Why lSisterl left Shiaism for the Sunnah!

[Bolani Muslim]

  Things I had issues with in Shiaism:

  *Claiming the Qur'an is Incomplete or deliberately put out of order by Uthman(ra)
  * Masoom imamate, claiming anyone except the Prophet(saw) cannot make mistakes
  *Baseless accusations against some of the Sahaba(ra) and making lanat on them
  *Excessive praise and veneration of dead religious leaders, including imams Ali (ra), Hassan(ra) and Hussein(ra).
   *Calling upon other than Allah, which is shirk (like saying 'ya Ali madad')
   *Rejection of saheeh hadith books simply because they are non-shi'a sources, or related by disliked Sahaba(ra)
   *Referring to women as "toys" in their hadiths, slandering both believing women and the poor/unwealthy
     al-Kafi making permissible what is haraam (sodomy)
   *Hadiths saying thath the Mahdi will slaughter sunnis along with the kuffar when he appears (as if they are not Muslims)
   *Matam - Qur'an orders us not to harm ourselves, yet matam is seen as permissible by many shi'a scholars. This made no sense to me

There are others, but after learning shi'a beliefs and rulings in detail, I decided that I didn't want to follow this any longer. It just didn't seem like a religion revealed by the Creator . I found ahlus-Sunnah more in accordance and agreement with Qur'an, and much more believable and logical, especially with their recordings of historical events. I found it more in line with the merciful reputation of the Prophet(Saw).

http://tinyurl.com/pn74l5y



There is more than one school of thought in shi'aism. I followed ithna ashariyya.

Mirat Al-Uqool Vol 12 p. 525

Majlisi said: ” This tradition (about 17000 verses in Quran) is authentic and it cannot be hidden that this tradition and many more authentic traditons are explicit in (saying) that the Quran is missing and has changed. For me, (I believe) that the traditions have reached tawatur (i.e they are numerous) with regards to the meaning, and ignoring all of it would mean ignoring all traditions accordingly , but I think that the narrations in this meaning are not less than the narrations if Imamah so how do they confirm it using traditions?”

عَلِيُّ بْنُ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ إِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ الَّذِي جَاءَ بِهِ جَبْرَئِيلُ ع إِلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ص سَبْعَةَ عَشَرَ أَلْفَ آيَةٍ
Aboo `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said: “The Qur’aan that Jibra’eel brought to Muhammad (صلى الله عليه واله وسلم) had 17,000 verses”

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 2, Kitaab FaDl Al-Qur’aan, Ch. Rare Traditions, pg. 634, hadeeth # 28

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable)
--> Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 12, pg. 525
2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
--> RawDah Al-Muttaqoon, vol. 10, pg. 21
3. Hoor Al-`Aamilee said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
--> Al-Fuwaa’id Al-Toosiyyah, topic # 96, pg. 483

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?374589-Any-Former-shia-muslims-that-have-converted-to-sunni-Islam&p=5364868&viewfull=1#post5364868



What I did find irritating about your quote is "best not to talk about this in public", "not to be discussed in public", "do not talk about this in public", "we are violating the wajib taqiyyah", ect.

This always made me angry when I was a shi'a. I always got yelled at for asking questions about the deen and told it wasn't my place to do da'wa or to ask about things only scholars should discuss. It felt more like I joined a culture than a religion. I thought it was hypocritical to only share certain parts of the religion and hide the controversial stuff from newbies and "non-members". Reminds me so much of christianity, when I used to get the rundown from my pastor for asking difficult questions.

ironically this is similar to the druze, who are a breakaway sect of shi'a that became their own religion. Druze believe that there are laymen and religious people, and only the religious are allowed to learn and practice the religion fully, while laymen aren't worthy of such devotion to God. Go figure.
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?397108-Even-the-shia-laymen-believe-in-Tahrif-al-Qur-an&p=5756672&viewfull=1#post5756672


I didn't know about it at first either, so it's not fair to say all shi'a laymen think the Qur'an is changed or that shi'a have 'different' qur'ans than 'nasibis'. Considering that most shi'a these days are not even practicing, it's ridiculous to say that they know about something so complicated. This isn't something people teach to their primary school children. It took me a year to find out what shi'a scholars believed about Qur'an or even to read hadiths supporting their views. I was given some copies of tafsir by 'imam shirazi' and that was it.

