TwelverShia.net Forum

Off Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Layla on November 26, 2018, 02:50:10 PM

Title: Question for Shias
Post by: Layla on November 26, 2018, 02:50:10 PM
After doing matam or crying for Ahlul Bayt do you guys feel depressed or feel like being watched? Do the gem stones you wear help you in anyway?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on November 26, 2018, 03:39:16 PM
After doing matam or crying for Ahlul Bayt do you guys feel depressed or feel like being watched? Do the gem stones you wear help you in anyway?

Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

As a non-Shi'i who has attended quite a few lectures (and the matam thereafter without any participation), allow me to add my two cents.

Being around all the crying and chest-slapping, I reflect on my life (all my past deeds and where I need to be).  Those who cry around me, on the other hand, can (afterwards) sit down and eat a "blessed" meal which I find hard to come to terms with.  After all that wailing and chest-beating, how can anyone eat?  The last thing I would do, when I'm crying or depressed, is eat.  So perhaps they do not feel depressed.  Perhaps they feel freed from carrying a burden; crying can certainly help with that.

As for being watched, they always dim the lights so as to give everyone a chance at some privacy.

Although I could not attend any of the lectures this year (ending my 6 years of attendance streak), I have never felt unwanted.  In fact last year, there were a few Sunnis (including myself) who attended the lectures so diligently that the sheikh/imam delivering the talk opened one of his lectures on a particular night by highlighting the fact that it is incumbent, according to Sunnis, to follow in the footsteps of Ahlul Bayt (ra).  Being an Afghan (like myself), the sheikh recalled how at every Friday prayer in Kabul, he would hear the surrounding Sunni mosques speak highly of the merits of Ahlul Bayt (ra) and announce them openly and explicitly on loudspeakers.

I had mixed reactions; I appreciated him taking the time and effort to clear that up while also being annoyed that such a misconception (that Sunnis do not care about Ahlul Bayt) is prevalent amongst Shias.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: MuslimAnswers on November 27, 2018, 07:51:46 AM
Quote
Being around all the crying and chest-slapping, I reflect on my life (all my past deeds and where I need to be).  Those who cry around me, on the other hand, can (afterwards) sit down and eat a "blessed" meal which I find hard to come to terms with.  After all that wailing and chest-beating, how can anyone eat?  The last thing I would do, when I'm crying or depressed, is eat.  So perhaps they do not feel depressed.  Perhaps they feel freed from carrying a burden; crying can certainly help with that.

What I understand as a Non-12er, some people can envision their existence only as a victimized group; outside that, their anxiety would reach unbearable levels. This is why we see them eating, even listening to music and watching funny videos just before and after their sessions, sometimes even during the sessions - this is why it would be taken as a form of token of ritualized belonging within the community.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on November 27, 2018, 03:24:01 PM
What I understand as a Non-12er, some people can envision their existence only as a victimized group; outside that, their anxiety would reach unbearable levels. This is why we see them eating, even listening to music and watching funny videos just before and after their sessions, sometimes even during the sessions - this is why it would be taken as a form of token of ritualized belonging within the community.

When I was doing my undergrad, I knew this large Shi'i family members of whom were in my study group.  They (mostly girls) would make fun of their male cousins that they go to clubs after they do matam for Imam Hussain (ra)  :-\
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 28, 2018, 09:46:58 AM
After doing matam or crying for Ahlul Bayt do you guys feel depressed or feel like being watched? Do the gem stones you wear help you in anyway?

Very strange replies you've got. But that's freedom of speech for you. OK, you've mentioned two things; 1, Matam and 2, Crying. As far as Matam is concerned certain members of the Shia community do that, so that's to do with the Shias. As far as crying is concerned this has to do with nature and every eye cries. It depends what it takes.

Sunnis as well as Shias cry when they here about the Martyres of Karbala, how they were killed. And also about how the prisoners were treated when they were taken. So your words "do you guys" is or has to be both Sunnis as well as Shias.

Secondly it doesn't matter what it is, accident or incident, it depends on how serious and tragic it is. The more serious and tragic the greater the reaction. Matam isn't a ritual but in fact a reaction. Everyone reacts and behaves differently.

And if it wasn't for Matam and the outcry would the terrible, horrible and tragic incident of Karbala get the attention and recognition that it has regardless?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 28, 2018, 11:54:06 AM
After doing matam or crying for Ahlul Bayt do you guys feel depressed or feel like being watched? Do the gem stones you wear help you in anyway?

Have you ever cried? If you have then would you mind telling us why and how you felt after crying.

The answer to your question, after doing Matam and or crying people feel relieved, they feel somewhat at ease after commemorating such a tragic incident.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 28, 2018, 11:59:07 AM
When I was doing my undergrad, I knew this large Shi'i family members of whom were in my study group.  They (mostly girls) would make fun of their male cousins that they go to clubs after they do matam for Imam Hussain (ra)  :-\

What a cheap quote. If there are a few bad beans in a tin or packet don't blame the entire tin or packet. And what about those mature, learned and educated Sunnis who go out and plan and commit terror offences?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on November 28, 2018, 03:33:40 PM
What a cheap quote. If there are a few bad beans in a tin or packet don't blame the entire tin or packet. And what about those mature, learned and educated Sunnis who go out and plan and commit terror offences?

It is not a quote; I was stating a fact!  I find it hard to believe that people who mourn can turn around and have a feast, literally minutes later apart.  Coupled with the fact that some people go as far as clubbing, I wonder if they truly commemorate and glorify Imam Hussain (ra) or pretend to do just that.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 28, 2018, 03:59:18 PM
It is not a quote; I was stating a fact!  I find it hard to believe that people who mourn can turn around and have a feast, literally minutes later apart.  Coupled with the fact that some people go as far as clubbing, I wonder if they truly commemorate and glorify Imam Hussain (ra) or pretend to do just that.

Well I suppose we must take your word for it. I think your word is good enough and we won't ask for any evidence of any sort to back your claim. Mmmm?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on November 28, 2018, 04:21:41 PM
Well I suppose we must take your word for it. I think your word is good enough and we won't ask for any evidence of any sort to back your claim. Mmmm?

What do you want from me?  An apology because certain Shias ratted on their own cousins?  Or, for the fact that you can eat after having "mourned"?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Layla on November 29, 2018, 12:38:44 AM
Very strange replies you've got. But that's freedom of speech for you. OK, you've mentioned two things; 1, Matam and 2, Crying. As far as Matam is concerned certain members of the Shia community do that, so that's to do with the Shias. As far as crying is concerned this has to do with nature and every eye cries. It depends what it takes.

Sunnis as well as Shias cry when they here about the Martyres of Karbala, how they were killed. And also about how the prisoners were treated when they were taken. So your words "do you guys" is or has to be both Sunnis as well as Shias.

Secondly it doesn't matter what it is, accident or incident, it depends on how serious and tragic it is. The more serious and tragic the greater the reaction. Matam isn't a ritual but in fact a reaction. Everyone reacts and behaves differently.

And if it wasn't for Matam and the outcry would the terrible, horrible and tragic incident of Karbala get the attention and recognition that it has regardless?
You didn’t answer the questions. Please answer them and I’ll explain why I asked them.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Layla on November 29, 2018, 12:43:17 AM
Have you ever cried? If you have then would you mind telling us why and how you felt after crying.

The answer to your question, after doing Matam and or crying people feel relieved, they feel somewhat at ease after commemorating such a tragic incident.
Iceboy I knew you would do this! Instead of answering my questions you start asking questions.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 29, 2018, 01:12:28 AM
Iceboy I knew you would do this! Instead of answering my questions you start asking questions.

What, you love asking but not answering 😊  And your response tells me your asking just to toy around. I knew that as well. 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 29, 2018, 01:15:53 AM
What do you want from me?  An apology because certain Shias ratted on their own cousins?  Or, for the fact that you can eat after having "mourned"?

No. Just start being honest with yourselves. And that is you hold a definite grudge against Shias. Anything positive and useful about Shias. I don't think so. 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 29, 2018, 01:21:53 AM
https://m.facebook.com/notes/ya-ali-as-madad-/matam-proved-in-the-light-of-quran-and-references-from-sunni-hadith/10150403839477692/?__tn__=H-R
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Layla on November 29, 2018, 02:29:50 AM
What, you love asking but not answering 😊  And your response tells me your asking just to toy around. I knew that as well. 😊
I’m not “toying around”. One of the reasons I asked these questions was because several Shias told me they had some unusual things happen to them after doing matam and gem stones affect them.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 29, 2018, 10:10:54 AM
I’m not “toying around”. One of the reasons I asked these questions was because several Shias told me they had some unusual things happen to them after doing matam and gem stones affect them.

I just love how you people come up with such stories. And they always come from people like you. And these stories and tales always seem to be negative. What a coincidence hey.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on November 29, 2018, 02:27:30 PM
You won’t get much from iceman........he still needs to answer clearly on promotion theory since he has failed miserably on divine Imamate theory it’s been months he also tried using imam asims vids to portray something else as well as failing to answer with other brothers in here, I wouldn’t be surprised if this thread turns into a farce all he ever does is endlessly banging on about how Sunnis hate shiites and it’s Sunni agenda spreading lies and he will conclude with........oh the event of saqifa.😉
All hot air and no substance.
This guy is just full of it to be honest.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on November 29, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
No. Just start being honest with yourselves. And that is you hold a definite grudge against Shias. Anything positive and useful about Shias. I don't think so. 😊

If I could get a dollar for every stupid comment you post! 
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 29, 2018, 08:48:06 PM
If I could get a dollar for every stupid comment you post!

Yeh. Just because you said it then it must be a stupid comment. Well you're the judge and it's your house. You're the host and I'm the guest. That's the difference. Ufff the amount of negativity you get about the Shias. Everything that is asked and said is just to try and paint a terrible picture about Shias. What can we say and do to catch out and score. Yallah!
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Layla on November 29, 2018, 08:54:30 PM
I just love how you people come up with such stories. And they always come from people like you. And these stories and tales always seem to be negative. What a coincidence hey.
I didn’t make up any story. If I ask you how your day was you would still say that I am being anti Shia.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 29, 2018, 08:54:47 PM
I’m not “toying around”. One of the reasons I asked these questions was because several Shias told me they had some unusual things happen to them after doing matam and gem stones affect them.

Oh they decided to tell you and not members of their own community. That's strange. If you've experienced something are you going to tell people of the opposite belief and Sect or your own kind?  You really sound desperate to score.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 29, 2018, 08:55:44 PM
I didn’t make up any story. If I ask you how your day was you would still say that I am being anti Shia.

Now that is an exaggeration. All I'm pointing out is that how come it's always 100% negativity about the Shias from your side. Give me one thing positive. Or is there nothing positive about us.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Layla on November 29, 2018, 09:00:18 PM
Now that is an exaggeration.
Well maybe if you didn’t act like a victim all the time I wouldn’t have said that. I asked simple questions that are in no way anti Shi’a yet you still complain.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Layla on November 29, 2018, 09:10:17 PM
Oh they decided to tell you and not members of their own community. That's strange. If you've experienced something are you going to tell people of the opposite belief and Sect or your own kind?  You really sound desperate to score.
They told me because they wanted to. I would tell someone who I trust and if I know that they can help me.
This is not some game that I’m trying to “score”.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 30, 2018, 12:28:04 PM
Well maybe if you didn’t act like a victim all the time I wouldn’t have said that. I asked simple questions that are in no way anti Shi’a yet you still complain.

Either I act like a victim or I'm a victim of a witch hunt. This is a fair comment. Why don't you make a fair comment rather than seeing and putting me in the wrong all the time and every time. Yes you ask simple questions which seem to be NEGATIVE all the time and evertime. Nothing positive ever. Would you call this COINCIDENCE?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on November 30, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
After doing matam or crying for Ahlul Bayt do you guys feel depressed or feel like being watched? Do the gem stones you wear help you in anyway?

"After doing matam or crying for Ahlul Bayt do you guys feel depressed or feel like being watched?"

We neither feel depressed nor do we feel like being watched. Hope this answers the question.

"Do the gem stones you wear help you in anyway?"

I don't wear any gem stones. But those who do include Muhammad s.a.w as well. He used to wear a gem stone called 'Aqeeq'. Hope this answers the question.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on November 30, 2018, 03:16:27 PM
Yeh. Just because you said it then it must be a stupid comment. Well you're the judge and it's your house. You're the host and I'm the guest.

If you weren't such a pretentious, self-righteous turd, maybe we would have gotten along with you.  Judge?  House?  Host?  Whatever it is that you are smoking, shooting up or ingesting, you need to get off it.

Quote
Ufff the amount of negativity you get about the Shias. Everything that is asked and said is just to try and paint a terrible picture about Shias.

I paint nothing; I report what I see and experience.  You cannot take one thing away from me and that is the fact that I have been to more Shi'i mosques more times than you have been to Sunni mosques.  Therefore, my criticism of Shi'i theology stems not from what I read online but what I see and hear at these mosques.

In a nutshell, my family did not raise me religious so I did not know anything outside the five pillars, let alone sectarian differences.  I used to think that Shias preferred Imam Ali (ra) over whoever (didn't even know the first Caliph) and we, "the evil Sunnis", push them away from the main body of Muslims.  I honestly used to believe that we (Sunnis) wrongfully discriminate against the Shias. 

Fast-forward to year 2011 and I found out that the swamp of Shi'i complaints is a lot deeper and far more rancid than I had ever imagined.  It is not that Shias prefer Imam Ali (ra); it is Allah (swt) who ordained it as such (per Shias) and anyone opposing this belief is a kafir.

In conclusion, please stop playing the victim card. 
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 02, 2018, 02:59:37 PM
If you weren't such a pretentious, self-righteous turd, maybe we would have gotten along with you.  Judge?  House?  Host?  Whatever it is that you are smoking, shooting up or ingesting, you need to get off it.

I paint nothing; I report what I see and experience.  You cannot take one thing away from me and that is the fact that I have been to more Shi'i mosques more times than you have been to Sunni mosques.  Therefore, my criticism of Shi'i theology stems not from what I read online but what I see and hear at these mosques.

In a nutshell, my family did not raise me religious so I did not know anything outside the five pillars, let alone sectarian differences.  I used to think that Shias preferred Imam Ali (ra) over whoever (didn't even know the first Caliph) and we, "the evil Sunnis", push them away from the main body of Muslims.  I honestly used to believe that we (Sunnis) wrongfully discriminate against the Shias. 

Fast-forward to year 2011 and I found out that the swamp of Shi'i complaints is a lot deeper and far more rancid than I had ever imagined.  It is not that Shias prefer Imam Ali (ra); it is Allah (swt) who ordained it as such (per Shias) and anyone opposing this belief is a kafir.

In conclusion, please stop playing the victim card.

"If you weren't such a pretentious, self-righteous turd,"

I am not. What you've said and normally say is what we call 'BAKWAS' meaning nonsense. That's all that seems to come out of you. You have a very loose tongue, get a grip on it.

"maybe we would have gotten along with you."

There is no chance of that happening because I'm a Shia and you hate Shias full stop.

"Whatever it is that you are smoking, shooting up or ingesting, you need to get off it."

I'm not on anything so the question of getting off doesn't apply. I'm just putting up with absolute nonsense from an anti Shia who has an extremely loose tongue and terrible Ikhlaq.

"I have been to more Shi'i mosques more times than you have been to Sunni mosques"

If that was the case then you would most definitely been a Shia by now. But that's not the case. The way you talk and speak and how you see and behave is from an extremist. Is from someone who speaks from grudge.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 02, 2018, 09:04:24 PM
If you weren't such a pretentious, self-righteous turd, maybe we would have gotten along with you.  Judge?  House?  Host?  Whatever it is that you are smoking, shooting up or ingesting, you need to get off it.

I paint nothing; I report what I see and experience.  You cannot take one thing away from me and that is the fact that I have been to more Shi'i mosques more times than you have been to Sunni mosques.  Therefore, my criticism of Shi'i theology stems not from what I read online but what I see and hear at these mosques.

In a nutshell, my family did not raise me religious so I did not know anything outside the five pillars, let alone sectarian differences.  I used to think that Shias preferred Imam Ali (ra) over whoever (didn't even know the first Caliph) and we, "the evil Sunnis", push them away from the main body of Muslims.  I honestly used to believe that we (Sunnis) wrongfully discriminate against the Shias. 

