Question for Shias

[muslim720]

Muslim 720,

post #27,

"If you weren't such a pretentious, self-righteous turd,"

Post #30,

"Knowing how dumb you are,"

Post #37

"These are not tales, idiot!"

The above are just from this newly started thread only.

I can make a new thread asking members here to vote.  Of course you will play the victim card, that you are being singled out as a Shi'i, but I have no doubt in my mind that more than 90% of the votes will declare you an "idiot", "dumb", "pretentious self-righteous turd" of an individual.

All you do is tell us that we are wrong but can never prove it.  You tell us that we hate Shias but you can never quote our hatred.  Do you even know the difference between "hatred" and "criticism"?  We criticize Shia theology; don't know how you equate criticism with hate!

[iceman]

I can make a new thread asking members here to vote.  Of course you will play the victim card, that you are being singled out as a Shi'i, but I have no doubt in my mind that more than 90% of the votes will declare you an "idiot", "dumb", "pretentious self-righteous turd" of an individual.

All you do is tell us that we are wrong but can never prove it.  You tell us that we hate Shias but you can never quote our hatred.  Do you even know the difference between "hatred" and "criticism"?  We criticize Shia theology; don't know how you equate criticism with hate!

See what I mean, rather than admitting where you are wrong and at fault you come back with counter arguments. Why? Because this is an anti Shia website and all the haters of Shia are more than welcome to say and behave as they please. No check and balance. So why wouldn't you carry on.

Asking the members to vote? Of course, all are going to vote against me because they all will be anti Shia. Tell me otherwise. There will be no point of the vote apart from you patting yourself on the back and being amused.

I don't tell you that you're wrong it's actually you infact this entire site working on proving us wrong everywhere and in every way. You don't criticise but just hate. Why? Because where there is criticism there is also praise. But do we hear and see that from you?

If you are wrong here then you must be right or something must be right about you somewhere. Do you believe in that? Not when it comes to us.

[Mythbuster1]

Ok, so which farm is he and you from then? And what breed of animals are you 😊👍If my butt hurts then why is he jumping up and down 😊👍

I notice it’s YOU who jumps up and down and CANNOT even defend what you say or mean.😜

Only in farms are you bred like sheeple but when released..........YOU are the prime example.😉

[muslim720]

See what I mean, rather than admitting where you are wrong and at fault you come back with counter arguments.

How am I wrong?  You are an imbecile who cannot prove anything he believes or anything he claims against us.

Asking the members to vote? Of course, all are going to vote against me because they all will be anti Shia.

I already called it!  Way to be original!

Tell me otherwise. There will be no point of the vote apart from you patting yourself on the back and being amused.

I am not amused; I am saddened that a blind individual like yourself is counted among the Muslims.  In the other thread, for example, you did not bother to watch an entire 12-minute long video only because it mocked Zain, Raza and Syed Ali.  That did not sit well with you but all the kufr ascribed to Imam Ali (ra) and Ahlul Bayt (ra) did not draw your condemnation. 

You don't criticise but just hate. Why? Because where there is criticism there is also praise. But do we hear and see that from you?

You have never read me praise Shias?  You are a liar!

[iceman]

I notice it’s YOU who jumps up and down and CANNOT even defend what you say or mean.😜

Only in farms are you bred like sheeple but when released..........YOU are the prime example.😉

What have you answered or addressed, tell me? You keep bringing in IRRELEVANT STUFF to the thread and topic. As far as farms and sheep are concerned, I'm not going to reply to that because I'm not of your low level. You stay there and remain there. I ain't coming down to your low level to play tit for tat with you. Find someone of your nature and level for that.

[iceman]

How am I wrong?  You are an imbecile who cannot prove anything he believes or anything he claims against us.

I already called it!  Way to be original!

I am not amused; I am saddened that a blind individual like yourself is counted among the Muslims.  In the other thread, for example, you did not bother to watch an entire 12-minute long video only because it mocked Zain, Raza and Syed Ali.  That did not sit well with you but all the kufr ascribed to Imam Ali (ra) and Ahlul Bayt (ra) did not draw your condemnation. 

You have never read me praise Shias?  You are a liar!

And you are an absolute HATE MONGER and a complete PROPAGANDIST. And here's the evidence, because you can't find anything positive, useful or right about us.

You come up with counter arguments rather than answering and addressing. Then you come up with tales and stories that anyone can make up and you call it YOUR EXPERIENCE.

There is not one single thing that you've said about us which is accurate or true. You bring in silly clips or what ever else you can find and try and prove that this is what the Shia ideology and community is about. This is how desperate you are.

You boys start a thread by selecting a topic then you start bringing in IRRELEVANT STUFF and COUNTER ARGUMENTS because you can't answer and address. Hey, it's your site and it's your show. The admins and mods have to let you carry on and be otherwise there is no show.

