TwelverShia.net Forum

A religion of excuses and reactions

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Hani

A religion of excuses and reactions
« on: July 15, 2014, 06:05:01 PM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,

This will be a big topic, and let me explain why.

Islam as we know it is a religion of strong evidence and clear proofs.

Let's talk about Tashayyu` though...

As you all know the Shia religious beliefs usually make no sense and are in complete contradiction to Qur'an, Sunnah and established historical facts.

When our early scholars bombarded them with strong evidence, leaders of the Imamiyyah resorted to fabricating excuses in their ancient books, and for each attack they fabricated a non-convincing excuse and sometimes they are forced to make up other excuses to cover up the first excuse.

This dear brothers is why the topic will be big, because Tashayyu` is a reactionary religion full of excuses. Their beliefs are so contradictory and even their excuses come out as contradictory.

What we're going to do, is that I'll list a bunch of titles, each title is problematic for Imami faith, under each title I'll list as many excuses as I can gather (listing the sources if possible) in a very simple brief way.

I want you guys to contribute and I shall update this post with all your contributions if they are correct and follow the format below.

WHY DID `ALI NOT RETURN FADAK IN HIS REIGN AND DURING HIS LEADERSHIP?


-Because Fatimah was dead and so was the first Khalifah so `Ali ignored the matter. [Shia member on our forum]

-We Ahlul-Bayt do not take back anything which was taken away from us unjustly or through oppression. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-He hated to take back something that Allah has already punished its usurper and rewarded the one who was oppressed. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-If I were to take back Fadak and return it to Fatimah's children, my army would have turned against me because I changed `Umar's Sunnah and some would have rebelled. [al-Kafi]

-People thought that Fadak was public property for 25 years, if he gives it to his children they'll accuse him of corruption. [rafed.net]

-He was going to spend its money on the poor and needy in any case so it makes no difference, thus he never returned it. [rafed.net]

-What shall I do: Fadak, or no Fadak, while tomorrow this body is to go into the grave in whose darkness its traces will be destroyed and (even) news of it will disappear? (Meaning, he will die anyway so why bother returning it) [Nahj-ul-Balagha]

-He did not return Fadak, because he did not wish that people think that he asked for the Khilafah for the sake of material gain. [Ayatulla al-Tabrizi]

-He did not care for the materialistic matters nor the decorations of the worldly life. Since he is the owner, he can drop his right and no one can question him. [yahosein.net member]

-It is not known whether he took it back and gave the family of Fatimah its produce or kept it the way it was because of the circumstances at the time. [Ayatulla Rouhani, istefta.com]

-He did return it and all else is ignorance. He was the leader so all the produce that goes into Bayt-ul-Maal is under his control. [Yasir al-Habeeb, video lecture]

-He did not return Fadak nor did he change the rulings (of those before him) because he even in his position of Khalifah was in a state of extreme Taqiyyah. [Sayyid al-Murtada, al-Shafi]

-Maybe he and his family decided to make it a Waqf, they used to spend its produce on the Muslims. [Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr, Fadak fil-Tareekh]

-Previous Khulafa' placed the land in possession of evil people from bani Umayyah, had he restored it by force these people would have reacted with open opposition, and spread rumours, Fitnah and hatred against the Imam. [shiapen.com]

-He was busy with priorities, such as overcoming social poverty, unemployment, alienation, criminality, nepotism... Fadak was a personal matter of low priority to him as a leader. [shiapen.com]

-He promised Rasul-Allah (saw) to not kill his opponents, returning it by force would have led to him killing Marwan. [shiapen.com]

-Fear that people would apostate if he were to take Fadak back. Just as fear of disputes and return to Jahiliyya prevented him from claiming his right of Khilafat back, the same applied to the Fadak dispute. [shiapen.com]

-The Caliph offered it to Musa bin Ja`far, but he said he would not accept it from him unless he gave him the entire piece of land, he claimed its borders (Fafak's) stretches from Africa to Yemen to Samarqand. [al-Kafi & Ja`far al-Subhani in al-Adwa']

-Due to the Fadak incident, Fatimah left this world in anger. He didn't want to reduce the anger of Fatimah by taking Fadak back. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

-He never took Fadak back by sword because this family never use sword for their personal benefits. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THE 12th IMAM'S GHAYBAH?