*Also before starting this fight you should know that they use "sunni" hadith to back up their positions on tahreef, so with this thread you are setting up Ayesha(Ra) for being slandered if any shi'a reads any of this and decides to mock you.


1. Anti-majos (which claims that shi'a are actually zoroastrian in origin) - while offering correct information - presents it in a very immature, unislamic manner, and can hardly be used for a civil discussion on shi'a aqida.

2. There are sunnah hadith that the shi'a use (twist) to support their claim. I'll send you an example in your rep comment so I do not link people to a shirky website.

3. Much of the shi'a hadith cursing the nasibis (sunnah) are still in farsi, urdu and arabic, and have not been translated yet. Yes, it's freely available, but it's hard to bring this information to the English-speaking world and have it be believed second-hand.


*Also, facebook isn't a good representation of the world's population. Most people on facebook are educated; they can read and write, they have time to study their various religions. They may very well be educated on the shirk of their deen and accept it fully, but that doesn't represent the millions who do not have access to such information and can only go by what their shuyookh teach them.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?397108-Even-the-shia-laymen-believe-in-Tahrif-al-Qur-an&p=5756536&viewfull=1#post5756536

[Husayn]

Ask the average 12ver girl about mut'a - she will say it is disgusting.

Then tell her that the "Imams" said it is a great honour for a woman to be a ma'joora (a rented one, i.e. girl who does mut'a with men) and she will say you are disgusting and making things up.

A lot of 12ver girls would find many 12ver hadiths and beliefs quite horrid I'd imagine.

[Bolani Muslim]

Ask the average 12ver girl about mut'a - she will say it is disgusting.

Then tell her that the "Imams" said it is a great honour for a woman to be a ma'joora (a rented one, i.e. girl who does mut'a with men) and she will say you are disgusting and making things up.

A lot of 12ver girls would find many 12ver hadiths and beliefs quite horrid I'd imagine.

Lol, happened with my mom. I was trying to give her Dawa and she wouldn't accept the Hadees about mutah as true. I was gonna show her evidence, but I didn't wanna make her feel bad. :/

[Hani]

Imamiyyah are people of desires, even when it comes to their own books they'll only accept what they like.

This ex-Shia member "lSisterl" on ummah forum is an example out of many who get to experience Tashayyu` then leave it.

[Muhammad Tazin]

There is a issue going o currently .,, I see local Shia_s of my country trying to MIX-UP nasikh-Mansukh with Tahrif-belief.
They are quoting hadith from Kitab of Ahlus Sunnah about  Ayah being abrogated ,then trying to quote it "Tahrif of Ahle Sunnah" !! 

[Hani]

That's out of ignorance and Farid has a piece in the making InshaAllah.

[labelingtheory]

  Things I had issues with in Shiaism:

  *Claiming the Qur'an is Incomplete or deliberately put out of order by Uthman(ra)

No credible Shia says the Qur'an is incomplete or put out of order. All muslims agree that the Qur'an is the same today as it was the day the prophet brought it (except for the vowels which aren't necessary to read with because they knew arabic).

  * Masoom imamate, claiming anyone except the Prophet(saw) cannot make mistakes

If a prophet won't sin why would it be hard to believe that an imam couldn't either?

  *Baseless accusations against some of the Sahaba(ra) and making lanat on them

Major scholars have condemned anyone who slanders the companions and wives of the prophet. The accusations aren't baseless as they are in both traditions. There are narrations in both traditions about the falling of the door on the daughter of the prophet (pbut) and also everyone knows who was at fault during the battle of jamul. Ayesha led a war against Ali (ra) and more muslims died in that battle than in all the previous battles before.

  *Excessive praise and veneration of dead religious leaders, including imams Ali (ra), Hassan(ra) and Hussein(ra).

I have seen your posts and others here on this forum and its really unfair that all of you blame all shias for the acts of a few. That would be like me calling all sunnis terrorists because of the actions of al-qaida. A few people may commit shirk, but even shias are against this. No shia ever says to worship the imams. Venerating the ahlulbayt is a command in the Qur'an, and that is something different. All muslims believe that the prophet's (pbuh) family is the best family of all time.