Be honest with yourselves, you are nothing but propagandists. Why? Here's the evidence once again;

You pick up bits and pieces from here and there be it clips or what ever and you try to prove that this is the Shia ideology and community.

There is not one single thing that you can find which is positive, useful and right about us.

Where there is criticism there is also praise, where there is condemnation there is also honour, where there is wrong there is also right and where there is badness there is also goodness be it an individual, a group or party, a sect or faith, a regime or leadership or a country or community.

How do you view us? With absolute crticisism and condemnation. You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about us. And that is because of absolute hatred and nothing else.

You and your kind  have a grudge against us and you need to look for any excuse you can find to camouflage that. This has been going on since the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

[Mythbuster1]

What have you answered or addressed, tell me? You keep bringing in IRRELEVANT STUFF to the thread and topic. As far as farms and sheep are concerned, I'm not going to reply to that because I'm not of your low level. You stay there and remain there. I ain't coming down to your low level to play tit for tat with you. Find someone of your nature and level for that.

You already replied twice to the farm comment, your iq is quiet low I must admit.😉👍

[iceman]

You already replied twice to the farm comment, your iq is quiet low I must admit.😉👍

IT'S YOUR CIRCUS, IT'S YOUR SHOW. SO CARRY ON! 😊

[muslim720]

And you are an absolute HATE MONGER and a complete PROPAGANDIST. And here's the evidence, because you can't find anything positive, useful or right about us.

If I cannot find anything positive to say about you, does it necessarily mean that I am hate-monger?  It could be that there really isn't anything positive about you.  Language is so important.

You come up with counter arguments rather than answering and addressing. Then you come up with tales and stories that anyone can make up and you call it YOUR EXPERIENCE.

I come up with counter-arguments because your arguments are easily countered.  Thank you for admitting that!  And you can cast doubt on my experiences but you can never take them away or discredit them.  I know it burns you to know that I was on the fence and the most convincing evidences (that Sunni Islam is true Islam) came from my experiences at Shi'i mosques.

There is not one single thing that you've said about us which is accurate or true. You bring in silly clips or what ever else you can find and try and prove that this is what the Shia ideology and community is about. This is how desperate you are.

On one hand you say nothing I have said is accurate or true and on the other, you admit that I bring clips.  Well, who is featured in those clips, dimwit?  Shias!  And what do they utter in those clips?  Sheer kufr!  You have to take your concerns to them; don't waste my time.

Hey, it's your site and it's your show.

It is our show; it is our circus (as you said in another topic) and knowing that you are not enjoying the show (meaning, you are not a spectator), you must be the monkey then.  The one with the funny tricks!

Be honest with yourselves, you are nothing but propagandists. Why? Here's the evidence once again;

You pick up bits and pieces from here and there be it clips or what ever and you try to prove that this is the Shia ideology and community.

That is evidence?  Do you even know what evidence means?  Since you are extremely dumb, allow me to educate you more!  "You are nothing but propagandists" is your conclusion and "you pick up bits and pieces....." is your premise thereby making it your argument.  That is not evidence.  That is your argument (without proof), in other words, not evidence.  Argument = premise + conclusion!  You are welcome, you ungrateful turd!

Where there is criticism there is also praise, where there is condemnation there is also honour, where there is wrong there is also right and where there is badness there is also goodness be it an individual, a group or party, a sect or faith, a regime or leadership or a country or community.

Where there is badness, there is also goodness....would you apply that to Muawiya?  You won't!  In that case, as per your own judgment, you are a propagandist and a hate monger because while according to you there is goodness and badness in an individual, you only see it one way when it comes to Muawiya.

How do you view us? With absolute crticisism and condemnation. You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about us. And that is because of absolute hatred and nothing else.

How do you view Banu Umayyah?  With absolute criticism and condemnation.  You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about them.  And that is because of your absolute hatred and nothing else.

You and your kind  have a grudge against us and you need to look for any excuse you can find to camouflage that. This has been going on since the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

Camouflage?  I thought taqiyyah was 9/10 of your religion.  I thought the Imams (ra) practiced taqiyyah, in other words, camouflaged their beliefs whereas the "evil Sunni rulers" were openly disobeying Islam and crushing the opposition :/

[Mythbuster1]

IT'S YOUR CIRCUS, IT'S YOUR SHOW. SO CARRY ON! 😊

AND YOUR THE MAIN ATTRACTION IN MY SHOW😂👍

[iceman]

If I cannot find anything positive to say about you, does it necessarily mean that I am hate-monger?  It could be that there really isn't anything positive about you.  Language is so important.

I come up with counter-arguments because your arguments are easily countered.  Thank you for admitting that!  And you can cast doubt on my experiences but you can never take them away or discredit them.  I know it burns you to know that I was on the fence and the most convincing evidences (that Sunni Islam is true Islam) came from my experiences at Shi'i mosques.

On one hand you say nothing I have said is accurate or true and on the other, you admit that I bring clips.  Well, who is featured in those clips, dimwit?  Shias!  And what do they utter in those clips?  Sheer kufr!  You have to take your concerns to them; don't waste my time.