-He feared he would be killed by the Khalifah's soldiers. [Ghaybat al-Tusi]

-He did not wish to give Bay`ah to the oppressors as his fathers did. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-To follow the Sunnah of previous prophets, such as `Isa (as) and Khadir (as). [Kamal-ul-Deen]

-He does not have companions with good qualities equal to the amount of the people of Badr [al-Mufid, Rasa’il al-Ghaybah].

-As a test from God, those who believe in Ghaybah are true believers. [Bihar-ul-Anwar]

-Allah deprived us of him because of our corruption. [Ghaybat-ul-Tusi]

-For a wisdom only Allah knows. [Center of Belief Research, aqaed.com & Ghaybat-ul-Tusi]

-Until all the believers who are born from the hypocrites have come into existence, then after it he shall appear and he won't forgive any denier. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

-He fears that even the children of Fatimah may kill and cut him to pieces. [Ghaybat al-Tusi]

WHY DID `ALI MARRY-OFF HIS DAUGHTER TO `UMAR?

-It wasn't his daughter, he told a Jewish Jinn female to marry `Umar in shape of his daughter. [Kashani, al-Wafi]

-`Umar threatened to accuse him of theft, so he had to marry her off to the Kafir to avoid physical harm. [al-Kafi]

-al-Zubayr bin Bakkar fabricated this story, no marriage took place. [al-Masa'il al-Sarawiyyah, al-Mufid]

-`Umar was not a Kafir, he was apparently Muslim so the marriage is legitimate and no one can blame `Ali. [al-Muhaqqiq al-Sha`rani, al-Wafi]

-There was a confusion, this was Umm Kulthoum the daughter of Abu Bakr, not `Ali. [shiachat.com]

-Many narrations show that they were enemies, so he can't have married her to him. [shiachat.com]

-The narration in the Shia books was said as Taqiyyah. [alqatrah.net, Yasir al-Habib]

-`Umar raped her without her guardian's consent, it was al-`Abbas who was responsible for this. [alqatrah.net]


WHY DID THE PROPHET (saw) NOT MENTION `ALI'S IMAMAH AT THE FAREWELL HAJJ?


-He wanted to announce it in Madinah as he would have the support of the Ansar. [Sira` Quraysh ma` al-Nabi, `Ali al-Kourani]

-He feared the people would say he favored his cousin. [Tafseer al-`Ayyashi]

-The people were new to Islam so he feared they would say things about him. [al-Kafi]

-He feared the people would accuse him of lying. [Tafseer al-Meezan]

-Because Ghadeer was a strategic location where Muslims would gather then disperse to their lands. [The Thaqalayn Muslim Association]

-He chose a different location so that the matter of "Leadership"does not become lost among many other statements at `Arafat. [ghadir786.com]

-The people were tired from Hajj so he chose Ghadeer to give them a fresh start and distinctive attention. [ghadir786.com]

-Maybe because the people were busy with the rites of Hajj but later at Ghadeer they weren't occupied. [Ayatulla Muslim al-Dawuri]

-He feared they would reject faith and return to disbelief. [Tafseer al-Safi]

-He feared they would harm or kill him. [Tafseer Bayan al-Sa`adah lil-Janabidhi]

-He had already said it enough times that there was no point in saying it again. [Shia member on our forum]


WHY DIDN'T `ALI ASK FOR HIS RIGHT OF IMAMAH?


-Because Imamah is an obligatory duty like Salat, you have to go to it yourself and it won't come to you on its own, so it was the people's duty to go to `Ali and give it to him. [Al-Radi, Khasa'is al-A'immah]
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 03:26:12 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 07:01:25 PM »
You'll love this thread just give it some time and you'll see the bigger picture InshaAllah,

Now let me add more excuses,

-People thought that Fadak was public property for 25 years, if he gives it to his children they'll accuse him of corruption. [rafed.net]

-He was going to spend its money on the poor and needy in any case so it makes no difference, thus he never returned it. [rafed.net]

Now you mr.Shi`ee claimed that I missed out on the biggest reason, to counter this I will show the Fatwa of four of the biggest and most popular Shia websites online, answering this same question, and they did not state the reason you gave (which you claim is most important) they only listed the excuses I gave.

