Question for Shias

[iceman]

Take an oath by Allah (swt) that you have never heard any stories in which a Shi'i or one of your Imams (ra) pinned the opposition into submission.  That is all you are fed along with subjective, experiential stories.

Quite a thing to say, coming from the mouth of someone who partakes in annual self-@$$whoopings.

It is not a contradiction; I have made Shias eat their words in person, online (like I have tormented you) and in their own mosques.  I am sorry that another one of your tricks did not go over.

The ostrich says the same.

Boy?  Khair!  When I was a child, I used to think that boogeyman was hiding under my bed.  Now that I am older, I realize how ridiculous of a belief that was until I started interacting with Shias.  I am sure even a dimwit like yourself has understood my point so no need to type it out.

I always hit the nail on the head.  Well, lets not talk about nails; Shias have a bone to pick with nails too.  There were nails in the door of Fatima (ra).  Let me know when to pass you the Kleenex box and I also have a baseball bat for when you are ready to beat yourself senseless.

Not nearly as many nightmares Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) have given him.  Centuries later, he is still hiding in a cellar, lol. 

Why wouldn't Al-Baghdadi emulate the long lost legacy?  Everybody likes to win, even criminals and despicable murderous barbarians like Al-Baghdadi.  He wants to emulate a winning model.  Even the Iranian government took a page from the lost legacy and elected Ayatollah Khamenei via shura.  No one wants to follow a failed model so they cling on to Abu Bakr's (ra) and Umar's (ra) legacy.  #SoMuchWinning

Is it as clearly seen as your hidden one?

You can bet your house on it.  Nothing beats my 6:45 AM coffee while toying with your poor intellect.

Why would you knock on my door?  To garner support, like how you claim Imam Ali (ra) went door-to-door begging for help? 

There is winning in motion again!  You still cannot reconcile your beliefs with reality, lol.  Such a desperate soul you are!

She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all). 

You claim Fadak was their right.  I see no harm in using power to restore your own right.  Unless, of course, it is not your property which is exactly what it was.  And your own Imams (ra) have narrated that Fay belongs to the leader of the time, hence, Abu Bakr (ra).  #Winning

Prove me wrong then!  For once, type "Abu Bakr" and right after it type, "alayh-is salaam" or "radhiAllahu anhu".  Go on!

The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute.  Imam Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence.  There is another history lesson for you.

...but the hidden one got cold feet.  Won't come out!

"Take an oath by Allah (swt) that you have never heard any stories in which a Shi'i or one of your Imams (ra) pinned the opposition into submission"

Pinned, submission, winning, loosing etc, that's all you seem to think of. Your world evolves around that. Is this success for you? It probably is. Can you tell me about any Messenger that PINNED the opposition into SUBMISSION? Can you hear yourself, you sound like a kid.

"That is all you are fed along with subjective, experiential stories"

We aren't fed with anything apart from reality and facts. We have principles and standards which we stick to and go by. UNLIKE YOU. You go by incidents and events and then make up as you go along as it suits you.

"Quite a thing to say, coming from the mouth of someone who partakes in annual self-@$$whoopings"

YOU'VE BEEN RAISED WELL. 😊 I can see that 😊

"It is not a contradiction; I have made Shias eat their words in person, online (like I have tormented you) and in their own mosques.  I am sorry that another one of your tricks did not go over"

☺ Keep on dreaming boy, keep on dreaming 😊

"Boy?  Khair!  When I was a child, I used to think that boogeyman was hiding under my bed.  Now that I am older, I realize how ridiculous of a belief that was until I started interacting with Shias.  I am sure even a dimwit like yourself has understood my point so no need to type it out"

No I haven't understood your point because you're right, one has to be a dimwit to understand what you're saying 😊

"I always hit the nail on the head.  Well, lets not talk about nails; Shias have a bone to pick with nails too.  There were nails in the door of Fatima (ra).  Let me know when to pass you the Kleenex box and I also have a baseball bat for when you are ready to beat yourself senseless"

By looking at such comments I would say, a man with a brain of a child. 😊 The way you're going on it seems to me that you must have been bullied at school or by someone in your childhood. I can see the frustration being released.