Fast-forward to year 2011 and I found out that the swamp of Shi'i complaints is a lot deeper and far more rancid than I had ever imagined.  It is not that Shias prefer Imam Ali (ra); it is Allah (swt) who ordained it as such (per Shias) and anyone opposing this belief is a kafir.

In conclusion, please stop playing the victim card.

"I report what I see and experience"

You only report on grudge and hatred. What you report is absolutely the opposite of what is seen and experienced.

"You cannot take one thing away from me"

You speak based on arrogance and not intellect.

"Therefore, my criticism of Shi'i theology stems not from what I read online but what I see and hear at these mosques"

Your crticisism is only on what you've been told and fed based on gossip and rumours. Because where there is criticism there is also praise. This is just and fair.  All you come out is with absolute negativity and one sided statements.

I don't play any card. Shias are and have been victims from day one along with the Ahle Baith. Read history but with both eyes open. You speak with absolute bitterness and envy with complete hatred. And that isn't based on experience at all. You LEARN from experience not HATE.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 03, 2018, 06:30:32 AM
I am not. What you've said and normally say is what we call 'BAKWAS' meaning nonsense. That's all that seems to come out of you. You have a very loose tongue, get a grip on it.

I know what "bakwaas" means....thank you very much!

Quote
There is no chance of that happening because I'm a Shia and you hate Shias full stop.

An idiotic argument whose conclusion rests on two premises one of which you can never prove.  Knowing how dumb you are, I will let you figure out what I said (on your own).  You will never be able to do so and hence, I will have nothing to respond to.

Quote
I'm not on anything so the question of getting off doesn't apply. I'm just putting up with absolute nonsense from an anti Shia who has an extremely loose tongue and terrible Ikhlaq.

There is "akhlaq" and then there is "ikhlas".  What is "ikhlaq"?

Quote
If that was the case then you would most definitely been a Shia by now. But that's not the case. The way you talk and speak and how you see and behave is from an extremist. Is from someone who speaks from grudge.

Wallaahi, if every Muslim were to read the Qur'an (without outside, unjustified inferences) and then visit Shi'i mosques (even the most moderate ones), he or she would be convinced that Ithna Asharis do not follow orthodox Islam.

From the beginning, I considered Shias to be victims and Sunnis to be on the offensive.  The reason why I got into Shia-Sunni polemics was to reach out to Shias and to show them that we are equal in Islam.  Instead, they turned around to tell me how I have been extremely misguided (kafir according to their theological books) all along.

Quote
You speak based on arrogance and not intellect.

I am arrogant and yet you are the one to say, "You only report on grudge and hatred. What you report is absolutely the opposite of what is seen and experienced."

Like the 12th Imam, you have powers to see into my personal affairs and make absolute claims.  Arrogance much?

Quote
I don't play any card. Shias are and have been victims from day one along with the Ahle Baith.

Well, boo hoo!!!!

Quote
Read history but with both eyes open.

History has no bearing on my faith.  Islamic sources do!

Quote
You speak with absolute bitterness and envy with complete hatred. And that isn't based on experience at all. You LEARN from experience not HATE.

I only learned through experience and all you are left with is to accuse me of lying.  I do not care whether you believe me or not!  I am satisfied knowing I am not upon misguidance.  I gave both sides a fair chance and under the pretext of standing by Ahlul Bayt (ra), the Ithna Ashari package comes with a range of anti-Islamic beliefs and practices.

I would even go as far as saying this: a misguided Sunni, who observes the five pillars without knowing a single thing about Ahlul Bayt (ra) and Sahaba (ra), is a much better Muslim than the extremely-practicing fervent Shi'i.  The former keeps the basics of Islam; the latter goes to extreme misguidance in the name of Ahlul Bayt (ra).
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on December 03, 2018, 12:45:12 PM
"I report what I see and experience"

You only report on grudge and hatred. What you report is absolutely the opposite of what is seen and experienced.

"You cannot take one thing away from me"

You speak based on arrogance and not intellect.

"Therefore, my criticism of Shi'i theology stems not from what I read online but what I see and hear at these mosques"

Your crticisism is only on what you've been told and fed based on gossip and rumours. Because where there is criticism there is also praise. This is just and fair.  All you come out is with absolute negativity and one sided statements.

I don't play any card. Shias are and have been victims from day one along with the Ahle Baith. Read history but with both eyes open. You speak with absolute bitterness and envy with complete hatred. And that isn't based on experience at all. You LEARN from experience not HATE.


Do you even NOTE, READ, NOTICE........that the brother has been to Shiite animal farms and LEARNT from first hand.

The rest is all drivel and accusations posted by you because you cannot answer back in the same way cos you have zero experience with Sunnis apart from ONLINE😂😂😂😂

It’s that simple😉

Your butt hurt with no credible answers......it’s that simple 😉👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 03, 2018, 08:56:01 PM

Do you even NOTE, READ, NOTICE........that the brother has been to Shiite animal farms and LEARNT from first hand.

The rest is all drivel and accusations posted by you because you cannot answer back in the same way cos you have zero experience with Sunnis apart from ONLINE😂😂😂😂

It’s that simple😉

Your butt hurt with no credible answers......it’s that simple 😉👍

Ok, so which farm is he and you from then? And what breed of animals are you 😊👍If my butt hurts then why is he jumping up and down 😊👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 03, 2018, 09:14:41 PM
I know what "bakwaas" means....thank you very much!

An idiotic argument whose conclusion rests on two premises one of which you can never prove.  Knowing how dumb you are, I will let you figure out what I said (on your own).  You will never be able to do so and hence, I will have nothing to respond to.

There is "akhlaq" and then there is "ikhlas".  What is "ikhlaq"?

Wallaahi, if every Muslim were to read the Qur'an (without outside, unjustified inferences) and then visit Shi'i mosques (even the most moderate ones), he or she would be convinced that Ithna Asharis do not follow orthodox Islam.

From the beginning, I considered Shias to be victims and Sunnis to be on the offensive.  The reason why I got into Shia-Sunni polemics was to reach out to Shias and to show them that we are equal in Islam.  Instead, they turned around to tell me how I have been extremely misguided (kafir according to their theological books) all along.

I am arrogant and yet you are the one to say, "You only report on grudge and hatred. What you report is absolutely the opposite of what is seen and experienced."

Like the 12th Imam, you have powers to see into my personal affairs and make absolute claims.  Arrogance much?

Well, boo hoo!!!!

History has no bearing on my faith.  Islamic sources do!

I only learned through experience and all you are left with is to accuse me of lying.  I do not care whether you believe me or not!  I am satisfied knowing I am not upon misguidance.  I gave both sides a fair chance and under the pretext of standing by Ahlul Bayt (ra), the Ithna Ashari package comes with a range of anti-Islamic beliefs and practices.

I would even go as far as saying this: a misguided Sunni, who observes the five pillars without knowing a single thing about Ahlul Bayt (ra) and Sahaba (ra), is a much better Muslim than the extremely-practicing fervent Shi'i.  The former keeps the basics of Islam; the latter goes to extreme misguidance in the name of Ahlul Bayt (ra).

"I know what "bakwaas" means....thank you very much!"

Well if you do then I wonder when you are going to get a grip on that filthy tongue of yours. Or do you have no control over it.

"An idiotic argument whose conclusion rests on two premises"

Then stop brining up idiotic arguments and start making some sense rather than silly tales just to gain weight.

"one of which you can never prove"

What's the point of the discussion if you've already made up your mind to begin with? I told you that you've got a mindset. You speak with grudge and certainly not from any kind of experience what so ever.

"Knowing how dumb you are"

It takes one to know one 😊


You said, "I will let you figure out what I said (on your own)" Then you say, "You will never be able to do so"

See the contradiction. This is what you are, nothing but all talk. You're just a immature guy, with a loose temper and a big mouth.

"Wallaahi, if every Muslim were to read the Qur'an (without outside, unjustified inferences) and then visit Shi'i mosques (even the most moderate ones), he or she would be convinced that Ithna Asharis do not follow orthodox Islam"

I just wonder what the hell you've experienced and found out about us that the rest of us and the Ahle Sunnah have missed out completely.

"the Ithna Ashari package comes with a range of anti-Islamic beliefs and practices"

And your package comes with double standards, elements of hypocrisy, twisting and changing of Principles to suit your belief and desire.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on December 04, 2018, 10:34:46 AM
Ok, so which farm is he and you from then? And what breed of animals are you 😊👍If my butt hurts then why is he jumping up and down 😊👍

Lol your reply back is enough that ........YOU ARE BUTT HURT😜👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 04, 2018, 12:21:34 PM
Lol your reply back is enough that ........YOU ARE BUTT HURT😜👍

And I wonder why you sound as though you're  aching 😀😀😀
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 04, 2018, 03:35:08 PM

Do you even NOTE, READ, NOTICE........that the brother has been to Shiite animal farms and LEARNT from first hand.

Bro, that is a bit too much!  If anything, I thank them for my experiences.  No one repelled me from Shiaism as much as Shias did (and still do).  And, as I have stated before, I consider them Muslim and I always maintain that no Shia is greater than Sunni and vice-versa except by his or her faith and good deeds.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 04, 2018, 03:50:41 PM
Well if you do then I wonder when you are going to get a grip on that filthy tongue of yours. Or do you have no control over it.

You keep referring to me as ill-mannered and having a filthy tongue.  For what I regretfully said about you a few months ago, I am trying to take all your shots as reparation for that damage.  However, you are pushing your luck now.

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Then stop brining up idiotic arguments and start making some sense rather than silly tales just to gain weight.

These are not tales, idiot!  You have depictions of Imams (ra) in your masaajid.  I can bring you those pictures along with the masjid name and address (for you to verify). 

At every Shi'i mosque during every Muharram, they say Fatima (ra) is here to bless the gathering.  Well, there are about 3 to 5 Shi'i mosques (that I know of) in the Washington Metropolitan Area.  They all claim the same (that Fatima salaamullah-alayha is blessing those in attendance).  Now you tell me how is Fatima (ra) omnipresent?  Don't get mad at me if your beliefs rival Allah's (swt) attributes and your helplessness to account for them drives me away from them.

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You speak with grudge and certainly not from any kind of experience what so ever.

My next post, in-sha-Allah, will prove you wrong.  I never intended to broadcast it but I have this clip from a Shi'i mosque in which children are taking part in a passion-story play, recreating the scenes of Karbala.  I will upload them and you can watch the ridiculousness.

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It takes one to know one 😊

One more emoticon; the 12-year old girl theory, lol!

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See the contradiction. This is what you are, nothing but all talk. You're just a immature guy, with a loose temper and a big mouth.

There is no contradiction except it proves your stupidity.  To say that I will let you figure it out is not to say that you will be able to.  Your response actually proves that my comment twisted your mind more than I had anticipated.

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I just wonder what the hell you've experienced and found out about us that the rest of us and the Ahle Sunnah have missed out completely.

Trust me, more of us are finding the truth now.  We got on the dawah path late; we were busy giving dawah to Jews, Christians, Hindus, atheists, etc.  However, with truth on our side, better late than never.  And your debaters are finding that planet Earth is too small for them to hide in.

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And your package comes with double standards, elements of hypocrisy, twisting and changing of Principles to suit your belief and desire.

You cannot prove any of it.  I, on the other hand, can prove everything I have said from your books and my own personal experiences.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 04, 2018, 04:08:06 PM
You keep referring to me as ill-mannered and having a filthy tongue.  For what I regretfully said about you a few months ago, I am trying to take all your shots as reparation for that damage.  However, you are pushing your luck now.

These are not tales, idiot!  You have depictions of Imams (ra) in your masaajid.  I can bring you those pictures along with the masjid name and address (for you to verify). 

At every Shi'i mosque during every Muharram, they say Fatima (ra) is here to bless the gathering.  Well, there are about 3 to 5 Shi'i mosques (that I know of) in the Washington Metropolitan Area.  They all claim the same (that Fatima salaamullah-alayha is blessing those in attendance).  Now you tell me how is Fatima (ra) omnipresent?  Don't get mad at me if your beliefs rival Allah's (swt) attributes and your helplessness to account for them drives me away from them.

My next post, in-sha-Allah, will prove you wrong.  I never intended to broadcast it but I have this clip from a Shi'i mosque in which children are taking part in a passion-story play, recreating the scenes of Karbala.  I will upload them and you can watch the ridiculousness.

One more emoticon; the 12-year old girl theory, lol!

There is no contradiction except it proves your stupidity.  To say that I will let you figure it out is not to say that you will be able to.  Your response actually proves that my comment twisted your mind more than I had anticipated.

Trust me, more of us are finding the truth now.  We got on the dawah path late; we were busy giving dawah to Jews, Christians, Hindus, atheists, etc.  However, with truth on our side, better late than never.  And your debaters are finding that planet Earth is too small for them to hide in.

You cannot prove any of it.  I, on the other hand, can prove everything I have said from your books and my own personal experiences.

The past is the past. You said something which you shouldn't have but you apologised for it. As far as I'm concerned that's done with. I'm not referring to that but how you're coming across constantly. Allow me to gather and point it out.

Here's a fresh one from your post #37,  "These are not tales, idiot!"

Post #30, "Knowing how dumb you are,"
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 04, 2018, 05:21:47 PM
Muslim 720,

post #27,

"If you weren't such a pretentious, self-righteous turd,"

Post #30,

"Knowing how dumb you are,"

Post #37

"These are not tales, idiot!"

The above are just from this newly started thread only.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 05, 2018, 03:16:59 PM
Muslim 720,

post #27,

"If you weren't such a pretentious, self-righteous turd,"

Post #30,

"Knowing how dumb you are,"

Post #37

"These are not tales, idiot!"

The above are just from this newly started thread only.


I can make a new thread asking members here to vote.  Of course you will play the victim card, that you are being singled out as a Shi'i, but I have no doubt in my mind that more than 90% of the votes will declare you an "idiot", "dumb", "pretentious self-righteous turd" of an individual.

All you do is tell us that we are wrong but can never prove it.  You tell us that we hate Shias but you can never quote our hatred.  Do you even know the difference between "hatred" and "criticism"?  We criticize Shia theology; don't know how you equate criticism with hate!
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 05, 2018, 04:22:00 PM
I can make a new thread asking members here to vote.  Of course you will play the victim card, that you are being singled out as a Shi'i, but I have no doubt in my mind that more than 90% of the votes will declare you an "idiot", "dumb", "pretentious self-righteous turd" of an individual.

All you do is tell us that we are wrong but can never prove it.  You tell us that we hate Shias but you can never quote our hatred.  Do you even know the difference between "hatred" and "criticism"?  We criticize Shia theology; don't know how you equate criticism with hate!

See what I mean, rather than admitting where you are wrong and at fault you come back with counter arguments. Why? Because this is an anti Shia website and all the haters of Shia are more than welcome to say and behave as they please. No check and balance. So why wouldn't you carry on.

Asking the members to vote? Of course, all are going to vote against me because they all will be anti Shia. Tell me otherwise. There will be no point of the vote apart from you patting yourself on the back and being amused.

I don't tell you that you're wrong it's actually you infact this entire site working on proving us wrong everywhere and in every way. You don't criticise but just hate. Why? Because where there is criticism there is also praise. But do we hear and see that from you?

If you are wrong here then you must be right or something must be right about you somewhere. Do you believe in that? Not when it comes to us.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on December 06, 2018, 10:34:44 AM
Ok, so which farm is he and you from then? And what breed of animals are you 😊👍If my butt hurts then why is he jumping up and down 😊👍

I notice it’s YOU who jumps up and down and CANNOT even defend what you say or mean.😜

Only in farms are you bred like sheeple but when released..........YOU are the prime example.😉
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 06, 2018, 03:14:34 PM
See what I mean, rather than admitting where you are wrong and at fault you come back with counter arguments.

How am I wrong?  You are an imbecile who cannot prove anything he believes or anything he claims against us.

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Asking the members to vote? Of course, all are going to vote against me because they all will be anti Shia.

I already called it!  Way to be original!

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Tell me otherwise. There will be no point of the vote apart from you patting yourself on the back and being amused.

I am not amused; I am saddened that a blind individual like yourself is counted among the Muslims.  In the other thread, for example, you did not bother to watch an entire 12-minute long video only because it mocked Zain, Raza and Syed Ali.  That did not sit well with you but all the kufr ascribed to Imam Ali (ra) and Ahlul Bayt (ra) did not draw your condemnation. 