1-
http://www.aqaed.com/faq/1512/

2-
http://www.al-shia.org/html/ara/ahl/index.php?mod=sire&id=101

3-
http://www.rafed.net/research/%D8%A3%D8%B3%D8%A6%D9%84%D8%A9-%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF%D9%88%D8%AF/292-%D9%81%D8%AF%D9%83/1815-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%91-%D8%B9-%D8%B9%D9%86%D8%AF%D9%85%D8%A7-%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%81%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B0%D8%A7-%D9%84%D9%85-%D9%8A%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%AC%D8%B9-%D9%81%D8%AF%D9%83-%D8%9F

4-
http://www.holynajaf.net/arb/html/ahlulbait/sire/ali/yastarje.html
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 10:26:03 PM by Hadrami »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 07:13:17 PM »
More excuses,

-What shall I do: Fadak, or no Fadak, while tomorrow this body is to go into the grave in whose darkness its traces will be destroyed and (even) news of it will disappear? (Meaning, he will die anyway so why bother returning it) [Nahj-ul-Balagha]

-He did not return Fadak, because he did not wish that people think that he asked for the Khilafah for the sake of material gain. [Ayatulla al-Tabrizi]
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 10:26:19 PM by Hadrami »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 09:46:23 PM »
More excuses, (most of these posts can be avoided if I had the ability to edit my own first post at this point)

-He did not care for the materialistic matters nor the decorations of the worldly life. Since he is the owner, he can drop his right and no one can question him. [yahosein.net member]

-It is not known whether he took it back and gave the family of Fatimah its produce or kept it the way it was because of the circumstances at the time. [Ayatulla Rouhani, istefta.com]

-He did return it and all else is ignorance. He was the leader so all the produce that goes into Bayt-ul-Maal is under his control. [Yasir al-Habeeb, video lecture]

-He did not return Fadak nor did he change the rulings (of those before him) because he even in his position of Khalifah was in a state of extreme Taqiyyah. [Sayyid al-Murtada, al-Shafi]

-Maybe he and his family decided to make it a Waqf, they used to spend its produce on the Muslims. [Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr, Fadak fil-Tareekh]

-Previous Khulafa' placed the land in possession of evil people from bani Umayyah, had he restored it by force these people would have reacted with open opposition, and spread rumours, Fitnah and hatred against the Imam. [shiapen.com]

-He was busy with priorities, such as overcoming social poverty, unemployment, alienation, criminality, nepotism... Fadak was a personal matter of low priority to him as a leader. [shiapen.com]

-He promised Rasul-Allah (saw) to not kill his opponents, returning it by force would have led to him killing Marwan. [shiapen.com]

-Fear that people would apostate if he were to take Fadak back. Just as fear of disputes and return to Jahiliyya prevented him from claiming his right of Khilafat back, the same applied to the Fadak dispute. [shiapen.com]

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hadrami

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 12:15:12 PM »
WHY MAHDI DISSAPEAR

- he was afraid
- to be similar like isa, khidr as etc
- there is not enough true companions
- people need him (not sure what this means though)
- to test true believers

HughSlaman

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 12:23:18 PM »

Well yes, he used the issue of the honor of the first three Caliphs because this was something well-known to all Muslims living at that early time. Why would he need to use this if he had been appointed as the Imam? In the latter case, everyone would have known about this, since a public appointment such as this rapidly becomes common knowledge. Obviously, such a public appointment was not common knowledge at all, and this shows it never happened.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 10:26:53 PM by Hadrami »

Husayn

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 01:18:10 PM »
Assalamu Alaikum,

The issue of Fadak is infact a non-issue. It was a minor fiqhi dispute between Fatima (RA) and Abu Bakr (RA), that was settled and ended during their lifetimes.

Fatima (RA) became upset at Abu Bakr (RA) because he ruled against her - but she eventually accepted that he was in the right and the matter was resolved.