"Not nearly as many nightmares Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) have given him.  Centuries later, he is still hiding in a cellar, lol"

They haven’t given anyone nightmares. They kicked off at Saqifa and then it went all awol from there. Muslims started to use heavy handed tactics on Muslims, Muslims turned against Muslims and Caliphate just disappeared as quickly as it started. And is no where to be seen or heard of. That's what happens when you take matters into your own hands.

"Why wouldn't Al-Baghdadi emulate the long lost legacy?  Everybody likes to win, even criminals and despicable murderous barbarians like Al-Baghdadi.  He wants to emulate a winning model"

You can't see beyond winning and loosing. That's how narrow sighted you are. Messengers and Imams didn't come and weren't sent to win or loose. Al-Baghdadi wants to bring about the Islamic Caliphate that was brought around at Saqifa.

He wants bring back this so called long lost legacy of yours. Did you give him allegiance? He's declared himself as the Muslim Caliph by Shura. Believe me there were a hell of a lot more people during Al-Baghdadis selection than at Saqifa. 😊

"Why would you knock on my door?  To garner support, like how you claim Imam Ali (ra) went door-to-door begging for help"

WHEN DID I CLAIM? 😊 Can you tell me when I made such a claim? Just as you've been running before you're going to run here as well 😊

"She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all)"

She.....? If this is how I'll, low and naive you speak about the Prophet's s.a.w daughter then I don't care what you say and how you speak about me. I can clearly see the grudge for her in your words.

"You claim Fadak was their right.  I see no harm in using power to restore your own right.  Unless, of course, it is not your property which is exactly what it was.  And your own Imams (ra) have narrated that Fay belongs to the leader of the time, hence, Abu Bakr (ra).  #Winning"

Start a thread and talk about Fadak if you're that desperate. Stop bringing in irrelevant stuff.

"Prove me wrong then!  For once, type "Abu Bakr" and right after it type, "alayh-is salaam" or "radhiAllahu anhu".  Go on!"

Prove you wrong? How many times. For once? Forget about ONCE how many times would you like it.

ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

"The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute.  Imam Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence.  There is another history lesson for you"

PROVE IT "The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute"

PROVE IT "Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence"

PROVE THE TWO ABOVE. JUST WORDS ARE CHEAP

"but the hidden one got cold feet.  Won't come out!"

The hidden one is most definitely giving you NIGHTMARES. Don't kill yourself over it.

[muslim720]

Pinned, submission, winning, loosing etc, that's all you seem to think of. Your world evolves around that. Is this success for you? It probably is. Can you tell me about any Messenger that PINNED the opposition into SUBMISSION? Can you hear yourself, you sound like a kid.

Quite pathetic to see you pretend to take the high road!  Yes, success is all about winning.  Don't blame me; I only learned it from all the times I have sat in Shi'i gatherings. 

I may sound like a kid.  After all, I have to dumb things down to speak with you at your level of comprehension.

We aren't fed with anything apart from reality and facts. We have principles and standards which we stick to and go by.

I laughed so hard that I had my coffee coming out of my nose.

YOU'VE BEEN RAISED WELL. 😊 I can see that 😊

Alhamdulilah!  By the way, bat or chain?

Keep on dreaming boy, keep on dreaming 😊

It does feel like a dream.  How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?

No I haven't understood your point because you're right, one has to be a dimwit to understand what you're saying 😊

NOW I GET IT!  I have to dumb things further down than "dimwit level" for you to grasp.  That is a tall order!  I will have to find one of your zakirs.  Only they can dumb things down to a level lower than "dimwit".

By looking at such comments I would say, a man with a brain of a child. 😊 The way you're going on it seems to me that you must have been bullied at school or by someone in your childhood. I can see the frustration being released.

Consistent with your online discussions, you make a horrible psychologist.

They haven’t given anyone nightmares.

