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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Ex-Shias => Topic started by: Bolani Muslim on February 19, 2015, 03:43:20 AM

Title: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Bolani Muslim on February 19, 2015, 03:43:20 AM
  Things I had issues with in Shiaism:

  *Claiming the Qur'an is Incomplete or deliberately put out of order by Uthman(ra)
  * Masoom imamate, claiming anyone except the Prophet(saw) cannot make mistakes
  *Baseless accusations against some of the Sahaba(ra) and making lanat on them
  *Excessive praise and veneration of dead religious leaders, including imams Ali (ra), Hassan(ra) and Hussein(ra).
   *Calling upon other than Allah, which is shirk (like saying 'ya Ali madad')
   *Rejection of saheeh hadith books simply because they are non-shi'a sources, or related by disliked Sahaba(ra)
   *Referring to women as "toys" in their hadiths, slandering both believing women and the poor/unwealthy
     al-Kafi making permissible what is haraam (sodomy)
   *Hadiths saying thath the Mahdi will slaughter sunnis along with the kuffar when he appears (as if they are not Muslims)
   *Matam - Qur'an orders us not to harm ourselves, yet matam is seen as permissible by many shi'a scholars. This made no sense to me

There are others, but after learning shi'a beliefs and rulings in detail, I decided that I didn't want to follow this any longer. It just didn't seem like a religion revealed by the Creator . I found ahlus-Sunnah more in accordance and agreement with Qur'an, and much more believable and logical, especially with their recordings of historical events. I found it more in line with the merciful reputation of the Prophet(Saw).

 http://tinyurl.com/pn74l5y



There is more than one school of thought in shi'aism. I followed ithna ashariyya.

Mirat Al-Uqool Vol 12 p. 525

Majlisi said: ” This tradition (about 17000 verses in Quran) is authentic and it cannot be hidden that this tradition and many more authentic traditons are explicit in (saying) that the Quran is missing and has changed. For me, (I believe) that the traditions have reached tawatur (i.e they are numerous) with regards to the meaning, and ignoring all of it would mean ignoring all traditions accordingly , but I think that the narrations in this meaning are not less than the narrations if Imamah so how do they confirm it using traditions?”

عَلِيُّ بْنُ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ إِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ الَّذِي جَاءَ بِهِ جَبْرَئِيلُ ع إِلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ص سَبْعَةَ عَشَرَ أَلْفَ آيَةٍ
Aboo `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said: “The Qur’aan that Jibra’eel brought to Muhammad (صلى الله عليه واله وسلم) had 17,000 verses”

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 2, Kitaab FaDl Al-Qur’aan, Ch. Rare Traditions, pg. 634, hadeeth # 28

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable)
--> Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 12, pg. 525
2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
--> RawDah Al-Muttaqoon, vol. 10, pg. 21
3. Hoor Al-`Aamilee said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
--> Al-Fuwaa’id Al-Toosiyyah, topic # 96, pg. 483

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?374589-Any-Former-shia-muslims-that-have-converted-to-sunni-Islam&p=5364868&viewfull=1#post5364868



What I did find irritating about your quote is "best not to talk about this in public", "not to be discussed in public", "do not talk about this in public", "we are violating the wajib taqiyyah", ect.

This always made me angry when I was a shi'a. I always got yelled at for asking questions about the deen and told it wasn't my place to do da'wa or to ask about things only scholars should discuss. It felt more like I joined a culture than a religion. I thought it was hypocritical to only share certain parts of the religion and hide the controversial stuff from newbies and "non-members". Reminds me so much of christianity, when I used to get the rundown from my pastor for asking difficult questions.

ironically this is similar to the druze, who are a breakaway sect of shi'a that became their own religion. Druze believe that there are laymen and religious people, and only the religious are allowed to learn and practice the religion fully, while laymen aren't worthy of such devotion to God. Go figure.
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?397108-Even-the-shia-laymen-believe-in-Tahrif-al-Qur-an&p=5756672&viewfull=1#post5756672


I didn't know about it at first either, so it's not fair to say all shi'a laymen think the Qur'an is changed or that shi'a have 'different' qur'ans than 'nasibis'. Considering that most shi'a these days are not even practicing, it's ridiculous to say that they know about something so complicated. This isn't something people teach to their primary school children. It took me a year to find out what shi'a scholars believed about Qur'an or even to read hadiths supporting their views. I was given some copies of tafsir by 'imam shirazi' and that was it.

*Also before starting this fight you should know that they use "sunni" hadith to back up their positions on tahreef, so with this thread you are setting up Ayesha(Ra) for being slandered if any shi'a reads any of this and decides to mock you.


1. Anti-majos (which claims that shi'a are actually zoroastrian in origin) - while offering correct information - presents it in a very immature, unislamic manner, and can hardly be used for a civil discussion on shi'a aqida.

2. There are sunnah hadith that the shi'a use (twist) to support their claim. I'll send you an example in your rep comment so I do not link people to a shirky website.

3. Much of the shi'a hadith cursing the nasibis (sunnah) are still in farsi, urdu and arabic, and have not been translated yet. Yes, it's freely available, but it's hard to bring this information to the English-speaking world and have it be believed second-hand.


*Also, facebook isn't a good representation of the world's population. Most people on facebook are educated; they can read and write, they have time to study their various religions. They may very well be educated on the shirk of their deen and accept it fully, but that doesn't represent the millions who do not have access to such information and can only go by what their shuyookh teach them.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?397108-Even-the-shia-laymen-believe-in-Tahrif-al-Qur-an&p=5756536&viewfull=1#post5756536

Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Husayn on February 19, 2015, 04:33:21 AM
Ask the average 12ver girl about mut'a - she will say it is disgusting.