"And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification."
 33:33 Sahih International

Also in sahih muslim and other sources, there is the famous hadith where the probet (pbuh) said that he is leaving two weighty things before he dies and that is the Qur'an and the ahlulbayt. There is nothing wrong with remembering the prophet and his family, in fact great scholars such as ghazali encouraged it.

   *Calling upon other than Allah, which is shirk (like saying 'ya Ali madad')

So when people asked the prophet for it to rain was that also shirk?

Even the second caliph Umar used tawwassful through Abbas (Sahih Bukhari, Kitab al Salat Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123)

"Narrated Anas:
Whenever drought threatened them, ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin ‘Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say,”O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain and You would bless us with rain. And now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah! Bless us with rain.” And so it would rain."

   *Rejection of saheeh hadith books simply because they are non-shi'a sources, or related by disliked Sahaba(ra)

I don't think you know how ilm hadith works. Even if you look at the sunni perspective they do not accept many hadith because a shia narrated it.

   *Referring to women as "toys" in their hadiths, slandering both believing women and the poor/unwealthy
     al-Kafi making permissible what is haraam (sodomy)
   *Hadiths saying thath the Mahdi will slaughter sunnis along with the kuffar when he appears (as if they are not Muslims)

The problem is that you are using weak hadith to prove that shias believe and say crazy things. You do realize that some of these hadith books were compiled and even the authors said themselves that they would rely on later scholars to verify whether or not the hadith are sahih. I usually only argue using sahih muslims/bukhari and other reliable sunni sources, but even then I still see very outlandish statements such as Aisha and Umar correcting the Prophet because he was practicing his religion incorrectly (astaghfurallah). If I did what you did and went to weaker books, I could find even worse things. So please go to reliable sources if you are going to argue, because I can find things that are 100 times worse in sunni sources.

   *Matam - Qur'an orders us not to harm ourselves, yet matam is seen as permissible by many shi'a scholars. This made no sense to me

Matam does not hurt one's body. There are many hadith about companions of the prophet (pbut) or women who would hit themselves out of grief after someone died or when the prophet (pbuh) was injured. We even have the narration that prophet yaqoob cried until he was blind when prophet yusuf was lost. Anything involving harming ones body has been condemned by the major shia scholars. Also hitting oneself in grief coincides with the sunnah of the Qur'an and the prophet, I can give you sources if you want Inshallah

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Also, facebook isn't a good representation of the world's population. Most people on facebook are educated; they can read and write, they have time to study their various religions. They may very well be educated on the shirk of their deen and accept it fully, but that doesn't represent the millions who do not have access to such information and can only go by what their shuyookh teach them.

People on facebook or even most forums such as these are not educated. You have probably spoken to one or two shia scholars who may have not answered your questions correctly. If I have a question on Islam I either go to a learned scholar or to a website that I trust. Most of these forums are filled with people who think they know Islam just because they know how to recite a few verses in the Qur'an. Ask anyone here how long the have studies Islam with proper schooling, I doubt you will find more than a handful who are scholars in the field.

[Hani]

@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

[labelingtheory]

@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair

[Hani]

I'm sure you'll discover a lot of new things then, enjoy your stay ; )

[labelingtheory]

I'm sure you'll discover a lot of new things then, enjoy your stay ; )

I was looking forward to someone actually responding to my points

[Mythbuster1]

@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair

1) and majority shia I KNOW do believe in tehreef even your common shia folk!!!
They say you cannot follow quran without a guide, so basically in your minds its us that are doing tehreef and twisting words because the guide AINT here!!!!
He is HIDING !!!


2) it's easier to believe in flying saucers than a DIVINE IMAM, reason being they both have no ROOTS they have been derived from mans imagination.........unless you can prove the divinity from quran or from the mouth of the first imam himself ra


3) I hope you send lanah everyday on the USA for killing millions of MUSLIMS I hope you send lanah everyday on bush, Obama,Blair etc etc you know what I mean?
What's in the past ALLAH swt will deal with, our problem is here and now, our enemy is one and yet you will still slander our sahaba ra over vague unsubstantiated proofs???
Hypocrisy.....you shia need to look in the mirror and reflect!!!

