TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: fgss on June 30, 2016, 07:08:38 AM
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Assalam o Alaikum all respected forum users and guests,
This is very important, i realy want to know your personal opinion about this.
"WHAT YOU DISLIKE THE MOST ABOUT AHLUL SUNNAH?"
I will also share my opinion on this later.
Jazak Allah Khairan.
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As a whole, Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah strives to stay upon the Qur'an and Sunnah. How is it then possible to dislike anything about it?
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I can never dislike anyone who is truly a person of the Sunnah and the Jama'ah
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This is a very tough question because Sunnis are over 1.5 billion in population. So its very difficult to generalize an opinion about Ahle Sunnah.
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I will give an example. Lets take Hinduism. I met a few Gujaratis who I felt were very racist toward Muslims, but I didn't see this level of racism from Hindus that are from other parts of India. Does this mean I can generalize on the entire Hindu religion or population? Likewise, the majority people in all schools are muqalids. They just want to follow basic pillars and live an easy life, so this makes it hard to pass a judgement.
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I don't like false sunnis (meaning shias who do taqiyya trying to fool real sunnis).
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Finally I got one. Ahle Sunnah do not spend time and emphasis on researching the 12er Shia sect. Whereas 12ers its part of their aqeeda to antagonize Ahle Sunnah.
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There are few things. The major one is that when sometimes they come up with weak evidences to defend against strong and established evidences among themselves and thus reject those facts. And this habbit is adopted from shias, who applied that principle on true companions of Prophet (s.a.w.w). It was not originally part of Ahlul Sunnah manhaj.
Other thing -- they speak and write less about Ahlebait as compared to shias. Not so many books are available on Ahlebait. Here I am not talking about any particular town/area, but about sunnies as a whole. As a result people (ignorant sunnies) go to shia mosques and majalis and learn about ahlebait through them. Till 2012 I was also among those ignorant sunnies. As a result most of them fall into the trap of their lies and deceptions. Ahlul Sunnah have true merits of Ahlebait in their authentic hadith books. If they narrate and propagate only those merits from their mosques and events regularly then you will see more people will come to ahlul sunnah even from shias to listen the authentic and true merits of ahlebait. Their events will become empty and less attractive. Their main weapon is love of ahlebait, through which they are controlling the minds of laymen from both shias and sunnies.
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I don't like false sunnis (meaning shias who do taqiyya trying to fool real sunnis).
Then you must really like me - my name gives away my faith.
Finally I got one. Ahle Sunnah do not spend time and emphasis on researching the 12er Shia sect. Whereas 12ers its part of their aqeeda to antagonize Ahle Sunnah.
News to me. So this site has been create to refute and dare I say mislead about the shia and you say part of our faith is to antagonize the Ahle Sunnah. When and where does this happen?
Please dont quote Yasir Al-Habib or his kind. I don't consider him shia.
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News to me. So this site has been create to refute and dare I say mislead about the shia and you say part of our faith is to antagonize the Ahle Sunnah. When and where does this happen?
Please dont quote Yasir Al-Habib or his kind. I don't consider him shia.
Watch Shia TV channels and read any Shia website and tell me with a straight face that they don't misrepresent the vast majority of the ummah and our views.
You're saying that you don't consider Yassir a Shia, in another comment you related extremism (suicide bombings) to Sunnis. I hope you realize your inconsistency :)
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Watch Shia TV channels and read any Shia website and tell me with a straight face that they don't misrepresent the vast majority of the ummah and our views.
No they do not misrepresent the vast majority's views. They (we) simply present our point of view and leave it to the viewers to discern the truth.
You're saying that you don't consider Yassir a Shia, in another comment you related extremism (suicide bombings) to Sunnis. I hope you realize your inconsistency :)
I didnt mean to sound that I consider Yasir to be a Sunni. He is just a fitna-monger and nothing more.
Also, salafi and wahabis who form the basis of all terror in the name of Islam call themselves Sunnis. I think it is about time the followers of the 4 great Imams take issue with these guys spoiling the name of Islam, Allah and the Prophet for their political agendas.
