldn't cite it as evidence?

What is clear is that mirza ghulam proved he is a liar by amending the dates on this weak hadith to make his claim.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 02:42:32 PM by zaid_ibn_ali »

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2017, 02:44:08 PM »
It clearly states the first night of ramadan.

The fact that its weak & has never occurred is may explain why many wouldn't cite it as evidence?

What is clear is that mirza ghulam proved he is a liar by amending the dates on this weak hadith to make his claim.

I'm not here to be an apologist for Ghulam Ahmad. But honesty and objectivity demands that if hypothetically the Hadith were to be authentic with this wording then no person of knowledge would interpret it as meaning the lunar eclipse is suppose to occur on the first night of Ramadan, since that is impossible as Shaykh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyya رحمه الله said.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2017, 03:05:38 PM »
So its weak, its impossible in the sense it has never occurred thus far.

Mirza clearly lied by altering the first night to the middle of ramadan.




Rationalist

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2017, 01:17:05 AM »

The Hadith is certainly not fabricated, though it may have weakness. Now keep in mind this Hadith contains a prophecy. Hypothetically if you came across a prophecy from a weak Hadith which you saw as being fulfilled or knew for sure had been fulfilled, would you still deny the Hadith because of some weakness in its Sanad? In fact there are narrations that we know for a fact are outright fabrications, yet some of today's Ulama cling to them and quote them because they contain predictions which have turned out to be true. Hamza Yusuf (I assume you know of him) quoted a Hadith which is weak as containing an accurate prediction regarding Daesh. It it attributed to sayyidina Amir ul Mumineen رضى الله عنه and says:
إِذَا رَأَيْتُمُ الرَّايَاتِ السُّودَ فَالْزَمُوا الأَرْضَ فَلا تُحَرِّكُوا أَيْدِيَكُمْ ، وَلا أَرْجُلَكُمْ ، ثُمَّ يَظْهَرُ قَوْمٌ ضُعَفَاءُ لا يُؤْبَهُ لَهُمْ ، قُلُوبُهُمْ كَزُبَرِ الْحَدِيدِ ، هُمْ أَصْحَابُ الدَّوْلَةِ ، لا يَفُونَ بِعَهْدٍ وَلا مِيثَاقٍ ، يَدْعُونَ إِلَى الْحَقِّ وَلَيْسُوا مِنْ أَهْلِهِ ، أَسْمَاؤُهُمُ الْكُنَى ، وَنِسْبَتُهُمُ الْقُرَى ، وَشُعُورُهُمْ مُرْخَاةٌ كَشُعُورِ النِّسَاءِ ، حَتَّى يَخْتَلِفُوا فِيمَا بَيْنَهُمْ ، ثُمَّ يُؤْتِي اللَّهُ الْحَقَّ مَنْ يَشَاءُ
"When you see black flags, remain where you are and do not move your hands or your feet. Thereafter there shall appear a feeble folk to whom no concern is given. Their hearts will be like fragments of iron. They are the representatives of the State [AsHab al-Dawla]. They will fulfill neither covenant nor agreement. They will invite to the Truth though they are not from its people. Their names will be Kunaa (i.e. Abu Musab, Abu Bakr, etc.), and their ascriptions will be to Quraa (villages, towns i.e. al-Zarqawi, al-Baghdadi). Their hair will be long like that of women. They will remain so till they differ among themselves, and then God will bring forth the Truth from whomsoever He wills." (Kitab al-Fitan of Nuaym b. Hammad)

I know the scholars that still reject the hadith. A hadith based on some truth is not binding on someone's aqeeda. 

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2017, 01:40:25 AM »
I know the scholars that still reject the hadith. A hadith based on some truth is not binding on someone's aqeeda.

You said that you don't consider anything binding unless it has Tawaatur. Does that mean you don't consider the facts of Nuzul al Masih, Adhab al Qabr, Zuhur al Mahdi, Khuruj ad Dajjal, the Mizan, the Sirat, Sun rising from West before Judgment Day, etc., are not part of the Aqida?

muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2017, 04:56:23 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
Seeing the antics and trickery of the closet-Qadiani in our midst here, I cannot help but remember what brother Nouman Ali Khan said regarding this religion.  Not verbatim but he said something to the effect that Allah (swt) blesses people when they approach the Qur'an in whatever context he or she approaches it.  If they come seeking guidance, Allah (swt) will guide them.  However, if they come to find criticism, they find that in abundance as well (although the "criticism" they find, I must say, is nothing but a manifestation of their own ignorance).