Then why are you still crying, lol?

Muslims started to use heavy handed tactics on Muslims, Muslims turned against Muslims and Caliphate just disappeared as quickly as it started.

Blame Imam Hassan (ra) for it!  He gave the Caliphate to Muawiya who then converted it into kingship.  As always, the root of all your complains can be traced to your own "infallibles" (ra).  Instead of holding us accountable, wait till the hidden one comes out and demand an answer from him.

Messengers and Imams didn't come and weren't sent to win or loose.

All the Prophets (asws) won and their victory was sealed in the Holy Prophet (saw).  Don't know what "Imams" are you talking about because there is no Imamah.

Al-Baghdadi wants to bring about the Islamic Caliphate that was brought around at Saqifa.

Then that puts Al-Baghdadi in the same league as Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) because he (Al-Baghdadi) wants admission to a group the members of which included Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra).  After all, Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) participated in what was "brought around at Saqifa".

As mentioned earlier, all your issues point right back at your own "infallibles" (ra).

He wants bring back this so called long lost legacy of yours.

...and the long lost legacy that your own "infallibles" (ra) participated in and upheld.

Did you give him allegiance? He's declared himself as the Muslim Caliph by Shura.

I don't go by personal declarations.  If I did, I would consider Bayat-al-Ghadeer and the rest of your zakirs to be the bastions of Tawheed.

Believe me there were a hell of a lot more people during Al-Baghdadis selection than at Saqifa. 😊

....and there are even more people that vehemently abhor him.

WHEN DID I CLAIM? 😊 Can you tell me when I made such a claim? Just as you've been running before you're going to run here as well 😊

This is documented in your books and Ijtaba admitted it in another topic.

She.....? If this is how I'll, low and naive you speak about the Prophet's s.a.w daughter then I don't care what you say and how you speak about me. I can clearly see the grudge for her in your words.

Was Fatima (ra) not a woman?  The feminine pronoun is "she", "her" and "hers".  I am surprised you see the absent grudge but failed to see the apparent.  Here is my entire statement:

"She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all)."

Start a thread and talk about Fadak if you're that desperate. Stop bringing in irrelevant stuff.

I knocked hells into clowns like Yam_110 on ShiaChat.  No need to beat a dead horse!

ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
ABU BAKR RADHIALLAHU ANHU
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

Wallaahi, this is the FIRST time when you not only have directly addressed one of my points but utterly refuted me.  I mean it.  May Allah (swt) bless you and regardless of whether you meant it or not, may Allah (swt) forgive all your short-comings and admit you to Paradise for being pleased with the one whom Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saw) are pleased with.

PROVE IT "The bayah given to Abu Bakr (ra) was unanimous and almost absolute"

PROVE IT "Ali (ra) did not enjoy nearly as much support and influence"

PROVE THE TWO ABOVE. JUST WORDS ARE CHEAP

It is very simple.  Was there a single Muslim who opposed the leadership of Abu Bakr (ra)?  No!  Were there any Muslims that opposed Imam Ali (ra)?  Quite a few!  And that is one of your grievances (that many Muslims did not pledge allegiance to Imam Ali (ra) who was the rightful Caliph).

The hidden one is most definitely giving you NIGHTMARES. Don't kill yourself over it.

The way I see it, you are in for a big shock once you realize that the hidden one is actually non-existent.

[iceman]

Quite pathetic to see you pretend to take the high road!  Yes, success is all about winning.  Don't blame me; I only learned it from all the times I have sat in Shi'i gatherings. 

I may sound like a kid.  After all, I have to dumb things down to speak with you at your level of comprehension.

I laughed so hard that I had my coffee coming out of my nose.

Alhamdulilah!  By the way, bat or chain?

It does feel like a dream.  How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?

NOW I GET IT!  I have to dumb things further down than "dimwit level" for you to grasp.  That is a tall order!  I will have to find one of your zakirs.  Only they can dumb things down to a level lower than "dimwit".

Consistent with your online discussions, you make a horrible psychologist.

