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Tawhid thread.

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Soccer

Tawhid thread.
« on: November 12, 2022, 12:00:22 AM »
Salam

There needs to be a thread discussing Tawhid.
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the journey in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.

Soccer

Re: Tawhid thread.
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2022, 12:06:37 AM »
Salam

The Quran tackles polytheism by the following ways:

If Absolute being

If there is an absolute being, there is nothing compared to him, hence the highest word of honor should be for him, and hence only God (semantic issue of not equating with God in worship).
If there would be any gods with the absolute being, it would be his chosen servants he has chosen, but he's far exalted above being compared with anyone.

If those who they worshiped from Jinn were exalted they would be angels

If those they worshipped from Jinn were real and truly exalted as they say, they would be Angels, servants like ourselves, but not gods.
They would not control intercession for us, but intercession would occur by God's permission, command and God being the true intercessor and decider in all that.
All help spiritually and sustenance from unseen would not come from them directly by them deciding but per God's command and will and permission.

Many Angels intercede but can't avail those on earth except by God permission

If there were gods (more then one)


There would be no absolute being guiding them and being the source of their truth, sustenance, and power so they divided beings of different ranks, some over others, and disagreement between them would surely take place because there is no truth.
The judgment would not have absolute reality, and all paths would not have a direction, and so things would be in a state of corruption rather then God's sustenance truth way as it is now
The powers would not be from absolute source and things would be in disarray and the heaven and earth would be in a state of corruption as a result

The Titles and names given by them don't have reality

They can't title and tell the roles of their gods and don't know the subtle of unseen, and so it's conjecture about unseen world and order

Don't have proof for their authority and chosen status

Take away all the impossibility arguments, they would require proof of their chosen status and being chosen by God, but they have none. There exists no clear proof of them being gods and proof is required for truthful truth seekers.

It's upon God to choose not humans

Along with that, is the argument, spirituality and unseen path is sacred, and authorities whether a person saying they represent the gods or unseen entities claiming to represent the truth, they must be chosen from God and not from people choosing who to trust without proof. This is similar to the above point, except with emphasis, that they would be chosen by God if there would be gods or those who channel their will.

It's Jinn not Angels

Then comes the notion they are not Angels, but Jinn who are misguided from the path that most are worshipers and believers of.

It's Devils lead by Iblis


The Arabs were worshiping Iblis and satanic forces from Jinn in reality, and so they aren't Angels, and not even enlightened jinn, but rebellious forces against God.

Divination

An act of Satan to be avoided.

Plans of Shayateen and the plan of their Awliya

They will plan a plan but God's plan will take that account, and there is different end results, but in no way will he give them a way and power over believers and at the time of peril will come to their aid.

Devils from Jinn have friends from humans and always opposing Prophets

The killer of Yahya, the king that killed him, gave Yahya head to a prostitute while the skies cried blood!

Magic is a trial

Can be used from good if we believe in the chosen kings having power from God such as Harut and Marut (peace be upon these two kings) and use our power through God's sustenance and power through his channeling light and power, for good.

Or we can learn skills and use it for bad, in this case, our powers will stem from the cursed tree of Devils.

Magic is an intense trial, if one wants to annul the poisons out there, and cure them, and unknot the locks and knots, and untie what is tied, best to be learned under a guide and king appointed by God, not go to every person claiming to be able to teach us the unseen arts.

Shayateen teach magic, but at a cost for the soul.

Benefits of Jinn and humans from one another

Lastly Quran does not deny there are benefits and pleasures that come about from this but the benefits are not spiritually "good", but rather for pleasure, influence, and powers that are used for Dunya as oppose to getting closer to God.

If these were truly gods, they should be able to take away power from the owner of the throne

Mohammad (s) miracles showed overwhelming unmatched power, and none of the gods of Arabs were able to match his miracles, and he brought an example, when the human is about to die, and it dies, let them bring it back if they are truthful, but they can't even do that, let alone the miracle Mohammad (s) pulled in that respect and more. They had no authority but God has it, and permitted Mohammad (s) to perform the miracle and taunted the opposition to do similar if they were truthful about Mohammad (s) being a sorcerer.

Woof that was long, there is more to be said and Quran elaborates more, and has more arguments, but this is what I remember on top of my head.
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the journey in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.