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2017, 05:12:25 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
Seeing the antics and trickery of the closet-Qadiani in our midst here, I cannot help but remember what brother Nouman Ali Khan said regarding this religion.  Not verbatim but he said something to the effect that Allah (swt) blesses people when they approach the Qur'an in whatever context he or she approaches it.  If they come seeking guidance, Allah (swt) will guide them.  However, if they come to find criticism, they find that in abundance as well (although the "criticism" they find, I must say, is nothing but a manifestation of their own ignorance).

This is the same Nouman Ali Khan who doesn't know basic Arabic vocabulary and has somehow become a big shot Mufassir of the Holy Qur'an. Remember when he said the dog mentioned in Surah al Kahf has to be an animal because it says its paws were outstretched, and he said the word ذِرَاعَيْهِ means "its paws". What an embarrassment!


muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2017, 05:12:39 AM »
I'll just briefly show you the heavenly Sign in favor of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani

I'll extensively show you the shameful existence of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani in this world and we all know his despicable end which did not afford him to even recite the shahada, due to extreme dehydration that made it impossible for him to speak or recite anything.

On May 22, 1893 lasting till June 5, 1893, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad debated Abdullah Khan Atham, a retired deputy commissioner and a Christian.  Toward the end of the debate, the Christians brought one blind, one deaf, and one paralyzed individual to the debate and challenged Mirza to cure them as Jesus (asws) had done.  Mirza was not able to cure any of them and seeing his embarrassment, it is reported in Roohani Khazaen that many Qadianis left Mirza and converted to Christianity.

Following the debate, on June 5th 1893, Mirza said that he had received a prophecy from Allah (swt) and said, "When I humbly entreated and implored God Almighty and prayed to Him to show me the details of the matter, He indicated to me that the liar will die within 15 months (before September 5, 1894), provided he does not return to the truth (Islam); and he who is on the truth and believes in true God, his honor will be restored and when this prophecy is fulfilled some blind man will start seeing, paralyzed start walking, and deaf start hearing.  I admit that if this prophecy proves to be False, I am prepared for every punishment.  My face should be blackened and I should be hanged.  I swear by the Mighty Allah that what I have said will happen.  It must happen.  It is possible that the earth may be changed for another earth and the sky may be replaced by another sky, but it is not possible for God's word to change -- prepare for me a cross if my falsehood is exposed and curse me more than the Satans and the evil persons are cursed."  (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 292-293; Jang-i-Maqaddas, P. 188)

After many failed attempts at Atham's life, Mirza pronounced many other prophecies (regarding the fate of Atham) none of which came true.  You can read all the detailed accounts at http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecb.php

You might also find his "Heavenly Sign" if you read about his debate with Dr. Abdul Hakim, an ex-Qadiani who left Qadianism during the lifetime of Mirza while challenging and badly exposing him: http://irshad.org/qadianism/prophecg.php
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 05:20:37 AM by muslim720 »

muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2017, 05:17:39 AM »
This is the same Nouman Ali Khan who doesn't know basic Arabic vocabulary and has somehow become a big shot Mufassir of the Holy Qur'an. Remember when he said the dog mentioned in Surah al Kahf has to be an animal because it says its paws were outstretched, and he said the word ذِرَاعَيْهِ means "its paws". What an embarrassment!

Funny that you should quote a nutjob like Abu Mussab who would not hesitate a second to call you a kaffir and make your blood halaal for the ummah.  Having said that, Nouman Ali Khan can school your fifth "Caliph", the one who cannot even speak basic Arabic, let alone have a strong grip on classical Arabic.

Out of curiosity, do you live in Toronto?  If yes, are you an Afghan converted to Qadianism?  Way back in the days, I used to visit an Afghan forum where we had an Afghan convert to Qadianism from Toronto high on "Love for All, Hatred for None" BS, loaded with Qadiani funds to propagate his filth among the online Afghan community.  Speaking of dogs, he was chased away like a dog....and he didn't even have paws, at least not literally.  Metaphorically....well, I will let you have at it since splitting hair is a Qadiani specialty.