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Also, salafi and wahabis who form the basis of all terror in the name of Islam call themselves Sunnis. I think it is about time the followers of the 4 great Imams take issue with these guys spoiling the name of Islam, Allah and the Prophet for their political agendas.
You did not understand Bolani Muslim's point or like to feign ignorance. Yasser Al-Habib is just as Shia as ISIS is Sunni, perhaps more! Somehow you cut the former slack (and conveniently distance your school from him) while you hold us responsible to renounce and condemn the latter (which majority of our scholars have, save those "scholars" who benefit from ISIS).
ISIS is not even a Muslim group, let alone Sunni.
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Also, salafi and wahabis who form the basis of all terror in the name of Islam call themselves Sunnis. I think it is about time the followers of the 4 great Imams take issue with these guys spoiling the name of Islam, Allah and the Prophet for their political agendas.
You did not understand Bolani Muslim's point or like to feign ignorance. Yasser Al-Habib is just as Shia as ISIS is Sunni, perhaps more! Somehow you cut the former slack (and conveniently distance your school from him) while you hold us responsible to renounce and condemn the latter (which majority of our scholars have, save those "scholars" who benefit from ISIS).
ISIS is not even a Muslim group, let alone Sunni.
But I am condemning Yasir Al-Habib. I have condemned him here, on Shia-Chat and really whenever his name is brought up. I present no excuses for him.
And I agree with what you say about ISIS. But are they not spoiling the image of Islam. All I am saying is that more needs to be done than simply 'distancing' ourselves from ISIS. They need to be condemned in every juma khutba, in every article, everywhere.
I asked this question on ShiaChat and will ask here too. How many people who visit this forum regularly spent the same amount of time fighting the scourge of ISIS on other social media sites?
To you specifically - what was the last salafi/wahabi site you visited and condemned them or tried to rectify their beliefs? When did you do this?
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News to me. So this site has been create to refute and dare I say mislead about the shia and you say part of our faith is to antagonize the Ahle Sunnah.
Every person can be correct and wrong after Prophets. Let's not be blind muqalids.
When and where does this happen?
Through Tabarra. Your sect believes that only the 12ers are Momins, and that the rest of the Ummah are non-Momin.
Please dont quote Yasir Al-Habib or his kind. I don't consider him shia.
Yes he is a Rafidi Shia. Naskhawani blamed Ahle Sunnah for ISIS is doing.
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I asked this question on ShiaChat and will ask here too. How many people who visit this forum regularly spent the same amount of time fighting the scourge of ISIS on other social media sites?
To you specifically - what was the last salafi/wahabi site you visited and condemned them or tried to rectify their beliefs? When did you do this?
Cute! Our Shia brothers are now adopting the tactics of the West. When a cowardly attack takes place at the hands of ISIS, they want us to condemn the barbaric group whereas we are like, "we (Muslims) are the biggest victims of ISIS, literally, for they have killed far many Muslims than non-Muslims". Not to mention the parallel religion they have inaugurated and given it the title, "Islam" thereby tarnishing our beautiful religion.
But allow me to answer you specifically, clearly and very directly (with evidence). Please visit www.worde.org
In their own words, "The World Organization for Resource Development and Education [WORDE] is a nonprofit, educational organization whose mission is to enhance communication and understanding between communities to mitigate social and political conflict." They hold regular seminars for Muslims and non-Muslims (attended by police, local politicians, et cetera) educating them about ISIS and their remoteness from Islam or anything Islamic for that matter. In fact, their whole outlook is to offer an alternate viewpoint to the Wahabi/Salafi paradigm. Guess what? I am a member of that community and go there almost every Saturday. So to answer your question, the last time I condemned a Kharijite group (like ISIS), or blinded Wahabi filth, was over the weekend.
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Through Tabarra. Your sect believes that only the 12ers are Momins, and that the rest of the Ummah are non-Momin.
All tabarra is sending la'an on the enemies of the AhlulBayt. One would think every Muslim would do so.
Yes he is a Rafidi Shia. Naskhawani blamed Ahle Sunnah for ISIS is doing.
Let's be specific. Nakshwani blames Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn Abdul Wahab for ISIS and their ideology.
Cute! Our Shia brothers are now adopting the tactics of the West. When a cowardly attack takes place at the hands of ISIS, they want us to condemn the barbaric group whereas we are like, "we (Muslims) are the biggest victims of ISIS, literally, for they have killed far many Muslims than non-Muslims". Not to mention the parallel religion they have inaugurated and given it the title, "Islam" thereby tarnishing our beautiful religion.
But allow me to answer you specifically, clearly and very directly (with evidence). Please visit www.worde.org
In their own words, "The World Organization for Resource Development and Education [WORDE] is a nonprofit, educational organization whose mission is to enhance communication and understanding between communities to mitigate social and political conflict." They hold regular seminars for Muslims and non-Muslims (attended by police, local politicians, et cetera) educating them about ISIS and their remoteness from Islam or anything Islamic for that matter. In fact, their whole outlook is to offer an alternate viewpoint to the Wahabi/Salafi paradigm. Guess what? I am a member of that community and go there almost every Saturday. So to answer your question, the last time I condemned a Kharijite group (like ISIS), or blinded Wahabi filth, was over the weekend.
How can you say I am using Western tactics when you are doing exactly what I am asking if anyone is doing? And kudos to you for stepping up.
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All tabarra is sending la'an on the enemies of the AhlulBayt.
We differ on who those enemies are.
One would think every Muslim would do so.
Would you send lana on those who say the Quran is incomplete? One would think every Muslim would declare such a person to be a non-Muslim.
Let's be specific. Nakshwani blames Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn Abdul Wahab for ISIS and their ideology.
He said he wishes he can name another person who I am sure is Umar. However, he couldn't due to taqiyyah. This is why Yassir Habib is good. He explains the 12er Shia views openly.
Also he said Ahle Sunnah and not only those two.
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We differ on who those enemies are.
we most surely do but I am sure we can agree on some. For example Yazid???
Would you send lana on those who say the Quran is incomplete? One would think every Muslim would declare such a person to be a non-Muslim.
Absolutely. I send la'an on all those who believe in the incompleteness of the Quran. Now your turn to say la'an on the enemies of the AhlulBayt whoever they may be.
He said he wishes he can name another person who I am sure is Umar. However, he couldn't due to taqiyyah. This is why Yassir Habib is good. He explains the 12er Shia views openly.
Also he said Ahle Sunnah and not only those two.
you assuming the 3rd person is Umar is only conjecture. Why not Muawiya or Yazid, etc?
I have not heard him say Ahle-Sunnah. What I have heard is him saying that "any ahle-sunnah is 1 sermon away from becoming a terrorist if they read or here sermons about Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn Abdul Wahab's teachings." He is still talking about Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn Abdul Wahab
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we most surely do but I am sure we can agree on some. For example Yazid???
Sure
Absolutely. I send la'an on all those who believe in the incompleteness of the Quran.
So this includes al Kuylani and Mullah Majlisi?
Now your turn to say la'an on the enemies of the AhlulBayt whoever they may be.
La'na on whoever Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain send la'na on. Is this good enough?
you assuming the 3rd person is Umar is only conjecture. Why not Muawiya or Yazid, etc?
The reason is 12ers do no do taqiyyah against Muawiyah and Yazid. So it has to be Umar.
I have not heard him say Ahle-Sunnah. What I have heard is him saying that "any ahle-sunnah is 1 sermon away from becoming a terrorist if they read or here sermons about Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn Abdul Wahab's teachings." He is still talking about Ibn Taymiyah and Ibn Abdul Wahab
Do you have detail about Ibn Taymiyah and his fatwa to kill the 12er Shia? I would like detail.
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How can you say I am using Western tactics when you are doing exactly what I am asking if anyone is doing? And kudos to you for stepping up.
You want us to condemn ISIS because they make your kind out to be their enemy. You play victim and want compensation. That is a Western tactic. The West expects Muslims to condemn a non-Muslim entity just because it (once in a while) attacks their kind. We, on the other hand, condemn ISIS because they are contradict Islamic principles of peace, justice and humanity.