4) as if there HAVENT been any terrorist shiites in history.......go pull the other one!!!
I suggest you check up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hossein_Fahmideh

For my Sunni brothers that was the first suicide bombing done by MUSLIMS, lo and behold it was a SHIITE blowing himself up killing other MUSLIMS

YOU SHIA started it, The origins of modern Istishhadi attacks lie among the Shia in Iran during the Iran–Iraq War of 1980–1988.

Well done

[Ameen]

I'm sure you'll discover a lot of new things then, enjoy your stay ; )

I was looking forward to someone actually responding to my points

And so was I. It seems like someone finally came along and calmed them down.

[Ameen]

@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair

1) and majority shia I KNOW do believe in tehreef even your common shia folk!!!
They say you cannot follow quran without a guide, so basically in your minds its us that are doing tehreef and twisting words because the guide AINT here!!!!
He is HIDING !!!


2) it's easier to believe in flying saucers than a DIVINE IMAM, reason being they both have no ROOTS they have been derived from mans imagination.........unless you can prove the divinity from quran or from the mouth of the first imam himself ra


3) I hope you send lanah everyday on the USA for killing millions of MUSLIMS I hope you send lanah everyday on bush, Obama,Blair etc etc you know what I mean?
What's in the past ALLAH swt will deal with, our problem is here and now, our enemy is one and yet you will still slander our sahaba ra over vague unsubstantiated proofs???
Hypocrisy.....you shia need to look in the mirror and reflect!!!

4) as if there HAVENT been any terrorist shiites in history.......go pull the other one!!!
I suggest you check up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hossein_Fahmideh

For my Sunni brothers that was the first suicide bombing done by MUSLIMS, lo and behold it was a SHIITE blowing himself up killing other MUSLIMS

YOU SHIA started it, The origins of modern Istishhadi attacks lie among the Shia in Iran during the Iran–Iraq War of 1980–1988.

Well done

You speak through bitterness and hatred rather than through intellect and wisdom.

1, Vast majority of the Shia do not believe in Tehreef e Quran. So please stop pushing this towards something that is not true. Even your own scholars say that one shouldn't follow the Quran or Sunnah without a guide (Ahle Ilam). When it comes to verses and Hadiths one should refer to a Mufasir and Muhadis. So I don't know what you're talking about.

2, Flying saucers and divine Imams both have roots. There is a reason and purpose for everything but it depends on Allah, he gives guidance to the one he wishes and most certainly to the one who genuinely seeks it. But for the stubborn, arrogant and ignorant it is a different story.

3, Don't you think one should send Lanath upon those who have killed and still kill people in the name of Islam??? The Khawarij who still kill people today under the name of Sipah e Sahaba, Lashkar e Janghvi, Alqaidah, Talibaan, I.S.I.S. and so on. No one accuses and abuses the Sahaba. This is a publicity stunt for and by certain people to gain attention and to cause confusion and diversion from the name issues and matters.

4, Terrorism is wrong and there is no space for it in Islam and civil society, it doesn't matter where it comes from. So please don't try to justify it. And all terrorist are criminals regardless of their background and status. Hope this satisfies you and puts your bitterness and hatred to rest.

[labelingtheory]

@labelingtheory,

Thank you for teaching us many new things we never knew before!

We learned from you that the Shia who believe in Tahreef are not credible folks.
We learned that if a prophet cannot sin then why on earth would an Imam sin!? It can't be Qiyas.
We learned that major Shia scholars prohibited us from slandering companions although those evil companions deserve to be slandered since they killed Fatimah and murdered many Muslims.
We learned that some Shia commit Shirk and others are against it but that's only because the Prophet's (saw) family is the best according to Ayat-ul-Tathir.
We learned that there is a Hadith called "al-Thaqalayn"!! That is news to me!
We learned that calling "Ya `Ali Madad" is similar to `Umar asking al-`Abbas to make Du`a' for them. Same same!
We learned that Sunnies in their science of Hadith reject many narrations because Shia narrated them. That's why Shia reject all Sunni Hadith books although for some reason Shia have many Sunni/Waqifi/Zaydi narrators in their own books which they accept.
We learned that we can no longer quote Shia books otherwise you will retaliate by pasting 100 times worse things from Sunni books!
We learned that Matam does not hurt one's body, and that hitting one's body is in Qur'an and Sunnah BUT AT THE SAME TIME Shia scholars prohibited us from any act that harms our body.