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2017, 05:28:11 AM »
Funny that you should quote a nutjob like Abu Mussab

Abu Mussab is irrelevant. The point is your Nouman Ali Khan who has the audacity to give Tafsir of the Qur'an al-Karim to the public didn't even know the meaning of the word ذراع something that even a child would know from an Arabic speaking family. So I guess a young kid from an Arabic speaking family is better qualified to give Tafsir than Numan Ali Khan!

Quote
Out of curiosity, do you live in Toronto?  If yes, are you an Afghan converted to Qadianism?  Way back in the days, I used to visit an Afghan forum where we had an Afghan convert to Qadianism from Toronto high on "Love for All, Hatred for None" BS, loaded with Qadiani funds to propagate his filth among the online Afghan community.  Speaking of dogs, he was chased away like a dog....and he didn't even have paws, at least not literally.  Metaphorically....well, I will let you have at it since splitting hair is a Qadiani specialty.

You're talking about a brother named Tamim Yusufzai. He is a very intelligent and lovely brother. No I'm not him and I do live in Toronto. If you want I will debate any of your mullas in person here in Toronto then we will see who runs like a dog.

muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2017, 05:41:25 AM »
Abu Mussab is irrelevant.

He is very relevant as we shall find soon.

Quote
The point is your Nouman Ali Khan who has the audacity to give Tafsir of the Qur'an al-Karim to the public didn't even know the meaning of the word ذراع something that even a child would know from an Arabic speaking family.

The point - and here is where Abu Mussab becomes relevant - is that Abu Mussab is saying that Nouman Ali Khan said such and such without any reference to any of his video clips or publications.  And you thought I did not know your Qadiani tactics?

Quote
So I guess a young kid from an Arabic speaking family is better qualified to give Tafsir than Numan Ali Khan!

No, but a young kid from an Arabic speaking family can definitely help your fifth "Caliph" learn the basics of Arabic.

Quote
You're talking about a brother named Tamim Yusufzai. He is a very intelligent and lovely brother.

Yes, I am glad now I know his real name. 

Quote
If you want I will debate any of your mullas in person here in Toronto then we will see who runs like a dog.

You first get through a single member here on this website and then ask for our scholars who, by the way, are too much to deal with for your entire lot.  However, while I have forced you to tell the truth which you were hiding otherwise (that you are a Qadiani), now would be a good time to address the debates with Atham and Dr. Abdul Hakim.  You were hoping we only knew about Sanaullah Amritsari, lol!

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2017, 05:57:26 AM »

I'll extensively show you the shameful existence of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani in this world and we all know his despicable end which did not afford him to even recite the shahada, due to extreme dehydration that made it impossible for him to speak or recite anything.


As usual you get all your information from some websites online without having ever actually read any of the books you're quoting and researched the historical events objectively. Otherwise the verdict of Islam is that it is enough to call a person a liar who simply repeats whatever he has heard. Those who were witnesses at the time of Ghulam Ahmad's final moments in this life such as his son and successor Mirza Mahmud Ahmad testify that throughout these final moments before he died there was only one word on the tongue of his father "ALLAH"





As you can see, I'm not merely quoting some website unlike you, but giving you a real reference from an actual book in my possession.

According to other reports his last words were اللہ میرے پیارے اللہ "Allah, my beloved Allah"



ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2017, 06:14:42 AM »
You might also find his "Heavenly Sign" if you read about his debate with Dr. Abdul Hakim, an ex-Qadiani who left Qadianism during the lifetime of Mirza while challenging and badly exposing him: http://irshad.org/qadianism/prophecg.php

As for Dr. Abdul Hakim Khan of Patiala, I've written a detailed article about him and his prophecy on my blog with actual references unlike the resource you are quoting from

http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2016/12/the-apostasy-of-dr-abdul-hakim-khan-of.html

Now let's analyze the lies and deceptions from the resource you are quoting from (irshad.org):

Lie #1
"When Mirza Ghulam's claims became completely outrageous and obviously unIslamic, Dr. Hakim separated from the "Ahmadi" movement"

The Truth: Dr. Abdul Hakim was expelled from the Ahmadiyya Jama'at by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad because of his doctrines which constitute apostasy from Islam. Dr. Abdul Hakim introduced a new doctrine that a person can obtain salvation only by acknowledging Tawhid (the Oneness of Allah) but it is not necessary for salvation to believe in the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. (Al-Zikr al-Hakim No.4) - you can see the original references on the link of my blog I gave earlier

So your hero Dr. Abdul Hakim was actually a Murtad from Islam, how ironic is that!