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You don't criticise but just hate. Why? Because where there is criticism there is also praise. But do we hear and see that from you?

You have never read me praise Shias?  You are a liar!
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 06, 2018, 04:17:39 PM
I notice it’s YOU who jumps up and down and CANNOT even defend what you say or mean.😜

Only in farms are you bred like sheeple but when released..........YOU are the prime example.😉

What have you answered or addressed, tell me? You keep bringing in IRRELEVANT STUFF to the thread and topic. As far as farms and sheep are concerned, I'm not going to reply to that because I'm not of your low level. You stay there and remain there. I ain't coming down to your low level to play tit for tat with you. Find someone of your nature and level for that.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 06, 2018, 04:40:41 PM
How am I wrong?  You are an imbecile who cannot prove anything he believes or anything he claims against us.

I already called it!  Way to be original!

I am not amused; I am saddened that a blind individual like yourself is counted among the Muslims.  In the other thread, for example, you did not bother to watch an entire 12-minute long video only because it mocked Zain, Raza and Syed Ali.  That did not sit well with you but all the kufr ascribed to Imam Ali (ra) and Ahlul Bayt (ra) did not draw your condemnation. 

You have never read me praise Shias?  You are a liar!

And you are an absolute HATE MONGER and a complete PROPAGANDIST. And here's the evidence, because you can't find anything positive, useful or right about us.

You come up with counter arguments rather than answering and addressing. Then you come up with tales and stories that anyone can make up and you call it YOUR EXPERIENCE.

There is not one single thing that you've said about us which is accurate or true. You bring in silly clips or what ever else you can find and try and prove that this is what the Shia ideology and community is about. This is how desperate you are.

You boys start a thread by selecting a topic then you start bringing in IRRELEVANT STUFF and COUNTER ARGUMENTS because you can't answer and address. Hey, it's your site and it's your show. The admins and mods have to let you carry on and be otherwise there is no show.

Be honest with yourselves, you are nothing but propagandists. Why? Here's the evidence once again;

You pick up bits and pieces from here and there be it clips or what ever and you try to prove that this is the Shia ideology and community.

There is not one single thing that you can find which is positive, useful and right about us.

Where there is criticism there is also praise, where there is condemnation there is also honour, where there is wrong there is also right and where there is badness there is also goodness be it an individual, a group or party, a sect or faith, a regime or leadership or a country or community.

How do you view us? With absolute crticisism and condemnation. You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about us. And that is because of absolute hatred and nothing else.

You and your kind  have a grudge against us and you need to look for any excuse you can find to camouflage that. This has been going on since the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on December 06, 2018, 09:38:33 PM
What have you answered or addressed, tell me? You keep bringing in IRRELEVANT STUFF to the thread and topic. As far as farms and sheep are concerned, I'm not going to reply to that because I'm not of your low level. You stay there and remain there. I ain't coming down to your low level to play tit for tat with you. Find someone of your nature and level for that.

You already replied twice to the farm comment, your iq is quiet low I must admit.😉👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 07, 2018, 03:16:04 AM
You already replied twice to the farm comment, your iq is quiet low I must admit.😉👍

IT'S YOUR CIRCUS, IT'S YOUR SHOW. SO CARRY ON! 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 07, 2018, 03:22:20 PM
And you are an absolute HATE MONGER and a complete PROPAGANDIST. And here's the evidence, because you can't find anything positive, useful or right about us.

If I cannot find anything positive to say about you, does it necessarily mean that I am hate-monger?  It could be that there really isn't anything positive about you.  Language is so important.

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You come up with counter arguments rather than answering and addressing. Then you come up with tales and stories that anyone can make up and you call it YOUR EXPERIENCE.

I come up with counter-arguments because your arguments are easily countered.  Thank you for admitting that!  And you can cast doubt on my experiences but you can never take them away or discredit them.  I know it burns you to know that I was on the fence and the most convincing evidences (that Sunni Islam is true Islam) came from my experiences at Shi'i mosques.

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There is not one single thing that you've said about us which is accurate or true. You bring in silly clips or what ever else you can find and try and prove that this is what the Shia ideology and community is about. This is how desperate you are.

On one hand you say nothing I have said is accurate or true and on the other, you admit that I bring clips.  Well, who is featured in those clips, dimwit?  Shias!  And what do they utter in those clips?  Sheer kufr!  You have to take your concerns to them; don't waste my time.

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Hey, it's your site and it's your show.

It is our show; it is our circus (as you said in another topic) and knowing that you are not enjoying the show (meaning, you are not a spectator), you must be the monkey then.  The one with the funny tricks!

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Be honest with yourselves, you are nothing but propagandists. Why? Here's the evidence once again;

You pick up bits and pieces from here and there be it clips or what ever and you try to prove that this is the Shia ideology and community.

That is evidence?  Do you even know what evidence means?  Since you are extremely dumb, allow me to educate you more!  "You are nothing but propagandists" is your conclusion and "you pick up bits and pieces....." is your premise thereby making it your argument.  That is not evidence.  That is your argument (without proof), in other words, not evidence.  Argument = premise + conclusion!  You are welcome, you ungrateful turd!

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Where there is criticism there is also praise, where there is condemnation there is also honour, where there is wrong there is also right and where there is badness there is also goodness be it an individual, a group or party, a sect or faith, a regime or leadership or a country or community.

Where there is badness, there is also goodness....would you apply that to Muawiya?  You won't!  In that case, as per your own judgment, you are a propagandist and a hate monger because while according to you there is goodness and badness in an individual, you only see it one way when it comes to Muawiya.

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How do you view us? With absolute crticisism and condemnation. You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about us. And that is because of absolute hatred and nothing else.

How do you view Banu Umayyah?  With absolute criticism and condemnation.  You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about them.  And that is because of your absolute hatred and nothing else.

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You and your kind  have a grudge against us and you need to look for any excuse you can find to camouflage that. This has been going on since the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

Camouflage?  I thought taqiyyah was 9/10 of your religion.  I thought the Imams (ra) practiced taqiyyah, in other words, camouflaged their beliefs whereas the "evil Sunni rulers" were openly disobeying Islam and crushing the opposition :/
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on December 07, 2018, 03:28:05 PM
IT'S YOUR CIRCUS, IT'S YOUR SHOW. SO CARRY ON! 😊

AND YOUR THE MAIN ATTRACTION IN MY SHOW😂👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 07, 2018, 11:09:18 PM
If I cannot find anything positive to say about you, does it necessarily mean that I am hate-monger?  It could be that there really isn't anything positive about you.  Language is so important.

I come up with counter-arguments because your arguments are easily countered.  Thank you for admitting that!  And you can cast doubt on my experiences but you can never take them away or discredit them.  I know it burns you to know that I was on the fence and the most convincing evidences (that Sunni Islam is true Islam) came from my experiences at Shi'i mosques.

On one hand you say nothing I have said is accurate or true and on the other, you admit that I bring clips.  Well, who is featured in those clips, dimwit?  Shias!  And what do they utter in those clips?  Sheer kufr!  You have to take your concerns to them; don't waste my time.

It is our show; it is our circus (as you said in another topic) and knowing that you are not enjoying the show (meaning, you are not a spectator), you must be the monkey then.  The one with the funny tricks!

That is evidence?  Do you even know what evidence means?  Since you are extremely dumb, allow me to educate you more!  "You are nothing but propagandists" is your conclusion and "you pick up bits and pieces....." is your premise thereby making it your argument.  That is not evidence.  That is your argument (without proof), in other words, not evidence.  Argument = premise + conclusion!  You are welcome, you ungrateful turd!

Where there is badness, there is also goodness....would you apply that to Muawiya?  You won't!  In that case, as per your own judgment, you are a propagandist and a hate monger because while according to you there is goodness and badness in an individual, you only see it one way when it comes to Muawiya.

How do you view Banu Umayyah?  With absolute criticism and condemnation.  You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about them.  And that is because of your absolute hatred and nothing else.

Camouflage?  I thought taqiyyah was 9/10 of your religion.  I thought the Imams (ra) practiced taqiyyah, in other words, camouflaged their beliefs whereas the "evil Sunni rulers" were openly disobeying Islam and crushing the opposition :/

"If I cannot find anything positive to say about you, does it necessarily mean that I am hate-monger?  It could be that there really isn't anything positive about you.  Language is so important"

Point 1, 'DOES IT NECESSARILY MEAN...' and point 2, IT COULD BE THAT THERE...' 
It clearly sounds you go by assumption. And I go by reality and facts.

And "Language is so important" Well yes it is. Take a look at how filthy yours is. You come up with counter arguments because you are too afraid to answer and address. That is why you come up with counter arguments.

"And you can cast doubt on my experiences but you can never take them away or discredit them"

I cast doubt on your tales because there is no credibility in what you put forward. Anybody can come up with such. In fact there is no truth in your tales since I am a member of that community. You know my community better than me. It's like I know your house better than you.

"I know it burns you to know that I was on the fence and the most convincing evidences (that Sunni Islam is true Islam) came from my experiences at Shi'i mosques."

Nothing burns or bothers me. You should know that by now. I am a very calm and  composed individual with a level head. Sunni Islam is the true Islam. Which Sunni Islam are we talking about. You have many schools of thought and many sects with many political movements, some accusing others of Kufr.

"On one hand you say nothing I have said is accurate or true and on the other, you admit that I bring clips.  Well, who is featured in those clips, dimwit?  Shias!  And what do they utter in those clips?  Sheer kufr!  You have to take your concerns to them; don't waste my time"

Like I said before don't bring in bits and pieces and start giving it your own meaning and understanding or trying to prove that this is what the Shia community and faith is all about based on bits and pieces. Is the Saudi regime what the Ahle Sunnah or what your Islamic Caliphate is all about? If we started saying YES then?

"you must be the monkey then", "you ungrateful turd!"

You can say what ever you want. Language is very important and I can see that. 😊

"you only see it one way when it comes to Muawiya."

No I don't. Can you prove that? Well you haven't proven anything till now so what can I expect. COUNTER ARGUMENTS 😊

"How do you view Banu Umayyah?  With absolute criticism and condemnation"

If that's what you think then you're absolutely wrong.

"I thought taqiyyah was 9/10 of your religion.  I thought the Imams (ra) practiced taqiyyah,"

You THOUGHT and you THOUGHT? Stop thinking and assuming because that's all you do. Do some research and go by reality and facts. 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 09, 2018, 04:11:57 AM
Point 1, 'DOES IT NECESSARILY MEAN...' and point 2, IT COULD BE THAT THERE...' 
It clearly sounds you go by assumption. And I go by reality and facts.

I am not surprised that issuing statements is akin "reality and facts" in your world.  It is no wonder that you write Fadak for Fatima (ra) when all the "reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side.  You are doing something very similar here; taking your own claim as factual reality.

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And "Language is so important" Well yes it is. Take a look at how filthy yours is.

Clearly you did not understand my conclusive statement that "language is so important".  It is not your fault; you were raised on hate-speech, perhaps they even made you take part in passion-story plays revolving around the events of Karbala.  I wonder if they dressed you to play the role of one of the soldiers of Yazeed. 

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You come up with counter arguments because you are too afraid to answer and address. That is why you come up with counter arguments.

Logical fallacies and fairy-tale beliefs are not answered; they are countered. 

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I cast doubt on your tales because there is no credibility in what you put forward. Anybody can come up with such. In fact there is no truth in your tales since I am a member of that community. You know my community better than me. It's like I know your house better than you.

When did I say that I know your community better than you?  All I am saying is that I know your community, and its beliefs, more than the average Sunni so your cop-out tactic that "Sunnis do not know much about us" does nothing for you in my case. 

Every so often you see Shias requesting Sunnis not to assume anything about them and to give them a chance (by sitting in one of their majaalis).  Well, I am already beyond that so your cop-out will not work against me.

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Nothing burns or bothers me. You should know that by now. I am a very calm and  composed individual with a level head. Sunni Islam is the true Islam. Which Sunni Islam are we talking about. You have many schools of thought and many sects with many political movements, some accusing others of Kufr.

Alhamdulilah, we have many schools of thought, most of them differing on matters of fiqh.  To answer your question, all Sunni schools follow the true Islam (when it comes to fundamentals).  The most misguided Sunni school is more upon Islam than your most looked up to and most subscribed to Shi'i marja'.

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Like I said before don't bring in bits and pieces and start giving it your own meaning and understanding or trying to prove that this is what the Shia community and faith is all about based on bits and pieces.

You lowlife scum!  What other meaning or understanding can you ascribe to a statement which says that Imam Ali (ra) is sitting upon The Throne?  That he created the Earth, etc?  That he will judge us in the Hereafter?

This your third or fifth post mentioning that video clip without condemning any of the statements uttered in those videos.  And then you wonder why some Sunnis call you kafir.

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Is the Saudi regime what the Ahle Sunnah or what your Islamic Caliphate is all about? If we started saying YES then?

There is no Caliphate in Saudi Arabia and Caliphate isn't from the foundations of our religion.

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You can say what ever you want. Language is very important and I can see that. 😊

Exactly!  If you had mastered a language, you would not have been hired as a monkey at a circus.

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No I don't.

Very good!  Since you do not see it one-way when it comes to Muawiya, we can both agree that he did good and bad things.  As dumb as you are, you are starting to recognize the Sunni stance to be true. 

I am glad you have a newfound liking and appreciation for Muawiya.

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If that's what you think then you're absolutely wrong.

Surprised me again!  Alhamdulilah...you agree that Banu Umayyah, along with bad things, did good things.  Falling right into the trap, lol.

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You THOUGHT and you THOUGHT? Stop thinking and assuming because that's all you do. Do some research and go by reality and facts. 😊

Choke on this!

"Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah (dissimulation), hence one who does not dissimulate has no religion." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.110)
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 09, 2018, 02:18:19 PM
I am not surprised that issuing statements is akin "reality and facts" in your world.  It is no wonder that you write Fadak for Fatima (ra) when all the "reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side.  You are doing something very similar here; taking your own claim as factual reality.

Clearly you did not understand my conclusive statement that "language is so important".  It is not your fault; you were raised on hate-speech, perhaps they even made you take part in passion-story plays revolving around the events of Karbala.  I wonder if they dressed you to play the role of one of the soldiers of Yazeed. 

Logical fallacies and fairy-tale beliefs are not answered; they are countered. 

When did I say that I know your community better than you?  All I am saying is that I know your community, and its beliefs, more than the average Sunni so your cop-out tactic that "Sunnis do not know much about us" does nothing for you in my case. 

Every so often you see Shias requesting Sunnis not to assume anything about them and to give them a chance (by sitting in one of their majaalis).  Well, I am already beyond that so your cop-out will not work against me.

Alhamdulilah, we have many schools of thought, most of them differing on matters of fiqh.  To answer your question, all Sunni schools follow the true Islam (when it comes to fundamentals).  The most misguided Sunni school is more upon Islam than your most looked up to and most subscribed to Shi'i marja'.

You lowlife scum!  What other meaning or understanding can you ascribe to a statement which says that Imam Ali (ra) is sitting upon The Throne?  That he created the Earth, etc?  That he will judge us in the Hereafter?

This your third or fifth post mentioning that video clip without condemning any of the statements uttered in those videos.  And then you wonder why some Sunnis call you kafir.

There is no Caliphate in Saudi Arabia and Caliphate isn't from the foundations of our religion.

Exactly!  If you had mastered a language, you would not have been hired as a monkey at a circus.

Very good!  Since you do not see it one-way when it comes to Muawiya, we can both agree that he did good and bad things.  As dumb as you are, you are starting to recognize the Sunni stance to be true. 

I am glad you have a newfound liking and appreciation for Muawiya.

Surprised me again!  Alhamdulilah...you agree that Banu Umayyah, along with bad things, did good things.  Falling right into the trap, lol.

Choke on this!

"Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah (dissimulation), hence one who does not dissimulate has no religion." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.110)

"I am not surprised that issuing statements is akin "reality and facts" in your world"

My statements are based on reality and facts and logic and reason. Yours are on assumption and theories or tales and stories, which have no credibility what so ever. You can call it experience or what ever you like. But the things you say and put forward as experience is far from reality.

"It is no wonder that you write Fadak for Fatima (ra) when all the "reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side.

