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Qadiyani's

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zaid_ibn_ali

Qadiyani's
« on: July 04, 2017, 10:04:55 PM »
Is the current leader of the ahmediyya/qadiani sect fluent in arabic? Is he a qualified muffasir?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 03:00:11 AM by Farid »

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 10:32:12 PM »
No he's not a scholar

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2017, 10:37:58 PM »
No he's not a scholar

He's meant to be the successor to the messiah isn't he?


ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2017, 10:47:01 PM »

He's meant to be the successor to the messiah isn't he?


He's the successor in the administration of the movement. Since when is the head of a Jama'ah required to be an Aalim or Mufassir? Of course there are trained Ulama and Mufassireen within the Ahmadiyya movement, but the job of the Khalifa is to administer the Jama'ah. It doesn't mean he is Jahil either, he reads the Qur'an, has memorised Suwar, delivers the Khutba, and leads the Salah.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2017, 11:05:47 PM »
Can you name me some if their scholars who are well versef in arabic, tafsir & fiqh?

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2017, 11:14:06 PM »
There have been many. Do you mean living or those who passed away included? There are even Arab scholars within the Ahmadiyya like Muhammad Sharif Odeh.

Rationalist

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 12:08:26 AM »
Its not wonder he did a poor job explaining who the Sabians were. All he did is base his analysis on speculation.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 12:46:57 AM »
There have been many. Do you mean living or those who passed away included? There are even Arab scholars within the Ahmadiyya like Muhammad Sharif Odeh.

Yes who are the living scholars?

Tell me more about this arab scholar, what are his specialities?

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 01:09:49 AM »
Yes who are the living scholars?

Tell me more about this arab scholar, what are his specialities?

May I ask why are you so interested in their living scholars? Muhammad Sharif is the head of the Ahmadiyya community in Kababeer Palestine. As far as I know he specialises in Arabic grammar and Fiqh/Shari'a. He regularly comes on MTA channel to give Arabic lessons.

In Canada where I live, I know of and have personally met with their other scholars like Hadi Ali Chaudhry and Mukhtar Cheema, and also Ansar Reza, though the latter is more of a researcher and debater. An Ahmadiyya scholar is usually a graduate of the Jaamia Ahmadiyya and is referred to as a Murabbi. They complete a 7 year course, which includes mandatory learning of another language for Tabligh. Ahmadiyya community main objective in preparing scholars is for Tabligh and Da'wat ila Allah. That is what they focus on. They also tend to specialise in the Dars (study) of the Holy Qur'an. Some of them write books, but many of the contemporary books published by the Ahmadiyya are not written by individuals but are collaborative projects of a team of scholars.

Check out their English books here
https://www.alislam.org/library/

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 02:26:57 AM »
To me mirza ghulam ahmed never fits the description of a messiah.
He issued a challenge to a sunni that the one who lies dies first. Regardless of the official stance of this challenge, the one who issued it i.e mirza ghulam ahmed died soon after making the challenge & he died from cholera/diarrea.

That seems more befitting of a liar & false claimant than a divine man sent by god.

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 02:42:19 AM »
To me mirza ghulam ahmed never fits the description of a messiah.
He issued a challenge to a sunni that the one who lies dies first. Regardless of the official stance of this challenge, the one who issued it i.e mirza ghulam ahmed died soon after making the challenge & he died from cholera/diarrea.

That seems more befitting of a liar & false claimant than a divine man sent by god.

That's fair enough. But no one, at least not me, is asking you to believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a messiah. I am only presenting him as a very good reformer and someone who was filled with Ilm and Irfan, and surely you can benefit a lot from reading his writings as I have.

Now you are referring to the incident with Sanaullah Amritsari, but I'm sure you have never heard of Ghulam Ahmad's prophecies and contests with Ghulam Dastagir Qasuri, John Alexander Dowie of America and Pundit Lekh Ram (a Hindu Arya). Read about these and you will truly be amazed that they were Signs of God that favored Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:43:32 AM by ZulFiqar »

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2017, 02:51:08 AM »
I'll just briefly show you the heavenly Sign in favor of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani regarding his prediction about John Alexander Dowie. The latter was a false prophet in America who used to ridicule Islam and abuse the name of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. Ghulam Ahmad predicted the miserable end of John Alexander Dowie, who was later exposed as a fraud embezzling donations of his followers, and as a drunkard and immoral person. When he suddenly died, a secular American newspaper, The Sunday Herald (Boston) published on their front page June 23, 1907:

GREAT IS MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD THE MESSIAH: FORETOLD PATHETIC END OF DOWIE



Read about the details here:
https://trueprophecies.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/dowies-prayer-duel-with-ahmad-as/

Farid

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2017, 03:00:40 AM »
Quote
Is the current leader of the ahmediyya/qadiani sect fluent in arabic? Is he a qualified muffasir?