Don't need your approval! I do it as my service towards Islam, not to please the Shia or the West.
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So this includes al Kuylani and Mullah Majlisi?
Sure if they held such a belief. However narrating a quote from someone and holding the same belief are different.
La'na on whoever Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain send la'na on. Is this good enough?
Well its a start... :)
The reason is 12ers do no do taqiyyah against Muawiyah and Yazid. So it has to be Umar.
What were the actions of Caliph Umar that leads you to believe it was him? Why not Caliphs Abu Bakr or Uthman? Or AR ibn Awf? etc?
Do you have detail about Ibn Taymiyah and his fatwa to kill the 12er Shia? I would like detail.
My homework then...
You want us to condemn ISIS because they make your kind out to be their enemy. You play victim and want compensation. That is a Western tactic. The West expects Muslims to condemn a non-Muslim entity just because it (once in a while) attacks their kind. We, on the other hand, condemn ISIS because they are contradict Islamic principles of peace, justice and humanity.
Wrong, I want you to condemn ISIS because they portray Islam and the Prophet in a negative light. We are neither looking for your sympathies not need compensation from you. Slightly off topic but nevertheless relevant, how come the bastions of Islam Saudi/UAE/Qatar/Kuwait have not taken in any refuges from Syria and Iraq? Turkey has, Lebanon has and even Jordan.
Don't need your approval! I do it as my service towards Islam, not to please the Shia or the West.
I am not giving you my approval but simply lauding your actions whatever your intentions may have been.
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Sure if they held such a belief. However narrating a quote from someone and holding the same belief are different.
Well there is quote from Mullah Majalisi were he accepted that are 17,000 verses in the Quran and he authenticated it. The 12er Shia scholar are silent on the issue. They do not draw a judgement that the current Quran we have, whoever considers it incomplete is a non-Muslim. Are you really going head and saying such people deserve la'na? Or are you thinking in your mind that the 12th Imam's Quran is real complete version and that's the one which complete?
Well its a start... :)
Prophet Yusuf's (as) brother were his enemies but there is no proof that he cursed them. So likewise, I will have to accept what is sunnah and not what our conclusions say about who deserves la'na.
What were the actions of Caliph Umar that leads you to believe it was him? Why not Caliphs Abu Bakr or Uthman? Or AR ibn Awf? etc?
The reason is your sect believes Umar killed Fatima (sa) which if it was true makes him even worst than Yazid.
My homework then...
You are aware he lived in the time of Al Qami who worked with Mongals and told them to invade Iraq. In return they Mongals killed over 1.6 millions Iraqis. Then in return Al Qami was promoted as well.
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Wrong, I want you to condemn ISIS because they portray Islam and the Prophet in a negative light. We are neither looking for your sympathies not need compensation from you. Slightly off topic but nevertheless relevant, how come the bastions of Islam Saudi/UAE/Qatar/Kuwait have not taken in any refuges from Syria and Iraq? Turkey has, Lebanon has and even Jordan.
I am used to you derailing discussions but neither am I Saudi, nor Emirati and I am not Kuwaiti either. It does not tick me off as much when you derail discussions or put the onus on us (to chase your red-herrings). It infuriates me when I see you build a premise - like declaring Saudi Arabia, UAE and Kuwait bastions of Islam - and then posing a question to me (regarding those countries not taking in refugees)? Did I declare them bastions of Islam? No! Do I consider them bastions of Islam? No! You build your own premises and then attack them to make it appear as though you are refuting us. In reality, you are deceiving yourself and learning_boy (or whatever his username is)!
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You should condemn all the LIARS in history of Shiite Islam for they PORTRAY ISLAM AND PROPHET SAW in a negative light😜
Shiitism came before Isis
So come along now condemn them liars of hidden living imams, the liars of divine Imamate false concepts, the liars who say mutah wasn't banned, the liars who curse the wives and friends.......condemn them killers who kill on the basis of the above, get sissytani and nakshajawani to get the ball rolling
Otherwise your talking from your rear end😉👍