Fadak, Fatima and Abu Bakr? There you go again and see what I mean. You bring in irrelevant stuff which has got nothing to do with the thread and what we're discussing. It definitely looks and sounds like Shiaism is really eating you up inside out.

"reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side"

😀 Gosh, really. What world are you living in. How on earth did you come to that conclusion. Your entire faith evolves around the Shaykhain and what they did and got up to after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

All you do is try to protect and defend them no matter how many twist and turns you need to do or how dishonest you have to become.

"It is not your fault; you were raised on hate-speech"

Can you back this up? I don't think you can. Infact you are raised on hate-speech and I will back this up. And here is the evidence;

"Choke on this!" "As dumb as you are",
"If you had mastered a language, you would not have been hired as a monkey at a circus" "You lowlife scum!" And all this just in one of your posts.

"perhaps they even made you take part in passion-story plays"

PERHAPS? It's either PERHAPS or ASSUME or PROBABLY or YOU THINK etc. That's all I seem to be getting from you.

"Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah"

Is it? So you know my religion better than me?

"Falling right into the trap, lol."

I'm not falling into any trap. Just being honest. Something you can't do. Trap? Are you discussing or hunting? 😊

"you are starting to recognize the Sunni stance to be true."

The Sunni stance has elements of hypocrisy and double standards on various matters. You want to talk about it then I willing to back this up. Unlike you.

"Logical fallacies and fairy-tale beliefs"

This is exactly what your so called experience and information about us is based on.

"Caliphate isn't from the foundations of our religion"

Then why are you so hellbent in protecting it?

"This your third or fifth post mentioning that video clip without condemning any of the statements uttered in those videos.  And then you wonder why some Sunnis call you kafir"

That video doesn't represent the Shia faith and belief nor the Shia community at large. What's in it, talk about it and I'll be more than happy to discuss it. Talk about it. Don't grudge about it.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 10, 2018, 01:42:15 AM
My statements are based on reality and facts and logic and reason.

...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

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Fadak, Fatima and Abu Bakr? There you go again and see what I mean. You bring in irrelevant stuff which has got nothing to do with the thread and what we're discussing.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

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It definitely looks and sounds like Shiaism is really eating you up inside out.

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

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😀 Gosh, really. What world are you living in. How on earth did you come to that conclusion.

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

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Your entire faith evolves around the Shaykhain and what they did and got up to after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

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All you do is try to protect and defend them no matter how many twist and turns you need to do or how dishonest you have to become.

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

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Is it? So you know my religion better than me?

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

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I'm not falling into any trap. Just being honest. Something you can't do. Trap? Are you discussing or hunting? 😊

Hunting!

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The Sunni stance has elements of hypocrisy and double standards on various matters. You want to talk about it then I willing to back this up. Unlike you.

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

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Then why are you so hellbent in protecting it?

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

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That video doesn't represent the Shia faith and belief nor the Shia community at large. What's in it, talk about it and I'll be more than happy to discuss it.

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 10, 2018, 08:56:48 AM
...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

Hunting!

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?

"and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs"

We've done much more than defend and prove since we've got people desperately working against us and our belief. No community or faith such as us as ever received so much propaganda and resistance than us.

"The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!"

First of all that's not the point. You're still bringing in irrelevant stuff to the thread and what is being discussed. Still no excuse.  Secondly baseless claim? Failed?  You're blowing your own trumpet. Prove it. All you do is a hit and run job. That's what most of you do.

"Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!"

Nothing eats me up. Can't you see by the amount of filth you spill on me. Seen any reaction from me? Not the slightest. And you won't get one. Why? You know that. It's where I take my faith from and where you take yours from. Attitude and behaviour tells a lot about a person.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 10, 2018, 09:56:34 AM
...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

Hunting!

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?

"On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak"

The Imams don't get personal and most certainly do not use authority and power to set personal or desired scores. The Caliphs and other individuals did that.

And  if you call this winning and what the Imams did and how they acted and behaved as loosing then goodluck to you and your thinking.

"Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak"

I disagree with that. And you can carry on believing in it.

"We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning"

It doesn't matter whether it's Abu Bakr, Umar, Muawiya or anyone else, if you believe getting your way and doing what ever it takes to get it is winning then goodluck with your thinking. Subhanallah 😊

"I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!"

They pushed to get their way. And if anyone opposed them then Muawiya would have been nothing compared to them.

The ones who differed with the Shaykhain or those in authority were patient, tolerant and farsighted be it Ali, Fatima, Hassan or Hussain. But the ones who differed with Ali and Hassan when they were in authority what did they do? That is Muawiya, Aisha, Talah etc?

You don't have a clue what you're on about, do you. Because you speak with grudge.

"You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system"

Mind your language boy. Illogical system hey. You talk wind.

"So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol."

If you think that we believe they never ever did anything right or good and there wasn't a decent bone in their body then you need to think again. That's how you think especially about us.

"I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system"

I never said Caliphate was an evil system because Adam was a Caliph. He was part of the Caliphate system. All I'm saying is the decision made in Saqifa wasn't legitimate. And you don't have a method and procedure when it comes to Shura on choosing a leader.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 10, 2018, 12:34:11 PM
...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

Hunting!

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?

"Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!"

I've always answered and addressed. Rather than constantly accusing me point out what I haven't answered or addressed. Our theology is firm and straightforward where as yours is full of double standards and twist and turns. You can't stick to one thing because the Sahaba didn't stick to one thing. That's where your problem is.

"Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?"

If I met them I would like to ask them to get to know more about why. I'm not like you since I don't hold a grudge to begin with.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 10, 2018, 03:31:12 PM
We've done much more than defend and prove since we've got people desperately working against us and our belief.

Indeed you defend and prove your theology in alleged debates that are oft-repeated (as feel-good stories) within your gatherings.  Outside your gatherings, in fact within your own mosques, when confronted by someone with a bit of knowledge, your wheels come off.

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No community or faith such as us as ever received so much propaganda and resistance than us.

Salaavot!  Keep telling yourself that because there is no progress and the hidden one ain't coming out.

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First of all that's not the point. You're still bringing in irrelevant stuff to the thread and what is being discussed.

It is quite relevant the way I see it.

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All you do is a hit and run job. That's what most of you do.

Hit-and-run is still better than what the hidden one is doing.  He is just hiding; won't even come out for one hit.  The legacy left behind by Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) still shakes him to his core, lol.

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Nothing eats me up. Can't you see by the amount of filth you spill on me. Seen any reaction from me? Not the slightest.

That is because, among many other things, you lack knowledge and do not possess the testicular fortitude to even begin a discussion.  You are quite happy with these petty back-n-forths and I entertain you because I like to see how shallow your understanding of Islam is and how deep your ignorance is.

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The Imams don't get personal and most certainly do not use authority and power to set personal or desired scores. The Caliphs and other individuals did that.

Imams (ra) don't get personal?  But you claim Fadak was their right?  They would not even claim their own right?  As said before, I refuse to follow such incompetent leaders under the flagship of a ridiculous concept (Imamah).

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And  if you call this winning and what the Imams did and how they acted and behaved as loosing then goodluck to you and your thinking.

This is winning!  Ordinary people were able to outsmart and outwork superhuman individuals, who were Divinely-Appointed, Divinely-Aided and Divinely-Guided, at every turn.  With or without worldly powers, the Imams (ra) failed, if I accept your fundamentals of theology.

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I disagree with that. And you can carry on believing in it.

You can disagree all you want but the fact of the matter is that neither Imam Ali (ra) nor Imam Hassan (ra) reversed the decision of Abu Bakr (ra).  For centuries you all have cursed Abu Bakr (ra).  Time to add your first two Imams (ra) to your list of cursed individuals or exonerate Abu Bakr (ra).

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They pushed to get their way.

Congratulations for declaring your "infallibles" (ra) to be pushovers, lol.  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) pushed to get their way and your "infallibles" (ra) just laid down for them to roll right over them.

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The ones who differed with the Shaykhain or those in authority were patient, tolerant and farsighted be it Ali, Fatima, Hassan or Hussain.

....but first and foremost, pushovers, as per your assessment.

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All I'm saying is the decision made in Saqifa wasn't legitimate. And you don't have a method and procedure when it comes to Shura on choosing a leader.

No problem; the decision made at Saqifa, in other words the concept of Shura on choosing a leader, was not legitimate.  Imam Ali (ra), too, was elected by the same process.  In other words, my point stands.  According to you, Imam Ali (ra) partook in an illegitimate process.

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If I met them I would like to ask them to get to know more about why. I'm not like you since I don't hold a grudge to begin with.

You would kiss their feet because it is quite clear you have no issues with anything they said.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 11, 2018, 02:54:21 AM
Indeed you defend and prove your theology in alleged debates that are oft-repeated (as feel-good stories) within your gatherings.  Outside your gatherings, in fact within your own mosques, when confronted by someone with a bit of knowledge, your wheels come off.

Salaavot!  Keep telling yourself that because there is no progress and the hidden one ain't coming out.

It is quite relevant the way I see it.

Hit-and-run is still better than what the hidden one is doing.  He is just hiding; won't even come out for one hit.  The legacy left behind by Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) still shakes him to his core, lol.

That is because, among many other things, you lack knowledge and do not possess the testicular fortitude to even begin a discussion.  You are quite happy with these petty back-n-forths and I entertain you because I like to see how shallow your understanding of Islam is and how deep your ignorance is.

Imams (ra) don't get personal?  But you claim Fadak was their right?  They would not even claim their own right?  As said before, I refuse to follow such incompetent leaders under the flagship of a ridiculous concept (Imamah).

This is winning!  Ordinary people were able to outsmart and outwork superhuman individuals, who were Divinely-Appointed, Divinely-Aided and Divinely-Guided, at every turn.  With or without worldly powers, the Imams (ra) failed, if I accept your fundamentals of theology.

You can disagree all you want but the fact of the matter is that neither Imam Ali (ra) nor Imam Hassan (ra) reversed the decision of Abu Bakr (ra).  For centuries you all have cursed Abu Bakr (ra).  Time to add your first two Imams (ra) to your list of cursed individuals or exonerate Abu Bakr (ra).

Congratulations for declaring your "infallibles" (ra) to be pushovers, lol.  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) pushed to get their way and your "infallibles" (ra) just laid down for them to roll right over them.

....but first and foremost, pushovers, as per your assessment.

No problem; the decision made at Saqifa, in other words the concept of Shura on choosing a leader, was not legitimate.  Imam Ali (ra), too, was elected by the same process.  In other words, my point stands.  According to you, Imam Ali (ra) partook in an illegitimate process.

You would kiss their feet because it is quite clear you have no issues with anything they said.

"Indeed you defend and prove your theology in alleged debates that are oft-repeated (as feel-good stories) within your gatherings"

Yeh we can see that. No wonder we're seen as a threat for the past 1400 years and are facing extreme propaganda 😊 It must be because of those feel good stories. Well you do admit that we feel good. You just need to admit that you feel terrible. That's because you hold so much grudge and hatred.

"Outside your gatherings, in fact within your own mosques"

Now that is contradiction. Make up your mind and then come back with that one. Take your time, you'll need it.

"when confronted by someone with a bit of knowledge, your wheels come off"

I haven't seen that someone yet. All I've seen is insults and sarcasm because of the insecurity you have and you can't get your facts right. It can be seen that I am getting the better of you. I can feel your scream and rage.

"Salaavot!  Keep telling yourself that because there is no progress and the hidden one ain't coming out"

Boy, you're really afraid of that hidden one, aren't you. He must be giving you nightmares.

"It is quite relevant the way I see it"

That's exactly what your problem is. The way you see it? Not the way it is but the way you see it. You've hit the nail on the head. You've finally got it.

"Hit-and-run is still better than what the hidden one is doing.  He is just hiding; won't even come out for one hit"

Yep, the hidden one is most definitely giving you nightmares. 😊


"The legacy left behind by Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) still shakes him to his core, lol"

Yeh, the long lost legacy which Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi is so desperately trying to bring back with his ruthless and murderous campaign.

"That is because, among many other things, you lack knowledge and do not possess the testicular fortitude to even begin a discussion"

I can see that by your insults and sarcasm.  You're all over the place. I know I'm getting the better of you. It can be clearly seen.

"You are quite happy with these petty back-n-forths and I entertain you because I like to see how shallow your understanding of Islam is and how deep your ignorance is"

I can see you entertaining. Your insults and sarcasm tells how entertaining and how satisfied you are. 😊

"Imams (ra) don't get personal?  But you claim Fadak was their right?  They would not even claim their own right?  As said before, I refuse to follow such incompetent leaders under the flagship of a ridiculous concept (Imamah)"

Then don't follow and get a life. When we come knocking your door then please do tell us.

"This is winning!  Ordinary people were able to outsmart and outwork superhuman individuals, who were Divinely-Appointed, Divinely-Aided and Divinely-Guided, at every turn.  With or without worldly powers, the Imams (ra) failed, if I accept your fundamentals of theology"

Like I said before, according to your ideology and thinking Satan has and still is out smarting God. You and your belief 😊

"You can disagree all you want but the fact of the matter is that neither Imam Ali (ra) nor Imam Hassan (ra) reversed the decision of Abu Bakr (ra)"

Firstly it was between Abu Bakr and Fatima and it lies between them. She will sort it out on judgement day.

Secondly authority and power is not something you use to your own benefit and to your advantage.

"For centuries you all have cursed Abu Bakr (ra)"

That is a statement based on your lack of knowledge and understanding.

"Congratulations for declaring your "infallibles" (ra) to be pushovers, lol.  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) pushed to get their way and your "infallibles" (ra) just laid down for them to roll right over them"

Again according to your understanding where does Satan and God fit in? 😊

"No problem; the decision made at Saqifa, in other words the concept of Shura on choosing a leader, was not legitimate.  Imam Ali (ra), too, was elected by the same process.  In other words, my point stands.  According to you, Imam Ali (ra) partook in an illegitimate process"

Nope. Ali was elected by the people. They came to him in vast numbers. And the allegiance took place in masjid a Nabawi. Where as Saqifa....I've already mentioned this time and time over.

"You would kiss their feet because it is quite clear you have no issues with anything they said"

Nope. I'm surprised you said that. We only kiss the feet of infallibles 😊 You should know that. You carry on here. It suits you. 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 11, 2018, 03:25:16 PM
Yeh we can see that. No wonder we're seen as a threat for the past 1400 years and are facing extreme propaganda 😊

Take an oath by Allah (swt) that you have never heard any stories in which a Shi'i or one of your Imams (ra) pinned the opposition into submission.  That is all you are fed along with subjective, experiential stories.

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It must be because of those feel good stories. Well you do admit that we feel good. You just need to admit that you feel terrible.

Quite a thing to say, coming from the mouth of someone who partakes in annual self-@$$whoopings.

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Now that is contradiction. Make up your mind and then come back with that one. Take your time, you'll need it.

It is not a contradiction; I have made Shias eat their words in person, online (like I have tormented you) and in their own mosques.  I am sorry that another one of your tricks did not go over.

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I haven't seen that someone yet.

The ostrich says the same.

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Boy, you're really afraid of that hidden one, aren't you. He must be giving you nightmares.

Boy?  Khair!  When I was a child, I used to think that boogeyman was hiding under my bed.  Now that I am older, I realize how ridiculous of a belief that was until I started interacting with Shias.  I am sure even a dimwit like yourself has understood my point so no need to type it out.

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That's exactly what your problem is. The way you see it? Not the way it is but the way you see it. You've hit the nail on the head. You've finally got it.

I always hit the nail on the head.  Well, lets not talk about nails; Shias have a bone to pick with nails too.  There were nails in the door of Fatima (ra).  Let me know when to pass you the Kleenex box and I also have a baseball bat for when you are ready to beat yourself senseless.

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Yep, the hidden one is most definitely giving you nightmares. 😊

Not nearly as many nightmares Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) have given him.  Centuries later, he is still hiding in a cellar, lol. 

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Yeh, the long lost legacy which Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi is so desperately trying to bring back with his ruthless and murderous campaign.

Why wouldn't Al-Baghdadi emulate the long lost legacy?  Everybody likes to win, even criminals and despicable murderous barbarians like Al-Baghdadi.  He wants to emulate a winning model.  Even the Iranian government took a page from the lost legacy and elected Ayatollah Khamenei via shura.  No one wants to follow a failed model so they cling on to Abu Bakr's (ra) and Umar's (ra) legacy.  #SoMuchWinning

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I can see that by your insults and sarcasm.  You're all over the place. I know I'm getting the better of you. It can be clearly seen.

