TwelverShia.net Forum
Off Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Taha on January 12, 2015, 11:50:58 AM
-
Salaams.
Okay guys, here's the deal. I'm a monoglot English speaker. Studying Islam is getting hard because I've read most of the things that can be read in English (very basic level) so I'm ready to up it by learning Arabic. Now, the problem is, I'm lazy and wont bother if I have to do it myself out of a textbook or audio course, so I was thinking of studying abroad. I've got a wide open schedule indefinitely, no responsibilities, etc. The reasons for studying abroad are because I want a regular classroom type environment, but I also want immersion (eg I'm forced to use Arabic in day-to-day life). Without the immersion factor, I'll just slack off and stop trying. My goals are to learn fus7a for sure and hopefully the Mesopotamian (Iraqi) dialect at some point (not the top priority). Soooo I've been looking at different countries, but can't seem to find the perfect one.
Oman & Jordan = AWESOME but expensive as hell
Morocco = weird dialect that has NOTHING to do with fus7a or the other dialects either
Lebanon = don't want to get killed by run-away Syrian rebels or the IDF
I'm American, have high school and college diplomas + certificates (no degree, yet). Good health except I look like Muawiyah (fat). Only speak English and a little German.
Any suggestions? I'm looking for a place that has good Arabic schools for foreigners, fairly inexpensive, and a dialect that is somewhat related to fus7a and/or easily understood by most other Arabs.
I will slap anyone that suggests I go to the "Islamic State".
Help a brotha out.
Thanks.
-
apply scholarship in Saudi, just say you used to be a shia. You'll get free study plus pocket many and not to mention practising 9/10 of your deen :P
-
apply scholarship in Saudi, just say you used to be a shia. You'll get free study plus pocket many and not to mention practising 9/10 of your deen :P
Wait are you serious? Why don't all ex-Shias study in Saudi?!
Jokes aside, any tips on what schools? And where do I apply for the scholarship?
-
im not joking, a sunni who is so pro-shia finished his undergraduate & post graduate in Saudi government institution. I think it was ummulqura. He hates everything about wahabi/salafi & basically almost anything about saudi ;D He studied there all paid & everything by them. He wrote essay about shia corrupt belief while he was there, just to kiss some arse i guess ;D and once he finished, he "changed". I reckon its a 9/10 trick ;D Clever but devious guy. Just go to any Saudi consulate or rep there and ask.
-
@Hadrami, thanks so much for the info bro. I looked up Umm al Qura and they've got a pretty sweet scholarship; free tuition, free books, free accommodation, free health-care, & free trips home every Summer. This is flipping amazing. I take back that lanat I sent on Saudi two days ago. Just a few questions though. Here is a list of their required documents.
1.) Photo copy of high school diploma & transcript with at least a B overall grade .
2.) Two letters of recommendation from known Islamic Organizations or personalities.
3.) Four recent photos & a copy of your passport.
4.) Copy of birth & health certificates.
5.) Applcant’s age should not exceed 23 years.
6.) Female applicants should have a mahram who is a university student or applicant .
7.) The applicant should obtain permission from his/her government to study in Saudi Arabia.
8.) All documents must be translated to the Arabic or English language and attested by the Saudi Embassy in your country.
I don't have an actual diploma or transcript. I left high school early and got the equivalent diploma by taking a test (high school was a waste of time lol). Will this be sufficient? The marks on my test are above B-average.
Where am I supposed to get 2 letters of recommendation? lol
What is a health certificate? Is it just something my doctor can do?
How do I obtain government permission to study in Saudi? I don't think my government cares where I study ... Should I shoot Obama an email or something?
What does it mean to have the documents attested by the Saudi embassy? Do I have to physically go there in person? (it is on the complete opposite side of the country from me ...)
Sorry for the questions. I'm an idiot. :D
-
Mauritania is pretty good. Their knowledge and status is uncompared and respected. You should search it up.
-
I cant answer those questions, im not saudi official. Only know about this from my cousin who used to work at saudi embassy, only available for single guy like you I think. Just go and ask the saudi rep in your area.
-
Mauritania is pretty good. Their knowledge and status is uncompared and respected. You should search it up.
mauritania will be cheap for sure, but cant compare that with free study plus allowance & free return ticket ;D
-
Mauritania is pretty good. Their knowledge and status is uncompared and respected. You should search it up.
I know it is great for knowledge, but I think they live in tents and stuff. I saw a youtube video where a student of knowledge was talking about pooping in the desert. I suggest Egypt, or the GCC if you can afford it.