Then why are you still crying, lol?

Blame Imam Hassan (ra) for it!  He gave the Caliphate to Muawiya who then converted it into kingship.  As always, the root of all your complains can be traced to your own "infallibles" (ra).  Instead of holding us accountable, wait till the hidden one comes out and demand an answer from him.

All the Prophets (asws) won and their victory was sealed in the Holy Prophet (saw).  Don't know what "Imams" are you talking about because there is no Imamah.

Then that puts Al-Baghdadi in the same league as Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) because he (Al-Baghdadi) wants admission to a group the members of which included Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra).  After all, Imam Ali (ra) and Imam Hassan (ra) participated in what was "brought around at Saqifa".

As mentioned earlier, all your issues point right back at your own "infallibles" (ra).

...and the long lost legacy that your own "infallibles" (ra) participated in and upheld.

I don't go by personal declarations.  If I did, I would consider Bayat-al-Ghadeer and the rest of your zakirs to be the bastions of Tawheed.

....and there are even more people that vehemently abhor him.

This is documented in your books and Ijtaba admitted it in another topic.

Was Fatima (ra) not a woman?  The feminine pronoun is "she", "her" and "hers".  I am surprised you see the absent grudge but failed to see the apparent.  Here is my entire statement:

"She has zero authority to sort anything out on Judgment Day.  And her husband and firstborn son already sorted it out in this world by upholding Abu Bakr's decision (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all)."

I knocked hells into clowns like Yam_110 on ShiaChat.  No need to beat a dead horse!

Wallaahi, this is the FIRST time when you not only have directly addressed one of my points but utterly refuted me.  I mean it.  May Allah (swt) bless you and regardless of whether you meant it or not, may Allah (swt) forgive all your short-comings and admit you to Paradise for being pleased with the one whom Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saw) are pleased with.

It is very simple.  Was there a single Muslim who opposed the leadership of Abu Bakr (ra)?  No!  Were there any Muslims that opposed Imam Ali (ra)?  Quite a few!  And that is one of your grievances (that many Muslims did not pledge allegiance to Imam Ali (ra) who was the rightful Caliph).

The way I see it, you are in for a big shock once you realize that the hidden one is actually non-existent.

"Quite pathetic to see you pretend to take the high road!  Yes, success is all about winning.  Don't blame me; I only learned it from all the times I have sat in Shi'i gatherings"

Ok, so success is all about winning. Now tell me when Muhammad s.a.w declared his Messenger status uptil now how much of the world is muslim, has become muslim?

124,000 Messengers and Prophets that have been, how many have been successful and how successful?

How successful was Noah that he was told to build an ark because the nation was going to be wiped out by a natural disaster by Allah as a punishment for that nation because of showing continues disbelief towards Noah and the message?

Why was Yusuf swallowed by a Wale? Would you call all this winning? I don't see any winning. What winning do you see. And you yapp on about Imams and winning.

Get your facts right. Go and learn before you speak. Otherwise you won't know what you're saying. And that's exactly what's happening, you don't know what you're saying.

"I may sound like a kid.  After all, I have to dumb things down to speak with you at your level of comprehension"

You don't need to dumb things down at all. You wouldn't be able to anyway. There is nothing below you and your intellectual level.

"I laughed so hard that I had my coffee coming out of my nose"

You should thank God it came out of your nose..........

"How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?"

Is that why you're spending so much time, effort, energy and money on refuting us for the past 1400 years that you don't have a purpose to your life apart from this.

[muslim720]

Ok, so success is all about winning. Now tell me when Muhammad s.a.w declared his Messenger status uptil now how much of the world is muslim, has become muslim?

Strawman!  The Holy Prophet (saw) is the absolute model of winning.  He was never coerced into giving up his prophethood to any other false prophet and within decades, the bedouin Arabs were ruling from Morocco to far-East.  Compare this to your Imams (ra); one gave bayyah to Abu Bakr (ra), the other gave his Caliphate to Muawiya and the last one is nowhere to be found.