Is it as clearly seen as your hidden one?

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I can see you entertaining. Your insults and sarcasm tells how entertaining and how satisfied you are. 😊

You can bet your house on it.  Nothing beats my 6:45 AM coffee while toying with your poor intellect.

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Then don't follow and get a life. When we come knocking your door then please do tell us.

Why would you knock on my door?  To garner support, like how you claim Imam Ali (ra) went door-to-door begging for help? 

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Like I said before, according to your ideology and thinking Satan has and still is out smarting God. You and your belief 😊

There is winning in motion again!  You still cannot reconcile your beliefs with reality, lol.  Such a desperate soul you are!

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Firstly it was between Abu Bakr and Fatima and it lies between them. She will sort it out on judgement day.

She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all). 

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Secondly authority and power is not something you use to your own benefit and to your advantage.

You claim Fadak was their right.  I see no harm in using power to restore your own right.  Unless, of course, it is not your property which is exactly what it was.  And your own Imams (ra) have narrated that Fay belongs to the leader of the time, hence, Abu Bakr (ra).  #Winning

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That is a statement based on your lack of knowledge and understanding.

Prove me wrong then!  For once, type "Abu Bakr" and right after it type, "alayh-is salaam" or "radhiAllahu anhu".  Go on!

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Nope. Ali was elected by the people. They came to him in vast numbers. And the allegiance took place in masjid a Nabawi. Where as Saqifa....I've already mentioned this time and time over.

The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute.  Imam Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence.  There is another history lesson for you.

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Nope. I'm surprised you said that. We only kiss the feet of infallibles 😊 You should know that. You carry on here. It suits you. 😊

...but the hidden one got cold feet.  Won't come out!
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 12, 2018, 10:40:21 PM
Take an oath by Allah (swt) that you have never heard any stories in which a Shi'i or one of your Imams (ra) pinned the opposition into submission.  That is all you are fed along with subjective, experiential stories.

Quite a thing to say, coming from the mouth of someone who partakes in annual self-@$$whoopings.

It is not a contradiction; I have made Shias eat their words in person, online (like I have tormented you) and in their own mosques.  I am sorry that another one of your tricks did not go over.

The ostrich says the same.

Boy?  Khair!  When I was a child, I used to think that boogeyman was hiding under my bed.  Now that I am older, I realize how ridiculous of a belief that was until I started interacting with Shias.  I am sure even a dimwit like yourself has understood my point so no need to type it out.

I always hit the nail on the head.  Well, lets not talk about nails; Shias have a bone to pick with nails too.  There were nails in the door of Fatima (ra).  Let me know when to pass you the Kleenex box and I also have a baseball bat for when you are ready to beat yourself senseless.

Not nearly as many nightmares Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) have given him.  Centuries later, he is still hiding in a cellar, lol. 

Why wouldn't Al-Baghdadi emulate the long lost legacy?  Everybody likes to win, even criminals and despicable murderous barbarians like Al-Baghdadi.  He wants to emulate a winning model.  Even the Iranian government took a page from the lost legacy and elected Ayatollah Khamenei via shura.  No one wants to follow a failed model so they cling on to Abu Bakr's (ra) and Umar's (ra) legacy.  #SoMuchWinning

Is it as clearly seen as your hidden one?

You can bet your house on it.  Nothing beats my 6:45 AM coffee while toying with your poor intellect.

Why would you knock on my door?  To garner support, like how you claim Imam Ali (ra) went door-to-door begging for help? 

There is winning in motion again!  You still cannot reconcile your beliefs with reality, lol.  Such a desperate soul you are!

She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all). 

You claim Fadak was their right.  I see no harm in using power to restore your own right.  Unless, of course, it is not your property which is exactly what it was.  And your own Imams (ra) have narrated that Fay belongs to the leader of the time, hence, Abu Bakr (ra).  #Winning

Prove me wrong then!  For once, type "Abu Bakr" and right after it type, "alayh-is salaam" or "radhiAllahu anhu".  Go on!

The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute.  Imam Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence.  There is another history lesson for you.

...but the hidden one got cold feet.  Won't come out!

"Take an oath by Allah (swt) that you have never heard any stories in which a Shi'i or one of your Imams (ra) pinned the opposition into submission"

Pinned, submission, winning, loosing etc, that's all you seem to think of. Your world evolves around that. Is this success for you? It probably is. Can you tell me about any Messenger that PINNED the opposition into SUBMISSION? Can you hear yourself, you sound like a kid.

"That is all you are fed along with subjective, experiential stories"

We aren't fed with anything apart from reality and facts. We have principles and standards which we stick to and go by. UNLIKE YOU. You go by incidents and events and then make up as you go along as it suits you.

"Quite a thing to say, coming from the mouth of someone who partakes in annual self-@$$whoopings"

YOU'VE BEEN RAISED WELL. 😊 I can see that 😊

"It is not a contradiction; I have made Shias eat their words in person, online (like I have tormented you) and in their own mosques.  I am sorry that another one of your tricks did not go over"

☺ Keep on dreaming boy, keep on dreaming 😊

"Boy?  Khair!  When I was a child, I used to think that boogeyman was hiding under my bed.  Now that I am older, I realize how ridiculous of a belief that was until I started interacting with Shias.  I am sure even a dimwit like yourself has understood my point so no need to type it out"

No I haven't understood your point because you're right, one has to be a dimwit to understand what you're saying 😊

"I always hit the nail on the head.  Well, lets not talk about nails; Shias have a bone to pick with nails too.  There were nails in the door of Fatima (ra).  Let me know when to pass you the Kleenex box and I also have a baseball bat for when you are ready to beat yourself senseless"

By looking at such comments I would say, a man with a brain of a child. 😊 The way you're going on it seems to me that you must have been bullied at school or by someone in your childhood. I can see the frustration being released.

"Not nearly as many nightmares Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) have given him.  Centuries later, he is still hiding in a cellar, lol"

They haven’t given anyone nightmares. They kicked off at Saqifa and then it went all awol from there. Muslims started to use heavy handed tactics on Muslims, Muslims turned against Muslims and Caliphate just disappeared as quickly as it started. And is no where to be seen or heard of. That's what happens when you take matters into your own hands.

"Why wouldn't Al-Baghdadi emulate the long lost legacy?  Everybody likes to win, even criminals and despicable murderous barbarians like Al-Baghdadi.  He wants to emulate a winning model"

You can't see beyond winning and loosing. That's how narrow sighted you are. Messengers and Imams didn't come and weren't sent to win or loose. Al-Baghdadi wants to bring about the Islamic Caliphate that was brought around at Saqifa.

He wants bring back this so called long lost legacy of yours. Did you give him allegiance? He's declared himself as the Muslim Caliph by Shura. Believe me there were a hell of a lot more people during Al-Baghdadis selection than at Saqifa. 😊

"Why would you knock on my door?  To garner support, like how you claim Imam Ali (ra) went door-to-door begging for help"

WHEN DID I CLAIM? 😊 Can you tell me when I made such a claim? Just as you've been running before you're going to run here as well 😊

"She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all)"

She.....? If this is how I'll, low and naive you speak about the Prophet's s.a.w daughter then I don't care what you say and how you speak about me. I can clearly see the grudge for her in your words.

"You claim Fadak was their right.  I see no harm in using power to restore your own right.  Unless, of course, it is not your property which is exactly what it was.  And your own Imams (ra) have narrated that Fay belongs to the leader of the time, hence, Abu Bakr (ra).  #Winning"

Start a thread and talk about Fadak if you're that desperate. Stop bringing in irrelevant stuff.

"Prove me wrong then!  For once, type "Abu Bakr" and right after it type, "alayh-is salaam" or "radhiAllahu anhu".  Go on!"

Prove you wrong? How many times. For once? Forget about ONCE how many times would you like it.

ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

"The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute.  Imam Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence.  There is another history lesson for you"

PROVE IT "The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute"

PROVE IT "Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence"

PROVE THE TWO ABOVE. JUST WORDS ARE CHEAP

"but the hidden one got cold feet.  Won't come out!"

The hidden one is most definitely giving you NIGHTMARES. Don't kill yourself over it.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 13, 2018, 03:43:13 PM
Pinned, submission, winning, loosing etc, that's all you seem to think of. Your world evolves around that. Is this success for you? It probably is. Can you tell me about any Messenger that PINNED the opposition into SUBMISSION? Can you hear yourself, you sound like a kid.

Quite pathetic to see you pretend to take the high road!  Yes, success is all about winning.  Don't blame me; I only learned it from all the times I have sat in Shi'i gatherings. 

I may sound like a kid.  After all, I have to dumb things down to speak with you at your level of comprehension.

Quote
We aren't fed with anything apart from reality and facts. We have principles and standards which we stick to and go by.

I laughed so hard that I had my coffee coming out of my nose.

Quote
YOU'VE BEEN RAISED WELL. 😊 I can see that 😊

Alhamdulilah!  By the way, bat or chain?

Quote
Keep on dreaming boy, keep on dreaming 😊

It does feel like a dream.  How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?

Quote
No I haven't understood your point because you're right, one has to be a dimwit to understand what you're saying 😊

NOW I GET IT!  I have to dumb things further down than "dimwit level" for you to grasp.  That is a tall order!  I will have to find one of your zakirs.  Only they can dumb things down to a level lower than "dimwit".

Quote
By looking at such comments I would say, a man with a brain of a child. 😊 The way you're going on it seems to me that you must have been bullied at school or by someone in your childhood. I can see the frustration being released.

Consistent with your online discussions, you make a horrible psychologist.

Quote
They haven’t given anyone nightmares.

Then why are you still crying, lol?

Quote
Muslims started to use heavy handed tactics on Muslims, Muslims turned against Muslims and Caliphate just disappeared as quickly as it started.

Blame Imam Hassan (ra) for it!  He gave the Caliphate to Muawiya who then converted it into kingship.  As always, the root of all your complains can be traced to your own "infallibles" (ra).  Instead of holding us accountable, wait till the hidden one comes out and demand an answer from him.

Quote
Messengers and Imams didn't come and weren't sent to win or loose.

All the Prophets (asws) won and their victory was sealed in the Holy Prophet (saw).  Don't know what "Imams" are you talking about because there is no Imamah.

Quote
Al-Baghdadi wants to bring about the Islamic Caliphate that was brought around at Saqifa.

Then that puts Al-Baghdadi in the same league as Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) because he (Al-Baghdadi) wants admission to a group the members of which included Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra).  After all, Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) participated in what was "brought around at Saqifa".

As mentioned earlier, all your issues point right back at your own "infallibles" (ra).

Quote
He wants bring back this so called long lost legacy of yours.

...and the long lost legacy that your own "infallibles" (ra) participated in and upheld.

Quote
Did you give him allegiance? He's declared himself as the Muslim Caliph by Shura.

I don't go by personal declarations.  If I did, I would consider Bayat-al-Ghadeer and the rest of your zakirs to be the bastions of Tawheed.

Quote
Believe me there were a hell of a lot more people during Al-Baghdadis selection than at Saqifa. 😊

....and there are even more people that vehemently abhor him.

Quote
WHEN DID I CLAIM? 😊 Can you tell me when I made such a claim? Just as you've been running before you're going to run here as well 😊

This is documented in your books and Ijtaba admitted it in another topic.

Quote
She.....? If this is how I'll, low and naive you speak about the Prophet's s.a.w daughter then I don't care what you say and how you speak about me. I can clearly see the grudge for her in your words.

Was Fatima (ra) not a woman?  The feminine pronoun is "she", "her" and "hers".  I am surprised you see the absent grudge but failed to see the apparent.  Here is my entire statement:

"She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all)."

Quote
Start a thread and talk about Fadak if you're that desperate. Stop bringing in irrelevant stuff.

I knocked hells into clowns like Yam_110 on ShiaChat.  No need to beat a dead horse!

Quote
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

Wallaahi, this is the FIRST time when you not only have directly addressed one of my points but utterly refuted me.  I mean it.  May Allah (swt) bless you and regardless of whether you meant it or not, may Allah (swt) forgive all your short-comings and admit you to Paradise for being pleased with the one whom Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saw) are pleased with.

Quote
PROVE IT "The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute"

PROVE IT "Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence"

PROVE THE TWO ABOVE. JUST WORDS ARE CHEAP

It is very simple.  Was there a single Muslim who opposed the leadership of Abu Bakr (ra)?  No!  Were there any Muslims that opposed Imam Ali (ra)?  Quite a few!  And that is one of your grievances (that many Muslims did not pledge allegiance to Imam Ali (ra) who was the rightful Caliph).

Quote
The hidden one is most definitely giving you NIGHTMARES. Don't kill yourself over it.

The way I see it, you are in for a big shock once you realize that the hidden one is actually non-existent.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 18, 2018, 12:41:09 AM
Quite pathetic to see you pretend to take the high road!  Yes, success is all about winning.  Don't blame me; I only learned it from all the times I have sat in Shi'i gatherings. 

I may sound like a kid.  After all, I have to dumb things down to speak with you at your level of comprehension.

I laughed so hard that I had my coffee coming out of my nose.

Alhamdulilah!  By the way, bat or chain?

It does feel like a dream.  How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?

NOW I GET IT!  I have to dumb things further down than "dimwit level" for you to grasp.  That is a tall order!  I will have to find one of your zakirs.  Only they can dumb things down to a level lower than "dimwit".

Consistent with your online discussions, you make a horrible psychologist.

Then why are you still crying, lol?

Blame Imam Hassan (ra) for it!  He gave the Caliphate to Muawiya who then converted it into kingship.  As always, the root of all your complains can be traced to your own "infallibles" (ra).  Instead of holding us accountable, wait till the hidden one comes out and demand an answer from him.

All the Prophets (asws) won and their victory was sealed in the Holy Prophet (saw).  Don't know what "Imams" are you talking about because there is no Imamah.

Then that puts Al-Baghdadi in the same league as Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) because he (Al-Baghdadi) wants admission to a group the members of which included Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra).  After all, Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) participated in what was "brought around at Saqifa".

As mentioned earlier, all your issues point right back at your own "infallibles" (ra).

...and the long lost legacy that your own "infallibles" (ra) participated in and upheld.

I don't go by personal declarations.  If I did, I would consider Bayat-al-Ghadeer and the rest of your zakirs to be the bastions of Tawheed.

....and there are even more people that vehemently abhor him.

This is documented in your books and Ijtaba admitted it in another topic.

Was Fatima (ra) not a woman?  The feminine pronoun is "she", "her" and "hers".  I am surprised you see the absent grudge but failed to see the apparent.  Here is my entire statement:

"She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all)."

I knocked hells into clowns like Yam_110 on ShiaChat.  No need to beat a dead horse!

Wallaahi, this is the FIRST time when you not only have directly addressed one of my points but utterly refuted me.  I mean it.  May Allah (swt) bless you and regardless of whether you meant it or not, may Allah (swt) forgive all your short-comings and admit you to Paradise for being pleased with the one whom Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saw) are pleased with.

It is very simple.  Was there a single Muslim who opposed the leadership of Abu Bakr (ra)?  No!  Were there any Muslims that opposed Imam Ali (ra)?  Quite a few!  And that is one of your grievances (that many Muslims did not pledge allegiance to Imam Ali (ra) who was the rightful Caliph).

The way I see it, you are in for a big shock once you realize that the hidden one is actually non-existent.

"Quite pathetic to see you pretend to take the high road!  Yes, success is all about winning.  Don't blame me; I only learned it from all the times I have sat in Shi'i gatherings"

Ok, so success is all about winning. Now tell me when Muhammad s.a.w declared his Messenger status uptil now how much of the world is muslim, has become muslim?

124,000 Messengers and Prophets that have been, how many have been successful and how successful?

How successful was Noah that he was told to build an ark because the nation was going to be wiped out by a natural disaster by Allah as a punishment for that nation because of showing continues disbelief towards Noah and the message?

Why was Yusuf swallowed by a Wale? Would you call all this winning? I don't see any winning. What winning do you see. And you yapp on about Imams and winning.

Get your facts right. Go and learn before you speak. Otherwise you won't know what you're saying. And that's exactly what's happening, you don't know what you're saying.