-
Isn't that the 'life-as-it-was' package?
-
Isn't that the 'life-as-it-was' package?
Even though ilm is more impotant than the luxury of modern plumbing, there are places where you can have the best of both worlds.
-
Mauritania is pretty good. Their knowledge and status is uncompared and respected. You should search it up.
I know it is great for knowledge, but I think they live in tents and stuff. I saw a youtube video where a student of knowledge was talking about pooping in the desert. I suggest Egypt, or the GCC if you can afford it.
Haha yes that is true if you want to find the big shaykhs. I saw a video of shaykh hamza Yusuf with a mauritanian shaykh there, and yes they were clothed pretty basic. As you can see it will not only develop your arabic but your spirituality since you leave the wordly gains and you get close attention from the shayks there I think. And ... It is safe :p
I would advise egypt too, but don't know what the situation is over there since Sisi (la).
-
Isn't that the 'life-as-it-was' package?
Even though ilm is more impotant than the luxury of modern plumbing, there are places where you can have the best of both worlds.
Indeed. I had a friend who studied in Syria (pre-2010...) while others thought Yemen would have been good as well. In terms of stability I imagine GCC would be the safest option?
-
GCC ? Where is that?
-
GCC refers to the Arabian gulf countries.
-
Salam lol bro you go to Mauritania if you want to be a real man.
If you want to go overseas, the University of Madinah in Saudi Arabia is prob one of the best out there imo. i'm very impressed with the level of Arabic of the students that i've seen go there.
Here's a nice tour of the campus:
(parts 2 and 3 are on youtube)
The problem is that you have to get 2 (probably Salafi) Shaykhs to testify that you are "upon the Sunnah" so good luck with that lol. They might not consider you if the people recommending you have Shia names (esp something like "Sayyid Abdul Husayn Rizvi" or w/e lol)
But yea Madinah University of Ummul Qura are the places to go. Not only are you in the holiest places of Islam, but the Saudi government really goes out of its way to pay for basically everything for you, plus the Arabic of the local people is way better than if you go to Egypt or almost any other country. You just have to really hide the whole Shia thing.
As for their requirements, just get in contact with the Saudi embassy and they'll really help you out. If there's a big Saudi scholar visiting you area, try to talk to him and see if he can get a good word in. If there are a bunch of Saudis at a local university, try to find out if one of them is a prince. Basically, you gotta find some kind of waseelah (if you can't find anyone personally than stick with the embassy)
Some Shias would go to Damascus to learn Arabic but the situation is not really ideal there now cuz of the war
There's also the option of going to Najaf and studying both Islam and Arabic. However be aware that the Iraqi dialect has a lot of Persian influences (like Gulf countries other than Saudi in general) as well as some Turkish influences, as well as a bunch of weird random stuff that make no sense. This is a funny video that pokes fun at some of these oddities:
But tbh if you want to learn Fusha Arabic, you can do so in your home country. Alhamdulillah with the internet you can immerse yourself with Fusha as if you were living in the early days of the Islamic empire (whereas if you went to any Arabic country, you would be surrounded by the local dialect. But tbh the Saudi dialect is probably the closest imo)
-
Lol "hide the shia thing".
Oh and how about deoband schools like in South-Africa or India?
Aren't there Islamic universities in the west? In Netherlands there is, so I geuss in the bigger countries like England there must be too.
Or Azhar university in Egypt?
-
Or u can go to Qum university where they'll teach you Persian and how to shout in protests... Also a great shrine nearby for Shirki needs.
-
Lol "hide the shia thing".
Oh and how about deoband schools like in South-Africa or India?
Aren't there Islamic universities in the west? In Netherlands there is, so I geuss in the bigger countries like England there must be too.
Or Azhar university in Egypt?
That's certainly an option to consider too. People tend forget the quality of Islamic education from Deoband Darul Ulooms, but then again they generally target people more from the subcontinent, really. Even the ones here in the UK.
-
Or u can go to Qum university where they'll teach you Persian and how to shout in protests... Also a great shrine nearby for Shirki needs.