Can't wait for your next posts InshaAllah!

1. Yes, all Shia that I know of is against the belief that the Qur'an has been changed.
2. I am not doing Qiyas (although that is allowed in Shia thought if the reason is given). I am merely pointing out that if a prophet can be perfect, why would it be impossible to believe that an Imam couldn't be?
3. Please do not put words into my mouth. The majority of scholars are against slandering. Just because we don't slander someone doesn't mean that they commit sins. And just out of curiosity what is your opinion on the battle of jamal that killed more muslims than all the previous battles that the Muslims had?
4. Your wording is hilarious. "Some Shia" You act as if its a large group of us. Just like a large group of sunnis are part of al-qaida and ISIS? (sarcasm of course, I hope you get where im going with this). Shias are against shirk because only Allah is worth enough to pray to. Tawwassul is a means towards Allah, and it has been practiced by both sunnis and shias throughout history. You can look in your books and in ours. Heck even Imam Shafi did tawassul at the grave of Abu Hanifa, are you going to call him a rawafid too?
5. How does your point proof or disprove anything I have said? You should probably read what I said about ilm hadith.
6. No, I said don't quote weak hadith. I will debate with you with reliable sunni sources such as muslim and bukhari. I don't even need to use any weak hadith from the ahlsunnah to prove my points. I mean Aisha correcting the prophet's (pbuh) ghusl is just one example of how sahih your books really are.
7. Thank you for repeating everything I have just said. I honestly don't know what your argument is. I said hitting oneself is sunnah of the prophet and Qur'an. Shia scholars prohibit anything that harms your body (cutting it with any objects, etc). Merely hitting your thigh or your chest is not harming your body. Have you ever heard of anyone dying or having medical issues from just lightly hitting their chest?

Please try to read what I say instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Jazakullah khair

1) and majority shia I KNOW do believe in tehreef even your common shia folk!!!
They say you cannot follow quran without a guide, so basically in your minds its us that are doing tehreef and twisting words because the guide AINT here!!!!
He is HIDING !!!


2) it's easier to believe in flying saucers than a DIVINE IMAM, reason being they both have no ROOTS they have been derived from mans imagination.........unless you can prove the divinity from quran or from the mouth of the first imam himself ra


3) I hope you send lanah everyday on the USA for killing millions of MUSLIMS I hope you send lanah everyday on bush, Obama,Blair etc etc you know what I mean?
What's in the past ALLAH swt will deal with, our problem is here and now, our enemy is one and yet you will still slander our sahaba ra over vague unsubstantiated proofs???
Hypocrisy.....you shia need to look in the mirror and reflect!!!

4) as if there HAVENT been any terrorist shiites in history.......go pull the other one!!!
I suggest you check up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hossein_Fahmideh

For my Sunni brothers that was the first suicide bombing done by MUSLIMS, lo and behold it was a SHIITE blowing himself up killing other MUSLIMS

YOU SHIA started it, The origins of modern Istishhadi attacks lie among the Shia in Iran during the Iran–Iraq War of 1980–1988.

Well done

1. Glad you know more about Shias than I do. Can you find sources from scholars that shias would deem reliable? Khomeini? Sistani? Khamenei? Tabatabai? Khoi? Tabrizi? Hili? Why would I hide something that I don't believe in?

2. Yes there are many hadith that can prove it. Also the Qur'an talks about a man who moved the throne in the blink of an eye. How is that possible? He was just a normal human was he not?

3. The battle of the camel is not a disputed fact between sunni or shia, and the door falling on fatima because of the second caliph is in both sunni and shia sources.

4. SO this 13 year old was a terrorist from defending his country from Saddam? Wow you really know your history bro, do you even know who started that war?