It wasn't until hundreds of years later that some Shi'i groups in Iraq made Fadak out to be a major issue - and they did this to fit in with their fairy-tale of "oppression of Ahlul-Bayt".

Allah (SWT) is well aware that it is infact the Shi'is that oppressed Ahlul Bayt - both by killing them and fabricating lies against them.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Ebn Hussein

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 05:01:20 PM »
Assalamu Alaikum,

The issue of Fadak is infact a non-issue. It was a minor fiqhi dispute between Fatima (RA) and Abu Bakr (RA), that was settled and ended during their lifetimes.

Fatima (RA) became upset at Abu Bakr (RA) because he ruled against her - but she eventually accepted that he was in the right and the matter was resolved.

It wasn't until hundreds of years later that some Shi'i groups in Iraq made Fadak out to be a major issue - and they did this to fit in with their fairy-tale of "oppression of Ahlul-Bayt".

Allah (SWT) is well aware that it is infact the Shi'is that oppressed Ahlul Bayt - both by killing them and fabricating lies against them.

tislam akhi, beautifully put, barakallahu bik.


الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Muhammad Habib

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 11:50:21 PM »
One more Excuse from shia's 3rd so called Shaheed NoorUllah tustri
" Due to Fadak incident, Sayyida Fatima r.a left this world and she was angry . Ali ra didn't want to reduce the anger of Fatima by taking Fadak back.
(Majalis ul Momineen )
2. Ali ra never took Fadak back by sword because this family never use sword for their personal benefits. 

Muhammad Habib

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 11:57:45 PM »
Imam Mehdi disappeared because
Allah wants to come all souls of Momineen from Munafiqeen's progeny . When 12th imam appeared in this world he will never forgive any Munkir.
(Majalis-ul-Momineen: Noor Ullah Tustri )

Hani

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2014, 02:26:48 AM »
Added the question:



WHY DID THE PROPHET (saw) NOT MENTION `ALI'S IMAMAH AT THE FAREWELL HAJJ?


Participation is fun, trust me and participate, just with a quick browse I found like six excuses.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Taha

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2014, 05:18:46 AM »
WHY DID THE PROPHET (saw) NOT MENTION `ALI'S IMAMAH AT THE FAREWELL HAJJ?


  • He did, he just didn't call it Imamah.  He said man kuntu mawlahu fa `Ali mawlahu.  Mawla = Imam.
  • He was in taqiyyah because he knew the majority wouldn't accept it and would thus leave Islam.
  • He had already said it enough times that there was no point in saying it again.
Okay, these are just random thoughts I had in my head.  I have no idea, honestly.  I hope to see what the real excuses are.

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 178
  • +1/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2014, 03:28:27 PM »

  • He did, he just didn't call it Imamah.  He said man kuntu mawlahu fa `Ali mawlahu.  Mawla = Imam.

Salam Alaikum,

He said "man kuntu Mawla..." on the way to Madina in Ghadir several weeks after the farewell Hajj.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

Hani

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2014, 06:34:06 PM »
WHY DID THE PROPHET (saw) NOT MENTION `ALI'S IMAMAH AT THE FAREWELL HAJJ?


  • He did, he just didn't call it Imamah.  He said man kuntu mawlahu fa `Ali mawlahu.  Mawla = Imam.
  • He was in taqiyyah because he knew the majority wouldn't accept it and would thus leave Islam.
  • He had already said it enough times that there was no point in saying it again.
Okay, these are just random thoughts I had in my head.  I have no idea, honestly.  I hope to see what the real excuses are.


Bro, I wrote them in the opening post, check it out it's at the bottom.


As for the three points, brother abu Muslim answered the first point.


The second point makes no sense, it is his Job to say the truth and whoever believes believes, it's not logical for a prophet to hide the truth because he fears people will not accept it, it's unheard of in Allah's book.


Third point is incorrect, you said he was already scared to announce it as he feared people would not accept, why would he be scared if he already announced it so many times? Not a logical answer.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2014, 12:16:24 AM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,

This will be a big topic, and let me explain why.

Islam as we know it is a religion of strong evidence and clear proofs.

Let's talk about Tashayyu` though...

As you all know the Shia religious beliefs usually make no sense and are in complete contradiction to Qur'an, Sunnah and established historical facts.