Then tell her that the "Imams" said it is a great honour for a woman to be a ma'joora (a rented one, i.e. girl who does mut'a with men) and she will say you are disgusting and making things up.

A lot of 12ver girls would find many 12ver hadiths and beliefs quite horrid I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Bolani Muslim on February 19, 2015, 04:49:25 AM
Ask the average 12ver girl about mut'a - she will say it is disgusting.

Then tell her that the "Imams" said it is a great honour for a woman to be a ma'joora (a rented one, i.e. girl who does mut'a with men) and she will say you are disgusting and making things up.

A lot of 12ver girls would find many 12ver hadiths and beliefs quite horrid I'd imagine.
Lol, happened with my mom. I was trying to give her Dawa and she wouldn't accept the Hadees about mutah as true. I was gonna show her evidence, but I didn't wanna make her feel bad. :/
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hani on February 19, 2015, 03:14:00 PM
Imamiyyah are people of desires, even when it comes to their own books they'll only accept what they like.

This ex-Shia member "lSisterl" on ummah forum is an example out of many who get to experience Tashayyu` then leave it.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Muhammad Tazin on February 19, 2015, 04:34:46 PM
There is a issue going o currently .,, I see local Shia_s of my country trying to MIX-UP nasikh-Mansukh with Tahrif-belief.
They are quoting hadith from Kitab of Ahlus Sunnah about  Ayah being abrogated ,then trying to quote it "Tahrif of Ahle Sunnah" !!  :o
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hani on February 19, 2015, 04:45:58 PM
That's out of ignorance and Farid has a piece in the making InshaAllah.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: labelingtheory on February 21, 2015, 10:32:12 AM
  Things I had issues with in Shiaism:

  *Claiming the Qur'an is Incomplete or deliberately put out of order by Uthman(ra)

No credible Shia says the Qur'an is incomplete or put out of order. All muslims agree that the Qur'an is the same today as it was the day the prophet brought it (except for the vowels which aren't necessary to read with because they knew arabic).

  * Masoom imamate, claiming anyone except the Prophet(saw) cannot make mistakes

If a prophet won't sin why would it be hard to believe that an imam couldn't either?

  *Baseless accusations against some of the Sahaba(ra) and making lanat on them

Major scholars have condemned anyone who slanders the companions and wives of the prophet. The accusations aren't baseless as they are in both traditions. There are narrations in both traditions about the falling of the door on the daughter of the prophet (pbut) and also everyone knows who was at fault during the battle of jamul. Ayesha led a war against Ali (ra) and more muslims died in that battle than in all the previous battles before.

  *Excessive praise and veneration of dead religious leaders, including imams Ali (ra), Hassan(ra) and Hussein(ra).

I have seen your posts and others here on this forum and its really unfair that all of you blame all shias for the acts of a few. That would be like me calling all sunnis terrorists because of the actions of al-qaida. A few people may commit shirk, but even shias are against this. No shia ever says to worship the imams. Venerating the ahlulbayt is a command in the Qur'an, and that is something different. All muslims believe that the prophet's (pbuh) family is the best family of all time.

"And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification."
 33:33 Sahih International

Also in sahih muslim and other sources, there is the famous hadith where the probet (pbuh) said that he is leaving two weighty things before he dies and that is the Qur'an and the ahlulbayt. There is nothing wrong with remembering the prophet and his family, in fact great scholars such as ghazali encouraged it.

   *Calling upon other than Allah, which is shirk (like saying 'ya Ali madad')
So when people asked the prophet for it to rain was that also shirk?

Even the second caliph Umar used tawwassful through Abbas (Sahih Bukhari, Kitab al Salat Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123)

"Narrated Anas:
Whenever drought threatened them, ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin ‘Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say,”O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain and You would bless us with rain. And now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah! Bless us with rain.” And so it would rain."


   *Rejection of saheeh hadith books simply because they are non-shi'a sources, or related by disliked Sahaba(ra)

I don't think you know how ilm hadith works. Even if you look at the sunni perspective they do not accept many hadith because a shia narrated it.

   *Referring to women as "toys" in their hadiths, slandering both believing women and the poor/unwealthy
     al-Kafi making permissible what is haraam (sodomy)
   *Hadiths saying thath the Mahdi will slaughter sunnis along with the kuffar when he appears (as if they are not Muslims)

The problem is that you are using weak hadith to prove that shias believe and say crazy things. You do realize that some of these hadith books were compiled and even the authors said themselves that they would rely on later scholars to verify whether or not the hadith are sahih. I usually only argue using sahih muslims/bukhari and other reliable sunni sources, but even then I still see very outlandish statements such as Aisha and Umar correcting the Prophet because he was practicing his religion incorrectly (astaghfurallah). If I did what you did and went to weaker books, I could find even worse things. So please go to reliable sources if you are going to argue, because I can find things that are 100 times worse in sunni sources.

   *Matam - Qur'an orders us not to harm ourselves, yet matam is seen as permissible by many shi'a scholars. This made no sense to me

Matam does not hurt one's body. There are many hadith about companions of the prophet (pbut) or women who would hit themselves out of grief after someone died or when the prophet (pbuh) was injured. We even have the narration that prophet yaqoob cried until he was blind when prophet yusuf was lost. Anything involving harming ones body has been condemned by the major shia scholars. Also hitting oneself in grief coincides with the sunnah of the Qur'an and the prophet, I can give you sources if you want Inshallah

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Also, facebook isn't a good representation of the world's population. Most people on facebook are educated; they can read and write, they have time to study their various religions. They may very well be educated on the shirk of their deen and accept it fully, but that doesn't represent the millions who do not have access to such information and can only go by what their shuyookh teach them.