It is our show; it is our circus (as you said in another topic) and knowing that you are not enjoying the show (meaning, you are not a spectator), you must be the monkey then.  The one with the funny tricks!

That is evidence?  Do you even know what evidence means?  Since you are extremely dumb, allow me to educate you more!  "You are nothing but propagandists" is your conclusion and "you pick up bits and pieces....." is your premise thereby making it your argument.  That is not evidence.  That is your argument (without proof), in other words, not evidence.  Argument = premise + conclusion!  You are welcome, you ungrateful turd!

Where there is badness, there is also goodness....would you apply that to Muawiya?  You won't!  In that case, as per your own judgment, you are a propagandist and a hate monger because while according to you there is goodness and badness in an individual, you only see it one way when it comes to Muawiya.

How do you view Banu Umayyah?  With absolute criticism and condemnation.  You can see nothing useful, right, positive or good about them.  And that is because of your absolute hatred and nothing else.

Camouflage?  I thought taqiyyah was 9/10 of your religion.  I thought the Imams (ra) practiced taqiyyah, in other words, camouflaged their beliefs whereas the "evil Sunni rulers" were openly disobeying Islam and crushing the opposition :/

"If I cannot find anything positive to say about you, does it necessarily mean that I am hate-monger?  It could be that there really isn't anything positive about you.  Language is so important"

Point 1, 'DOES IT NECESSARILY MEAN...' and point 2, IT COULD BE THAT THERE...' 
It clearly sounds you go by assumption. And I go by reality and facts.

And "Language is so important" Well yes it is. Take a look at how filthy yours is. You come up with counter arguments because you are too afraid to answer and address. That is why you come up with counter arguments.

"And you can cast doubt on my experiences but you can never take them away or discredit them"

I cast doubt on your tales because there is no credibility in what you put forward. Anybody can come up with such. In fact there is no truth in your tales since I am a member of that community. You know my community better than me. It's like I know your house better than you.

"I know it burns you to know that I was on the fence and the most convincing evidences (that Sunni Islam is true Islam) came from my experiences at Shi'i mosques."

Nothing burns or bothers me. You should know that by now. I am a very calm and  composed individual with a level head. Sunni Islam is the true Islam. Which Sunni Islam are we talking about. You have many schools of thought and many sects with many political movements, some accusing others of Kufr.

"On one hand you say nothing I have said is accurate or true and on the other, you admit that I bring clips.  Well, who is featured in those clips, dimwit?  Shias!  And what do they utter in those clips?  Sheer kufr!  You have to take your concerns to them; don't waste my time"

Like I said before don't bring in bits and pieces and start giving it your own meaning and understanding or trying to prove that this is what the Shia community and faith is all about based on bits and pieces. Is the Saudi regime what the Ahle Sunnah or what your Islamic Caliphate is all about? If we started saying YES then?

"you must be the monkey then", "you ungrateful turd!"

You can say what ever you want. Language is very important and I can see that. 😊

"you only see it one way when it comes to Muawiya."

No I don't. Can you prove that? Well you haven't proven anything till now so what can I expect. COUNTER ARGUMENTS 😊

"How do you view Banu Umayyah?  With absolute criticism and condemnation"

If that's what you think then you're absolutely wrong.

"I thought taqiyyah was 9/10 of your religion.  I thought the Imams (ra) practiced taqiyyah,"

You THOUGHT and you THOUGHT? Stop thinking and assuming because that's all you do. Do some research and go by reality and facts. 😊

[muslim720]

Point 1, 'DOES IT NECESSARILY MEAN...' and point 2, IT COULD BE THAT THERE...' 
It clearly sounds you go by assumption. And I go by reality and facts.

I am not surprised that issuing statements is akin "reality and facts" in your world.  It is no wonder that you write Fadak for Fatima (ra) when all the "reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side.  You are doing something very similar here; taking your own claim as factual reality.

And "Language is so important" Well yes it is. Take a look at how filthy yours is.

Clearly you did not understand my conclusive statement that "language is so important".  It is not your fault; you were raised on hate-speech, perhaps they even made you take part in passion-story plays revolving around the events of Karbala.  I wonder if they dressed you to play the role of one of the soldiers of Yazeed. 

You come up with counter arguments because you are too afraid to answer and address. That is why you come up with counter arguments.

Logical fallacies and fairy-tale beliefs are not answered; they are countered. 

I cast doubt on your tales because there is no credibility in what you put forward. Anybody can come up with such. In fact there is no truth in your tales since I am a member of that community. You know my community better than me. It's like I know your house better than you.

When did I say that I know your community better than you?  All I am saying is that I know your community, and its beliefs, more than the average Sunni so your cop-out tactic that "Sunnis do not know much about us" does nothing for you in my case. 

