11th Imam Takfir's on the Waqifis.

[Rationalist]

[Farid]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

[Farid]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

Really? Every time I discuss this with a Shi'ee, they try to make it sound like I am a mustadh'af. Hah!

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

Really? Every time I discuss this with a Shi'ee, they try to make it sound like I am a mustadh'af. Hah!

Not you for sure.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

Really? Every time I discuss this with a Shi'ee, they try to make it sound like I am a mustadh'af. Hah!

This is a quite nice article on salvation. I believe most, if not all, of what is in there are the orthodox Shi'i positions on salvation.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Not sure why the link to the site didn't pop up. Is it against site policy?

Anyway:

https://purifiedhousehold.com/salvation-of-non-shias/

[Farid]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

Really? Every time I discuss this with a Shi'ee, they try to make it sound like I am a mustadh'af. Hah!

Not you for sure.

Thanks for being blunt.

Why do you believe that the hujjah has been applied on me though?

[Rationalist]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

Really? Every time I discuss this with a Shi'ee, they try to make it sound like I am a mustadh'af. Hah!

This is a quite nice article on salvation. I believe most, if not all, of what is in there are the orthodox Shi'i positions on salvation.

Scholars like Shaykh Saduq believed taqiyyah must be done till the 12th Imam appears.

"Taqiyya is an obligatory duty (farida wajiba) upon us under the governance of the oppressors, thus whoever abandons it has opposed the religion of the Imamiyyah and has separated from it.As-Sadiq (as) said, “Even if I said ‘the one who abandons taqiyya is as the one who abandons salat,’ I would be speaking the truth.”Taqiyya is in all things, until it reaches bloodshed. If it reaches bloodshed then there is no taqiyya. Allah, sublime be His name, has given validity to the appearance of friendship (muwalah) to the deniers (kafirin) in the state of taqiyya. He, `azza wa jalla, has said, “The believers do not take the unbelievers as awliya instead of the believers, then whoever does that has nothing from Allah, except if you have a fear of them.”It is related from as-Sadiq (as) that he was asked about the saying of Allah, `azza wa jalla, “Verily the most noble of you with Allah is the most fearing”. He said “The one from you who most practices taqiyya.”He (as) said, “Mix with the people on the outside, and oppose them on the inside, so long as the affair is a longing.”He (as) said, “Allah have mercy on a command we urge the people towards and it has not made us to be hated by them.”He (as) said, “Visit their sick, attend their funerals, and pray in their masaajid.”He (as) said, “One who prays in the first row with them is as though he had prayed in the first row with the Messenger of Allah (sawas).”He said, “Ostentation (riya’) with the hypocrite in his house is worship, and with the believer, is shirk.”Taqiyya is obligatory; it is not allowed to abandon it until the Qa’im (as) comes forth. Whoso abandons it has entered in the interdiction of Allah, `azza wa jalla, and the interdiction of His Messenger and the Imams, the blessings of Allah be upon them all. "
(Kitab al-Hidaya Shaykh Saduq)

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

Really? Every time I discuss this with a Shi'ee, they try to make it sound like I am a mustadh'af. Hah!

This is a quite nice article on salvation. I believe most, if not all, of what is in there are the orthodox Shi'i positions on salvation.

Scholars like Shaykh Saduq believed taqiyyah must be done till the 12th Imam appears.

"Taqiyya is an obligatory duty (farida wajiba) upon us under the governance of the oppressors, thus whoever abandons it has opposed the religion of the Imamiyyah and has separated from it.As-Sadiq (as) said, “Even if I said ‘the one who abandons taqiyya is as the one who abandons salat,’ I would be speaking the truth.”Taqiyya is in all things, until it reaches bloodshed. If it reaches bloodshed then there is no taqiyya. Allah, sublime be His name, has given validity to the appearance of friendship (muwalah) to the deniers (kafirin) in the state of taqiyya. He, `azza wa jalla, has said, “The believers do not take the unbelievers as awliya instead of the believers, then whoever does that has nothing from Allah, except if you have a fear of them.”It is related from as-Sadiq (as) that he was asked about the saying of Allah, `azza wa jalla, “Verily the most noble of you with Allah is the most fearing”. He said “The one from you who most practices taqiyya.”He (as) said, “Mix with the people on the outside, and oppose them on the inside, so long as the affair is a longing.”He (as) said, “Allah have mercy on a command we urge the people towards and it has not made us to be hated by them.”He (as) said, “Visit their sick, attend their funerals, and pray in their masaajid.”He (as) said, “One who prays in the first row with them is as though he had prayed in the first row with the Messenger of Allah (sawas).”He said, “Ostentation (riya’) with the hypocrite in his house is worship, and with the believer, is shirk.”Taqiyya is obligatory; it is not allowed to abandon it until the Qa’im (as) comes forth. Whoso abandons it has entered in the interdiction of Allah, `azza wa jalla, and the interdiction of His Messenger and the Imams, the blessings of Allah be upon them all. "
(Kitab al-Hidaya Shaykh Saduq)

Shaykh Al-Saduq (rah) had a lot of Fiqhi opinions that are not mashoor amongst the ta'ifa. Shaykh Al-Mufid (rah), I believe, refuted him on taqiyya.