People on facebook or even most forums such as these are not educated. You have probably spoken to one or two shia scholars who may have not answered your questions correctly. If I have a question on Islam I either go to a learned scholar or to a website that I trust. Most of these forums are filled with people who think they know Islam just because they know how to recite a few verses in the Qur'an. Ask anyone here how long the have studies Islam with proper schooling, I doubt you will find more than a handful who are scholars in the field.



Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hani on February 21, 2015, 03:17:22 PM
@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: labelingtheory on February 21, 2015, 04:03:49 PM
@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hani on February 21, 2015, 04:58:02 PM
I'm sure you'll discover a lot of new things then, enjoy your stay ; )
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: labelingtheory on February 21, 2015, 05:44:15 PM
I'm sure you'll discover a lot of new things then, enjoy your stay ; )

I was looking forward to someone actually responding to my points :(
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Mythbuster1 on February 21, 2015, 06:35:11 PM
@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair


1) and majority shia I KNOW do believe in tehreef even your common shia folk!!!
They say you cannot follow quran without a guide, so basically in your minds its us that are doing tehreef and twisting words because the guide AINT here!!!!
He is HIDING !!!


2) it's easier to believe in flying saucers than a DIVINE IMAM, reason being they both have no ROOTS they have been derived from mans imagination.........unless you can prove the divinity from quran or from the mouth of the first imam himself ra


3) I hope you send lanah everyday on the USA for killing millions of MUSLIMS I hope you send lanah everyday on bush, Obama,Blair etc etc you know what I mean?
What's in the past ALLAH swt will deal with, our problem is here and now, our enemy is one and yet you will still slander our sahaba ra over vague unsubstantiated proofs???
Hypocrisy.....you shia need to look in the mirror and reflect!!!

4) as if there HAVENT been any terrorist shiites in history.......go pull the other one!!!
I suggest you check up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hossein_Fahmideh

For my Sunni brothers that was the first suicide bombing done by MUSLIMS, lo and behold it was a SHIITE blowing himself up killing other MUSLIMS

YOU SHIA started it, The origins of modern Istishhadi attacks lie among the Shia in Iran during the Iran–Iraq War of 1980–1988.

Well done

Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Ameen on February 21, 2015, 08:07:53 PM
I'm sure you'll discover a lot of new things then, enjoy your stay ; )

I was looking forward to someone actually responding to my points :(

And so was I. It seems like someone finally came along and calmed them down.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Ameen on February 21, 2015, 08:28:56 PM
@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair


1) and majority shia I KNOW do believe in tehreef even your common shia folk!!!
They say you cannot follow quran without a guide, so basically in your minds its us that are doing tehreef and twisting words because the guide AINT here!!!!
He is HIDING !!!


2) it's easier to believe in flying saucers than a DIVINE IMAM, reason being they both have no ROOTS they have been derived from mans imagination.........unless you can prove the divinity from quran or from the mouth of the first imam himself ra


3) I hope you send lanah everyday on the USA for killing millions of MUSLIMS I hope you send lanah everyday on bush, Obama,Blair etc etc you know what I mean?
What's in the past ALLAH swt will deal with, our problem is here and now, our enemy is one and yet you will still slander our sahaba ra over vague unsubstantiated proofs???
Hypocrisy.....you shia need to look in the mirror and reflect!!!

4) as if there HAVENT been any terrorist shiites in history.......go pull the other one!!!
I suggest you check up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hossein_Fahmideh

For my Sunni brothers that was the first suicide bombing done by MUSLIMS, lo and behold it was a SHIITE blowing himself up killing other MUSLIMS

YOU SHIA started it, The origins of modern Istishhadi attacks lie among the Shia in Iran during the Iran–Iraq War of 1980–1988.

Well done




You speak through bitterness and hatred rather than through intellect and wisdom.

1, Vast majority of the Shia do not believe in Tehreef e Quran. So please stop pushing this towards something that is not true. Even your own scholars say that one shouldn't follow the Quran or Sunnah without a guide (Ahle Ilam). When it comes to verses and Hadiths one should refer to a Mufasir and Muhadis. So I don't know what you're talking about.

2, Flying saucers and divine Imams both have roots. There is a reason and purpose for everything but it depends on Allah, he gives guidance to the one he wishes and most certainly to the one who genuinely seeks it. But for the stubborn, arrogant and ignorant it is a different story.

3, Don't you think one should send Lanath upon those who have killed and still kill people in the name of Islam??? The Khawarij who still kill people today under the name of Sipah e Sahaba, Lashkar e Janghvi, Alqaidah, Talibaan, I.S.I.S. and so on. No one accuses and abuses the Sahaba. This is a publicity stunt for and by certain people to gain attention and to cause confusion and diversion from the name issues and matters.

4, Terrorism is wrong and there is no space for it in Islam and civil society, it doesn't matter where it comes from. So please don't try to justify it. And all terrorist are criminals regardless of their background and status. Hope this satisfies you and puts your bitterness and hatred to rest.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: labelingtheory on February 21, 2015, 09:07:05 PM
@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair


1) and majority shia I KNOW do believe in tehreef even your common shia folk!!!
They say you cannot follow quran without a guide, so basically in your minds its us that are doing tehreef and twisting words because the guide AINT here!!!!
He is HIDING !!!