Every so often you see Shias requesting Sunnis not to assume anything about them and to give them a chance (by sitting in one of their majaalis).  Well, I am already beyond that so your cop-out will not work against me.

Nothing burns or bothers me. You should know that by now. I am a very calm and  composed individual with a level head. Sunni Islam is the true Islam. Which Sunni Islam are we talking about. You have many schools of thought and many sects with many political movements, some accusing others of Kufr.

Alhamdulilah, we have many schools of thought, most of them differing on matters of fiqh.  To answer your question, all Sunni schools follow the true Islam (when it comes to fundamentals).  The most misguided Sunni school is more upon Islam than your most looked up to and most subscribed to Shi'i marja'.

Like I said before don't bring in bits and pieces and start giving it your own meaning and understanding or trying to prove that this is what the Shia community and faith is all about based on bits and pieces.

You lowlife scum!  What other meaning or understanding can you ascribe to a statement which says that Imam Ali (ra) is sitting upon The Throne?  That he created the Earth, etc?  That he will judge us in the Hereafter?

This your third or fifth post mentioning that video clip without condemning any of the statements uttered in those videos.  And then you wonder why some Sunnis call you kafir.

Is the Saudi regime what the Ahle Sunnah or what your Islamic Caliphate is all about? If we started saying YES then?

There is no Caliphate in Saudi Arabia and Caliphate isn't from the foundations of our religion.

You can say what ever you want. Language is very important and I can see that. 😊

Exactly!  If you had mastered a language, you would not have been hired as a monkey at a circus.

No I don't.

Very good!  Since you do not see it one-way when it comes to Muawiya, we can both agree that he did good and bad things.  As dumb as you are, you are starting to recognize the Sunni stance to be true. 

I am glad you have a newfound liking and appreciation for Muawiya.

If that's what you think then you're absolutely wrong.

Surprised me again!  Alhamdulilah...you agree that Banu Umayyah, along with bad things, did good things.  Falling right into the trap, lol.

You THOUGHT and you THOUGHT? Stop thinking and assuming because that's all you do. Do some research and go by reality and facts. 😊

Choke on this!

"Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah (dissimulation), hence one who does not dissimulate has no religion." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.110)

[iceman]

I am not surprised that issuing statements is akin "reality and facts" in your world.  It is no wonder that you write Fadak for Fatima (ra) when all the "reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side.  You are doing something very similar here; taking your own claim as factual reality.

Clearly you did not understand my conclusive statement that "language is so important".  It is not your fault; you were raised on hate-speech, perhaps they even made you take part in passion-story plays revolving around the events of Karbala.  I wonder if they dressed you to play the role of one of the soldiers of Yazeed. 

Logical fallacies and fairy-tale beliefs are not answered; they are countered. 

When did I say that I know your community better than you?  All I am saying is that I know your community, and its beliefs, more than the average Sunni so your cop-out tactic that "Sunnis do not know much about us" does nothing for you in my case. 

Every so often you see Shias requesting Sunnis not to assume anything about them and to give them a chance (by sitting in one of their majaalis).  Well, I am already beyond that so your cop-out will not work against me.

Alhamdulilah, we have many schools of thought, most of them differing on matters of fiqh.  To answer your question, all Sunni schools follow the true Islam (when it comes to fundamentals).  The most misguided Sunni school is more upon Islam than your most looked up to and most subscribed to Shi'i marja'.

You lowlife scum!  What other meaning or understanding can you ascribe to a statement which says that Imam Ali (ra) is sitting upon The Throne?  That he created the Earth, etc?  That he will judge us in the Hereafter?

This your third or fifth post mentioning that video clip without condemning any of the statements uttered in those videos.  And then you wonder why some Sunnis call you kafir.

There is no Caliphate in Saudi Arabia and Caliphate isn't from the foundations of our religion.

Exactly!  If you had mastered a language, you would not have been hired as a monkey at a circus.

Very good!  Since you do not see it one-way when it comes to Muawiya, we can both agree that he did good and bad things.  As dumb as you are, you are starting to recognize the Sunni stance to be true. 

I am glad you have a newfound liking and appreciation for Muawiya.

Surprised me again!  Alhamdulilah...you agree that Banu Umayyah, along with bad things, did good things.  Falling right into the trap, lol.

Choke on this!

"Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah (dissimulation), hence one who does not dissimulate has no religion." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.110)

"I am not surprised that issuing statements is akin "reality and facts" in your world"

My statements are based on reality and facts and logic and reason. Yours are on assumption and theories or tales and stories, which have no credibility what so ever. You can call it experience or what ever you like. But the things you say and put forward as experience is far from reality.

"It is no wonder that you write Fadak for Fatima (ra) when all the "reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side.

Fadak, Fatima and Abu Bakr? There you go again and see what I mean. You bring in irrelevant stuff which has got nothing to do with the thread and what we're discussing. It definitely looks and sounds like Shiaism is really eating you up inside out.