124,000 Messengers and Prophets that have been, how many have been successful and how successful?

All of them!

How successful was Noah that he was told to build an ark because the nation was going to be wiped out by a natural disaster by Allah as a punishment for that nation because of showing continues disbelief towards Noah and the message?

Even Nuh (asws) was more successful in a day than all of your Imams (ra) in their entire existence.  The message that Nuh (asws) brought was completed by the Holy Prophet (saw) which is well on its way to dominate the world.  This while there is not a single reliable hadith in your own books naming your 12 Imams (ra), lol.

Why was Yusuf swallowed by a Wale? Would you call all this winning? I don't see any winning. What winning do you see. And you yapp on about Imams and winning.

Yusuf (asws)?  You mean Yunus (asws)!  Don't worry, you are not taught stories of the Prophets (asws).  Yunus (asws), with the help of Allah (swt) worked his way out of the belly of the whale which defies logic.  He did not suffocate nor did the gastric acids melt his skin.  But your Imams (ra) were somehow unable to thwart off mere fallible beings.  Maybe Allah (swt) abandoned them?

Get your facts right. Go and learn before you speak. Otherwise you won't know what you're saying. And that's exactly what's happening, you don't know what you're saying.

Says the guy who cannot distinguish between Yusuf (asws) and Yunus (asws).

You don't need to dumb things down at all. You wouldn't be able to anyway. There is nothing below you and your intellectual level.

Again, says the guy who cannot distinguish between Yusuf (asws) and Yunus (asws).

You should thank God it came out of your nose..........

If you drink through your mouth, it'll come out of your nose.  Didn't know you drink coffee through the wrong end.

Is that why you're spending so much time, effort, energy and money on refuting us for the past 1400 years that you don't have a purpose to your life apart from this.

Time spent: 15 minutes
Money spent: $0.00
Energy: 5 calories
Effort: none

That is how easy it is to deal with you.

[Mythbuster1]

"How else would you explain a misguided population that can be refuted so easily?"

Is that why you're spending so much time, effort, energy and money on refuting us for the past 1400 years that you don't have a purpose to your life apart from this.

It only took me a couple of posts to refute you never mind 1400 years 😂😂😂
And it was for free I didn’t exchange any money

You can thank me later 😉👍

[iceman]

It only took me a couple of posts to refute you never mind 1400 years 😂😂😂
And it was for free I didn’t exchange any money

You can thank me later 😉👍

You love dreaming. You're a person who likes to blow their own trumpet. Go on, keep patting yourself on the back. Have one from me. 😀

[Mythbuster1]

You love dreaming. You're a person who likes to blow their own trumpet. Go on, keep patting yourself on the back. Have one from me. 😀

Icemans Dream is one day to live under a fairytale rule by divine appointment yes a good dream that never will happen or has ever happened.😉

Pssst........saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening.👍

We know we know........it bloomin hurts.😂

[iceman]

Icemans Dream is one day to live under a fairytale rule by divine appointment yes a good dream that never will happen or has ever happened.😉

Pssst........saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening.👍

We know we know........it bloomin hurts.😂

"saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening"

Oh yes, that INCIDENT did occur. INCIDENT, not an EVENT. It hurts terribly. I've got goosebumps all over. 😅

[Mythbuster1]

"saqifa is reality it happened and is still happening"

Oh yes, that INCIDENT did occur. INCIDENT, not an EVENT. It hurts terribly. I've got goosebumps all over. 😅

You didn’t just get goosebumps, you turned into a liar a dishonest deceitful liar!

This is the outcome of believing in false divine imams.......it turns you into a liar!

It’s the 12’r imamate theory it just makes you want to talk crap and lie.👍

😉👍

[iceman]

You didn’t just get goosebumps, you turned into a liar a dishonest deceitful liar!

This is the outcome of believing in false divine imams.......it turns you into a liar!