"I may sound like a kid.  After all, I have to dumb things down to speak with you at your level of comprehension"

You don't need to dumb things down at all. You wouldn't be able to anyway. There is nothing below you and your intellectual level.

"I laughed so hard that I had my coffee coming out of my nose"

You should thank God it came out of your nose..........

"How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?"

Is that why you're spending so much time, effort, energy and money on refuting us for the past 1400 years that you don't have a purpose to your life apart from this.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on December 18, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
Ok, so success is all about winning. Now tell me when Muhammad s.a.w declared his Messenger status uptil now how much of the world is muslim, has become muslim?

Strawman!  The Holy Prophet (saw) is the absolute model of winning.  He was never coerced into giving up his prophethood to any other false prophet and within decades, the bedouin Arabs were ruling from Morocco to far-East.  Compare this to your Imams (ra); one gave bayyah to Abu Bakr (ra), the other gave his Caliphate to Muawiya and the last one is nowhere to be found.

Quote
124,000 Messengers and Prophets that have been, how many have been successful and how successful?

All of them!

Quote
How successful was Noah that he was told to build an ark because the nation was going to be wiped out by a natural disaster by Allah as a punishment for that nation because of showing continues disbelief towards Noah and the message?

Even Nuh (asws) was more successful in a day than all of your Imams (ra) in their entire existence.  The message that Nuh (asws) brought was completed by the Holy Prophet (saw) which is well on its way to dominate the world.  This while there is not a single reliable hadith in your own books naming your 12 Imams (ra), lol.

Quote
Why was Yusuf swallowed by a Wale? Would you call all this winning? I don't see any winning. What winning do you see. And you yapp on about Imams and winning.

Yusuf (asws)?  You mean Yunus (asws)!  Don't worry, you are not taught stories of the Prophets (asws).  Yunus (asws), with the help of Allah (swt) worked his way out of the belly of the whale which defies logic.  He did not suffocate nor did the gastric acids melt his skin.  But your Imams (ra) were somehow unable to thwart off mere fallible beings.  Maybe Allah (swt) abandoned them?

Quote
Get your facts right. Go and learn before you speak. Otherwise you won't know what you're saying. And that's exactly what's happening, you don't know what you're saying.

Says the guy who cannot distinguish between Yusuf (asws) and Yunus (asws).

Quote
You don't need to dumb things down at all. You wouldn't be able to anyway. There is nothing below you and your intellectual level.

Again, says the guy who cannot distinguish between Yusuf (asws) and Yunus (asws).

Quote
You should thank God it came out of your nose..........

If you drink through your mouth, it'll come out of your nose.  Didn't know you drink coffee through the wrong end.

Quote
Is that why you're spending so much time, effort, energy and money on refuting us for the past 1400 years that you don't have a purpose to your life apart from this.

Time spent: 15 minutes
Money spent: $0.00
Energy: 5 calories
Effort: none

That is how easy it is to deal with you.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on December 18, 2018, 06:03:46 PM

"How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?"

Is that why you're spending so much time, effort, energy and money on refuting us for the past 1400 years that you don't have a purpose to your life apart from this.

It only took me a couple of posts to refute you never mind 1400 years 😂😂😂
And it was for free I didn’t exchange any money

You can thank me later 😉👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on December 20, 2018, 04:30:49 PM
It only took me a couple of posts to refute you never mind 1400 years 😂😂😂
And it was for free I didn’t exchange any money

You can thank me later 😉👍

You love dreaming. You're a person who likes to blow their own trumpet. Go on, keep patting yourself on the back. Have one from me. 😀
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on December 20, 2018, 08:54:25 PM
You love dreaming. You're a person who likes to blow their own trumpet. Go on, keep patting yourself on the back. Have one from me. 😀

Icemans Dream is one day to live under a fairytale rule by divine appointment yes a good dream that never will happen or has ever happened.😉

Pssst........saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening.👍

We know we know........it bloomin hurts.😂
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 11, 2019, 03:21:38 AM
Icemans Dream is one day to live under a fairytale rule by divine appointment yes a good dream that never will happen or has ever happened.😉

Pssst........saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening.👍

We know we know........it bloomin hurts.😂

"saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening"

Oh yes, that INCIDENT did occur. INCIDENT, not an EVENT. It hurts terribly. I've got goosebumps all over. 😅
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 11, 2019, 03:42:25 PM
"saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening"

Oh yes, that INCIDENT did occur. INCIDENT, not an EVENT. It hurts terribly. I've got goosebumps all over. 😅

You didn’t just get goosebumps, you turned into a liar a dishonest deceitful liar!

This is the outcome of believing in false divine imams.......it turns you into a liar!

It’s the 12’r imamate theory it just makes you want to talk crap and lie.👍

😉👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 12, 2019, 04:08:35 AM
You didn’t just get goosebumps, you turned into a liar a dishonest deceitful liar!

This is the outcome of believing in false divine imams.......it turns you into a liar!

It’s the 12’r imamate theory it just makes you want to talk crap and lie.👍

😉👍

Done this many times over. But you want to keep at it because it's hard for you to face defeat.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Imam is from Imamah. He was already a Messenger and a Prophet. So he held two titles already. One above the other. When he was tried and he fulfilled that trial only then he was blessed by Imamah by being made and Imam. That's your third title dear that he was given. He was divine and was given Imamah. So divine +Imamah = divine Imamah. 😊 Now don't faint over it. 😀
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 12, 2019, 12:21:38 PM
Done this many times over. But you want to keep at it because it's hard for you to face defeat.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Imam is from Imamah. He was already a Messenger and a Prophet. So he held two titles already. One above the other. When he was tried and he fulfilled that trial only then he was blessed by Imamah by being made and Imam. That's your third title dear that he was given. He was divine and was given Imamah. So divine +Imamah = divine Imamah. 😊 Now don't faint over it. 😀

Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid.

😂

LIAR it’s boring you regurgitate the same verse over and over and over, you must be a robot repeating the same mantra again and again.......YAWN.

You’ve gave us your best answer......”it’s up to god” who He turns divine Imamate ....He appoints/promotes like you brought in another verse the same for Surah qasas He appoints even the imams for hellfire.......according to YOU!!😂😂😂

Keep at it you are all over the place with that divine fake Imamate theory even your imams are appointed by Allah swt to lead YOU to hellfire..........big up ibn Saba the very FIRST imam of divine leadership theory being carried on by ibn iceman the new age Shiite who makes it up as you go along modern day intellectual Shiite and a LIAR!!

😂

Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 12, 2019, 04:30:51 PM
Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid.

😂

LIAR it’s boring you regurgitate the same verse over and over and over, you must be a robot repeating the same mantra again and again.......YAWN.

You’ve gave us your best answer......”it’s up to god” who He turns divine Imamate ....He appoints/promotes like you brought in another verse the same for Surah qasas He appoints even the imams for hellfire.......according to YOU!!😂😂😂

Keep at it you are all over the place with that divine fake Imamate theory even your imams are appointed by Allah swt to lead YOU to hellfire..........big up ibn Saba the very FIRST imam of divine leadership theory being carried on by ibn iceman the new age Shiite who makes it up as you go along modern day intellectual Shiite and a LIAR!!

😂

"Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid"

What do you mean by JUST? Who are YOU to come up with JUST. JUST WHAT? If IMAM here means LEADER then wasn't he a leader in the first place? Are you not a leader by being a Prophet or Messenger? You either exaggerate or mitigate.

He was divine to begin with because he became a Messenger and a Prophet. Then after being tried he was honoured with Imamah. It is absolutely clear that he was given Imamah after Messenger hood and Prophecy.

Whether it's examples or references, for the intelligent and wise, one or two are more than enough. But when you're discussing with ignorant then you will end up with a confrontational stance based on ifs and buts.

This example is more than enough and is crystal clear that Imamah exists in the Qur'an and Allah made Abraham an Imam after putting him through a test a trial. How many more examples do ignorants want. When you're dealing with ignorance no example is enough and no reference is satisfactory.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 12:02:13 AM
"Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid"

What do you mean by JUST? Who are YOU to come up with JUST. JUST WHAT? If IMAM here means LEADER then wasn't he a leader in the first place? Are you not a leader by being a Prophet or Messenger? You either exaggerate or mitigate.

He was divine to begin with because he became a Messenger and a Prophet. Then after being tried he was honoured with Imamah. It is absolutely clear that he was given Imamah after Messenger hood and Prophecy.

Whether it's examples or references, for the intelligent and wise, one or two are more than enough. But when you're discussing with ignorant then you will end up with a confrontational stance based on ifs and buts.

This example is more than enough and is crystal clear that Imamah exists in the Qur'an and Allah made Abraham an Imam after putting him through a test a trial. How many more examples do ignorants want. When you're dealing with ignorance no example is enough and no reference is satisfactory.

It’s ok liar if you choose to ignore the lies you have been spewing that’s ok but don’t call anyone else ignorant if you are one yourself and you have proved it.

The desperation in your explanation is funny at best lol, yes He Ibrahim as was a prophet chosen by the divine yes we agree now comes the part where He Ibrahim as was made an imam yes a leader we as Muslims follow Him as a leader His progeny were leaders a great leader a great imam.
At the least He was a prophet first, the imams weren’t prophets yet according to you they just became divine cos it was upto god as you stated, do you even make sense? you are now calling others ignorant because you can’t explain clearly the divine part of that verse. Even to the point where you tried twisting it so that me and Muslim 720 was talking about normal leaders/imams, you dishonest deceitful liar I am still waiting for your proof on that too.😉

It’s crystal clear even by your nonsensical examples and explanations that there is No divine imams, No divine rule,No proof of such in authentic narrations,No proof in the Quran, to the point you have morphed into a liar a label that is most famous with your sect.

Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 09:15:27 AM
It’s ok liar if you choose to ignore the lies you have been spewing that’s ok but don’t call anyone else ignorant if you are one yourself and you have proved it.

The desperation in your explanation is funny at best lol, yes He Ibrahim as was a prophet chosen by the divine yes we agree now comes the part where He Ibrahim as was made an imam yes a leader we as Muslims follow Him as a leader His progeny were leaders a great leader a great imam.
At the least He was a prophet first, the imams weren’t prophets yet according to you they just became divine cos it was upto god as you stated, do you even make sense? you are now calling others ignorant because you can’t explain clearly the divine part of that verse. Even to the point where you tried twisting it so that me and Muslim 720 was talking about normal leaders/imams, you dishonest deceitful liar I am still waiting for your proof on that too.😉

It’s crystal clear even by your nonsensical examples and explanations that there is No divine imams, No divine rule,No proof of such in authentic narrations,No proof in the Quran, to the point you have morphed into a liar a label that is most famous with your sect.

Still want to be ignorant and stubborn about it and play blind and dumb over it, that's fine. You carry on. 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 03:15:42 PM
Still want to be ignorant and stubborn about it and play blind and dumb over it, that's fine. You carry on. 😊

What’s up can’t you explain divine Imamate....LIAR😂😂😂

After all your lies your back to square one.😂😂😂😂😂

The belief in divine Imamate has made you into a LIAR!

You carry on

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 03:18:39 PM
What’s up can’t you explain divine Imamate....LIAR😂😂😂

After all your lies your back to square one.😂😂😂😂😂

The belief in divine Imamate has made you into a LIAR!

You carry on

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I've explained it in full. Allah's explained it with an example. The problem is with you.  You just don't want to accept it.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

The verse illustrates two points:

1. Here the position of Imamate is higher in rank than that of Prophet Hood.

2. Here the position of Imamate does not include the unjust.

Now it absolutely obvious that you're having problems digesting this. You want to keep running around in circles and beating around the bush then that's up to you.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 04:05:09 PM
I've explained it in full. Allah's explained it with an example. The problem is with you.  You just don't want to accept it.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

The verse illustrates two points:

1. Here the position of Imamate is higher in rank than that of Prophet Hood.

2. Here the position of Imamate does not include the unjust.

Now it absolutely obvious that you're having problems digesting this. You want to keep running around in circles and beating around the bush then that's up to you.


The verse simply states He will be made an IMAM after prophethood.

Divine Imamate YOU added in yourself it’s YOUR addition and lie!

(You did try your best at lying and started twisting it on another thread that we was talking about normal leadership when you knew full well I wasn’t)

Lying and deceitful!

Your number 1 explanation has nothing apart from you explaining what you THINK/ASSUME it is, you can’t even move forward with this hence you’ve been stuck like a broken record going round and round.

It’s very hard to digest something that’s CLEARLY not there.😜

I told you the dream of Saba you are trying to bring to life by adding assumptions to words that are clear is turning you into a deceitful liar.😉
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 04:23:01 PM
I've explained it in full. Allah's explained it with an example. The problem is with you.  You just don't want to accept it.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

The verse illustrates two points:

1. Here the position of Imamate is higher in rank than that of Prophet Hood.

2. Here the position of Imamate does not include the unjust.

Now it absolutely obvious that you're having problems digesting this. You want to keep running around in circles and beating around the bush then that's up to you.

The position of divine leadership is higher in rank because...........the Quran says he will be imam afterwards.

Imam in Quran = leader
Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader

Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity which is clear enough and easily understandable if you was new to islam and read the verse yes He Ibrahim as was a great leader.

Your version of “divine god chosen” imams leader is NOT in the verse, YOU added that in yourself because it’s your belief and idea that Saba made up and you have nothing from Allah swt hence the regurgitated attempts of repeat answers that have no value on academic levels, infact you haven’t even an academic answer apart from.......dumb blind dumb blind dumb blind you can’t see your eyes are closed, this is your best answer.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍👍

Thankyou to iceman this is how divine Imamate starts........you have to create the idea yourself like Saba then create an idea that imams are god chosen by using fake accounts and using examples of prophets and twisting words of verses and ADD divinity theory it to the verse like iceman keeps doing and if the sunnies don’t understand then call them names finally to outright lie against them, ( I am sure there is a hadith on lying to sunnies from your imams, you definitely are carrying that trophy).😜👍

This is shiism folks.👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 05:05:22 PM
The position of divine leadership is higher in rank because...........the Quran says he will be imam afterwards.

Imam in Quran = leader
Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader

Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity which is clear enough and easily understandable if you was new to islam and read the verse yes He Ibrahim as was a great leader.

Your version of “divine god chosen” imams leader is NOT in the verse, YOU added that in yourself because it’s your belief and idea that Saba made up and you have nothing from Allah swt hence the regurgitated attempts of repeat answers that have no value on academic levels, infact you haven’t even an academic answer apart from.......dumb blind dumb blind dumb blind you can’t see your eyes are closed, this is your best answer.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍👍

Thankyou to iceman this is how divine Imamate starts........you have to create the idea yourself like Saba then create an idea that imams are god chosen by using fake accounts and using examples of prophets and twisting words of verses and ADD divinity theory it to the verse like iceman keeps doing and if the sunnies don’t understand then call them names finally to outright lie against them, ( I am sure there is a hadith on lying to sunnies from your imams, you definitely are carrying that trophy).😜👍

This is shiism folks.👍

I wish people would use their aql sometimes instead of emotions.

"Imam in Quran = leader"

Why does Imam mean leader? Does Messenger/Prophet not mean leader? If you say that Abraham was just made a leader then was he not a leader when he was a Prophet? You haven't addressed this.

"Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader"

No, God chosen Imam. Because Allah said he made Abraham an Imam of the people? First he was a Prophet and then he was MADE an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Before he wasn't an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Why don't you accept something so straightforward. Because it bites what your belief stands on.

"Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity"

Why without any divinity? What makes you say that?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 07:46:46 PM
I wish people would use their aql sometimes instead of emotions.

"Imam in Quran = leader"

Why does Imam mean leader? Does Messenger/Prophet not mean leader? If you say that Abraham was just made a leader then was he not a leader when he was a Prophet? You haven't addressed this.

"Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader"

No, God chosen Imam. Because Allah said he made Abraham an Imam of the people? First he was a Prophet and then he was MADE an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Before he wasn't an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Why don't you accept something so straightforward. Because it bites what your belief stands on.

"Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity"

Why without any divinity? What makes you say that?

Leader of what? He Ibrahim as was spreading la ilaha ilallah He was following His leader on revelations being revealed.....Allah swt the greatest imam/leader, don’t look too much into Arabic words your not a native of the language and don’t add things that are not there. Prophets are different to imams your just closing your eyes and arguing blindly as if divine Imamate is higher.

Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity.


Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2019, 12:40:58 AM
Leader of what? He Ibrahim as was spreading la ilaha ilallah He was following His leader on revelations being revealed.....Allah swt the greatest imam/leader, don’t look too much into Arabic words your not a native of the language and don’t add things that are not there. Prophets are different to imams your just closing your eyes and arguing blindly as if divine Imamate is higher.

Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity.

I don't need to add anything and you don't need to subtract anything. You're not a native either. And being a native doesn't make much difference because the natives differed greatly on various matters and still do.

He was made an Imam of the people. You translate this as leader. Was he not a leader before being tried? You haven’t touched this. He was a leader to begin with. So leadership has got nothing to do with it.

Don't twist and turn things to mitigate and minimise the matter. This is a serious issue. It's no joke. You said "Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood" was he not a great leader before being an Imam?

Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.

"without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity"

Then again what is the point of the whole thing? Why mention this example? What was the need? He was tried by his Lord and when succeeded he was made an Imam of the people. If this is not important and serious, if it's nothing big then what's the point of it.

WAKE UP!
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 14, 2019, 10:38:32 AM
I don't need to add anything and you don't need to subtract anything. You're not a native either. And being a native doesn't make much difference because the natives differed greatly on various matters and still do.

He was made an Imam of the people. You translate this as leader. Was he not a leader before being tried? You haven’t touched this. He was a leader to begin with. So leadership has got nothing to do with it.

Don't twist and turn things to mitigate and minimise the matter. This is a serious issue. It's no joke. You said "Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood" was he not a great leader before being an Imam?

Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.

"without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity"

Then again what is the point of the whole thing? Why mention this example? What was the need? He was tried by his Lord and when succeeded he was made an Imam of the people. If this is not important and serious, if it's nothing big then what's the point of it.

WAKE UP!

You DO liar, you add the concept YOURSELF, nowhere does it say He Ibrahim as is now a divine imam, you made that methodology up YOURSELF and you know it, a bad methadology where you set the standards.

His prophecy was complete as the verse states and prophets recieve revelations and are divine as you concluded and which is an established FACT.
He is a leader of mankind as the verse states, you must be dumb to not recognise that He is the leader an imam, a leader an imam WITHOUT the benefit of being divine,(you add that by using your Shiite biased methadology or are straight up ignorant) no more revelations no more tests and commandments, He Ibrahim as lived His life as a leader who taught one god to the world as the verses theme goes, just ponder over Judaism Christianity and Islam He Ibrahim as is our leader we celebrate the biggest eid.....eid ul adha because of Ibrahim as.

He was a prophet spreading deen following commandments of Allah swt, He wasn’t a leader like you think of Him as a divine leader just because He was a divine prophet no that’s your folly that’s your misunderstanding that’s where you are going wrong and adding divine in based on your stupid methadology.
That’s why I said Arabic is not our native language as imam means leader, teacher, parent etc so that leadership could also fall into a teacher a teacher an imam who taught One God.

You are adding an alien concept yet again and are finding it very difficult of explaining how it fits in there.😜

You say:
“Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.”

So according to your above reply imam leader on its own doesn’t make sense? Just because you deem it to be so, That’s exactly what I mean you are a biased Shiite your not even opening your mind up instead it doesn’t makes sense to you......more like you KNOW it’s nonsense but your loyalty to the dream of ibn Saba and His divine Imamate theory will go out of the window if you believe as the Quran states without the divine bit.

Yes Ibrahim as’s prophethood was VERY important to not just us muslims but for the whole world, you ask them questions to Allah swt it’s not our problem that you can’t explain that divine part that you keep adding to one particular verse that you think sounds closest to divine Imamate and by using a Shiite methadology and stupid questions to come to your conclusion.

GO BACK TO SLEEP IN YOUR CAVE LIAR!
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 01:27:41 PM
You DO liar, you add the concept YOURSELF, nowhere does it say He Ibrahim as is now a divine imam, you made that methodology up YOURSELF and you know it, a bad methadology where you set the standards.

His prophecy was complete as the verse states and prophets recieve revelations and are divine as you concluded and which is an established FACT.
He is a leader of mankind as the verse states, you must be dumb to not recognise that He is the leader an imam, a leader an imam WITHOUT the benefit of being divine,(you add that by using your Shiite biased methadology or are straight up ignorant) no more revelations no more tests and commandments, He Ibrahim as lived His life as a leader who taught one god to the world as the verses theme goes, just ponder over Judaism Christianity and Islam He Ibrahim as is our leader we celebrate the biggest eid.....eid ul adha because of Ibrahim as.

He was a prophet spreading deen following commandments of Allah swt, He wasn’t a leader like you think of Him as a divine leader just because He was a divine prophet no that’s your folly that’s your misunderstanding that’s where you are going wrong and adding divine in based on your stupid methadology.
That’s why I said Arabic is not our native language as imam means leader, teacher, parent etc so that leadership could also fall into a teacher a teacher an imam who taught One God.

You are adding an alien concept yet again and are finding it very difficult of explaining how it fits in there.😜

You say:
“Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.”

So according to your above reply imam leader on its own doesn’t make sense? Just because you deem it to be so, That’s exactly what I mean you are a biased Shiite your not even opening your mind up instead it doesn’t makes sense to you......more like you KNOW it’s nonsense but your loyalty to the dream of ibn Saba and His divine Imamate theory will go out of the window if you believe as the Quran states without the divine bit.

Yes Ibrahim as’s prophethood was VERY important to not just us muslims but for the whole world, you ask them questions to Allah swt it’s not our problem that you can’t explain that divine part that you keep adding to one particular verse that you think sounds closest to divine Imamate and by using a Shiite methadology and stupid questions to come to your conclusion.

GO BACK TO SLEEP IN YOUR CAVE LIAR!

There is no need to go into equations from physics or mathematics. It's not complicated at all. Abraham was tried by his Lord, when he fulfilled the trial Allah promoted him by making him an Imam of the people. No high level science involved here. First a Messenger and a Prophet, and then an Imam. Muhammad s.a.w is the greatest and highest of all. Imamah is from Allah. And in Abraham's case it is a higher level then Messenger hood and Prophecy. So simple. But the thought of Saqifa and those responsible for the incident makes it difficult for you.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2019, 01:35:44 PM
There is no need to go into equations from physics or mathematics. It's not complicated at all. Abraham was tried by his Lord, when he fulfilled the trial Allah promoted him by making him an Imam of the people. No high level science involved here. First a Messenger and a Prophet, and then an Imam. Muhammad s.a.w is the greatest and highest of all. Imamah is from Allah. And in Abraham's case it is a higher level then Messenger hood and Prophecy. So simple. But the thought of Saqifa and those responsible for the incident makes it difficult for you.

LOL it’s back to saqifa and how much it has destroyed divine imarmite which you have turned into a LIAR because you can’t get your point across.😂😂

Something so simple yet contradictive when applied in real life.......divine Imamate the idea and thought of ibn Saba, you definitely are following his Sunna of lying.😊👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 03:09:28 PM
LOL it’s back to saqifa and how much it has destroyed divine imarmite which you have turned into a LIAR because you can’t get your point across.😂😂

Something so simple yet contradictive when applied in real life.......divine Imamate the idea and thought of ibn Saba, you definitely are following his Sunna of lying.😊👍

Saqifa hasn't destroyed anything apart from turning the system of Caliphate into a mess. Ibn Saba is a fictional character created by propagandists just to divert attention.

"Abdollah Ibn Saba was a jew from Sanaa of Yemen and his mother was a black woman"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3.page:378)

Abdolghaher Baghdadi says:

“He is a jew and from Hireh , a city of Iraq"(ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﺑﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﻟﻌﺒﺪ ﺍﻟﻘﺎﻫﺮ ﺍﻟﺒﻐﺪﺍﺩﻱ، (ﺹ143

It means that someone says he is from Iraq and another says he is from Yemen. , Someone says, he is from Rome. You Sunnis need to get your facts right. Get yourselves and your backyard in order first before throwing accusations around.

“He was a jew and became a Muslim apparently in the time of Osman and revolt against Osman that leads to Osman’s death"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3,page:378)

According to Tabari he put an end to Osman's Caliphate. Actually put an end to Osman's life. He was responsible for his murder.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2019, 06:22:25 PM
Saqifa hasn't destroyed anything apart from turning the system of Caliphate into a mess. Ibn Saba is a fictional character created by propagandists just to divert attention.

"Abdollah Ibn Saba was a jew from Sanaa of Yemen and his mother was a black woman"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3.page:378)

Abdolghaher Baghdadi says:

“He is a jew and from Hireh , a city of Iraq"(ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﺑﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﻟﻌﺒﺪ ﺍﻟﻘﺎﻫﺮ ﺍﻟﺒﻐﺪﺍﺩﻱ، (ﺹ143

It means that someone says he is from Iraq and another says he is from Yemen. , Someone says, he is from Rome. You Sunnis need to get your facts right. Get yourselves and your backyard in order first before throwing accusations around.

“He was a jew and became a Muslim apparently in the time of Osman and revolt against Osman that leads to Osman’s death"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3,page:378)

According to Tabari he put an end to Osman's Caliphate. Actually put an end to Osman's life. He was responsible for his murder.

Lol you use history of tabari who says he can’t substantiate whatever is in his book.😂😂😂

When bro Muslim720 gave you a hadith an authentic one by Shiite standards an imam agreeing with punishing non zakah payers in line with Sunni........you threw that straight to the dustbin didn’t ya.😜

Look at this HYPOCRISY lol first you lied and tried being deceitful and then when confronted you didn’t even feel shame and now you have turned into a hypocrite.

No wonder no one takes you seriously.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2019, 06:24:02 PM
The sheer desperation of the followers of ibn Saba lol.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 10:40:04 PM
Lol you use history of tabari who says he can’t substantiate whatever is in his book.😂😂😂

When bro Muslim720 gave you a hadith an authentic one by Shiite standards an imam agreeing with punishing non zakah payers in line with Sunni........you threw that straight to the dustbin didn’t ya.😜

Look at this HYPOCRISY lol first you lied and tried being deceitful and then when confronted you didn’t even feel shame and now you have turned into a hypocrite.

No wonder no one takes you seriously.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

"Lol you use history of tabari who says he can’t substantiate whatever is in his book"

Well some Sunni scholar we have here. Can't say much about your scholars and books then. Thanks for pointing this out. 😊

"by Shiite standards an imam agreeing with punishing non zakah payers in line with Sunni..."

Yes, I know which one you mean. The one he couldn't back from the Qur'an. 😊

"you threw that straight to the dustbin didn’t ya"

NO, Astaghfirullah. I threw that straight and direct towards the QUR'AN 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 10:42:12 PM
The sheer desperation of the followers of ibn Saba lol.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

According to history and especially your books Ibn Saba opposed the third Caliph and Muawiya opposed the 4th. These two really told you what they think of Caliphate 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 16, 2019, 12:37:16 AM
According to history and especially your books Ibn Saba opposed the third Caliph and Muawiya opposed the 4th. These two really told you what they think of Caliphate 😊

Well he got burnt didn’t he by the caliph imam Ali ra to death whilst calling Ameer Muawiya ra as a Muslim followed by His son who gave up His divine caliphate to Ameer Muawiya ra.These two really told you that saqifa was the way forward and truth prevails.

There was no divine imam ruling Muslims chuck.......ibn Saba fooled you 😉

Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2019, 08:49:28 AM
Well he got burnt didn’t he by the caliph imam Ali ra to death whilst calling Ameer Muawiya ra as a Muslim followed by His son who gave up His divine caliphate to Ameer Muawiya ra.These two really told you that saqifa was the way forward and truth prevails.

There was no divine imam ruling Muslims chuck.......ibn Saba fooled you 😉

Nope. Saqifa has totally misguided you. Hasty, coincidental and immature decisions always do 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 16, 2019, 10:35:19 AM
Nope. Saqifa has totally misguided you. Hasty, coincidental and immature decisions always do 😊

Hahaha is that all? 😂😂😂😂  good luck with your divine concept that never existed in book or reality.😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2019, 11:08:55 AM
Hahaha is that all? 😂😂😂😂  good luck with your divine concept that never existed in book or reality.😂😂😂😂

It exists and always will. And we don't need luck, you do. In the hereafter 😊
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 16, 2019, 01:14:31 PM
It exists and always will. And we don't need luck, you do. In the hereafter 😊

It exists in your minds, believing in something doesn’t make it REAL!😜you failed miserably in proving it from a book a prophet or in reality, good luck in the hereafter believing in such crap.👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 09:39:15 PM
It exists in your minds, believing in something doesn’t make it REAL!😜you failed miserably in proving it from a book a prophet or in reality, good luck in the hereafter believing in such crap.👍

Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed. 😊 Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus is in occultation and will reappear. 😊 Go on, give it a shot. 😆
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 20, 2019, 10:19:58 PM
Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed. 😊 Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus is in occultation and will reappear. 😊 Go on, give it a shot. 😆

Let’s start from the beginning First of all Isa as IS mentioned in the Quran as well as the bible, NO divine imam names have been mentioned in no religious holy text.
Can you prove from the bible there is such a divine imam to come?
Since you failed miserably in your feeble attempts to prove it from the Quran.

Go on give it a shot😜👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 10:43:14 PM
Let’s start from the beginning First of all Isa as IS mentioned in the Quran as well as the bible, NO divine imam names have been mentioned in no religious holy text.
Can you prove from the bible there is such a divine imam to come?
Since you failed miserably in your feeble attempts to prove it from the Quran.

Go on give it a shot😜👍

You didn’t answer my question. Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed and neither was he crucified. In fact Allah uplifted him.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 20, 2019, 10:48:38 PM
You didn’t answer my question. Can you prove from the Bible that Muhammed al Mahdi existed or Allah swt uplifted him.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 11:40:54 PM


I know. You don't need to tell me. Now I've got you running. DON'T DEMAND WHEN YOU CAN'T DELIVER.

The Christians want you to prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed nor was he crucified. But in fact God uplifted him. Or why didn't God just mention this in Bible?

That would have been more easier to understand and accept rather than keeping the Christians believing in something that actually didn't happen.
for hundreds of years to come.

You want me to prove from the Qur'an about something  (occultation of Al Mahdi) that happened a few hundred years after. But you can't prove to the Christians from the Bible which happened there and then. 😊

I'll always get the better of you. And I'm always ready and well equipped for yeh. This is way way above your intellectual level. No wonder your top guns are no where to be seen and have left you to get on and make a circus of it.

Because you're their only means of survival. It's the only way you can hang on.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 21, 2019, 12:12:34 PM
I know. You don't need to tell me. Now I've got you running. DON'T DEMAND WHEN YOU CAN'T DELIVER.

The Christians want you to prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed nor was he crucified. But in fact God uplifted him. Or why didn't God just mention this in Bible?

That would have been more easier to understand and accept rather than keeping the Christians believing in something that actually didn't happen.
for hundreds of years to come.

You want me to prove from the Qur'an about something  (occultation of Al Mahdi) that happened a few hundred years after. But you can't prove to the Christians from the Bible which happened there and then. 😊

I'll always get the better of you. And I'm always ready and well equipped for yeh. This is way way above your intellectual level. No wonder your top guns are no where to be seen and have left you to get on and make a circus of it.

Because you're their only means of survival. It's the only way you can hang on.

I didn’t demand I asked for you to provide proof of divine Imamate which you have failed to provide.

I asked you to do the same with bible and Torah and you still haven’t got anything.

Why don’t you start from the basics.....where is the last divine mentioned in NAME, Isa as is mentioned in NAME in all the holy books, you are jumping to attributes of a prophet and using that as evidence to justify your belief in the last divine imam. It doesn’t work like that.

The ONLY time you will get better of me is when you can provide CLEAR evidences of divine Imamate not no copy/paste jobs which you can’t defend either........until then enjoy your fake glory.👍

Top guns are enjoying your show trust me they are propbably sat reading your posts and enjoy how you twist and turn verses to create a divine being while munching on a bag of popcorn.😉

You are the main attraction.😊👍
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 21, 2019, 11:56:26 PM
I didn’t demand I asked for you to provide proof of divine Imamate which you have failed to provide.

I asked you to do the same with bible and Torah and you still haven’t got anything.