2) it's easier to believe in flying saucers than a DIVINE IMAM, reason being they both have no ROOTS they have been derived from mans imagination.........unless you can prove the divinity from quran or from the mouth of the first imam himself ra


3) I hope you send lanah everyday on the USA for killing millions of MUSLIMS I hope you send lanah everyday on bush, Obama,Blair etc etc you know what I mean?
What's in the past ALLAH swt will deal with, our problem is here and now, our enemy is one and yet you will still slander our sahaba ra over vague unsubstantiated proofs???
Hypocrisy.....you shia need to look in the mirror and reflect!!!

4) as if there HAVENT been any terrorist shiites in history.......go pull the other one!!!
I suggest you check up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hossein_Fahmideh

For my Sunni brothers that was the first suicide bombing done by MUSLIMS, lo and behold it was a SHIITE blowing himself up killing other MUSLIMS

YOU SHIA started it, The origins of modern Istishhadi attacks lie among the Shia in Iran during the Iran–Iraq War of 1980–1988.

Well done

1. Glad you know more about Shias than I do. Can you find sources from scholars that shias would deem reliable? Khomeini? Sistani? Khamenei? Tabatabai? Khoi? Tabrizi? Hili? Why would I hide something that I don't believe in?

2. Yes there are many hadith that can prove it. Also the Qur'an talks about a man who moved the throne in the blink of an eye. How is that possible? He was just a normal human was he not?

3. The battle of the camel is not a disputed fact between sunni or shia, and the door falling on fatima because of the second caliph is in both sunni and shia sources.

4. SO this 13 year old was a terrorist from defending his country from Saddam? Wow you really know your history bro, do you even know who started that war?

If you want to talk about terrorists how about the ones fox news and cnn talk about. Do you ever hear of shia suicide bombers in iraq, afghanistan, north africa, or anywhere else in the middle east? Nope. Not all sunnis are terrorists, just like not all shias believe in the garbage that you spew.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hani on February 21, 2015, 09:09:52 PM
Topic locked since it's very random nonacademic discussion.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: |Sister| on March 10, 2015, 01:19:06 PM
The OP, brother Bolani Muslim, kindly linked me to this thread in my PM so I joined. So, Assalamu Alaikum to all my brothers and sisters; and I apologize for the single-minded post, as I only joined to reply to this misunderstanding inshaAllah.

No credible Shia says the Qur'an is incomplete or put out of order. All muslims agree that the Qur'an is the same today as it was the day the prophet brought it (except for the vowels which aren't necessary to read with because they knew arabic).
The only Muslims I knew were Shi'a at a masjid in north america and quite a few online from Paltalk, even before I was Muslim. All of the Shi'a I knew said this, it is not an uncommon claim as you imply. They also blame Umar(Ra) and Uthman (Ra) for it, even though there is no evidence to support it. We obviously reject the 17,000 ayat hadith.

Shi'a I knew personally from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Oman, Canada and the US all agreed that the Qur'an was tampered with and/or incomplete.

So no, not all Muslims agree upon the Qur'an being complete. This is your opinion and it is incorrect based on my experience.


If a prophet won't sin why would it be hard to believe that an imam couldn't either?

Because imams aren't Prophets (As).

And ma'soom is not the same as general sinfulness, you should know that. It means they are free from ANY mistake, large or small, and cannot be incorrect. The (12er) Shi'a elaborate on this by claiming that the Imams are given a special gift from Allah and are permitted to see things from the future, when all Muslims know that even the Prophet (Saw) was not permitted to see the future and that Allah alone only knows the future.

Prophets did make worldly mistakes (Adam alayhi salam eating the fruit and Moses alayhi salam getting angry and hitting) and sought forgiveness. The Prophets (as) could not make mistakes in deen because their deen was directly from Allah, but this didn't prevent them from getting angry or being mistaken about something that Allah had not previously informed them about: they (as) were not psychic and could not tell the future. 

(Mishkat 147 Muhammad told the people of Medina not to hand-pollinate their date palm trees. The yield of dates dropped and they muttered about it. Muhammad said: "If I command you about religion, accept it but if I command you about a secular thing bear in mind that I am a human being.")


Major scholars have condemned anyone who slanders the companions and wives of the prophet.
Slander isn't the same as lanaat. Lanaat is a literal curse, asking Allah to remove his blessings, and all Shi'a scholars I have ever read from have approved making lanaat on "nasibis" and certain sahaba(ra).

In addition to this, both Shi'a scholars and laymen approve of the view that Aisha(Ra) and Hind(Ra) were guilty of lacking hayaa with men, and blame Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra) of being enemies of the Ahlulbayt and changing qur'an and/or causing the death of Fatima (Ra) and her (alleged) unborn child.

They do not consider this "slander" so obviously you would not classify it as such. But this is outright backbiting because the events mentioned are untrue, so in addition to qualifying as slander in Islam, it is a lie against upright Muslims.

I have seen your posts and others here on this forum and its really unfair that all of you blame all shias for the acts of a few.
I do not know you and it makes me uncomfortable that a strange man follows my posts on an unrelated forum. But if you truly did follow my posts on shi'aism, you would know that I do not blame any shi'a on the acts of a few. I always defend the laymen and those who do not subscribe to these views. I blame the shi'a doctrine itself as kufr and shirk. I do not call individual people kaafirs or mushrikeen.

 
Venerating the ahlulbayt is a command in the Qur'an, and that is something different.
Respecting them is, not venerating them. Please check a dictionary for the difference.

Also in sahih muslim and other sources, there is the famous hadith where the probet (pbuh) said that he is leaving two weighty things before he dies and that is the Qur'an and the ahlulbayt. There is nothing wrong with remembering the prophet and his family, in fact great scholars such as ghazali encouraged it.
I never said there was a problem with it and no muslim ever would. I said there was a problem with over-reverence and worship of imams and saints.