It’s the 12’r imamate theory it just makes you want to talk crap and lie.👍

😉👍

Done this many times over. But you want to keep at it because it's hard for you to face defeat.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Imam is from Imamah. He was already a Messenger and a Prophet. So he held two titles already. One above the other. When he was tried and he fulfilled that trial only then he was blessed by Imamah by being made and Imam. That's your third title dear that he was given. He was divine and was given Imamah. So divine +Imamah = divine Imamah. 😊 Now don't faint over it. 😀

[Mythbuster1]

Done this many times over. But you want to keep at it because it's hard for you to face defeat.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Imam is from Imamah. He was already a Messenger and a Prophet. So he held two titles already. One above the other. When he was tried and he fulfilled that trial only then he was blessed by Imamah by being made and Imam. That's your third title dear that he was given. He was divine and was given Imamah. So divine +Imamah = divine Imamah. 😊 Now don't faint over it. 😀

Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid.

😂

LIAR it’s boring you regurgitate the same verse over and over and over, you must be a robot repeating the same mantra again and again.......YAWN.

You’ve gave us your best answer......”it’s up to god” who He turns divine Imamate ....He appoints/promotes like you brought in another verse the same for Surah qasas He appoints even the imams for hellfire.......according to YOU!!😂😂😂

Keep at it you are all over the place with that divine fake Imamate theory even your imams are appointed by Allah swt to lead YOU to hellfire..........big up ibn Saba the very FIRST imam of divine leadership theory being carried on by ibn iceman the new age Shiite who makes it up as you go along modern day intellectual Shiite and a LIAR!!

😂

[iceman]

Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid.

😂

LIAR it’s boring you regurgitate the same verse over and over and over, you must be a robot repeating the same mantra again and again.......YAWN.

You’ve gave us your best answer......”it’s up to god” who He turns divine Imamate ....He appoints/promotes like you brought in another verse the same for Surah qasas He appoints even the imams for hellfire.......according to YOU!!😂😂😂

Keep at it you are all over the place with that divine fake Imamate theory even your imams are appointed by Allah swt to lead YOU to hellfire..........big up ibn Saba the very FIRST imam of divine leadership theory being carried on by ibn iceman the new age Shiite who makes it up as you go along modern day intellectual Shiite and a LIAR!!

😂

"Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid"

What do you mean by JUST? Who are YOU to come up with JUST. JUST WHAT? If IMAM here means LEADER then wasn't he a leader in the first place? Are you not a leader by being a Prophet or Messenger? You either exaggerate or mitigate.

He was divine to begin with because he became a Messenger and a Prophet. Then after being tried he was honoured with Imamah. It is absolutely clear that he was given Imamah after Messenger hood and Prophecy.

Whether it's examples or references, for the intelligent and wise, one or two are more than enough. But when you're discussing with ignorant then you will end up with a confrontational stance based on ifs and buts.

This example is more than enough and is crystal clear that Imamah exists in the Qur'an and Allah made Abraham an Imam after putting him through a test a trial. How many more examples do ignorants want. When you're dealing with ignorance no example is enough and no reference is satisfactory.

[Mythbuster1]

"Where is the DIVINE mr Liar? It just says LEADER an IMAM.......you are ADDING divinity yourself it’s clear and easy to see unless you are dumb and blind or just plain stupid"

What do you mean by JUST? Who are YOU to come up with JUST. JUST WHAT? If IMAM here means LEADER then wasn't he a leader in the first place? Are you not a leader by being a Prophet or Messenger? You either exaggerate or mitigate.

He was divine to begin with because he became a Messenger and a Prophet. Then after being tried he was honoured with Imamah. It is absolutely clear that he was given Imamah after Messenger hood and Prophecy.

Whether it's examples or references, for the intelligent and wise, one or two are more than enough. But when you're discussing with ignorant then you will end up with a confrontational stance based on ifs and buts.

This example is more than enough and is crystal clear that Imamah exists in the Qur'an and Allah made Abraham an Imam after putting him through a test a trial. How many more examples do ignorants want. When you're dealing with ignorance no example is enough and no reference is satisfactory.