No jokes bro, foreign students are mostly send first to Tehran to learn Farsi for SIX months. Then they go to Qom to study "Islam" in Arabic. But hey, what do you expect when the Rafidah are generally are known for two embarassing things:
1. Laughing stocks when it comes to the recitation of the Qur'an.
2. Laughing stocks when it comes to the Arabic language.
Even the Khomeini couldn't speak Arabic (and I visited Iran, most of their scholars don't speak Arabic! Yet go and meat any knowledgable Pakistani or Indian or any SUNNI scholar for that matter, they all speak Arabic well. And in Karachi where a friend of mine studied you can learn the BEST fu7a in the world, in their madrasas people from same countries are not allowed to share a room, for the reason to prevent them of chatting the whole time in their native language. The rule is that everyone MUST speak clear fus7a. The beautiful recitation and understanding of the Qur'an and the understanding and mastering of the Arabic language has been preserved by the Ahl Al-Sunnah only, obviously the Rafidah have been deprived of both and today through social media everyone can be a witness of that).
-
This thread has got me very interested, I wouldn't mind spending a few years in Saudi getting my Arabic 100%...
-
Brothers my advice (from experience):
It doen't matter how "strange' the accent of any Arab country (even Morocco) is, since in the Arabic schools (and even on TV etc.) EVERYONE speaks FUSHA. I know someone who learnt excellent Arabic in Tunisia. As for Saudi Arabic, then many exaggerate, their accent is not the best (in my opinion), in Mauretania and some places of Yemen even their dialect is much closer to Fusha then the Saudi one. In any case, you can't do anything wrong by going to any Arabic country, but from my experience, the cheapest (with one of the best teachers in the whole Arabic world) is Egypt. It's extremely cheap (including living) and full of foreigners and top teachers (even private ones).
-
This thread has got me very interested, I wouldn't mind spending a few years in Saudi getting my Arabic 100%...
I would have recommended Syria for you but it's crushed by the tyrant. Syrians were very welcoming of converts and people who wished to study Islam and Arabic, a brilliant place we lost was Sham.
-
Like ebn Hussein said, Egypt is cheap. My friend went there with his brother for 2 weeks I think and he almost spend nothing on money. ( he had Euro money so maybe that's why? :p)
-
Mauritania is pretty good. Their knowledge and status is uncompared and respected. You should search it up.
Thanks bro, but I don't want to have to take a dump in the sand and wipe with a leaf.
I cant answer those questions, im not saudi official. Only know about this from my cousin who used to work at saudi embassy, only available for single guy like you I think. Just go and ask the saudi rep in your area.
Thanks for the info! Where can I find a Saudi rep? Right now I'm on the west coast, but I'm moving to the mid-West (middle of the U.S.) in a couple weeks.
If you want to go overseas, the University of Madinah in Saudi Arabia is prob one of the best out there imo. i'm very impressed with the level of Arabic of the students that i've seen go there.
I'll have a look inshaAllah. Do they offer the same type of scholarships as Umm al-Qura? Are there any advantages to Madinah over Makkah or Makkah over Madinah? I imagine Makkah would be more crowded because it's where Masjid al-Haraam is, but Madinah might be as well (but less so?)
The problem is that you have to get 2 (probably Salafi) Shaykhs to testify that you are "upon the Sunnah" so good luck with that lol. They might not consider you if the people recommending you have Shia names (esp something like "Sayyid Abdul Husayn Rizvi" or w/e lol)
Yeah, that's my problem lol. There's a good solid Sunni mosque where I'm moving and they're affiliated with CAIR, so maybe if I get involved there I can get at least one of my letters from them.
But yea Madinah University of Ummul Qura are the places to go. Not only are you in the holiest places of Islam, but the Saudi government really goes out of its way to pay for basically everything for you, plus the Arabic of the local people is way better than if you go to Egypt or almost any other country.
Yeah, that's a big plus. I've heard that the Gulf dialect is very easy to understand for non-Khaleeji Arabic speakers (kinda like Egyptian is always understood).
You just have to really hide the whole Shia thing.
;D It is 9/10 of my religion, eh?
As for their requirements, just get in contact with the Saudi embassy and they'll really help you out.
Okay, that helps. How should I get in contact? If I call, will they speak English? Or e-mail? Or visit in person?
If there are a bunch of Saudis at a local university, try to find out if one of them is a prince.
THAT would be awesome.
Basically, you gotta find some kind of waseelah (if you can't find anyone personally than stick with the embassy)
Would that CAIR-affiliated mosque I mentioned be of any use? I'm not up-to-date on Sunni politics so I don't know if CAIR is good with Saudi or not.
Some Shias would go to Damascus to learn Arabic but the situation is not really ideal there now cuz of the war
Really unfortunate, because Damascus would be amazing. :(
There's also the option of going to Najaf and studying both Islam and Arabic. However be aware that the Iraqi dialect has a lot of Persian influences (like Gulf countries other than Saudi in general) as well as some Turkish influences, as well as a bunch of weird random stuff that make no sense.