So when people asked the prophet for it to rain was that also shirk?
Tawassul is not the same as screaming YA ALI MADAD instead of Allahumma/Ya Allah. This is a preference towards Ali (ra) instead of Allah Himself (swt) and it is calling to a dead person to aid you instead of Allah Himself (Swt), who is the Only One able to help a Muslim and the Only One worthy of begging from.

I don't think you know how ilm hadith works. Even if you look at the sunni perspective they do not accept many hadith because a shia narrated it.
I'm well aware of how hadith are graded. Shi'a hadith are rejected because of the weakness of their narrators and lack of links back to the orginal narrators, not because they are "Shi'a". However, Shi'a do reject authentic narrations that disagree with their beliefs even if the chain is sound and the narrators are known for trustworthiness. Except of course when they are using them to try and refute "sunnis".

The problem is that you are using weak hadith to prove that shias believe and say crazy things. 
Yes, I notice this whenever a Shi'a tries to debate me. Anytime I show them a hadith they dislike, they claim it is "weak" and can't be used; even if the source itself is graded as hasan or sahih. You cannot declare a hadith mursal just because you dislike what it says.


Matam does not hurt one's body. There are many hadith about companions of the prophet (pbut) or women who would hit themselves out of grief after someone died or when the prophet (pbuh) was injured.

Slapping yourself in the face out of grief is not the same as lashing yourself with a cat-o-nine-tails of razors or slicing open your infant's head with a knife. It is disgusting you would even try and equate the two. That is like saying hitting someone with a miswak is the same as taking a sledghammer to their face. And the Prophet (Saw) forbade slapping faces and wailing over the dead, and reminded women with hellfire for doing so. I can show you these sources as well InshaAllah.


People on facebook or even most forums such as these are not educated.
They are more educated than the people living in places where good schooling and internet doesn't exist, which includes many places in the islamic world, unfortunately. I have discussed with students of shi'a knowledge who offered much more evidence against shi'aism than any layman could provide. It was actually the educated students and scholars I conversed with that taught me much of what I dislike about the shi'a religion. 

You have probably spoken to one or two shia scholars who may have not answered your questions correctly. If I have a question on Islam I either go to a learned scholar or to a website that I trust. Most of these forums are filled with people who think they know Islam just because they know how to recite a few verses in the Qur'an. Ask anyone here how long the have studies Islam with proper schooling, I doubt you will find more than a handful who are scholars in the field.
My questions were answered correctly and in accordance with shi'a beliefs, which is why I disbelieved in it. How arrogant of you to assume I am uneducated on shi'aism just because I disagree with you. I have spoken to much more than "one or two" scholars and I can assure you I did my research on your deen before I decided to leave it.

This statement is just as ridiculous and arrogant as the christians who tell me I do not know/have not read the Bible, I never met a real pastor and I never was a real christian most of my life just because I decided to leave it.

-----------------------

If anyone has any questions regarding anything quoted in the OP, feel free to ask and I can try to clarify. I swear by Allah SWT that my purpose for joining is not to troll or belittle anyone, just to reply to this post which is full of misunderstandings about myself. I don't use ummah anymore so post here inshaAllah.

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullah.


Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: MuslimK on March 10, 2015, 03:51:50 PM
Walaikum Salam wr wb,

Praise be to Allah! He guides whom he wills.

Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 10, 2015, 03:54:32 PM
Congratulations sister for coming over to side of truth, and away from the snake-pit that is Rafidhism.

What prompted you to see the light?
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Khaled on March 10, 2015, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: |Sister|
They are more educated than the people living in places where good schooling and internet doesn't exist, which includes many places in the islamic world, unfortunately. I have discussed with students of shi'a knowledge who offered much more evidence against shi'aism than any layman could provide. It was actually the educated students and scholars I conversed with that taught me much of what I dislike about the shi'a religion.

This is really the crux of the matter as far as I am concerned.  The average Shi'a has no clue what their religion teaches and what their Ulama say, and rather their only experience is with other laymen Shi'a who (apparently) don't believe in the kufr and the shirk that their scholars preach.  So they keep saying "most Shi'as don't believe in Tahrif" and "you should ask as a scholar" when really they are talking about what's going on in their mosque and the scholar they are referring to is the guy that gives the khutbah.  How can any Shi'ee in his right mind actually question the FACT that the majority of their scholars outright said the Qur'an has been corrupted?
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Bolani Muslim on March 10, 2015, 10:58:20 PM
^Lol, my mom told me a few days ago that 'asking questions' can lead me to hell.  ;D
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 11, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
May Allah save the entire Ummah from the Shirk that is Shiaism.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: |Sister| on March 11, 2015, 08:45:54 PM
Congratulations sister for coming over to side of truth, and away from the snake-pit that is Rafidhism.

What prompted you to see the light?

I cannot pinpoint it. I think finally being around other muslims (on paltalk and forums) made me curious. Then I started reading ahlulsunnah books and contacting ahlulsunnah scholars to clear my misconceptions.

If I had to pick one thing, it would be reading a non-shi'a islamic history book. The fact that it had references I could actually look up really won me over. And the "normal" version of islamic history was so different than the shi'a version that it made me more curious and buy more books.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Furkan on March 11, 2015, 08:49:50 PM
Allahu akbar.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Taha on March 11, 2015, 09:22:45 PM
I was going to like your post, but you sent Tardih on Hind. She's unforgivable.