Lie #2
"Mirza Ghulam, he refused the debate, and instead announced: "Abdul Hakim will die during my life-time, as he insults and disgraces me.  He shall not live to insult me."

Truth: Irshad.org team has quoted this without any reference whatsoever!

Lie #3
"Mirza Ghulam died suddenly and unexpectedly, on the morning of May 25, 1908.  Allah(SWT) made the prophecy of Dr. Hakim come true and rejected all the prophecies of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani in this regard."

The prophecy of Dr. Abdul Hakim himself abrogated his own prophecy that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad will die before 4th August, 1908. He amended his prophecy and declared that Ghulam Ahmad will die on the actual date of 4th August 1908 not before it! (Paisa Akhbar, Lahore and Ahle Hadith, Amritsar: 15th May, 1908)

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad therefore died on May 26th, 1908, thus fulfilling his own inspiration that Dr. Abdul Hakim will be disgraced and proven a liar.

Another person whom you mentioned, Maulawi Sanaullah Amritsari, was very upset because Dr. Abdul Hakim had changed his prophecy:

"However, we cannot refrain from saying what is true. Had the doctor stopped at what he had stated before, that is, his prediction of Mirza's death within fourteen months and not fixed a specific date as he has done then those objections could have never been raised as are being raised today by the Paisa Akhbar of the 27th, wherein it is stated that had the prophecy been left as, ‘up to the 21st of Saavan’ and not altered to, ‘on the 21st of Saavan’ it would have, indeed, been wonderful. But alas, his revelation that Mirza will die on the 21st of Saavan, that is 4th of August, has been published in the Ahle Hadith issue of 15th May, 1908. We wish that he would have left his earlier revelations unaltered, without giving a specific date. Then there could have been no excuse.”
(Ahle Hadith, 12 June 1908)

What an embarrassment!

muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2017, 06:26:55 AM »
As usual you get all your information from some websites online without having ever actually read any of the books you're quoting and researched the historical events objectively. Otherwise the verdict of Islam is that it is enough to call a person a liar who simply repeats whatever he has heard.

Unfortunately for you, I can speak Urdu and the image you have shared - as though your revised printed books are hujjah upon me - says, "bimari ke waqt sirf ek hi lafz aap ke zabaan (na)mubaarak par thhaa aur wo lafz Allah thhaa". 

Now, I will do with you what you do with the Qur'an and our books upon which you have no rights.  The quote says that at the time of illness, there was only word on his tongue and that was the word of Allah (swt).  That - to give you a dose of your own Qadiani buffoonery - does not prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad recited the shahadah when his soul departed his body as he was breathing his last while taking a dump.  For the sake of argument, I will concede that Mirza had the word of Allah (swt) on his tongue (while he was ill), how does that prove that he recited the shahada when his soul departed his body?

Having said that, I will address a few points your "very intelligent and lovely" brother makes in this video.  I found this video thanks to you because now I have that murtad's name.

In the video posted below, your "very intelligent and lovely" brother says that his father ensured that he had an Islamic upbringing.  Then he reads from a script, the same tale we find in nearly all of the fake ex-Muslim videos on YouTube.  Tamim says that while he was at a book stall, a man approached him and informed him about Imam Mahdi (as) prior to which he did not know anything about Imam Mahdi (as) or his prophesied coming.  Sounds a lot like those (fake) ex-Muslims who say that they were pious, observing Muslims but did not know Jesus (asws) until a certain someone introduced them to him.

Secondly, Tamim - much like the fake ex-Muslims - says that he met the same man again who told Tamim that he was constantly praying for him *violins*  Again, a lot like what almost every fake ex-Muslim says!