When our early scholars bombarded them with strong evidence, leaders of the Imamiyyah resorted to fabricating excuses in their ancient books, and for each attack they fabricated a non-convincing excuse and sometimes they are forced to make up other excuses to cover up the first excuse.

This dear brothers is why the topic will be big, because Tashayyu` is a reactionary religion full of excuses. Their beliefs are so contradictory and even their excuses come out as contradictory.

What we're going to do, is that I'll list a bunch of titles, each title is problematic for Imami faith, under each title I'll list as many excuses as I can gather (listing the sources if possible) in a very simple brief way.

I want you guys to contribute and I shall update this post with all your contributions if they are correct and follow the format below.

WHY DID `ALI NOT RETURN FADAK IN HIS REIGN AND DURING HIS LEADERSHIP?

-We Ahlul-Bayt do not take back anything which was taken away from us unjustly or through oppression. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-He hated to take back something that Allah has already punished its usurper and rewarded the one who was oppressed. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-If I were to take back Fadak and return it to Fatimah's children, my army would have turned against me because I changed `Umar's Sunnah and some would have rebelled. [al-Kafi]

-People thought that Fadak was public property for 25 years, if he gives it to his children they'll accuse him of corruption. [rafed.net]

-He was going to spend its money on the poor and needy in any case so it makes no difference, thus he never returned it. [rafed.net]

-What shall I do: Fadak, or no Fadak, while tomorrow this body is to go into the grave in whose darkness its traces will be destroyed and (even) news of it will disappear? (Meaning, he will die anyway so why bother returning it) [Nahj-ul-Balagha]

-He did not return Fadak, because he did not wish that people think that he asked for the Khilafah for the sake of material gain. [Ayatulla al-Tabrizi]

-He did not care for the materialistic matters nor the decorations of the worldly life. Since he is the owner, he can drop his right and no one can question him. [yahosein.net member]

-It is not known whether he took it back and gave the family of Fatimah its produce or kept it the way it was because of the circumstances at the time. [Ayatulla Rouhani, istefta.com]

-He did return it and all else is ignorance. He was the leader so all the produce that goes into Bayt-ul-Maal is under his control. [Yasir al-Habeeb, video lecture]

-He did not return Fadak nor did he change the rulings (of those before him) because he even in his position of Khalifah was in a state of extreme Taqiyyah. [Sayyid al-Murtada, al-Shafi]

-Maybe he and his family decided to make it a Waqf, they used to spend its produce on the Muslims. [Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr, Fadak fil-Tareekh]

-Previous Khulafa' placed the land in possession of evil people from bani Umayyah, had he restored it by force these people would have reacted with open opposition, and spread rumours, Fitnah and hatred against the Imam. [shiapen.com]

-He was busy with priorities, such as overcoming social poverty, unemployment, alienation, criminality, nepotism... Fadak was a personal matter of low priority to him as a leader. [shiapen.com]

-He promised Rasul-Allah (saw) to not kill his opponents, returning it by force would have led to him killing Marwan. [shiapen.com]

-Fear that people would apostate if he were to take Fadak back. Just as fear of disputes and return to Jahiliyya prevented him from claiming his right of Khilafat back, the same applied to the Fadak dispute. [shiapen.com]

-The Caliph offered it to Musa bin Ja`far, but he said he would not accept it from him unless he gave him the entire piece of land, he claimed its borders (Fafak's) stretches from Africa to Yemen to Samarqand. [al-Kafi & Ja`far al-Subhani in al-Adwa']

-Due to the Fadak incident, Fatimah left this world in anger. He didn't want to reduce the anger of Fatimah by taking Fadak back. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

-He never took Fadak back by sword because this family never use sword for their personal benefits. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THE 12th IMAM'S GHAYBAH?

-He feared he would be killed by the Khalifah's soldiers. [Ghaybat al-Tusi]

-He did not wish to give Bay`ah to the oppressors as his fathers did. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-To follow the Sunnah of previous prophets, such as `Isa (as) and Khadir (as). [Kamal-ul-Deen]

-He does not have companions with good qualities equal to the amount of the people of Badr [al-Mufid, Rasa’il al-Ghaybah].