Soccer

Re: Tawhid thread.
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2022, 12:09:53 AM »
Salam

The order of the universe, if not one God, cannot be guaranteed to be on truth. In fact, it is inevitable if there was no absolute being, that the gods due to free-will, some deviate, and even can be argued without an absolute guider and source of guidance, all will mix falsehood with truth and corruption would take place in all of them. In fact, even this statement is not just, because rather there would be no truth to deviate from and no truth to build upon as far the unseen world goes.

The world then would be created in this case, by limited beings who can be good or evil or mix. Each one or group would call to themselves, but none of them would have proof to the truth.

This would mean for all we know, we can be put in hell forever, by evil beings who think they are good, and have the power over the universe.

There is also no guarantee of good triumphing over evil or justice at the end.

Every set of type of view (which is inevitably misguided without an absolute judge), has no guarantee of truth, as there is no absolute judgment or truth.

This would create a universe where powerful beings might judge humans in a wrong way.

In fact, we have no real who we are in this case, nor the gods, nor the Angels nor whatever you want to call them, it's vision based on subjective views.

The universe all together would be in a state of corruption without God. There is no true vision to who each thing is, no witness who sees things exactly as they are through absolute truth.

There is no source of truth and ultimate light.

And even value of what we are and who we are, would have no basis.

It would be all an illusion and even afterlife would be in the hands of beings who's value and judgment of themselves and others has no basis, but is baseless.
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the journey in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.

Soccer

Re: Tawhid thread.
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2022, 12:12:33 AM »
Salam

This needs to be said. To understand why oneness of God is needed also needs us to understand the name of God. The difference between name and titles of God, is that the name is selected uniquely to represent God. But out of all titles in all languages, there is no one to select, since God existed before all languages came to be. There is also different variations of the word God, in English it's more about revering, while in Arabic, it includes that but is more about who your heart is loving and attached to to the extent of being enslaved to.

But the name of God is a parable, it's not really an actual name. It's a metaphor, for his face, for his image, for his word of light brought to life.

To understand how God creates his name and how it is linked back to him, takes many years of study, but you won't understand it or begin to I should say, unless you give those who are instances of that name and holy reality, explain it. You also need to give holy books a chance.

This is because that is the greatest sign of God, the reminder, the great tiding Quran reminds of and conveys, the station of the Guide and leader of the time.

As this leader is light that is connected to all things and is with all things, the truth of absolute being he points to, needs some illumination to the reality he is and the reality he is linked to.

God is proof that the Imam is truth, but the Imam is also a proof that God is truth, together, they are one proof proving each other at the same time.
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the journey in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.

Soccer

Re: Tawhid thread.
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2023, 06:23:49 PM »
Salam

Soft polytheism is a semantic issue. This is why Quran says "If God were to take a son/daughter, he would have taken is from who he has chosen from who he has created" and said to Mohammad (s) "Say: If God took a son, then it is me who is the foremost of the worshipers", meaning it would be Mohammad (s) himself, but how can Mohammad (s) worship God and be equated with God? It's a paradox. It's about holding a word unique for God out of respect for God's exalted nature above all exalted ones.

Hard polytheism, is a theological issue. This is where Quran says "If there was god with God, the two (heaven and earth) would be corrupted and all that is in it". This you have to see what the universe and creation and morality would be without an absolute being. And said "Are there any of your associates who guide to the truth, God guides to the truth...", meaning, Prophets and Messengers get their guidance from God, without God there is no guidance to others, and if the world was without an absolute being, there is no truth nor guidance to it or by it. This would mean there is no light path to ascend by and no absolute being to go towards, hence no direction is right nor a path wrong, all equally meaningless. And it means for soft polytheism, the exalted ones don't guide to God by their own, but are guided by God and guide and intercede upon the path and help souls by God's permission and that their light and power and guiding sustenance all emanates from the source (God), the guide guides by God and God is the True Guide in the guidance.

And also, soft polytheism, has other arguments. Even if they were not gonna call them gods, exalting beings without proof of their intermediation and intercession from God, is hidden intention of polytheism. Thus exalted ones need proof of their stations and titles and realities from God. They require proofs in form of scripture or legacy of knowledge and in reality, both, though one suffices.
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the journey in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.

 

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