Thirdly, Tamim, at that Afghan forum, used to pass himself off as someone who was an expert in Arabic.  Listening to his Arabic recitation, he sounds like a novice.  And for someone who claims to have lived in Canada his entire life, his English - at best - can be described as "conversational" with a noticeable Afghan accent.  This is important, especially the latter part, because a few members on that forum were convinced that Tamim is a liar who is on Qadiani payroll.  Having watched this video (or I should say, heard to its audio), I am almost convinced of the same.

Lastly, Tamim says that he became a Qadiani when he found "proof" for the fact that Jesus (asws) "had died".  Too much to ask from a blind, deaf and dumb individual like yourself (like the rest of your lot), but do you see the problem with that?  Allow me to help you.  Your "very intelligent and lovely" brother accepted Qadianism not on its merits or irrefutable proofs (though there is none) but because he, in his mind, substantiated the claim that Jesus (asws) "had died".  For that to make Qadianism true (at best) is extrapolation.  And the dishonest liar he is, he says in the clip that he was the least concerned with things such as where Jesus (asws) died, etc.  He only wanted to know IF Jesus (asws) died or not.  Well, the place of Jesus's (asws) death - if he was honest - is very important.  How did he end up on Indian subcontinent?

To wrap up my winded post, if you see your "very intelligent and lovely" brother, tell him what the Afghan king said to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad when he (Mirza) tried to mimic the Prophet (saw) and sent a letter to him inviting him to Qadianism.  The Afghan king replied with two words, "inja beya" translated "come here".

« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 06:29:20 AM by muslim720 »

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2017, 06:42:59 AM »

On May 22, 1893 lasting till June 5, 1893, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad debated Abdullah Khan Atham, a retired deputy commissioner and a Christian.  Toward the end of the debate, the Christians brought one blind, one deaf, and one paralyzed individual to the debate and challenged Mirza to cure them as Jesus (asws) had done.  Mirza was not able to cure any of them and seeing his embarrassment, it is reported in Roohani Khazaen that many Qadianis left Mirza and converted to Christianity.

Following the debate, on June 5th 1893, Mirza said that he had received a prophecy from Allah (swt) and said, "When I humbly entreated and implored God Almighty and prayed to Him to show me the details of the matter, He indicated to me that the liar will die within 15 months (before September 5, 1894), provided he does not return to the truth (Islam); and he who is on the truth and believes in true God, his honor will be restored and when this prophecy is fulfilled some blind man will start seeing, paralyzed start walking, and deaf start hearing.  I admit that if this prophecy proves to be False, I am prepared for every punishment.  My face should be blackened and I should be hanged.  I swear by the Mighty Allah that what I have said will happen.  It must happen.  It is possible that the earth may be changed for another earth and the sky may be replaced by another sky, but it is not possible for God's word to change -- prepare for me a cross if my falsehood is exposed and curse me more than the Satans and the evil persons are cursed."  (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 292-293; Jang-i-Maqaddas, P. 188)

After many failed attempts at Atham's life, Mirza pronounced many other prophecies (regarding the fate of Atham) none of which came true.  You can read all the detailed accounts at http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecb.php

Now as for the debate with Abdullah Atham, why didn't you quote Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's response to the staged drama of bringing a blind, deaf and paralyzed for him to cure? He gave a beautiful reply and see how he turned the tables on the Christians. He said that it isn't my belief that the Messiah literally cured blind and paralyzed people, but that is allegorical language in the scriptures talking about spiritual life. But since you insist that the blind, deaf and paralyzed should be healed literally, then your own Bible says "If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." (Matthew 17:20) "And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease." (Matthew 10:1) "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16:17-18)

Then Mirza Ghulam Ahmad pointed to the blind, deaf and paralyzed person brought forth by the Christians and challenged the Christians to heal them to prove that they possessed even a mustard grain of faith, and if they were true believers they had to possess this ability according to their own Scripture.

As for the prophecy of Abdullah Atham dying within 15 months, as Ghulam Ahmad explicitly stated, it was a conditional prophecy subject to not turning back to the truth. Your irshad.org team put Islam in brackets but that it a dishonest interpolation on their part.

So what is the truth?