Otherwise, very nice post and response. But stay away from Ummah forum. They're a bunch of Daesh wannabes. When I first became a Muslim, a bloke on there named Uncle Umar was my mentor. He ended up "martyred" in Syria while fighting with Daesh.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Furkan on March 11, 2015, 09:28:35 PM
Why not if rasululah (saw) accepted her bayah, thus her being a muslim. This means she asks for repentance (maybe for her whole life every night and morning after prayer). She asks for mercy but you say it's void, whilst you yourself (and many others) want the Mercy of Allah.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hani on March 11, 2015, 10:27:56 PM
Forgive and forget bro Taha, we haven't heard Hind commit any sin since she embraced Islam and that erases what is before it.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Taha on March 11, 2015, 10:38:41 PM
Forgive and forget bro Taha, we haven't heard Hind commit any sin since she embraced Islam and that erases what is before it.

She went to war with Muhammad and ate the heart of Hamza. Then she became a Muslima when she was on the loosing side of a battle. You don't get sincere converts from defeating them in battle, those are conversions of convenience.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hani on March 11, 2015, 10:52:52 PM
Very possible, yet you can't be sure for certain, especially since she never did anything wrong after embracing Islam. Try to always be on the safe side of things and this is a religion of peace and fraternity try not to judge on intentions unless something is very obviously wrong.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Furkan on March 11, 2015, 10:59:00 PM
Brother, they are also human, over a time they realize that Islam is haq. Islam changed the meccan jahil mushrikeen into people with tawheed, honour, respect,... Other nations started respecting the arabs and stopped seeing them as lowly people. They even started fearing the arabs.

Maybe this might sound funny, but watching Umar series helped me to understand the case of Hind and Abu Sufyan and thus all kinds of doubts where removed from me. Because it portrays very good how people react, think, change, ....



Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Khaled on March 11, 2015, 11:38:32 PM
Very possible, yet you can't be sure for certain, especially since she never did anything wrong after embracing Islam. Try to always be on the safe side of things and this is a religion of peace and fraternity try not to judge on intentions unless something is very obviously wrong.

Its very strange akhi, its "possible" that Qur'an has been corrupted, but it is not possible that Hind repented...
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Khaled on March 11, 2015, 11:39:13 PM
She went to war with Muhammad...

Who is that?
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Husayn on March 12, 2015, 12:20:09 AM
Forgive and forget bro Taha, we haven't heard Hind commit any sin since she embraced Islam and that erases what is before it.

She went to war with Muhammad and ate the heart of Hamza. Then she became a Muslima when she was on the loosing side of a battle. You don't get sincere converts from defeating them in battle, those are conversions of convenience.

Why do people judge those who converted after the fath?

Can you honestly say that if you were living in Arabia at the time - that you would have converted and not opposed Rasul Allah (saw)?
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Taha on March 12, 2015, 02:50:57 AM
She went to war with Muhammad...
Who is that?

Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, went to war against Abu'l Qassim Muhammad b. `Abd Allah, the Messenger of Allah.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Taha on March 12, 2015, 02:52:58 AM
Forgive and forget bro Taha, we haven't heard Hind commit any sin since she embraced Islam and that erases what is before it.

She went to war with Muhammad and ate the heart of Hamza. Then she became a Muslima when she was on the loosing side of a battle. You don't get sincere converts from defeating them in battle, those are conversions of convenience.

Why do people judge those who converted after the fath?

Can you honestly say that if you were living in Arabia at the time - that you would have converted and not opposed Rasul Allah (saw)?

No I can't. I would probably be one of those filthy hypocrites that convert for the sake of convenience. And I would probably be venerated by some people ....
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Taha on March 12, 2015, 02:53:56 AM
Very possible, yet you can't be sure for certain, especially since she never did anything wrong after embracing Islam. Try to always be on the safe side of things and this is a religion of peace and fraternity try not to judge on intentions unless something is very obviously wrong.

Its very strange akhi, its "possible" that Qur'an has been corrupted, but it is not possible that Hind repented...

I never said that it's impossible. Maybe you could show the evidence?
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 12, 2015, 03:11:55 AM
She went to war with Muhammad...
Who is that?

Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, went to war against Abu'l Qassim Muhammad b. `Abd Allah, the Messenger of Allah.

It doesn't matter.

So, did Khalid ibn Walid, 'Amr ibn al-'As, and Wahshi yet Allah honoured and elevared them later in life.

Abu Sufyan's accepting Islam was a sincere one. He went to Syria and other parts to take part in jihad. Why would he want to gamble with his life if he wasn't sincere? Thus, we can be sure his wife's acceptance of the faith was likewise genuine.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: sameer on March 12, 2015, 12:08:37 PM
Forgive and forget bro Taha, we haven't heard Hind commit any sin since she embraced Islam and that erases what is before it.

She went to war with Muhammad and ate the heart of Hamza. Then she became a Muslima when she was on the loosing side of a battle. You don't get sincere converts from defeating them in battle, those are conversions of convenience.

we should not judge someone's heart to see if he/she accept islam whole heartedly or not because the principle in Islam is,  “We consider only the apparent in regards to Imaan and kufr, we do not consider that which is concealed.”

Usama bin Zaid was sent in an expedition, he spoke about one man in the battlefield, he said:“… I saw one of them, he said “laa ilaaha illallah”. I stabbed him, and after that I felt bad and so told Muhammad (saw) what I did. The Prophet (saw) asked: “did he say laa ilaha illallah, and you killed him?” I said: “He said it, but only out of fear for my sword.” He (saw) asked “did you check his heart to see if he believed it?” he kept on repeating that question until I wished that I was not Muslim yet until that day.” [Muslim V-2 P-107]
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hadrami on March 12, 2015, 01:36:55 PM
She went to war with Muhammad...
Who is that?

Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, went to war against Abu'l Qassim Muhammad b. `Abd Allah, the Messenger of Allah.

Don't you know that Aqil bin Abi Talib RA was on her side and also went to war against Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam? Did he also become Muslim out of convenience? Are you on your nasibi mode when you wrote that comment?
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: ahlebaitlover on March 12, 2015, 02:22:50 PM
Ahlamdullilah I too saved a sunni sister who used to go to university from falling in the muta trap. These filthy shia target the innocent sunni girls. May Allah protect our youth!
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: |Sister| on March 12, 2015, 04:48:43 PM
I was going to like your post, but you sent Tardih on Hind. She's unforgivable.

Otherwise, very nice post and response. But stay away from Ummah forum. They're a bunch of Daesh wannabes. When I first became a Muslim, a bloke on there named Uncle Umar was my mentor. He ended up "martyred" in Syria while fighting with Daesh.
JzakAllah khayr, but She(ra) was a Muslim and once a person accepts Islaam it is required for the rest of us to accept it without question. There are multiple hadiths on this and the Prophet (Saw) scolded people for not doing it and told them that they cannot see into the hearts of people. I cannot see her heart (ra) and I believe as required upon me that her conversion was sincere. And there are many sahaba(ra) who fought against the Prophet Muhammad(saw) and eventually changed their mind and converted, so she is not unique at all. And inshaAllah she is in jannah along with the slave (Ra) who helped her and then also later converted. And Allah is the Most Forgiving. And Muslims are supposed to ask forgiveness for all the ummah anyway during our duas. This includes criminals.

And Uncle Umar, may Allah forgive him any mistakes he made, was a kind brother who helped many of us on ummah, I only have good memories of his posts. I don't know what was in his heart so I won't judge him. And many other brothers and sisters also helped me as well. Actually I don't know when you left, but I would say there are just as many sufis as there are strict salafis now in 2014/2015. The only reason I left ummah is because the moderators keep allowing racism against whites while many users are white europeans or reverts who keep getting ignored when we complain. I don't think this is Islamic at all.

I hope the thread doesn't get locked again for derailment.

Ahlamdullilah I too saved a sunni sister who used to go to university from falling in the muta trap. These filthy shia target the innocent sunni girls. May Allah protect our youth!
Yes they do and the shi'a I knew were always trying to convince me that muta and (excuse my bluntness) "back door" relations were halal and fine, and they got angry when I questioned it.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Furkan on March 12, 2015, 04:51:13 PM
Sister plz edit the last part.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 12, 2015, 05:01:17 PM
Just to add to what brother Hadrami is saying. We should remember that Hind (RA) was pleasantly surprised when Makkah was conquered that the Sahabas (RA) didn't go on a killing spree to extract revenge for the humiliation they faced at the hands of Quraish a decade earlier. She was overly surprised how the Prophet (SAW) forgave everyone. This act of mercy was more than sufficient for them to embrace the truth.

Furthermore, the Qur'an testifies and by researcing the Seerah the Quraish knew in the core of their hearts that the Prophet (SAW) was genuine in his mission and always spoke the truth. They chose not to face the facts. Abu Sufyan (RA) was no exception to this. Let's not forget his encounter with the King of Abyssinia, Najashi who quizzed him about the Prophet (SAW) and foretold a prophecy himself that he will be successful in the very end. Aby Sufyan (RA) knew more than ever at this point as the one final leaders of the Quraish that the Prophet (SAW) was indeed the last Prophet beyond doubt, and Allah (SWT) will grant him victory. This is why before the Muslims even step foot in Makkah he surrendered, but in the most beautiful and ideal manner by taking up the Shahadah. This is qualities of a true leader and winner because he went from being a companion of the Shaitan who's accredited of being cursed of the highest degree to becoming a companion of the Prophet (SAW) who is accredited as the best of creation of mankind. :)

Abu Sufyan (RA) and his wife are champions in my book. :D
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 12, 2015, 05:02:15 PM
Sister plz edit the last part.

Why? She's making a truthful point. It has to come out.

Sister, I say leave it.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Taha on March 12, 2015, 05:42:16 PM
Yeah, leave it. You would be shocked, honestly. I have heard stories from all of my female Shia friends about being harassed for muta ... All the time. It's sickening and people need to know.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Taha on March 12, 2015, 05:45:18 PM
Thank you to Hani and |Sister| for the explanations :)

I left Ummah forum in/around 2011ish when I became a Shia. There were no Sufis back then. A big part of my conversion to Shiism is that everyone on Ummah forum hated them and made up lies about them. I honestly may have never been a Shia if it wasn't for the Ummah Salafis lying about Shiism. When you're lied to, you feel betrayed and think that everything they ever told you was a lie. Bad tactic.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 12, 2015, 07:13:41 PM
Thank you to Hani and |Sister| for the explanations :)

I left Ummah forum in/around 2011ish when I became a Shia. There were no Sufis back then. A big part of my conversion to Shiism is that everyone on Ummah forum hated them and made up lies about them. I honestly may have never been a Shia if it wasn't for the Ummah Salafis lying about Shiism. When you're lied to, you feel betrayed and think that everything they ever told you was a lie. Bad tactic.

You should be changing once you discover and embrace the truth. Just like Abu Sufyan (RA) did. ;)
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hadrami on March 12, 2015, 09:54:33 PM
She went to war with Muhammad...
Who is that?

Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, went to war against Abu'l Qassim Muhammad b. `Abd Allah, the Messenger of Allah.