Current leader? Perhaps this should be asked about the mutanabi Mirza Ghulam whose only contribution to Islamic sciences is his claim to being a messiah/mahdi.

I read his book on Shiasm. Pretty weak stuff. I wouldn't publish it on the site, since it is not up to par with our standards.

Hadrami

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2017, 09:05:01 AM »
I'll just briefly show you the heavenly Sign in favor of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani
here we go again, this guy is so not a qadiyani 😂😂

Id say died in his own shit after a mubahala might be a "heavenly Sign" too
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 09:09:53 AM by Hadrami »

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 09:57:42 AM »

here we go again, this guy is so not a qadiyani 😂😂

Id say died in his own shit after a mubahala might be a "heavenly Sign" too

What kind of language is that on an Islamic discussion board? I already proved that there was no mubahala between Ghulam Ahmad and Sanaullah.

The kind of attack you are doing on Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani is exactly the kind of attack Christians, like David Woods, do on the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).

Is it not true that they say the Qur'an says that if the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) were to attribute any saying to Allah that Allah didn't say, then Allah would grab the Prophet by his right hand and sever his jugular vein?

Then they present the Hadith when the Prophet عليه السلام was dying that he told Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha رضى الله عنه I feel the effects of the poisoned meat I ate at Khyber which is cutting my jugular vein.

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2017, 10:55:42 AM »
I read his book on Shiasm. Pretty weak stuff. I wouldn't publish it on the site, since it is not up to par with our standards.

And here is a more balanced and truthful review of the same book by our friend Hani:

Quote from: Hani
I finished "secret of Caliphate" by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of the Qadiyanis.

It's a small book, Sunni in it's contents, consisting of a tiny number of arguments, the arguments are good but popular and known, nothing new, the English translation is eloquent and beautiful.

No need to recommend this book to anybody.

Hadrami

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2017, 11:02:19 AM »
The kind of attack you are doing on Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani is exactly the kind of attack Christians, like David Woods, do on the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
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dont compare a false prophet who died on his poop with a true prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam. Ghulam better be compared with musaylama for all i care
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 11:03:33 AM by Hadrami »

Hani

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2017, 08:46:45 PM »
Quote
Is the current leader of the ahmediyya/qadiani sect fluent in arabic? Is he a qualified muffasir?

Current leader? Perhaps this should be asked about the mutanabi Mirza Ghulam whose only contribution to Islamic sciences is his claim to being a messiah/mahdi.

I read his book on Shiasm. Pretty weak stuff. I wouldn't publish it on the site, since it is not up to par with our standards.

I'd say these are the issues with his book:

A- The whole book is poetic filler content and could have been written in six pages as opposed to fifty.
B- The arguments are strong but they're not new, they're very common and basic.
C- There aren't many arguments in the book.

So as I previously said, I wouldn't recommend it but I wouldn't prohibit anyone from checking it out.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2017, 12:33:38 AM »

GREAT IS MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD THE MESSIAH: FORETOLD PATHETIC END OF DOWIE


What about his Prophecy where he claimed he would write 50 volumes, and ended up writing 5? When asked about it, he said the difference between 50 and 5 is just a dot.

ZulFiqar

Re: Qadiyani's
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2017, 01:10:31 AM »

What about his Prophecy where he claimed he would write 50 volumes, and ended up writing 5? When asked about it, he said the difference between 50 and 5 is just a dot.

He meant that the value of these 5 books is equivalent to 50, similar to the Hadith of Mi'raj where we learn that offering the 5 obligatory Salat is equivalent to offering 50 which was the original command of Allah.

but in fact, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote over 80 books, let alone 50, all for the same purpose of Barahin e Ahmadiyya, whose full title is actually Al Baraheen al Ahmadiyya ala Haqiyyat Kitab Allah al Quraan wan Nubuwwat al Muhammadiya

Another point to keep in mind is that if hypothetically Ghulam Ahmad said he would write 50 books but only ended up writing 5 doesn't mean he is a liar. Otherwise, I'm sure you know the story of when the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, as indicated in Surah al Kahf, that he would get the answer to the questions of the Jewish rabbis "tomorrow" without saying "In Sha Allah", then the Angel didn't come that day, and Allah reprimanded the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and said don't say I will do something tomorrow except that you say alongside "If Allah wills".

So can anyone say that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم lied (God forbid) when he said I will do it tomorrow? All I say is that don't have a double standard and keep everyone to the same standard.