The reason he did not die in the fifteen months was because of him stopping his mockery and him repenting. When the last day of the fifteen months had arrived, Atham did not die. A lot of people tried to claim that the prophecy was not fulfilled. It was already shown that this prophecy was conditional based upon the repentance of Atham. The silence of Atham showed that he repented and developed a fear of Allah. In reply to all of the allegations of the Mullahs and the Christians, Ghulam Ahmad made a announcement where he offered 4000 rupees to Atham if he can claim that he has not repented.
 
Ghulam Ahmad stated:
 
“Now, if Atham swears on oath (that he has not repented) the promise of one year is conclusive and categorical, with which there are no conditions. And the decree is unchangeable. And if Atham does not take the oath, even then God would not let a culprit go unpunished who tried to deceive the world by hiding the truth. The days are near, not distant.”( Announcement, ‘4000 Rs. Reward’, p. 11, 27 October 1894)
 
Seven months after this announcement and challenge was made, Atham passed away without mocking the Prophetsaw for the rest of his life. He was not able to step up to this challenge because he clearly repented. Why else would he not accept free money, if he truly denied the truthfulness of Muhammadsaw?

Ghulam Ahmad wrote: “In your book Adruna-e-Bible, you have called our Holy Prophetsaw Dajjal, whereas I believe him to be a true messenger, and I firmly believe Islam to be from God. Now this is something that will be decided by heaven. The heavenly decree is that whichever of us is false in his statement and unjustly declares the true messenger to be a liar and dajjal, and whichever of us is an enemy of the truth, shall be cast in Hawia [hell] within fifteen months from today, in the lifetime of the truthful one; unless he turns to the true i.e desists from calling the righteous and true Prophetsaw Dajjal and refrains from impertinence and abuse. I said this because the mere denial of a religion does not merit punishment in this world, it is audacious, impertinent and insolent vilification that makes one deserve punishment. Thus when Atham was apprised of this prophecy in this gathering of more than seventy people, he blanched visibly, his face turned pale, and his hands started to tremble. He immediately took his tongue out of his mouth, touched his ears with both hands, and began to shake his head and hands just like frightened culprit who vehemently denies any wrongdoing, repents and shows great humility. With a quivering tongue, he kept saying, I repent! I repent! I am not guilty of any disrespect or blasphemy; and I have never called the Holy Prophet saw Dajjal. All the while he was trembling and this spectacle was not only be held by Muslims but his humble attitude was also witnessed by a large number of Christians. His denial seemed to signify that his statement in his book Andruna-e-Bible was not meant as an insult. In any case, he ended up retracting the word Dajjal before this gathering of about seventy people, and it was this one word that had occasioned this prophecy. He escaped death within a period of fifteen months, because he had recanted that blasphemous word on which the prophecy depended and God would surely never forget the condition that he himself had attached….”(Nuzulul Masih, Ruhani Khazain Vol 18. Pp 541-545)

muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2017, 06:43:04 AM »
As for Dr. Abdul Hakim Khan of Patiala, I've written a detailed article about him and his prophecy on my blog with actual references unlike the resource you are quoting from

Your articles, as far as I am concerned, hold the same status as your Qadiani books.  Even my trash can is too good to throw them in it.

Quote
The Truth: Dr. Abdul Hakim was expelled from the Ahmadiyya Jama'at by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad .....

So your hero Dr. Abdul Hakim was actually a Murtad from Islam, how ironic is that!

Being expelled from Qadianism, to correct your misunderstanding, does not make one murtad.  The concept of becoming a "murtad" is built within Islam and Qadianism is outside Islam.  Please take a moment to reflect on that.

Quote
Lie #2
"Mirza Ghulam, he refused the debate, and instead announced: "Abdul Hakim will die during my life-time, as he insults and disgraces me.  He shall not live to insult me."

Truth: Irshad.org team has quoted this without any reference whatsoever!

Actually, Irshad.org has published Mirza's statement and then gives a detailed account from Mirza's book.

