TwelverShia.net Forum
Off Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sheikh on April 10, 2015, 07:19:20 AM
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Due to the multiple requests of Shiite user "Ameen" to have a thread to criticize The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in, while refusing to open one himself, I have decided to open it myself. List every bad thing you can think of. Then we will try to dissect each issue and see if it is right or wrong.
I'll start:
- Having a huge wealth gap between ultra rich and ultra poor
- Twiddling their thumbs during the Grand Mosque Seizure
- Forcing the niqab when it is not unanimously agreed upon to be wajib
Okay Ameen, your turn. I'm sure you will have more than me. I sat here for like 10 minutes trying to come up with some. Unfortunately, I can actually come up with justifications for the 2nd and 3rd items I listed so that's why it took so long. I wasn't sure if I should include them.
Who wants to discuss?
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Monarchy
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There are a lot of good Ulama in Saudi Arab, but the rulers/Monarchy do not represent Ahlus Sunnah.
They broke Khilafa,keeping wealth of Muslim Ummah in their own fist through Nationalism.
_- But destroying Houtis by them can be supported because a good work is being done,whoever doing that!
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Face veil (niqab) is not mandatory there. I was there two weeks ago with my niqab-free wife.
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Instituting Shari'ah without the commensurate pursuit of social justice, thereby creating resentment against said Shari'ah.
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In other words implementing bits n pieces of sharia.
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In other words implementing bits n pieces of sharia.
- letting the prince & princes getting away with many things (obvious example, Prince Fox News who show to the world how law don't apply to him)
- extreme tribalism, but then again Yemen is worse than Saudi
- unfair treatment of non westerner foreigners (who was born there or came there to work)
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-Allied with the west in many cases.
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A bunch of corrupt rich rulers who waste the wealth and money of the nation on useless things.
Also, It's really backwards and stupid that women can't drive there.
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I also hate what they did with Makkah, hotels and clocktower etc... they should have built a city next to Makkah and filled it with hotels and made buses and metros to transport the people into Makkah later. The cave-people in charge of design and planning those cities are complete morons.
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Yes I totally agree with Hani. When I see pictures of the Kaaba on facebook for example, they always include the whole clock tower. I mean common, you are in front of the Kaaba, but you also focus on that tower?!
They also removed some hills around makkah, or made tunnels inside it. I also heard they removed houses of the prophet, sahaba ...
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That clock tower is an ugly building - it should be demolished.
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Due to the multiple requests of Shiite user "Ameen" to have a thread to criticize The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in, while refusing to open one himself, I have decided to open it myself. List every bad thing you can think of. Then we will try to dissect each issue and see if it is right or wrong.
I'll start:
- Having a huge wealth gap between ultra rich and ultra poor
- Twiddling their thumbs during the Grand Mosque Seizure
- Forcing the niqab when it is not unanimously agreed upon to be wajib
Okay Ameen, your turn. I'm sure you will have more than me. I sat here for like 10 minutes trying to come up with some. Unfortunately, I can actually come up with justifications for the 2nd and 3rd items I listed so that's why it took so long. I wasn't sure if I should include them.
Who wants to discuss?
I didn't request anything. And you are not doing anything for me. If you are going to be just and fair, if you are going to balance the argument and decide to have a just and fair discussion, if your are going to be honest and criticise and condemn everyone fairly and equally, also compliment everyone fairly and equally, look at everything with both eyes and with a clear mind then, you are doing yourself a favour.
You want to criticise and condemn Iran then by all means do it justly and fairly. But also compliment and praise Iran for its contributions and commitments or where it needs to be complimented and praised. There are also other Muslim countries and their rulers who need to be criticised and condemned for various reasons. Don't turn a blind eye towards them. And by all means compliment and praise them where they need to be. Have I said something wrong here????
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In a different topic i said this to ameen:
Dude just admit it. If I would say something postive towards shiism or Iran (lol), you would still quote me and object to it somehow. That's because the only reason you are replying, is bcuz you just want to reply on anything that comes in front of you.
Now check what he just said on this topic:
I didn't request anything. And you are not doing anything for me. If you are going to be just and fair, if you are going to balance the argument and decide to have a just and fair discussion, if your are going to be honest and criticise and condemn everyone fairly and equally, also compliment everyone fairly and equally, look at everything with both eyes and with a clear mind then, you are doing yourself a favour.
You want to criticise and condemn Iran then by all means do it justly and fairly. But also compliment and praise Iran for its contributions and commitments or where it needs to be complimented and praised. There are also other Muslim countries and their rulers who need to be criticised and condemned for various reasons. Don't turn a blind eye towards them. And by all means compliment and praise them where they need to be. Have I said something wrong here????
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My dear brother Furkan, please come out of the age of confrontational stance and start to discuss and debate. You are a grown person and slang matches don't suit you.