Why don’t you start from the basics.....where is the last divine mentioned in NAME, Isa as is mentioned in NAME in all the holy books, you are jumping to attributes of a prophet and using that as evidence to justify your belief in the last divine imam. It doesn’t work like that.

The ONLY time you will get better of me is when you can provide CLEAR evidences of divine Imamate not no copy/paste jobs which you can’t defend either........until then enjoy your fake glory.👍

Top guns are enjoying your show trust me they are propbably sat reading your posts and enjoy how you twist and turn verses to create a divine being while munching on a bag of popcorn.😉

You are the main attraction.😊👍


"I didn’t demand I asked for you to provide proof of divine Imamate which you have failed to provide"

I've done it many times over now. Your ignorance won't allow you to accept what's in the Qur'an right in front of you.

"while munching on a bag of popcorn"

You've definitely got that right. What else can they do. That's all they're good at. 😆
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 22, 2019, 12:50:29 AM
In Bukhari we read that the prophet prohibited the salat at certain times of the day! This sounds unbelievable since it is a prohibition that has no reference aywhere in the Quran.

Moreover, it is totally absurd to think that a genuine messenger would prohibit an act of worship of God at certain times of the day!

Sehih Bukhari
Volume 2, Book 26, Number 695 :
Narrated by Abdullah
"Heard the Prophet forbidding the offering of prayers at the time of sunrise and sunset"

A question to Sunnis, can you elaborate on the above narration.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 22, 2019, 01:07:10 AM
Sehih Bukhari
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 119 :
Narrated by Ibn 'Abbas
I had been eager to ask 'Umar bin Al-Khattab about the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said 'If you two (wives of the Prophet namely Aisha and Hafsa) turn in repentance to Allah, your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes). (66.4) till 'Umar performed the Hajj and I too, performed the Hajj along with him. (On the way) 'Umar went aside to answer the call of nature, and I also went aside along with him carrying a tumbler full of water, and when 'Umar had finished answering the call of nature, I poured water over his hands and he performed the ablution.

Then I said to him, "O chief of the Believers! Who were the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said: 'If you two (wives of the Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes)?" (66.4) He said, "I am astonished at your question, O Ibn Abbas. They were 'Aisha and Hafsa." Then 'Umar went on narrating the Hadith and said, "I and an Ansari neighbor of mine from Bani Umaiyya bin Zaid who used to live in Awali-al-Medina, used to visit the Prophet in turn. He used to go one day and I another day. When I went, I would bring him the news of what had happened that day regarding the Divine Inspiration and other things, and when he went, he used to do the same for me. We, the people of Quraish used to have the upper hand over our wives, but when we came to the Ansar, we found that their women had the upper hand over their men, so our women also started learning the ways of the Ansari women. I shouted at my wife and she retorted against me and I disliked that she should answer me back.

She said to me, 'Why are you so surprised at my answering you back? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet answer him back and some of them may leave (does not speak to) him throughout the day till the night.' The (talk) scared me and I said to her, 'Whoever has done so will be ruined!' Then I proceeded after dressing myself, and entered upon Hafsa and said to her, 'Does anyone of you keep the Prophet angry till night?' She said, 'Yes.' I said, 'You are a ruined losing person! Don't you fear that Allah may get angry for the anger of Allah's Apostle and thus you will be ruined? So do not ask more from the Prophet and do not answer him back and do not give up talking to him. Ask me whatever you need and do not be tempted to imitate your neighbor (i.e., 'Aisha) in her manners for she is more charming than you and more beloved to the Prophet ." Umar added,"At that time a talk was circulating among us that (the tribe of) Ghassan were preparing their horses to invade us.

My Ansari companion, on the day of his turn, went (to the town) and returned to us at night and knocked at my door violently and asked if I was there. I became horrified and came out to him. He said, 'Today a great thing has happened.' I asked, 'What is it? Have (the people of) Ghassan come?' He said, 'No, but (What has happened) is greater and more horrifying than that: Allah's Apostle; has divorced his wives. 'Umar added, "The Prophet kept away from his wives and I said "Hafsa is a ruined loser.' I had already thought that most probably this (divorce) would happen in the near future. So I dressed myself and offered the morning prayer with the Prophet and then the Prophet; entered an upper room and stayed there in seclusion. I entered upon Hafsa and saw her weeping.

I asked, 'What makes you weep? Did I not warn you about that? Did the Prophet divorce you all?' She said, 'I do not know. There he is retired alone in the upper room.' I came out and sat near the pulpit and saw a group of people sitting around it and some of them were weeping. I sat with them for a while but could not endure the situation, so I went to the upper room where the Prophet; was and said to a black slave of his, 'Will you get the permission (of the Prophet ) for 'Umar (to enter)?' The slave went in, talked to the Prophet about it and then returned saying, 'I have spoken to the Prophet and mentioned you but he kept quiet.' Then I returned and sat with the group of people sitting near the pulpit. but I could not bear the situation and once again I said to the slave, 'Will you get the permission for 'Umar?'

He went in and returned saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he kept quiet.' So I returned again and sat with the group of people sitting near the pulpit, but I could not bear the situation, and so I went to the slave and said, 'Will you get the permission for 'Umar?' He went in and returned to me saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he kept quiet.' When I was leaving, behold! The slave called me, saying, 'The Prophet has given you permission.' Then I entered upon Allah's Apostle and saw him Lying on a bed made of stalks of date palm leaves and there was no bedding between it and him.

The stalks left marks on his side and he was leaning on a leather pillow stuffed with date-palm fires. I greeted him and while still standing I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Have you divorced your wives?' He looked at me and said, 'No.' I said, 'Allah Akbar!' And then, while still standing, I said chatting, 'Will you heed what I say, O Allah's Apostle? We, the people of Quraish used to have power over our women, but when we arrived at Medina we found that the men (here) were overpowered by their women.'

The Prophet smiled and then I said to him, 'Will you heed what I say, O Allah's Apostle? I entered upon Hafsa and said to her, "Do not be tempted to imitate your companion ('Aisha), for she is more charming than you and more beloved to the Prophet.' " The Prophet smiled for a second time. When I saw him smiling, I sat down. Then I looked around his house, and by Allah, I could not see anything of importance in his house except three hides, so I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Invoke Allah to make your followers rich, for the Persians and the Romans have been made prosperous and they have been given (the pleasures of the world), although they do not worship Allah.' Thereupon the Prophet sat up as he was reclining. and said, 'Are you of such an opinion, O the son of Al-Khattab? These are the people who have received the rewards for their good deeds in this world.' I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Ask Allah to forgive me.' Then the Prophet kept away from his wives for twenty-nine days because of the story which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha. The Prophet had said, 'I will not enter upon them (my wives) for one month,' because of his anger towards them, when Allah had admonished him. So, when twenty nine days had passed, the Prophet first entered upon 'Aisha.

'Aisha said to him, 'O Allah's Apostle! You had sworn that you would not enter upon us for one month, but now only twenty-nine days have passed, for I have been counting them one by one.' The Prophet said, 'The (present) month is of twenty nine days.' 'Aisha added, 'Then Allah revealed the Verses of the option. (2) And out of all his-wives he asked me first, and I chose him.' Then he gave option to his other wives and they said what 'Aisha had said . " (1) The Prophet, ' had decided to abstain from eating a certain kind of food because of a certain event, so Allah blamed him for doing so. Some of his wives were the cause of him taking that decision, therefore he deserted them for one month. See Quran: (66.4)
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Muslimah on February 05, 2019, 11:47:24 AM
After doing matam or crying for Ahlul Bayt do you guys feel depressed or feel like being watched? Do the gem stones you wear help you in anyway?
Doing matam is a invitation for jinns to enter your body.
The gem stones attracts negative energy.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on February 14, 2019, 11:54:11 PM
Doing matam is a invitation for jinns to enter your body.
The gem stones attracts negative energy.

How many people do you know who do Matam and Jinns have entered their body and they're possessed by Jinns? 😊 Any reference on gem stones attracting negative energy?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Muslimah on February 16, 2019, 02:06:52 PM
How many people do you know who do Matam and Jinns have entered their body and they're possessed by Jinns? 😊 Any reference on gem stones attracting negative energy?
I know plenty of people who got possessed after doing matam. When Shia do matam they became extremely upset. Jinns possess you when you are in that state.
Gem stones are used to attract entities and they attract negative ones.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on February 18, 2019, 01:07:57 AM
I know plenty of people who got possessed after doing matam. When Shia do matam they became extremely upset. Jinns possess you when you are in that state.
Gem stones are used to attract entities and they attract negative ones.

Are you a Shia and from the Shia community?
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Muslimah on February 21, 2019, 01:10:39 PM
Are you a Shia and from the Shia community?
I’m not a Shia but I do live in a Shia community.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on February 21, 2019, 03:29:59 PM
I’m not a Shia but I do live in a Shia community.

I'm a Shia but live in a mixed community. I've never ever been so desperate to make things up to undermine the other just because I don't like or get along with them.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Muslimah on February 22, 2019, 09:29:34 AM
I'm a Shia but live in a mixed community. I've never ever been so desperate to make things up to undermine the other just because I don't like or get along with them.
I’m not making anything up you fool. I don’t need to make the Shias look bad they do that by themselves.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on February 25, 2019, 02:13:38 AM
I’m not making anything up you fool. I don’t need to make the Shias look bad they do that by themselves.

No they don't. That's what you think. The things you say and put forward are just words which anyone can make and cone up with. All I see and get is air wind from you lot. Nothing solid and backed up. Anyone can make such comments and spread such rumours. Are you guys really that desperate.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on February 25, 2019, 03:41:13 PM
All I see and get is air wind from you lot. Nothing solid and backed up. Anyone can make such comments and spread such rumours. Are you guys really that desperate.

Says the guy who uses ibid and lies about what someone says.

Air wind? Are you stealing my phrase which I referred to YOU........”all hot air” I don’t know which school you went to using “air wind” as a phrase.

You are the biggest rumour spreader mate, spreading falsehood that you still cannot backup.

Hypocrite.

Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on February 26, 2019, 01:16:54 AM
Says the guy who uses ibid and lies about what someone says.

Air wind? Are you stealing my phrase which I referred to YOU........”all hot air” I don’t know which school you went to using “air wind” as a phrase.

You are the biggest rumour spreader mate, spreading falsehood that you still cannot backup.

Hypocrite.

Don't worry about my school. At least you acknowledge and accept that I WENT. You are still in it going by your attitude and behaviour. That's the difference. 😀
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on February 26, 2019, 02:08:15 PM
Don't worry about my school. At least you acknowledge and accept that I WENT. You are still in it going by your attitude and behaviour. That's the difference. 😀

Yea you went to a school that taught you LIES and now your academic achievements are showing in full glare from that school.

You can’t even answer a simple question so much for your education.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Muslimah on February 27, 2019, 01:59:10 PM
No they don't. That's what you think. The things you say and put forward are just words which anyone can make and cone up with. All I see and get is air wind from you lot. Nothing solid and backed up. Anyone can make such comments and spread such rumours. Are you guys really that desperate.
You want me to post videos to prove that I’m telling the truth?If the truth slapped in you in the face which it did many times you still wouldn’t believe it.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on February 27, 2019, 08:14:20 PM
You want me to post videos to prove that I’m telling the truth?If the truth slapped in you in the face which it did many times you still wouldn’t believe it.

I don't want you to do anything. It's your duty and responsibility to back up your fairytales. As far as slapping is concerned, no one can come close to doing that. You lot can't even get your facts right so slapping is out of the question.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: Muslimah on February 28, 2019, 02:07:20 AM
I don't want you to do anything. It's your duty and responsibility to back up your fairytales. As far as slapping is concerned, no one can come close to doing that. You lot can't even get your facts right so slapping is out of the question.
What fairytales? Matam really messed you up.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on February 28, 2019, 04:17:34 PM
What fairytales? Matam really messed you up.

You are wasting your time with Iceman.  With the exception of 2018, I spent every Muharram from 2012 - 2017 in Shi'i mosques and gatherings listening to their beliefs and witnessing their practices.  According to Iceman, however, they are all fairytales.  Perhaps he thinks I am paid to malign Shias when I have Shi'i (distant) relatives and friends.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: iceman on February 28, 2019, 04:36:34 PM
You are wasting your time with Iceman.  With the exception of 2018, I spent every Muharram from 2012 - 2017 in Shi'i mosques and gatherings listening to their beliefs and witnessing their practices.  According to Iceman, however, they are all fairytales.  Perhaps he thinks I am paid to malign Shias when I have Shi'i (distant) relatives and friends.

No. I didn’t mean or say that. What you say and put forward, ok never mind, what I say and put forward, I'm not going to ask you to just take my word for it. It's just words until I have something to back it up with. You are a Sunni and have spent time with Shias. That's fine. Although Sunnis have been raised and brought up in a way where they've been told negative stuff about Shias. Basically they are told not to mix with Shias. But I'll take your word for it.

Now if you tell me something which you have experienced about Shias, since I'm a Shia so I know if it's true or false. I will tell straight away. And my word has more weight than yours being a Shia. Vice versa, I believe exactly the same. And so should you. What's difficult to understand here. Or what's different for you to disagree with. Your limited knowledge and experience about my faith and community just on your words only means nothing and has no weight what so ever compared to my word. And the same applies vice versa.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on February 28, 2019, 04:46:07 PM
Although Sunnis have been raised and brought up in a way where they've been told negative stuff about Shias. Basically they are told not to mix with Shias.

Who would tell me negative stuff about, or not to mix with, Shias?  If what you say was remotely true, I would not have participated in activities at various Shi'i mosques which not only benefited me but also benefited those mosques.  You have only seen me go off on you.  Dig up my posts in which I have defended Shias on this very forum from the false accusations of drive-by members on TwelverShia (drive-by members = those who create an account to only copy-paste a long article mixing truth and falsehood regarding Shias and then disappear).

Quote
Now if you tell me something which you have experienced about Shias, since I'm a Shia so I know if it's true or false.

Ridiculous argument!  Do you know that being a Sunni, I had no knowledge of sahih ahaadith found in Sahihain like Hadith of Ghadeer Khum, Tragedy of Thursday (Pen and Paper), etc?  These were thrown at me by certain Shias to try to influence my judgment.  Does that mean these ahaadith do not exist or are lies because Shias knew about them but I did not?

It is quite possible for members from either group to know a thing or two about the opposite group not known by every single person in opposition.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: HakimPtsid on April 05, 2019, 10:43:37 AM
What I understand as a Non-12er, some people can envision their existence only as a victimized group; outside that, their anxiety would reach unbearable levels. This is why we see them eating, even listening to music and watching funny videos just before and after their sessions, sometimes even during the sessions - this is why it would be taken as a form of token of ritualized belonging within the community.

As a Twelver myself, I do agree with what you're saying here and I don't, personally, live myself in the victim mentality but I recognize very strongly historical precedent with the treatment of the Caliphs towards the early Shi'i and that there is a tendency of quite despicable oppressive behavior from Sunnis towards Shia.

My own relationship with Sunnis depends on the case-by-case basis. Most Sunnis are generally fine and get along but other Sunnis want to pick fights when they know you're a Shia.

As for the chest-bashing; it's not a practice I do, nor do I think all Shi'i do it. Still everything that time of remembrance represents in a more universal sense, I think is something deep within our hearts.
Title: Re: Question for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on April 05, 2019, 05:18:43 PM
My own relationship with Sunnis depends on the case-by-case basis. Most Sunnis are generally fine and get along but other Sunnis want to pick fights when they know you're a Shia.

Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

Welcome!

Actually, I was introduced to Shia-Sunni differences not because I researched but because a Shi'i neighbor - whose furniture we helped carry from the moving truck up to his third floor apartment for no other reason except they were Muslim - decided to inform me of Umar's (ra) crimes, among other things.  First, he tried to recruit me as a Dari and Pashto translator for the US Army in Afghanistan; he was doing the same task in Iraq.

Ever since, and I sound like a broken record for members here, I have been attending Shi'i mosques mostly during Muharram but also outside that month and not a meeting or lecture has gone by without the mention of Sunnis (or making reference to a Sunni text).  In all of my experiences at Sunni mosques, which would account for over 90% of my mosque visits, I have never heard anyone make mention of Shias.  So I do not know of any Sunni that likes to pick a fight with Shias except the latter walk around with a chip on their shoulders so large that they have to strawman Sunni literature and then knock them down to prove their (fake) superiority.