"Another enemy has appeared now; his name is Abdul Hakim Khan and he is a doctor who lives in state of Patiala. He claims that I shall die in his life-time, before the fourth of August 1908, as the sign of his truthfulness. He claims to have been inspired that I am a dajjal (impostor), kafir (unbeliever), and kazzab (habitual liar). At first, he had taken bayat with me and for twenty years he had continuously been in my Jama'at (movement) and one of my disciples; however, now he has become an unbeliever (e.g. not a Qadiani)� God has informed me, however, that he will be afflicted with torturous punishment and God will perish him. I shall, on the other hand, remain safe from his mischief. This is a matter in the control of God. Undoubtedly, God will help those who are truthful..."(Chashma-e-Maeroofat, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 23, P. 337; Ain-ul-Marifa, P. 321-322, May 1908)

In the end, Mirza died in the lifetime of Dr. Abdul Hakim as it happened with many others he debated.  Almost all outlived Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

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The prophecy of Dr. Abdul Hakim himself abrogated his own prophecy

As previously stated, Mirza died in the lifetime of Dr. Abdul Hakim.

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What an embarrassment!

Indeed but which account is more embarrassing?  The failed debates?  The failed prophecies?  The failed existence?  Or, the despicable end while taking a dump?  Your pick!

muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2017, 06:48:45 AM »
Now as for the debate with Abdullah Atham, why didn't you quote Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's response to the staged drama of bringing a blind, deaf and paralyzed for him to cure? He gave a beautiful reply and see how he turned the tables on the Christians. He said that it isn't my belief that the Messiah literally cured blind and paralyzed people, but that is allegorical language in the scriptures talking about spiritual life.

Leaving the rest of your psycho-babble BS aside, allow me to refute the foundation within your post and the rest of your lie will be flushed down much like how Mirza's life came out his rear end and was flushed down the toilet.

Who in the living blue hell cares about Mirza's personal beliefs?  Beautiful reply?  I say here is another embarrassment.  What difference does it make that Mirza believed that Jesus' (asws) miracles were allegorical?  The Muslims believe his miracles were literal, actual and tangible.  The Christians, too, believe the same. 

Furthermore, Mirza neither understood classical Arabic (it is claimed he received basic Arabic education) nor Aramaic or Hebrew or English to pass judgment on Islamic sources and Judeo-Christian texts.

You shot yourself in the foot by quoting Mirza's desperate attempt to escape from the challenge because it proves that Mirza's beliefs were antithetical to Islam, just like yours!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 06:52:30 AM by muslim720 »

muslim720

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2017, 07:00:12 AM »

Now as for the debate with Abdullah Atham, why didn't you quote Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's response to the staged drama of bringing a blind, deaf and paralyzed for him to cure? He gave a beautiful reply and see how he turned the tables on the Christians. He said that it isn't my belief that the Messiah literally cured blind and paralyzed people, but that is allegorical language in the scriptures talking about spiritual life.

Leaving the rest of your psycho-babble BS aside, allow me to refute the foundation within your post and the rest of your lie will be flushed down much like how Mirza's life came out his rear end and was flushed down the toilet.

Who in the living blue hell cares about Mirza's personal beliefs?  Beautiful reply?  I say here is another embarrassment.  What difference does it make that Mirza believed that Jesus' (asws) miracles were allegorical?  The Muslims believe his miracles were literal, actual and tangible.  The Christians, too, believe the same. 

Furthermore, Mirza neither understood classical Arabic (it is claimed he received basic Arabic education) nor Aramaic or Hebrew or English to pass judgment on Islamic sources and Judeo-Christian texts.

You shot yourself in the foot by quoting Mirza's desperate attempt to escape from the challenge because it proves that Mirza's beliefs were antithetical to Islam, just like yours!  It is absurd to believe that someone with no understanding of Arabic can ascribe allegorical meanings to Jesus' (asws) literal miracles.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 07:01:35 AM by muslim720 »

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2017, 07:02:53 AM »
Unfortunately for you, I can speak Urdu and the image you have shared - as though your revised printed books are hujjah upon me - says, "bimari ke waqt sirf ek hi lafz aap ke zabaan (na)mubaarak par thhaa aur wo lafz Allah thhaa". 

Now, I will do with you what you do with the Qur'an and our books upon which you have no rights.  The quote says that at the time of illness, there was only word on his tongue and that was the word of Allah (swt).  That - to give you a dose of your own Qadiani buffoonery - does not prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad recited the shahadah when his soul departed his body as he was breathing his last while taking a dump.  For the sake of argument, I will concede that Mirza had the word of Allah (swt) on his tongue (while he was ill), how does that prove that he recited the shahada when his soul departed his body?