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Grow up, like Ameen.
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Iranian regime is lower than the maggots on donkey feces.
I'm only saying this for equality as Ameen always instructs us to be equal and fair.
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The reason why posted those 2 comments is because you wanted us to criticize ksa. So we started doing it YET you are still objecting to it ( actually to anything you see)
A good point of iran is:
-They are very good at politics. I mean Iran succeeded 30 years back to portray itself as an Islamic country who resists the West. Now it's 2015 and Iran got exposed.
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Grow up, like Ameen.
Like yourself would be more appropriate, since we think very highly of you.
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Iranian regime is lower than the maggots on donkey feces.
I'm only saying this for equality as Ameen always instructs us to be equal and fair.
And the vast majority of the Muslims agree that Al e Saood are far worse. What do you think???
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The reason why posted those 2 comments is because you wanted us to criticize ksa. So we started doing it YET you are still objecting to it ( actually to anything you see)
A good point of iran is:
-They are very good at politics. I mean Iran succeeded 30 years back to portray itself as an Islamic country who resists the West. Now it's 2015 and Iran got exposed.
Carry on exposing Shiaism and Iran. Good luck!
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Saudi Arabia buys everything from the West. They should invest their money in Research and Development. Even a poor nation like North Korea has contributed more toward R&D and has more innovations.
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That would require a complete overhaul of their work ethics.
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And the vast majority of the Muslims agree that Al e Saood are far worse. What do you think???
Maybe a few years ago, but not anymore.
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I didn't request anything. And you are not doing anything for me.
Yes you did request it, what the heck is wrong with you!? Let me quote what you said:
"Lets start a thread and talk about the errors and mess ups of Saudi Arabia??? Or can't we get our head out of Iran??? You still haven't told me who is backing and supporting Isis."
Source: http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-discussion/the-rumour-mill/msg5708/#msg5708
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I think, the user ameen is an account of 2 guys, who don't know what each of them posted at different topics. Or he got 2 souls in one body...
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Why does he talk like that, precious ?
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Salam.
Sorry But I have heard many Sunnies who don't like scholars of Saoudi saying.
" They have supported Sissi against Morsi in Egypt they have prayed behind Kaaba for Sissi."
But this sunni they didn't want to say who were this scholars.
Someone can say more about that please?
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A good point of iran is:
-They are very good at politics. I mean Iran succeeded 30 years back to portray itself as an Islamic country who resists the West. Now it's 2015 and Iran got exposed.
It is now 2016 and Iran still hasn't been exposed here in the West. ;D You turn on the news and still hear about how Iran is going to destroy the world because they're worse than ISIS and almost have nukes.
Send some of that exposure over here please. I'm getting a bit tired of constantly hearing about what a horrible and organized threat Iran is when they can't even manage a simple election.
Salam.
Sorry But I have heard many Sunnies who don't like scholars of Saoudi saying.
" They have supported Sissi against Morsi in Egypt they have prayed behind Kaaba for Sissi."
But this sunni they didn't want to say who were this scholars.
Someone can say more about that please?
It is not good akhlaq to criticize people directly. There was a great scholar from our history, I can't remember who it was 100% but I want to say it was Ibn Taymiyyah, that spoke on this. The scholars son asked him if we (Muslims) support Yazid and the scholar said no. The son then asked if we curse Yazid and the scholar said something along the lines of "have you ever heard your father curse any man by name?" The idea is that we criticize bad ideas and we condemn the evil doers, but we don't refer to people in specifics. Plus, we don't know all the circumstances. We can strongly dislike and criticize someone that supported Sisi, but maybe that person was misinformed and ignorant on the issue. We don't know what is in the hearts of people.
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Iran's been exposed many times in the west. The popular myth amongst sensationalists amongst the pro-Iran propagandists that Iran is very liked by commonn westerners is ludricous. Most westerners have less than favourable opinions of the regime. The support for Hezbollah is condemned and hated by most with all the scandals and mass crimes committed by the Mullahs has always gained huge attention from the media and consequently the British public.
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It is not good akhlaq to criticize people directly. There was a great scholar from our history, I can't remember who it was 100% but I want to say it was Ibn Taymiyyah, that spoke on this. The scholars son asked him if we (Muslims) support Yazid and the scholar said no. The son then asked if we curse Yazid and the scholar said something along the lines of "have you ever heard your father curse any man by name?" The idea is that we criticize bad ideas and we condemn the evil doers, but we don't refer to people in specifics. Plus, we don't know all the circumstances. We can strongly dislike and criticize someone that supported Sisi, but maybe that person was misinformed and ignorant on the issue. We don't know what is in the hearts of people.
This is Imam Ahmad (ra). https://islamqa.info/en/14007
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^ Thanks bro