Aqil bin Abi Talib RA was on Hind RA side and also went to war against Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam

Taha, whats your excuse to that fact?
Do you not forget & forgive Aqil bin Abi Talib RA too for the evil things he did? Cant wait for the excuse :P
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: |Sister| on March 13, 2015, 06:48:31 AM
Thank you to Hani and |Sister| for the explanations :)

I left Ummah forum in/around 2011ish when I became a Shia. There were no Sufis back then. A big part of my conversion to Shiism is that everyone on Ummah forum hated them and made up lies about them. I honestly may have never been a Shia if it wasn't for the Ummah Salafis lying about Shiism. When you're lied to, you feel betrayed and think that everything they ever told you was a lie. Bad tactic.
Forgive me for sounding rude Akhi, but I will say here what I said there. Joining or leaving a faith for any reason other than Allah alone is misguidance. We worship Allah, not our desires.

Muslims have treated me badly, especially by people who worship strictness and rules instead of practicing the mandatory mercy and forgiveness of Islam. Insults, racism, rejection for marriage because my blood was 'impure' or 'all americans are whores', ect. On ummah there are trolls who don't fear Allah, but I don't let that affect my imaan because I know that they are going against the words of Allah.

But even if the entire world treated me like garbage, I know that the deen is only for Allah. Even as a christian I knew that religion is worthless unless it's done for the Creator alone with no other motivations behind it. I didn't leave christianity because christians were mean to me, I left it because the trinity made no sense. A person cannot be on the correct path unless they choose that path because of it's truthfulness, even if that truthfulness is bitter and we dislike it or the people who practice it.

If I had chosen my religion by how nice people were being to me, I would have chosen to become a pagan. Almost none of them have ever been negative towards me because it's part of their belief to have a positive attitude in order to receive positiveness themselves. But I chose my religion because of it's truthfulness even though "Muslims" have lied to me, insulted me and ignored me when I needed help. Because I know what Allah says is the truth, and I know that mainstream Islaam is the truth even if a nutcase who claims to be a muslim does everything against Islaam he can possibly do.

And Allah guides whoever He wants and misguides whoever He wants. No person can remove the imaan or ilm from another person's heart.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Hadrami on March 13, 2015, 09:26:11 AM
mashaAllah what a reply. By the way, when you say you were shia. Which country are you from? Did you become shia because the majority of muslim you met were shia in your area?
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: |Sister| on March 13, 2015, 10:43:29 AM
mashaAllah what a reply. By the way, when you say you were shia. Which country are you from? Did you become shia because the majority of muslim you met were shia in your area?
I'm american. At first I didn't know I was shi'a. I only liked what I read of Qur'an and believed in it. My shi'a friends were giving me books and I read them to learn more about Islaam.. I had no idea there were sects because Allah condemns sects in the qur'an.

I was very naive and thought that islaam is practiced the way that Allah ordered it to be practiced, so it didn't occur to me that there are denominations in islaam like there are in other religions. So I studied "islaam" (ithna ashariyya sources) because I wanted to learn as much about islaam as possible. I only knew shi'as at the time and thought that islaam was just one big religion. I was shocked to be called a shi'a pig by one girl because I had no idea why she was upset at me.

After four years of learning and sending in lengthy questions to scholars, I started doubting many of the fatawa and hadiths I read and nearly became a quranist (astaghfirullah) because I just couldn't consolidate some of these vulgar and/or contradictory quotes with the beauty in the Qur'an. On top of that, they rarely if ever give references to how they came to a certain conclusion. We're just supposed to take their word for it and I was discouraged from gaining ilm by one student of a scholar because of my gender (he answered instead of his mentor apparently because he was too busy), he told me there was no need for female 'scholars' (I was just seeking info) and learning the basics is enough to be a good mother, that I shouldn't waste my time learning about matters that do not concern me.

Not that this stopped me, of course, but I just felt it was the same thing my pastors told me when I was a christian questioning the trinity. I was told that I don't need to understand the trinity and that it won't stop me from being a good christian and I should just stop wasting his time asking about it. I asked him about seminary school and he said there is no point in me learning my religion that deeply if I wasn't planning on becoming a pastor. As if laymen have no right to or use for ilm.

On paltalk I joined muslim chatrooms and started meeting other Muslims from other schools of thought who gave me resources that contradicted and refuted things that I had learned. I was given the emails of scholars from all four madhabs and books from every sect and philosophy from ghazali to ibn taymiyya. As a user (brother husayn) said on a different thread, I am a self-educated layman. I don't claim to know a lot but alhamdulillah this was enough to convince me that shi'aism was a separate religion from what I read in Qur'an. I cannot explain the relief I had after read the real seerah with references to sahih hadith I had never seen before. I downloaded every english sahih and hasan hadith book I could find and sat through and read them all (although I didn't understand the context of most of them).

My shi'a friends steered me away from it, and 'sunnis' insulted me a lot and didn't help me very much (I kept getting called a troll on forums), but I didn't listen because I wanted to find out the truth. I have no shi'a friends left because they all stopped talking to me after I said I don't believe in that anymore. We haven't spoken since '07/'08.

But Allah guides us the way He wants.
Title: Re: Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!
Post by: Furkan on March 13, 2015, 12:11:44 PM
Ma sha Allah, you are strong, a true believer.

Our Mawla is Allah and that's enough for us. Difficulties in this world will be followed up by easiness in the next world.
Muslims in general are actually good, but on the internet you can come across jahils.

For example:

Malcolm X was a rascist Muslim (only black people are Muslim) when he was in NOI. Later on he went to Muslim counties and hajj. He became a Sunni Muslim because of the attitude of other Muslims. He especially liked people from Sudan, since they were very welcoming. He changed his name to " Al hajj malik el shabbaz" . May Allah bless him and have mercy with him