You have just committed the logical fallacy known as petitio principii or "begging the question", that is, you are attempting to prove a proposition (Mirza is false because his last words weren't the Shahada) based on a premise (the last words of true believers is always the Shahada) that itself requires proof.

Now let me give you an Ilzami Jawab (since you know Urdu). Prove to me from a Hadith that the last words uttered by the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم were the Shahadah or Shahadatain.

In fact, his last words were اللَّهُمَّ الرَّفِيقَ الأَعْلَى and not the Shahada according to the authentic Hadith.

So when you said: "I will concede that Mirza had the word of Allah (swt) on his tongue (while he was ill), how does that prove that he recited the shahada when his soul departed his body?" you shot yourself in the foot, because the last words of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was not the shahada either.

As for your point that Mirza was saying "Allah" during his final illness and not at the exact time of his death, we are talking about last words before dying. The Hadith about the Prophet's last words likewise say he was saying those words after he recovered from falling unconscious while his head was resting on the lap of our Mother Aaisha رضى الله عنها

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2017, 07:16:56 AM »

Being expelled from Qadianism, to correct your misunderstanding, does not make one murtad.

Another logical fallacy and strawman argument! You nakedly misrepresented what I said and you know it.

I never claimed Dr. Abdul Hakim became an apostate due to him being expelled from the Ahmadiyya. I said he became an apostate due to his Aqida that a person can be saved from Hell merely by believing in the Oneness of Allah, and it is not necessary to believe in the Risalah of sayyidina Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. Now if you are an honest person you too will confess that Dr. Abdul Hakim if he held such a view was in reality a Murtad from Islam. But you will never do that simply because of your blind animosity to Ghulam Ahmad which is making you blinded by hatred. Allah Most High has definitely described your condition in the Holy Quran.


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Actually, Irshad.org has published Mirza's statement and then gives a detailed account from Mirza's book.

"Another enemy has appeared now; his name is Abdul Hakim Khan and he is a doctor who lives in state of Patiala. He claims that I shall die in his life-time, before the fourth of August 1908, as the sign of his truthfulness. He claims to have been inspired that I am a dajjal (impostor), kafir (unbeliever), and kazzab (habitual liar). At first, he had taken bayat with me and for twenty years he had continuously been in my Jama'at (movement) and one of my disciples; however, now he has become an unbeliever (e.g. not a Qadiani)� God has informed me, however, that he will be afflicted with torturous punishment and God will perish him. I shall, on the other hand, remain safe from his mischief. This is a matter in the control of God. Undoubtedly, God will help those who are truthful..."(Chashma-e-Maeroofat, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 23, P. 337; Ain-ul-Marifa, P. 321-322, May 1908)

What you quote doesn't match your claim or the claim of Irshad.org. It merely says that God will punish Dr. Abdul Hakim, there is no timeframe given nor is it explicitly stated that Dr. Abdul Hakim will die before Ghulam Ahmad. And it is know that Dr. Abdul Hakim died from lung disease in a pitiable condition. Furthermore, as I already proved, Ghulam Ahmad was saved from the mischief of Dr. Abdul Hakim who proclaimed that the former will die exactly on the date of August 8, 1908.

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In the end, Mirza died in the lifetime of Dr. Abdul Hakim as it happened with many others he debated.  Almost all outlived Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.


Another lie. Ghulam Dastagir Qasuri, who is highly venerated by the Barelwis and Hanafis of the Indian subcontinent, supplicated to Allah to destroy Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in 1896. But the very next year Ghulam Dastagir himself suddenly died, while Mirza Ghulam Ahmad lived for eleven more years.
see my blog for original references http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2014/11/hanafi-mullah-ghulam-dastagir-qasuris.html

Likewise on this very thread I acquainted the readers with John Alexander Dowie and how his miserable death predicted by Ghulam Ahmad was acknowledged by the Sunday Herald of Boston, an American non-Muslim newspaper, which proclaimed on its front page "GREAT IS MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD THE MESSIAH"

Then you can study about the prophecy regarding the Arya Samajist Lekh Ram, whose violent death Ghulam Ahmad not only accurately predicted, but even predicted its exact time as occurring close to the day of Eid. And there are many other examples I can give.