-As a test from God, those who believe in Ghaybah are true believers. [Bihar-ul-Anwar]

-Allah deprived us of him because of our corruption. [Ghaybat-ul-Tusi]

-For a wisdom only Allah knows. [Center of Belief Research, aqaed.com & Ghaybat-ul-Tusi]

-Until all the believers who are born from the hypocrites have come into existence, then after it he shall appear and he won't forgive any denier. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

WHY DID `ALI MARRY-OFF HIS DAUGHTER TO `UMAR?

-It wasn't his daughter, he told a Jewish Jinn female to marry `Umar in shape of his daughter. [Kashani, al-Wafi]

-`Umar threatened to accuse him of theft, so he had to marry her off to the Kafir to avoid physical harm. [al-Kafi]

-al-Zubayr bin Bakkar fabricated this story, no marriage took place. [al-Masa'il al-Sarawiyyah, al-Mufid]

-`Umar was not a Kafir, he was apparently Muslim so the marriage is legitimate and no one can blame `Ali. [al-Muhaqqiq al-Sha`rani, al-Wafi]

-There was a confusion, this was Umm Kulthoum the daughter of Abu Bakr, not `Ali. [shiachat.com]

-Many narrations show that they were enemies, so he can't have married her to him. [shiachat.com]

-The narration in the Shia books was said as Taqiyyah. [alqatrah.net, Yasir al-Habib]

-`Umar raped her without her guardian's consent, it was al-`Abbas who was responsible for this. [alqatrah.net]



WHY DID THE PROPHET (saw) NOT MENTION `ALI'S IMAMAH AT THE FAREWELL HAJJ?


-He wanted to announce it in Madinah as he would have the support of the Ansar. [Sira` Quraysh ma` al-Nabi, `Ali al-Kourani]

-He feared the people would say he favored his cousin. [Tafseer al-`Ayyashi]

-The people were new to Islam so he feared they would say things about him. [al-Kafi]

-He feared the people would accuse him of lying. [Tafseer al-Meezan]

-Because Ghadeer was a strategic location where Muslims would gather then disperse to their lands. [The Thaqalayn Muslim Association]

-He chose a different location so that the matter of "Leadership"does not become lost among many other statements at `Arafat. [ghadir786.com]

-The people were tired from Hajj so he chose Ghadeer to give them a fresh start and distinctive attention. [ghadir786.com]

-Maybe because the people were busy with the rites of Hajj but later at Ghadeer they weren't occupied. [Ayatulla Muslim al-Dawuri]

-He feared they would reject faith and return to disbelief. [Tafseer al-Safi]

-He feared they would harm or kill him. [Tafseer Bayan al-Sa`adah lil-Janabidhi]

-He had already said it enough times that there was no point in saying it again. [Shia member on our forum]

Salaam brother. You have thrown a lot questions there. Why not take it one step at a time. Do you just ask questions or do you answer as well???

Hani

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2014, 12:19:24 AM »

Salaam brother. You have thrown a lot questions there. Why not take it one step at a time. Do you just ask questions or do you answer as well???


Salam,


We know the answers, we're showing the contradictory borderline silly excuses, that is all. We're pretty much copying and pasting Shia excuses from their websites and books and there's a LOT of excuses we missed I'm sure.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2014, 12:21:51 AM »

Salaam brother. You have thrown a lot questions there. Why not take it one step at a time. Do you just ask questions or do you answer as well???


Salam,


We know the answers, we're showing the contradictory borderline silly excuses, that is all. We're pretty much copying and pasting Shia excuses from their websites and books and there's a LOT of excuses we missed I'm sure.

So tell me brother, what is your aim and what are you trying to prove or justify here???

Hani

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2014, 12:46:56 AM »

So tell me brother, what is your aim and what are you trying to prove or justify here???


Can't you see what I'm trying to achieve, I thought Shia were very intelligent, surely you can see through our elaborate plan here?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2014, 12:50:10 AM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,

This will be a big topic, and let me explain why.

Islam as we know it is a religion of strong evidence and clear proofs.

Let's talk about Tashayyu` though...