Most jurists today have categorised taqiyya into different forms. The form you see a lot of Shi'a utilising is "al-taqiyya al-mudaratiyya" - which pretty much calls for visiting the sick Sunnis, attending their funerals, praying with them.

[Farid]

Zlatan, please see my last post.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Thanks for sharing. They are blunt with dead sects. I wish they would be this clear with Sunnis.

We are extremely clear. Ever read the sayings of our fuqaha regarding the status of the mukhalif? It is clear as daylight. Sure you don't see Shi'a propogating it a lot, that's because they fear for their safety and/or the safety of their fellow Shi'a.

Really? Every time I discuss this with a Shi'ee, they try to make it sound like I am a mustadh'af. Hah!

Not you for sure.

Thanks for being blunt.

Why do you believe that the hujjah has been applied on me though?

The article I posted makes it clear who falls under "mustadh'af". Clearly you don't fall under that.

[Farid]

We're having a discussion bro. Do entertain my questions. =]

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

We're having a discussion bro. Do entertain my questions. =]

No you don't, because the hujjah has been mentioned to you, you are a knowledgable person, you have quite a sum of knowledge about tashayyu and wilayah of Imam Ali (as). You have no excuse.

[Farid]

We're having a discussion bro. Do entertain my questions. =]

No you don't, because the hujjah has been mentioned to you, you are a knowledgable person, you have quite a sum of knowledge about tashayyu and wilayah of Imam Ali (as). You have no excuse.

Wilayah of Ali? That isn't the main problem. Even if I did accept that, what about the other eleven? Surely you aren't claiming that I have no excuses with them as well?!

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

We're having a discussion bro. Do entertain my questions. =]

No you don't, because the hujjah has been mentioned to you, you are a knowledgable person, you have quite a sum of knowledge about tashayyu and wilayah of Imam Ali (as). You have no excuse.

Wilayah of Ali? That isn't the main problem. Even if I did accept that, what about the other eleven? Surely you aren't claiming that I have no excuses with them as well?!

Indeed. Denial of one is like denial of all of them.

[Hani]

Indeed. Denial of one is like denial of all of them.

So now you basically must establish the Hujjah upon him regarding the 11 others. Please feel free to do so.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Indeed. Denial of one is like denial of all of them.

So now you basically must establish the Hujjah upon him regarding the 11 others. Please feel free to do so.

Well I believe the Prophet told us who they are. A quick scroll in Shi'i hadith literature and you will find proof.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Indeed. Denial of one is like denial of all of them.

So now you basically must establish the Hujjah upon him regarding the 11 others. Please feel free to do so.

Well I believe the Prophet told us who they are. A quick scroll in Shi'i hadith literature and you will find proof.

Shia scholar of Hadith Muhammad Baqir al-Behbudi writes in "Ma`rifat al-Hadith" pg.172:

على انك عرفت في بحث الشذوذ عن نظام الامامة ان الأحاديث المروية في النصوص على الأئمة جملة من خبر اللوح وغيره كلها مصنوعة في عهد الغيبة والحيرة وقبلها بقليل فلو كانت هذه النصوص المتوافرة موجوده عند الشيعة اللإمامية لما اختلفوا في معرفة الأئمة هذا الاختلاف الفاضح ولما وقعت الحيرة لأساطين المذهب واركان الحديث سنوات عديدة وكانوا في غنى ان يتسرعوا في تأليف الكتب في اثبات الغيبة وكشف الحيرة عن قلوب الامة بهذه الكثرة

[And you (reader) now know after the research on "al-Shudhudh `an Nizam al-Imamah" that the narrations about the general identity of the Imams such as the narration of the Tablet (1) and others, are all fabricated during the time of al-Ghaybah (2) and al-Hayrah (3) and some short time before it. For if these narrations were available with the Imami Shia, they would not have disagreed so openly and greatly about the identity of the Imams, nor would the biggest personalities and narrators of Hadith have faced much confusion for long years, nor would they have needed to quickly write books proving the Ghaybah to unveil the confusion from the hearts of the nation in such great numbers.] 

[Hani]

Indeed. Denial of one is like denial of all of them.

So now you basically must establish the Hujjah upon him regarding the 11 others. Please feel free to do so.

Well I believe the Prophet told us who they are. A quick scroll in Shi'i hadith literature and you will find proof.

No bro, that's not gonna cut it. Please establish the Hujjah upon brother Farid with regards to your Imams. Post your evidence here, no need for newspapers, make it clear and authentic to establish your sect's Hujjah.

You have 11, you start in order or randomly, one at a time or altogether combined in one verse.