It’s ok liar if you choose to ignore the lies you have been spewing that’s ok but don’t call anyone else ignorant if you are one yourself and you have proved it.

The desperation in your explanation is funny at best lol, yes He Ibrahim as was a prophet chosen by the divine yes we agree now comes the part where He Ibrahim as was made an imam yes a leader we as Muslims follow Him as a leader His progeny were leaders a great leader a great imam.
At the least He was a prophet first, the imams weren’t prophets yet according to you they just became divine cos it was upto god as you stated, do you even make sense? you are now calling others ignorant because you can’t explain clearly the divine part of that verse. Even to the point where you tried twisting it so that me and Muslim 720 was talking about normal leaders/imams, you dishonest deceitful liar I am still waiting for your proof on that too.😉

It’s crystal clear even by your nonsensical examples and explanations that there is No divine imams, No divine rule,No proof of such in authentic narrations,No proof in the Quran, to the point you have morphed into a liar a label that is most famous with your sect.

[iceman]

It’s ok liar if you choose to ignore the lies you have been spewing that’s ok but don’t call anyone else ignorant if you are one yourself and you have proved it.

The desperation in your explanation is funny at best lol, yes He Ibrahim as was a prophet chosen by the divine yes we agree now comes the part where He Ibrahim as was made an imam yes a leader we as Muslims follow Him as a leader His progeny were leaders a great leader a great imam.
At the least He was a prophet first, the imams weren’t prophets yet according to you they just became divine cos it was upto god as you stated, do you even make sense? you are now calling others ignorant because you can’t explain clearly the divine part of that verse. Even to the point where you tried twisting it so that me and Muslim 720 was talking about normal leaders/imams, you dishonest deceitful liar I am still waiting for your proof on that too.😉

It’s crystal clear even by your nonsensical examples and explanations that there is No divine imams, No divine rule,No proof of such in authentic narrations,No proof in the Quran, to the point you have morphed into a liar a label that is most famous with your sect.

Still want to be ignorant and stubborn about it and play blind and dumb over it, that's fine. You carry on. 😊

[Mythbuster1]

Still want to be ignorant and stubborn about it and play blind and dumb over it, that's fine. You carry on. 😊

What’s up can’t you explain divine Imamate....LIAR😂😂😂

After all your lies your back to square one.😂😂😂😂😂

The belief in divine Imamate has made you into a LIAR!

You carry on

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[iceman]

What’s up can’t you explain divine Imamate....LIAR😂😂😂

After all your lies your back to square one.😂😂😂😂😂

The belief in divine Imamate has made you into a LIAR!

You carry on

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I've explained it in full. Allah's explained it with an example. The problem is with you.  You just don't want to accept it.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

The verse illustrates two points:

1. Here the position of Imamate is higher in rank than that of Prophet Hood.

2. Here the position of Imamate does not include the unjust.

Now it absolutely obvious that you're having problems digesting this. You want to keep running around in circles and beating around the bush then that's up to you.

[Mythbuster1]

I've explained it in full. Allah's explained it with an example. The problem is with you.  You just don't want to accept it.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

The verse illustrates two points:

1. Here the position of Imamate is higher in rank than that of Prophet Hood.

2. Here the position of Imamate does not include the unjust.

Now it absolutely obvious that you're having problems digesting this. You want to keep running around in circles and beating around the bush then that's up to you.

The verse simply states He will be made an IMAM after prophethood.

Divine Imamate YOU added in yourself it’s YOUR addition and lie!

(You did try your best at lying and started twisting it on another thread that we was talking about normal leadership when you knew full well I wasn’t)

Lying and deceitful!

Your number 1 explanation has nothing apart from you explaining what you THINK/ASSUME it is, you can’t even move forward with this hence you’ve been stuck like a broken record going round and round.