"reality and facts" were on Abu Bakr's (ra) side"

😀 Gosh, really. What world are you living in. How on earth did you come to that conclusion. Your entire faith evolves around the Shaykhain and what they did and got up to after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

All you do is try to protect and defend them no matter how many twist and turns you need to do or how dishonest you have to become.

"It is not your fault; you were raised on hate-speech"

Can you back this up? I don't think you can. Infact you are raised on hate-speech and I will back this up. And here is the evidence;

"Choke on this!" "As dumb as you are",
"If you had mastered a language, you would not have been hired as a monkey at a circus" "You lowlife scum!" And all this just in one of your posts.

"perhaps they even made you take part in passion-story plays"

PERHAPS? It's either PERHAPS or ASSUME or PROBABLY or YOU THINK etc. That's all I seem to be getting from you.

"Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah"

Is it? So you know my religion better than me?

"Falling right into the trap, lol."

I'm not falling into any trap. Just being honest. Something you can't do. Trap? Are you discussing or hunting? 😊

"you are starting to recognize the Sunni stance to be true."

The Sunni stance has elements of hypocrisy and double standards on various matters. You want to talk about it then I willing to back this up. Unlike you.

"Logical fallacies and fairy-tale beliefs"

This is exactly what your so called experience and information about us is based on.

"Caliphate isn't from the foundations of our religion"

Then why are you so hellbent in protecting it?

"This your third or fifth post mentioning that video clip without condemning any of the statements uttered in those videos.  And then you wonder why some Sunnis call you kafir"

That video doesn't represent the Shia faith and belief nor the Shia community at large. What's in it, talk about it and I'll be more than happy to discuss it. Talk about it. Don't grudge about it.

[muslim720]

My statements are based on reality and facts and logic and reason.

...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

Fadak, Fatima and Abu Bakr? There you go again and see what I mean. You bring in irrelevant stuff which has got nothing to do with the thread and what we're discussing.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

It definitely looks and sounds like Shiaism is really eating you up inside out.

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

😀 Gosh, really. What world are you living in. How on earth did you come to that conclusion.

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

Your entire faith evolves around the Shaykhain and what they did and got up to after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

All you do is try to protect and defend them no matter how many twist and turns you need to do or how dishonest you have to become.

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

Is it? So you know my religion better than me?

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

I'm not falling into any trap. Just being honest. Something you can't do. Trap? Are you discussing or hunting? 😊

Hunting!

The Sunni stance has elements of hypocrisy and double standards on various matters. You want to talk about it then I willing to back this up. Unlike you.

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

Then why are you so hellbent in protecting it?

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

That video doesn't represent the Shia faith and belief nor the Shia community at large. What's in it, talk about it and I'll be more than happy to discuss it.

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?

[iceman]

...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

Hunting!

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?

"and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs"

We've done much more than defend and prove since we've got people desperately working against us and our belief. No community or faith such as us as ever received so much propaganda and resistance than us.

"The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!"

First of all that's not the point. You're still bringing in irrelevant stuff to the thread and what is being discussed. Still no excuse.  Secondly baseless claim? Failed?  You're blowing your own trumpet. Prove it. All you do is a hit and run job. That's what most of you do.

"Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!"

Nothing eats me up. Can't you see by the amount of filth you spill on me. Seen any reaction from me? Not the slightest. And you won't get one. Why? You know that. It's where I take my faith from and where you take yours from. Attitude and behaviour tells a lot about a person.

[iceman]

...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

Hunting!

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?

"On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak"

The Imams don't get personal and most certainly do not use authority and power to set personal or desired scores. The Caliphs and other individuals did that.

And  if you call this winning and what the Imams did and how they acted and behaved as loosing then goodluck to you and your thinking.

"Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak"

I disagree with that. And you can carry on believing in it.

"We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning"

It doesn't matter whether it's Abu Bakr, Umar, Muawiya or anyone else, if you believe getting your way and doing what ever it takes to get it is winning then goodluck with your thinking. Subhanallah 😊

"I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!"

They pushed to get their way. And if anyone opposed them then Muawiya would have been nothing compared to them.

The ones who differed with the Shaykhain or those in authority were patient, tolerant and farsighted be it Ali, Fatima, Hassan or Hussain. But the ones who differed with Ali and Hassan when they were in authority what did they do? That is Muawiya, Aisha, Talah etc?

You don't have a clue what you're on about, do you. Because you speak with grudge.

"You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system"

Mind your language boy. Illogical system hey. You talk wind.

"So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol."

If you think that we believe they never ever did anything right or good and there wasn't a decent bone in their body then you need to think again. That's how you think especially about us.

"I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system"

I never said Caliphate was an evil system because Adam was a Caliph. He was part of the Caliphate system. All I'm saying is the decision made in Saqifa wasn't legitimate. And you don't have a method and procedure when it comes to Shura on choosing a leader.

[iceman]

...and you cannot even defend, let alone prove, your most fundamental beliefs.