As you all know the Shia religious beliefs usually make no sense and are in complete contradiction to Qur'an, Sunnah and established historical facts.

When our early scholars bombarded them with strong evidence, leaders of the Imamiyyah resorted to fabricating excuses in their ancient books, and for each attack they fabricated a non-convincing excuse and sometimes they are forced to make up other excuses to cover up the first excuse.

This dear brothers is why the topic will be big, because Tashayyu` is a reactionary religion full of excuses. Their beliefs are so contradictory and even their excuses come out as contradictory.

What we're going to do, is that I'll list a bunch of titles, each title is problematic for Imami faith, under each title I'll list as many excuses as I can gather (listing the sources if possible) in a very simple brief way.

I want you guys to contribute and I shall update this post with all your contributions if they are correct and follow the format below.

WHY DID `ALI NOT RETURN FADAK IN HIS REIGN AND DURING HIS LEADERSHIP?

-We Ahlul-Bayt do not take back anything which was taken away from us unjustly or through oppression. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-He hated to take back something that Allah has already punished its usurper and rewarded the one who was oppressed. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-If I were to take back Fadak and return it to Fatimah's children, my army would have turned against me because I changed `Umar's Sunnah and some would have rebelled. [al-Kafi]

-People thought that Fadak was public property for 25 years, if he gives it to his children they'll accuse him of corruption. [rafed.net]

-He was going to spend its money on the poor and needy in any case so it makes no difference, thus he never returned it. [rafed.net]

-What shall I do: Fadak, or no Fadak, while tomorrow this body is to go into the grave in whose darkness its traces will be destroyed and (even) news of it will disappear? (Meaning, he will die anyway so why bother returning it) [Nahj-ul-Balagha]

-He did not return Fadak, because he did not wish that people think that he asked for the Khilafah for the sake of material gain. [Ayatulla al-Tabrizi]

-He did not care for the materialistic matters nor the decorations of the worldly life. Since he is the owner, he can drop his right and no one can question him. [yahosein.net member]

-It is not known whether he took it back and gave the family of Fatimah its produce or kept it the way it was because of the circumstances at the time. [Ayatulla Rouhani, istefta.com]

-He did return it and all else is ignorance. He was the leader so all the produce that goes into Bayt-ul-Maal is under his control. [Yasir al-Habeeb, video lecture]

-He did not return Fadak nor did he change the rulings (of those before him) because he even in his position of Khalifah was in a state of extreme Taqiyyah. [Sayyid al-Murtada, al-Shafi]

-Maybe he and his family decided to make it a Waqf, they used to spend its produce on the Muslims. [Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr, Fadak fil-Tareekh]

-Previous Khulafa' placed the land in possession of evil people from bani Umayyah, had he restored it by force these people would have reacted with open opposition, and spread rumours, Fitnah and hatred against the Imam. [shiapen.com]

-He was busy with priorities, such as overcoming social poverty, unemployment, alienation, criminality, nepotism... Fadak was a personal matter of low priority to him as a leader. [shiapen.com]

-He promised Rasul-Allah (saw) to not kill his opponents, returning it by force would have led to him killing Marwan. [shiapen.com]

-Fear that people would apostate if he were to take Fadak back. Just as fear of disputes and return to Jahiliyya prevented him from claiming his right of Khilafat back, the same applied to the Fadak dispute. [shiapen.com]

-The Caliph offered it to Musa bin Ja`far, but he said he would not accept it from him unless he gave him the entire piece of land, he claimed its borders (Fafak's) stretches from Africa to Yemen to Samarqand. [al-Kafi & Ja`far al-Subhani in al-Adwa']

-Due to the Fadak incident, Fatimah left this world in anger. He didn't want to reduce the anger of Fatimah by taking Fadak back. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

-He never took Fadak back by sword because this family never use sword for their personal benefits. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THE 12th IMAM'S GHAYBAH?

-He feared he would be killed by the Khalifah's soldiers. [Ghaybat al-Tusi]

-He did not wish to give Bay`ah to the oppressors as his fathers did. [`Ilal al-Shara'i`]

-To follow the Sunnah of previous prophets, such as `Isa (as) and Khadir (as). [Kamal-ul-Deen]

-He does not have companions with good qualities equal to the amount of the people of Badr [al-Mufid, Rasa’il al-Ghaybah].