It’s very hard to digest something that’s CLEARLY not there.😜

I told you the dream of Saba you are trying to bring to life by adding assumptions to words that are clear is turning you into a deceitful liar.😉

[Mythbuster1]

I've explained it in full. Allah's explained it with an example. The problem is with you.  You just don't want to accept it.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

“And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

The verse illustrates two points:

1. Here the position of Imamate is higher in rank than that of Prophet Hood.

2. Here the position of Imamate does not include the unjust.

Now it absolutely obvious that you're having problems digesting this. You want to keep running around in circles and beating around the bush then that's up to you.

The position of divine leadership is higher in rank because...........the Quran says he will be imam afterwards.

Imam in Quran = leader
Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader

Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity which is clear enough and easily understandable if you was new to islam and read the verse yes He Ibrahim as was a great leader.

Your version of “divine god chosen” imams leader is NOT in the verse, YOU added that in yourself because it’s your belief and idea that Saba made up and you have nothing from Allah swt hence the regurgitated attempts of repeat answers that have no value on academic levels, infact you haven’t even an academic answer apart from.......dumb blind dumb blind dumb blind you can’t see your eyes are closed, this is your best answer.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍👍

Thankyou to iceman this is how divine Imamate starts........you have to create the idea yourself like Saba then create an idea that imams are god chosen by using fake accounts and using examples of prophets and twisting words of verses and ADD divinity theory it to the verse like iceman keeps doing and if the sunnies don’t understand then call them names finally to outright lie against them, ( I am sure there is a hadith on lying to sunnies from your imams, you definitely are carrying that trophy).😜👍

This is shiism folks.👍

[iceman]

The position of divine leadership is higher in rank because...........the Quran says he will be imam afterwards.

Imam in Quran = leader
Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader

Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity which is clear enough and easily understandable if you was new to islam and read the verse yes He Ibrahim as was a great leader.

Your version of “divine god chosen” imams leader is NOT in the verse, YOU added that in yourself because it’s your belief and idea that Saba made up and you have nothing from Allah swt hence the regurgitated attempts of repeat answers that have no value on academic levels, infact you haven’t even an academic answer apart from.......dumb blind dumb blind dumb blind you can’t see your eyes are closed, this is your best answer.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍👍

Thankyou to iceman this is how divine Imamate starts........you have to create the idea yourself like Saba then create an idea that imams are god chosen by using fake accounts and using examples of prophets and twisting words of verses and ADD divinity theory it to the verse like iceman keeps doing and if the sunnies don’t understand then call them names finally to outright lie against them, ( I am sure there is a hadith on lying to sunnies from your imams, you definitely are carrying that trophy).😜👍

This is shiism folks.👍

I wish people would use their aql sometimes instead of emotions.

"Imam in Quran = leader"

Why does Imam mean leader? Does Messenger/Prophet not mean leader? If you say that Abraham was just made a leader then was he not a leader when he was a Prophet? You haven't addressed this.

"Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader"

No, God chosen Imam. Because Allah said he made Abraham an Imam of the people? First he was a Prophet and then he was MADE an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Before he wasn't an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Why don't you accept something so straightforward. Because it bites what your belief stands on.

"Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity"

Why without any divinity? What makes you say that?

[Mythbuster1]

I wish people would use their aql sometimes instead of emotions.

"Imam in Quran = leader"

Why does Imam mean leader? Does Messenger/Prophet not mean leader? If you say that Abraham was just made a leader then was he not a leader when he was a Prophet? You haven't addressed this.

"Imam in Quran (shiites) = DIVINE/god chosen leader"

No, God chosen Imam. Because Allah said he made Abraham an Imam of the people? First he was a Prophet and then he was MADE an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Before he wasn't an IMAM of the PEOPLE. Why don't you accept something so straightforward. Because it bites what your belief stands on.

"Above verse clearly states ......”imam” without any divinity"

Why without any divinity? What makes you say that?

Leader of what? He Ibrahim as was spreading la ilaha ilallah He was following His leader on revelations being revealed.....Allah swt the greatest imam/leader, don’t look too much into Arabic words your not a native of the language and don’t add things that are not there. Prophets are different to imams your just closing your eyes and arguing blindly as if divine Imamate is higher.

Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity.