You said:
Furthermore, one thing we must know is that Imam Ali (as) did not call to himseld because he did not want the people to apostate. So what Imam Ali (as) actually did PROTECTED Islam.
Salam,
Brother PLEASE try to ponder and reflect on your statement. If `Ali did not preach the message, then what applies to him applies to the Prophet (saw): {O Messenger (Muhammad SAW)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message.}
`Ali's job acc to you folks IS TO GUIDE, he never did. Why would the Prophet (saw) be commanded to proclaim the message and get a guarantee of protection then the leader right after him hides that same message and never proclaims it?
Secondly, your words "`Ali did not call to him in order to PROTECT ISLAM" This means that the belief in divine infallible leaders is not necessary for having faith.
If the so called Imamah was necessary for Islam, then it needed to be preached for Islam to be "protected". However, not announcing it to "protect Islam" says a lot about this irrational belief.
Just ponder on this and don't repeat the arguments of the Shia leaders without thought.
Please ponder on the comparison with Prophet Harun (as).
[Moses] said, "O Aaron, what prevented you, when you saw them going astray, From following me? Then have you disobeyed my order?"
[Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word.' "
Imam Ali (as) - yes, he is a guide. But by calling to himself he would be doing the opposite of guiding, because according to the hadith people might become kafirs due to this. So by you saying "well he should have just guided people" - this may result in people rejected the shahada and Islam in general, thereby doing the complete opposite.
Firstly, Hujjah cannot be established on assumptions, and this contradicts the obligatory principle of Amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar(Enjoining good & forbidding evil). Imagine Prophet(saw) assuming that Abu Jahl will never accept his prophethood so he doesn’t gives him the Message, this would sound irrational and nonsense, because hujjah cannot be established based on assumptions. And regarding forbidding the wrong we read in Shia hadeeth that:
The messenger of Allah(saw) said: Allah bears grudge (dislikeness) for the “WEAK BELIEVER”, who doesn’t have any religion(Deen). It is asked: Who will be believer who doesn’t have any religion? Prophet(saw) said: The one who doesn’t fulfill the obligation of “Forbidding Wrong”. (Furu’al Kafi Vol. 5 Page. 59).
Shias try to counter these points by bringing up the incident of Prophet Harun(as), when Prophet Musa(as) left him with the people, and those people started worshiping a calf and didn’t listen to Harun(as). However this issue is a proof against Shia, because Harun(as) did indeed try to forbid those people from wrong and evil, to the extent that they were about to kill him. This proves that he was not only forbidding them from tongue but also protesting them as much as he could. This is evidenced in the following verses of Quran:
And Hârûn (Aaron) indeed had said to them beforehand: “O my people! You are being tried in this, and verily, your Lord is (Allâh) the Most Beneficent, so follow me and obey my order.” They said: “We will not stop worshipping it (i.e. the calf), until Mûsa (Moses) returns to us.” (Quran 20:90-91)
When Musa returned to his people, angry and sad, he said, .How bad is the thing you have done in my absence! How did you act in haste against the command of your Lord?. He dropped down the Tablets, and grabbed the head of his brother, pulling him towards himself. He (Harun) said, .My mother‘s son, the people took me as weak and were about to kill me. So do not let the enemies laugh at me, and do not count me with the wrong-doers.(Quran 7:150).
Harun(as) didn’t just assume that people will disobey him, so he needs to be silent, on the contrary Harun(as) tried hard to forbid those people from wrong and evil and invited them towards good, to the extent that they were about to kill him, as they overpowered him and found him weak.
Answer taken from
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/5-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-five/
1) In actual fact, one of the conditions of Amr bil Marouf and Nahi an Al Munkar according to our fuqaha is that it should be known that it will be effectual, otherwise the obligation is dropped.
2) It wasn't about assumptions, Imam Ali (as) knew what the consequences would be if he called for his right. Imam Ali (as) didn't want the religion of Allah and the risalah to be lost. His decision was based on circumstances.
3) The comparison between Harun (as) and Imam Ali (as) makes sense because both of them were bertrayed by their Ummah. I must also add, I have re-read Hani's book on Ali and Khilafah, and from what I have read, based on Sunni sources, Imam Ali (as) was clearly not all happy about others preceding him to the khilafa.
1. This is a preposterous claim, because guidance is ONLY from Allah. The duty of believer is to convey/remind the message. We also read in Quran;
(Muhammad), you cannot guide whomever you love, but God guides whomever He wants and knows best those who seek guidance.(Quran 28:56).
Moreover, Haroon(AS) implemented on Amr bil MAroof and Nahi an al Munkar, even though it wasn't effective, to the point that he was going to be killed. And Musa(as) didn't took it lightly thinking that stopping wouldn't have been ineffective. Rather he held the beard of Haroon(AS) and questioned him for DISOBEYING his order. And he only spared him when Haroon(AS) informed him that he did implement on the Amr bil MAroof principle in the best way. Hence, this absurd excuse of yours shows that the example of Haroon(AS) cannot be used by Shias since it is contrary to what Ali(ra) did. This example is against Shias.
2. No one is talking about armed rebellion. Even though as per some reports Ali(ra) said that he would have fought if there was any command from Prophet(saws) about Caliphate. Since you mentioned Hani's book. Let me quote from his book the words of Ali(ra). { Ali said: I would have fought them with my bare hands if I found no weapon.} But what I'm talking about is that he should have atleast verbally reminded people about his alleged appointment. And done his duty of Amr bil Maroof.
3. Read the answer for point 1.
86 Replies
15307 Views
September 13, 2014, 12:53:01 AM