As far as I know, the Iraqi government isn't issuing any visas to foreigners except for Ziyarat. And I think all the Iraqi schools are closed to foreigners at the moment because of the war, but I could be wrong. I *do* want to learn the Iraqi dialect eventually (all my friends are Iraqi ... it's strange ... they all make jokes about marrying an Iraqi woman :-\ )
But tbh if you want to learn Fusha Arabic, you can do so in your home country. Alhamdulillah with the internet you can immerse yourself with Fusha as if you were living in the early days of the Islamic empire (whereas if you went to any Arabic country, you would be surrounded by the local dialect. But tbh the Saudi dialect is probably the closest imo)
Yeah, that's true but as I said in the original post, I'm a lazy bastard. If there isn't either a classroom setting with tests, or a need to use it in day-to-day life, I will completely slack off.
Oh and how about deoband schools like in South-Africa or India?
The language of India is Hindi (and a whole bunch of others) and in South Africa they speak Afrikaans and a few others. I would prefer to go to a country where I'm forced to use Arabic in day-to-day life so that I will have a big motivation to try harder.
Aren't there Islamic universities in the west? In Netherlands there is, so I geuss in the bigger countries like England there must be too.
I think there is one in the U.S. but as far as I know, they are very selective (only post graduate studies).
Or u can go to Qum university where they'll teach you Persian and how to shout in protests... Also a great shrine nearby for Shirki needs.
I don't care about learning Farsi lol. I mean, maybe later, but Arabic is my focus for now ;)
Even the Khomeini couldn't speak Arabic
Actually, I think Khomeini spoke fluent Arabic. He was just a nationalistic bastard and refused to speak Arabic with Arabs, he would have a translator. He was too "good" for dirty Arabic, had to use the "refined" Farsi. ::)
It doen't matter how "strange' the accent of any Arab country (even Morocco) is, since in the Arabic schools (and even on TV etc.) EVERYONE speaks FUSHA. I know someone who learnt excellent Arabic in Tunisia. As for Saudi Arabic, then many exaggerate, their accent is not the best (in my opinion), in Mauretania and some places of Yemen even their dialect is much closer to Fusha then the Saudi one. In any case, you can't do anything wrong by going to any Arabic country, but from my experience, the cheapest (with one of the best teachers in the whole Arabic world) is Egypt. It's extremely cheap (including living) and full of foreigners and top teachers (even private ones).
Yeah, I've been thinking about Egypt too. It seems like a great destination. I'll probably look into that more if I can't get the scholarship from Al-Saud.
Like ebn Hussein said, Egypt is cheap. My friend went there with his brother for 2 weeks I think and he almost spend nothing on money. ( he had Euro money so maybe that's why? :p)
Really? I would have thought he would be ripped off of all his money lol.
-
Update: I just e-mailed the Saudi Embassy and asked my questions to them. InshaAllah I can get the answers.
Anyways, I will most likely submit my application in a couple months. I am getting a legal name change right now (personal reasons) and will have to get all my documents (like school records and passport) over to the correct name before I can apply.
Please make du`a for me!
-
I cant answer those questions, im not saudi official. Only know about this from my cousin who used to work at saudi embassy, only available for single guy like you I think. Just go and ask the saudi rep in your area.
Thanks for the info! Where can I find a Saudi rep? Right now I'm on the west coast, but I'm moving to the mid-West (middle of the U.S.) in a couple weeks.
Google it or just look it up on whitepages. If you want to live in foreign country soon, try finding out stuff on your own. Just imagine this, you are most likely will be lost not knowing how to return to your boarding school & dont know how to ask for directions hahaha. You want free study, free accomodation, free ticket and now free personal service too? Come on, practise your survival skill now :P
Like ebn Hussein said, Egypt is cheap. My friend went there with his brother for 2 weeks I think and he almost spend nothing on money. ( he had Euro money so maybe that's why? :p)
Really? I would have thought he would be ripped off of all his money lol.[/font]
Feel sorry for egyptian, lots of people seems to have this stereotype about them being arrogant or sleazy. This arab has stereotype about that arab etc and we blame westerners for having muslim stereotype ;D
-
Yeah, that's true but as I said in the original post, I'm a lazy bastard. If there isn't either a classroom setting with tests, or a need to use it in day-to-day life, I will completely slack off.
Brother if you're lazy here, what makes you think you'll work hard over there? How do you know you won't just isolate yourself on the English internet and just speak English with other ex-pats? Then you end up failing and coming right back to America?
i highly recommend watching this video:
This brother went through the same exact thing as you (and even thought he would get away with just learning Arabic in Saudi before he got a rude awakening)
As encouragement, imagine being able to understand the words of our Creator:
:)
was salam
-
Is it true many of the teachers or the Ulema in the Madina university are not of Saudi Arabic origin? It's mainly people from overseas who settle there to earn a living there by teaching?
You hardly find any born locals in Makkah and Madinah. It's all visitors or working exports. I could be wrong.
-
Oh and they are pretty racist against non-Arabs right?
I think Madina is better to study at.
-
Oh and they are pretty racist against non-Arabs right?
I think Madina is better to study at.
Who're racist against non-Arabs?
-
Saudis.
-
Saudis.
Not sure where you got that from or are drawing from your own personal experience.
You might get the odd snitch here and there, but to suggest the entire or most of the nation dislike non-Arabs is foolhardy.
-
Ofcourse not all of them are racist. I have seen/read it on school/internet but not from personal experience.
-
Ofcourse not all of them are racist. I have seen/read it on school/internet but not from personal experience.
I personally would not read too much into it as there is a lot of misconception that most Arabs in certain parts of the Gold are racially prejudice.
-
As encouragement, imagine being able to understand the words of our Creator:
:)
was salam
Beautiful!
Walaikum Salam wr wb,
-
Google it or just look it up on whitepages. If you want to live in foreign country soon, try finding out stuff on your own. Just imagine this, you are most likely will be lost not knowing how to return to your boarding school & dont know how to ask for directions hahaha. You want free study, free accomodation, free ticket and now free personal service too? Come on, practise your survival skill now :P
Hey now, I never said I wanted those things. You're the one that said it was available :P
As for finding stuff out on my own, well, if I'm in Egypt, there will be a million friendlies that will help me out before I even ask for it and then demand I pay them politely ask for a tip :)
If in Saudi, well, I'm screwed because Saudis are major jerks (even the guy in the video that lotfilms posted says so)
Feel sorry for egyptian, lots of people seems to have this stereotype about them being arrogant or sleazy. This arab has stereotype about that arab etc and we blame westerners for having muslim stereotype ;D
It's not a stereotype of Egyptians, bro. It's legit. They will do anything to make you part with your money. I don't blame them though because most of them are unemployed and need to feed their families.
Brother if you're lazy here, what makes you think you'll work hard over there? How do you know you won't just isolate yourself on the English internet and just speak English with other ex-pats? Then you end up failing and coming right back to America?
I get un-lazy when I'm in an actual school and whatnot. I'm only lazy when it comes to self-study. I do really really well in school, actually. The reason I left high school early was because I was so bored with it.
i highly recommend watching this video:
This brother went through the same exact thing as you (and even thought he would get away with just learning Arabic in Saudi before he got a rude awakening)
LOL totally different situation bro. But I see what you're saying. Maybe I'll skip Saudi and go to Palestine (West Bank) instead ;)
(yes, I listened to the whole lecture)
-
Or go to Mauritania and poop in the dessert, atleast you will still be alive xD
-
Or go to Mauritania and poop in the dessert, atleast you will still be alive xD
I can't find any reliable information on studying in Mauritania online. Most people say you need to already know Arabic, so that defeats the purpose :P
-
A dictionary might help :-P
-
Or go to Mauritania and poop in the dessert, atleast you will still be alive xD
I can't find any reliable information on studying in Mauritania online. Most people say you need to already know Arabic, so that defeats the purpose :P
Here's a good three part video of how it's like there:
Man i wish i could go. That kind of training really turns one into a legit man
-
Google it or just look it up on whitepages. If you want to live in foreign country soon, try finding out stuff on your own. Just imagine this, you are most likely will be lost not knowing how to return to your boarding school & dont know how to ask for directions hahaha. You want free study, free accomodation, free ticket and now free personal service too? Come on, practise your survival skill now :P
Hey now, I never said I wanted those things. You're the one that said it was available :P
As for finding stuff out on my own, well, if I'm in Egypt, there will be a million friendlies that will help me out before I even ask for it and then demand I pay them politely ask for a tip :)
If in Saudi, well, I'm screwed because Saudis are major jerks (even the guy in the video that lotfilms posted says so
Whats better than freebies plus youll be practising 9/10 of your religion anyway :D
-
Whats better than freebies plus youll be practising 9/10 of your religion anyway :D
Nothing :D