-As a test from God, those who believe in Ghaybah are true believers. [Bihar-ul-Anwar]

-Allah deprived us of him because of our corruption. [Ghaybat-ul-Tusi]

-For a wisdom only Allah knows. [Center of Belief Research, aqaed.com & Ghaybat-ul-Tusi]

-Until all the believers who are born from the hypocrites have come into existence, then after it he shall appear and he won't forgive any denier. [Noorullah al-Tusturi, Majalis al-Mu'mineen]

WHY DID `ALI MARRY-OFF HIS DAUGHTER TO `UMAR?

-It wasn't his daughter, he told a Jewish Jinn female to marry `Umar in shape of his daughter. [Kashani, al-Wafi]

-`Umar threatened to accuse him of theft, so he had to marry her off to the Kafir to avoid physical harm. [al-Kafi]

-al-Zubayr bin Bakkar fabricated this story, no marriage took place. [al-Masa'il al-Sarawiyyah, al-Mufid]

-`Umar was not a Kafir, he was apparently Muslim so the marriage is legitimate and no one can blame `Ali. [al-Muhaqqiq al-Sha`rani, al-Wafi]

-There was a confusion, this was Umm Kulthoum the daughter of Abu Bakr, not `Ali. [shiachat.com]

-Many narrations show that they were enemies, so he can't have married her to him. [shiachat.com]

-The narration in the Shia books was said as Taqiyyah. [alqatrah.net, Yasir al-Habib]

-`Umar raped her without her guardian's consent, it was al-`Abbas who was responsible for this. [alqatrah.net]



WHY DID THE PROPHET (saw) NOT MENTION `ALI'S IMAMAH AT THE FAREWELL HAJJ?


-He wanted to announce it in Madinah as he would have the support of the Ansar. [Sira` Quraysh ma` al-Nabi, `Ali al-Kourani]

-He feared the people would say he favored his cousin. [Tafseer al-`Ayyashi]

-The people were new to Islam so he feared they would say things about him. [al-Kafi]

-He feared the people would accuse him of lying. [Tafseer al-Meezan]

-Because Ghadeer was a strategic location where Muslims would gather then disperse to their lands. [The Thaqalayn Muslim Association]

-He chose a different location so that the matter of "Leadership"does not become lost among many other statements at `Arafat. [ghadir786.com]

-The people were tired from Hajj so he chose Ghadeer to give them a fresh start and distinctive attention. [ghadir786.com]

-Maybe because the people were busy with the rites of Hajj but later at Ghadeer they weren't occupied. [Ayatulla Muslim al-Dawuri]

-He feared they would reject faith and return to disbelief. [Tafseer al-Safi]

-He feared they would harm or kill him. [Tafseer Bayan al-Sa`adah lil-Janabidhi]

-He had already said it enough times that there was no point in saying it again. [Shia member on our forum]

Salaam brother.
Your first question; Why did Ali (ra) not return fadak during his reign and in his leadership???
What is the meaning and purpose of your question??? Do you mean, when Ali (as) came in to power why didn't he use his authority and strength to take back fadak??? To take back what belonged to him???

Ameen

Re: A religion of excuses and reactions
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2014, 12:57:58 AM »

So tell me brother, what is your aim and what are you trying to prove or justify here???


Can't you see what I'm trying to achieve, I thought Shia were very intelligent, surely you can see through our elaborate plan here?

You thought Shia were very intelligent. Thank you very much for the compliment. So lets make it clear, what are you trying to achieve here??? Shiaism is false??? And if you do achieve it, what is your plan next??? Invite people towards Sunnism??? So what is your elaborate plan here???

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
1 Replies
984 Views
Last post July 20, 2015, 01:32:26 PM
by MuslimK
4 Replies
1354 Views
Last post February 24, 2016, 03:47:42 PM
by demmzy15
29 Replies
1558 Views
Last post July 13, 2016, 06:57:50 PM
by ShiaMan
15 Replies
1177 Views
Last post September 22, 2016, 10:02:09 PM
by أبو ماريا المرزم