The reason why I brought it up is because it follows the same line of reasoning.  A Shi'i baseless claim trying to be passed off as proof.  Fail!

Not nearly as much as Fadak has eaten you up.  Over 1400 years and your hiding Imam cannot even reclaim it, let alone guide you, lol!

On the basis that your own Imams (ra) when in power did not reverse the status of Fadak.  What a catastrophe for you!  Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) sided with Abu Bakr (ra) over Fatima (ra) in matters related to Fadak.

We keep winning and you keep burning, lol!  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) reversed Imam Ali's (ra) "Divine Authority" and claimed the Caliphate.  #SoMuchWinning

I neither protect nor defend them.  They protected and defended their own selves against three infallible superhuman beings.  Actually 4, if we include Fatima (ra).  And they kept on winning!

You are unlucky on two fronts.  You are an extreme idiot born to follow an illogical system.

Hunting!

So long as you admit that Muawiya and Banu Umayyah did good deeds, lol.

I am willing to concede that Caliphate was an evil system.  Then you will have to concede that Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) were members of an evil system.

Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!

Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?

"Countless times I have done this, you spineless retard and never have I had an answer from you.  I can concede so much on my faith and it will still stand firm whereas you cannot concede a single bit.  Doing so will cause your entire theology to collapse.  And that is the difference between haqq and baatil!"

I've always answered and addressed. Rather than constantly accusing me point out what I haven't answered or addressed. Our theology is firm and straightforward where as yours is full of double standards and twist and turns. You can't stick to one thing because the Sahaba didn't stick to one thing. That's where your problem is.

"Don't discuss it.  Just tell me this, if you met those individuals (those speaking in that video clip), what would you tell them?"

If I met them I would like to ask them to get to know more about why. I'm not like you since I don't hold a grudge to begin with.

[muslim720]

We've done much more than defend and prove since we've got people desperately working against us and our belief.

Indeed you defend and prove your theology in alleged debates that are oft-repeated (as feel-good stories) within your gatherings.  Outside your gatherings, in fact within your own mosques, when confronted by someone with a bit of knowledge, your wheels come off.

No community or faith such as us as ever received so much propaganda and resistance than us.

Salaavot!  Keep telling yourself that because there is no progress and the hidden one ain't coming out.

First of all that's not the point. You're still bringing in irrelevant stuff to the thread and what is being discussed.

It is quite relevant the way I see it.

All you do is a hit and run job. That's what most of you do.

Hit-and-run is still better than what the hidden one is doing.  He is just hiding; won't even come out for one hit.  The legacy left behind by Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) still shakes him to his core, lol.

Nothing eats me up. Can't you see by the amount of filth you spill on me. Seen any reaction from me? Not the slightest.

That is because, among many other things, you lack knowledge and do not possess the testicular fortitude to even begin a discussion.  You are quite happy with these petty back-n-forths and I entertain you because I like to see how shallow your understanding of Islam is and how deep your ignorance is.

The Imams don't get personal and most certainly do not use authority and power to set personal or desired scores. The Caliphs and other individuals did that.

Imams (ra) don't get personal?  But you claim Fadak was their right?  They would not even claim their own right?  As said before, I refuse to follow such incompetent leaders under the flagship of a ridiculous concept (Imamah).

And  if you call this winning and what the Imams did and how they acted and behaved as loosing then goodluck to you and your thinking.

This is winning!  Ordinary people were able to outsmart and outwork superhuman individuals, who were Divinely-Appointed, Divinely-Aided and Divinely-Guided, at every turn.  With or without worldly powers, the Imams (ra) failed, if I accept your fundamentals of theology.

I disagree with that. And you can carry on believing in it.

You can disagree all you want but the fact of the matter is that neither Imam Ali (ra) nor Imam Hassan (ra) reversed the decision of Abu Bakr (ra).  For centuries you all have cursed Abu Bakr (ra).  Time to add your first two Imams (ra) to your list of cursed individuals or exonerate Abu Bakr (ra).

They pushed to get their way.

Congratulations for declaring your "infallibles" (ra) to be pushovers, lol.  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) pushed to get their way and your "infallibles" (ra) just laid down for them to roll right over them.

The ones who differed with the Shaykhain or those in authority were patient, tolerant and farsighted be it Ali, Fatima, Hassan or Hussain.

....but first and foremost, pushovers, as per your assessment.

All I'm saying is the decision made in Saqifa wasn't legitimate. And you don't have a method and procedure when it comes to Shura on choosing a leader.

No problem; the decision made at Saqifa, in other words the concept of Shura on choosing a leader, was not legitimate.  Imam Ali (ra), too, was elected by the same process.  In other words, my point stands.  According to you, Imam Ali (ra) partook in an illegitimate process.

If I met them I would like to ask them to get to know more about why. I'm not like you since I don't hold a grudge to begin with.

You would kiss their feet because it is quite clear you have no issues with anything they said.

[iceman]

Indeed you defend and prove your theology in alleged debates that are oft-repeated (as feel-good stories) within your gatherings.  Outside your gatherings, in fact within your own mosques, when confronted by someone with a bit of knowledge, your wheels come off.

Salaavot!  Keep telling yourself that because there is no progress and the hidden one ain't coming out.

It is quite relevant the way I see it.

Hit-and-run is still better than what the hidden one is doing.  He is just hiding; won't even come out for one hit.  The legacy left behind by Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) still shakes him to his core, lol.

That is because, among many other things, you lack knowledge and do not possess the testicular fortitude to even begin a discussion.  You are quite happy with these petty back-n-forths and I entertain you because I like to see how shallow your understanding of Islam is and how deep your ignorance is.

Imams (ra) don't get personal?  But you claim Fadak was their right?  They would not even claim their own right?  As said before, I refuse to follow such incompetent leaders under the flagship of a ridiculous concept (Imamah).

This is winning!  Ordinary people were able to outsmart and outwork superhuman individuals, who were Divinely-Appointed, Divinely-Aided and Divinely-Guided, at every turn.  With or without worldly powers, the Imams (ra) failed, if I accept your fundamentals of theology.

You can disagree all you want but the fact of the matter is that neither Imam Ali (ra) nor Imam Hassan (ra) reversed the decision of Abu Bakr (ra).  For centuries you all have cursed Abu Bakr (ra).  Time to add your first two Imams (ra) to your list of cursed individuals or exonerate Abu Bakr (ra).

Congratulations for declaring your "infallibles" (ra) to be pushovers, lol.  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) pushed to get their way and your "infallibles" (ra) just laid down for them to roll right over them.

....but first and foremost, pushovers, as per your assessment.

No problem; the decision made at Saqifa, in other words the concept of Shura on choosing a leader, was not legitimate.  Imam Ali (ra), too, was elected by the same process.  In other words, my point stands.  According to you, Imam Ali (ra) partook in an illegitimate process.

You would kiss their feet because it is quite clear you have no issues with anything they said.

"Indeed you defend and prove your theology in alleged debates that are oft-repeated (as feel-good stories) within your gatherings"

Yeh we can see that. No wonder we're seen as a threat for the past 1400 years and are facing extreme propaganda 😊 It must be because of those feel good stories. Well you do admit that we feel good. You just need to admit that you feel terrible. That's because you hold so much grudge and hatred.

"Outside your gatherings, in fact within your own mosques"

Now that is contradiction. Make up your mind and then come back with that one. Take your time, you'll need it.

"when confronted by someone with a bit of knowledge, your wheels come off"

I haven't seen that someone yet. All I've seen is insults and sarcasm because of the insecurity you have and you can't get your facts right. It can be seen that I am getting the better of you. I can feel your scream and rage.

"Salaavot!  Keep telling yourself that because there is no progress and the hidden one ain't coming out"

Boy, you're really afraid of that hidden one, aren't you. He must be giving you nightmares.

"It is quite relevant the way I see it"

That's exactly what your problem is. The way you see it? Not the way it is but the way you see it. You've hit the nail on the head. You've finally got it.

"Hit-and-run is still better than what the hidden one is doing.  He is just hiding; won't even come out for one hit"

Yep, the hidden one is most definitely giving you nightmares. 😊


"The legacy left behind by Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) still shakes him to his core, lol"

Yeh, the long lost legacy which Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi is so desperately trying to bring back with his ruthless and murderous campaign.

"That is because, among many other things, you lack knowledge and do not possess the testicular fortitude to even begin a discussion"

I can see that by your insults and sarcasm.  You're all over the place. I know I'm getting the better of you. It can be clearly seen.

"You are quite happy with these petty back-n-forths and I entertain you because I like to see how shallow your understanding of Islam is and how deep your ignorance is"

I can see you entertaining. Your insults and sarcasm tells how entertaining and how satisfied you are. 😊

"Imams (ra) don't get personal?  But you claim Fadak was their right?  They would not even claim their own right?  As said before, I refuse to follow such incompetent leaders under the flagship of a ridiculous concept (Imamah)"

Then don't follow and get a life. When we come knocking your door then please do tell us.

"This is winning!  Ordinary people were able to outsmart and outwork superhuman individuals, who were Divinely-Appointed, Divinely-Aided and Divinely-Guided, at every turn.  With or without worldly powers, the Imams (ra) failed, if I accept your fundamentals of theology"

Like I said before, according to your ideology and thinking Satan has and still is out smarting God. You and your belief 😊

"You can disagree all you want but the fact of the matter is that neither Imam Ali (ra) nor Imam Hassan (ra) reversed the decision of Abu Bakr (ra)"

Firstly it was between Abu Bakr and Fatima and it lies between them. She will sort it out on judgement day.

Secondly authority and power is not something you use to your own benefit and to your advantage.

"For centuries you all have cursed Abu Bakr (ra)"

That is a statement based on your lack of knowledge and understanding.

"Congratulations for declaring your "infallibles" (ra) to be pushovers, lol.  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) pushed to get their way and your "infallibles" (ra) just laid down for them to roll right over them"

Again according to your understanding where does Satan and God fit in? 😊

"No problem; the decision made at Saqifa, in other words the concept of Shura on choosing a leader, was not legitimate.  Imam Ali (ra), too, was elected by the same process.  In other words, my point stands.  According to you, Imam Ali (ra) partook in an illegitimate process"

Nope. Ali was elected by the people. They came to him in vast numbers. And the allegiance took place in masjid a Nabawi. Where as Saqifa....I've already mentioned this time and time over.

"You would kiss their feet because it is quite clear you have no issues with anything they said"

Nope. I'm surprised you said that. We only kiss the feet of infallibles 😊 You should know that. You carry on here. It suits you. 😊

[muslim720]

Yeh we can see that. No wonder we're seen as a threat for the past 1400 years and are facing extreme propaganda 😊

Take an oath by Allah (swt) that you have never heard any stories in which a Shi'i or one of your Imams (ra) pinned the opposition into submission.  That is all you are fed along with subjective, experiential stories.

It must be because of those feel good stories. Well you do admit that we feel good. You just need to admit that you feel terrible.

Quite a thing to say, coming from the mouth of someone who partakes in annual self-@$$whoopings.

Now that is contradiction. Make up your mind and then come back with that one. Take your time, you'll need it.

It is not a contradiction; I have made Shias eat their words in person, online (like I have tormented you) and in their own mosques.  I am sorry that another one of your tricks did not go over.

I haven't seen that someone yet.

The ostrich says the same.

Boy, you're really afraid of that hidden one, aren't you. He must be giving you nightmares.

Boy?  Khair!  When I was a child, I used to think that boogeyman was hiding under my bed.  Now that I am older, I realize how ridiculous of a belief that was until I started interacting with Shias.  I am sure even a dimwit like yourself has understood my point so no need to type it out.

That's exactly what your problem is. The way you see it? Not the way it is but the way you see it. You've hit the nail on the head. You've finally got it.

I always hit the nail on the head.  Well, lets not talk about nails; Shias have a bone to pick with nails too.  There were nails in the door of Fatima (ra).  Let me know when to pass you the Kleenex box and I also have a baseball bat for when you are ready to beat yourself senseless.

Yep, the hidden one is most definitely giving you nightmares. 😊

Not nearly as many nightmares Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) have given him.  Centuries later, he is still hiding in a cellar, lol. 

Yeh, the long lost legacy which Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi is so desperately trying to bring back with his ruthless and murderous campaign.

Why wouldn't Al-Baghdadi emulate the long lost legacy?  Everybody likes to win, even criminals and despicable murderous barbarians like Al-Baghdadi.  He wants to emulate a winning model.  Even the Iranian government took a page from the lost legacy and elected Ayatollah Khamenei via shura.  No one wants to follow a failed model so they cling on to Abu Bakr's (ra) and Umar's (ra) legacy.  #SoMuchWinning

I can see that by your insults and sarcasm.  You're all over the place. I know I'm getting the better of you. It can be clearly seen.

Is it as clearly seen as your hidden one?

I can see you entertaining. Your insults and sarcasm tells how entertaining and how satisfied you are. 😊

You can bet your house on it.  Nothing beats my 6:45 AM coffee while toying with your poor intellect.

Then don't follow and get a life. When we come knocking your door then please do tell us.

Why would you knock on my door?  To garner support, like how you claim Imam Ali (ra) went door-to-door begging for help? 

Like I said before, according to your ideology and thinking Satan has and still is out smarting God. You and your belief 😊

There is winning in motion again!  You still cannot reconcile your beliefs with reality, lol.  Such a desperate soul you are!

Firstly it was between Abu Bakr and Fatima and it lies between them. She will sort it out on judgement day.

She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all). 

Secondly authority and power is not something you use to your own benefit and to your advantage.

You claim Fadak was their right.  I see no harm in using power to restore your own right.  Unless, of course, it is not your property which is exactly what it was.  And your own Imams (ra) have narrated that Fay belongs to the leader of the time, hence, Abu Bakr (ra).  #Winning

That is a statement based on your lack of knowledge and understanding.

Prove me wrong then!  For once, type "Abu Bakr" and right after it type, "alayh-is salaam" or "radhiAllahu anhu".  Go on!

Nope. Ali was elected by the people. They came to him in vast numbers. And the allegiance took place in masjid a Nabawi. Where as Saqifa....I've already mentioned this time and time over.

The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute.  Imam Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence.  There is another history lesson for you.

Nope. I'm surprised you said that. We only kiss the feet of infallibles 😊 You should know that. You carry on here. It suits you. 😊

...but the hidden one got cold feet.  Won't come out!