If you want to talk about terrorists how about the ones fox news and cnn talk about. Do you ever hear of shia suicide bombers in iraq, afghanistan, north africa, or anywhere else in the middle east? Nope. Not all sunnis are terrorists, just like not all shias believe in the garbage that you spew.

[Hani]

Topic locked since it's very random nonacademic discussion.

[|Sister|]

The OP, brother Bolani Muslim, kindly linked me to this thread in my PM so I joined. So, Assalamu Alaikum to all my brothers and sisters; and I apologize for the single-minded post, as I only joined to reply to this misunderstanding inshaAllah.

No credible Shia says the Qur'an is incomplete or put out of order. All muslims agree that the Qur'an is the same today as it was the day the prophet brought it (except for the vowels which aren't necessary to read with because they knew arabic).

The only Muslims I knew were Shi'a at a masjid in north america and quite a few online from Paltalk, even before I was Muslim. All of the Shi'a I knew said this, it is not an uncommon claim as you imply. They also blame Umar(Ra) and Uthman (Ra) for it, even though there is no evidence to support it. We obviously reject the 17,000 ayat hadith.

Shi'a I knew personally from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Oman, Canada and the US all agreed that the Qur'an was tampered with and/or incomplete.

So no, not all Muslims agree upon the Qur'an being complete. This is your opinion and it is incorrect based on my experience.

If a prophet won't sin why would it be hard to believe that an imam couldn't either?

Because imams aren't Prophets (As).

And ma'soom is not the same as general sinfulness, you should know that. It means they are free from ANY mistake, large or small, and cannot be incorrect. The (12er) Shi'a elaborate on this by claiming that the Imams are given a special gift from Allah and are permitted to see things from the future, when all Muslims know that even the Prophet (Saw) was not permitted to see the future and that Allah alone only knows the future.

Prophets did make worldly mistakes (Adam alayhi salam eating the fruit and Moses alayhi salam getting angry and hitting) and sought forgiveness. The Prophets (as) could not make mistakes in deen because their deen was directly from Allah, but this didn't prevent them from getting angry or being mistaken about something that Allah had not previously informed them about: they (as) were not psychic and could not tell the future. 

(Mishkat 147 Muhammad told the people of Medina not to hand-pollinate their date palm trees. The yield of dates dropped and they muttered about it. Muhammad said: "If I command you about religion, accept it but if I command you about a secular thing bear in mind that I am a human being.")

Major scholars have condemned anyone who slanders the companions and wives of the prophet.

Slander isn't the same as lanaat. Lanaat is a literal curse, asking Allah to remove his blessings, and all Shi'a scholars I have ever read from have approved making lanaat on "nasibis" and certain sahaba(ra).

In addition to this, both Shi'a scholars and laymen approve of the view that Aisha(Ra) and Hind(Ra) were guilty of lacking hayaa with men, and blame Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra) of being enemies of the Ahlulbayt and changing qur'an and/or causing the death of Fatima (Ra) and her (alleged) unborn child.

They do not consider this "slander" so obviously you would not classify it as such. But this is outright backbiting because the events mentioned are untrue, so in addition to qualifying as slander in Islam, it is a lie against upright Muslims.

I have seen your posts and others here on this forum and its really unfair that all of you blame all shias for the acts of a few.

I do not know you and it makes me uncomfortable that a strange man follows my posts on an unrelated forum. But if you truly did follow my posts on shi'aism, you would know that I do not blame any shi'a on the acts of a few. I always defend the laymen and those who do not subscribe to these views. I blame the shi'a doctrine itself as kufr and shirk. I do not call individual people kaafirs or mushrikeen.

 

Venerating the ahlulbayt is a command in the Qur'an, and that is something different.

Respecting them is, not venerating them. Please check a dictionary for the difference.

Also in sahih muslim and other sources, there is the famous hadith where the probet (pbuh) said that he is leaving two weighty things before he dies and that is the Qur'an and the ahlulbayt. There is nothing wrong with remembering the prophet and his family, in fact great scholars such as ghazali encouraged it.

I never said there was a problem with it and no muslim ever would. I said there was a problem with over-reverence and worship of imams and saints.

So when people asked the prophet for it to rain was that also shirk?

Tawassul is not the same as screaming YA ALI MADAD instead of Allahumma/Ya Allah. This is a preference towards Ali (ra) instead of Allah Himself (swt) and it is calling to a dead person to aid you instead of Allah Himself (Swt), who is the Only One able to help a Muslim and the Only One worthy of begging from.

I don't think you know how ilm hadith works. Even if you look at the sunni perspective they do not accept many hadith because a shia narrated it.

I'm well aware of how hadith are graded. Shi'a hadith are rejected because of the weakness of their narrators and lack of links back to the orginal narrators, not because they are "Shi'a". However, Shi'a do reject authentic narrations that disagree with their beliefs even if the chain is sound and the narrators are known for trustworthiness. Except of course when they are using them to try and refute "sunnis".

The problem is that you are using weak hadith to prove that shias believe and say crazy things. 

Yes, I notice this whenever a Shi'a tries to debate me. Anytime I show them a hadith they dislike, they claim it is "weak" and can't be used; even if the source itself is graded as hasan or sahih. You cannot declare a hadith mursal just because you dislike what it says.

Matam does not hurt one's body. There are many hadith about companions of the prophet (pbut) or women who would hit themselves out of grief after someone died or when the prophet (pbuh) was injured.

Slapping yourself in the face out of grief is not the same as lashing yourself with a cat-o-nine-tails of razors or slicing open your infant's head with a knife. It is disgusting you would even try and equate the two. That is like saying hitting someone with a miswak is the same as taking a sledghammer to their face. And the Prophet (Saw) forbade slapping faces and wailing over the dead, and reminded women with hellfire for doing so. I can show you these sources as well InshaAllah.

People on facebook or even most forums such as these are not educated.

They are more educated than the people living in places where good schooling and internet doesn't exist, which includes many places in the islamic world, unfortunately. I have discussed with students of shi'a knowledge who offered much more evidence against shi'aism than any layman could provide. It was actually the educated students and scholars I conversed with that taught me much of what I dislike about the shi'a religion. 

You have probably spoken to one or two shia scholars who may have not answered your questions correctly. If I have a question on Islam I either go to a learned scholar or to a website that I trust. Most of these forums are filled with people who think they know Islam just because they know how to recite a few verses in the Qur'an. Ask anyone here how long the have studies Islam with proper schooling, I doubt you will find more than a handful who are scholars in the field.

My questions were answered correctly and in accordance with shi'a beliefs, which is why I disbelieved in it. How arrogant of you to assume I am uneducated on shi'aism just because I disagree with you. I have spoken to much more than "one or two" scholars and I can assure you I did my research on your deen before I decided to leave it.

This statement is just as ridiculous and arrogant as the christians who tell me I do not know/have not read the Bible, I never met a real pastor and I never was a real christian most of my life just because I decided to leave it.

-----------------------

If anyone has any questions regarding anything quoted in the OP, feel free to ask and I can try to clarify. I swear by Allah SWT that my purpose for joining is not to troll or belittle anyone, just to reply to this post which is full of misunderstandings about myself. I don't use ummah anymore so post here inshaAllah.

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullah.

[MuslimK]

Walaikum Salam wr wb,

Praise be to Allah! He guides whom he wills.

[Optimus Prime]

Congratulations sister for coming over to side of truth, and away from the snake-pit that is Rafidhism.

What prompted you to see the light?

[Khaled]

They are more educated than the people living in places where good schooling and internet doesn't exist, which includes many places in the islamic world, unfortunately. I have discussed with students of shi'a knowledge who offered much more evidence against shi'aism than any layman could provide. It was actually the educated students and scholars I conversed with that taught me much of what I dislike about the shi'a religion.

This is really the crux of the matter as far as I am concerned.  The average Shi'a has no clue what their religion teaches and what their Ulama say, and rather their only experience is with other laymen Shi'a who (apparently) don't believe in the kufr and the shirk that their scholars preach.  So they keep saying "most Shi'as don't believe in Tahrif" and "you should ask as a scholar" when really they are talking about what's going on in their mosque and the scholar they are referring to is the guy that gives the khutbah.  How can any Shi'ee in his right mind actually question the FACT that the majority of their scholars outright said the Qur'an has been corrupted?