The "school" of Ahlul Bayt

[Husayn]

You always hear this term - school (madhhab) of Ahlul Bayt.

Ahlul Bayt presumably being the 12 Imams.

Now, a madhhab is basically a combination of methods used to derive Sunnah - formulated by certain scholars (in the Sunni sense) and propogated/expanded upon by the students of these Imams.

It is in essence a very fallible method used to derive Sunnah by referring to Qur'an, Ahadith, Seerah, Qiyas, Ijtihad e.t.c.

So my question is - why would an infallible divinely selected being need to develop a madhhab? Isn't the knowledge of the 12 Imams (as Twelvers believe) directly passed on from the Prophet (saws)?

I suspect that Twelvers came up with this "madhhab of Ahlul Bayt" phrase to fit in more with Sunnis, and to distract from the glaring differences in 'aqeedah between Ahlul Sunnah and their sect.

It is basically a useless phrase.

[Sheikh]

Also, the 12ers have as many Madhahib as they have maraji. They all have different methodologies and conclusions. Not to mention, many of their maraji have differences in aqeedah and not just fiqh. At least our four madhahib have the same aqeedah with minor differences in fiqh. Their thirty-plus "madhahib" have differences in both aqeedah and fiqh.

[MuslimAnswers]

Also, the 12ers have as many Madhahib as they have maraji. They all have different methodologies and conclusions. Not to mention, many of their maraji have differences in aqeedah and not just fiqh. At least our four madhahib have the same aqeedah with minor differences in fiqh. Their thirty-plus "madhahib" have differences in both aqeedah and fiqh.

That is one issue many will find amusing: Infallibility should lead if anything to prohibition of Taqlid - since Taqlid is only done in those matters where there is need for Ijtihaad due to the intrinsically probabilistic nature of either the texts or the meanings behind the texts.

This is one of the many points where the Twelver religion trips over itself: Even if we accept that the Imams did have Prophet-like Infallibility, that is irrelevant to the discussion, since there is still a need for Twelver Usool and Twelver Ijtihaad, and the goals of these two is the projection of rulings based on some amount of uncertainty, not merely passing along indubitable rulings as we would transmit the Rasm of the Qur'an.

[Husayn]

Further to my point - saying that the 12 Imams have a maddhab is exactly the same as saying that Rasulullah (saws) has a maddhab.

The 12 Imams are divinely appointed and inspired, and the knowledge of the entire Sunnah is implanted into their brains the second they are born (or maybe even when they were first created before all creation or whatever).

It is nonsensical to claim they have a maddhab.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

To make it worse, the first contributions to usul al fiqh by the rafidha were by al mufid & al murtada who came way after the era of the Imams.

[Rationalist]

Just look at their main books of hadith.
For Al Kafi they only accept 1/3 of hadith.
Man la yahduruhu al-Faqih    has no chains
Tahdhib al-Ahkam which is a commentary of al-Muqni by Shaykh Mufid
Al-Istibsar which is a summary of al Tahdhib al Akham

The rest of the books reuse the same hadith. So in reality apart from al Kafi did the 12er Shia scholars really go around collecting hadith?

[Rationalist]

I suspect that Twelvers came up with this "madhhab of Ahlul Bayt" phrase to fit in more with Sunnis, and to distract from the glaring differences in 'aqeedah between Ahlul Sunnah and their sect.

It is basically a useless phrase.

The 12er madhab went through centuries of evolution. Then it became crystallized. 
A lot of the 12er Shia fiqh coincides  with fiqh attributed to Abdullah bin Abbas' fiqh or the fiqh also known as the Meccan fiqh.
The theology is the mix of the Mutazilla along with 12er Shia ideas of imamate.   

[MuslimAnswers]

I suspect that Twelvers came up with this "madhhab of Ahlul Bayt" phrase to fit in more with Sunnis, and to distract from the glaring differences in 'aqeedah between Ahlul Sunnah and their sect.

It is basically a useless phrase.

The 12er madhab went through centuries of evolution. Then it became crystallized. 
A lot of the 12er Shia fiqh coincides  with fiqh attributed to Abdullah bin Abbas' fiqh or the fiqh also known as the Meccan fiqh.
The theology is the mix of the Mutazilla along with 12er Shia ideas of imamate.   

The crucial thing is the theological presuppositions: The contradictions between the theory and practice in how to arrive at rulings is one thing.

Even more fundamental than that though, is that we traditional Sunnis will flatly refuse the 'condition' that Allah must show Lutf to the creatures, this obligating the existence of the Infallible Imam at any cost. We could say this is "possible" at an 'Aqli level, but then again the evidence of the Quran and mass-transmitted human history does not favor the Twelver view. This is also why I believe it is extremely difficult to have a 'debate' with Twelvers: We radically disagree  on how reality is constituted and what is the basis of God-human relationships and how evidence is to be treated in this regard, since in their view the 'Imamah' doctrine has to be maintained at all costs, even if the Rasm and the Ma'na of otherwise agreed-upon texts has to be modified, rejected, rehabilitated, etc.

[MuslimAnswers]

Further to my point - saying that the 12 Imams have a maddhab is exactly the same as saying that Rasulullah (saws) has a maddhab.

The 12 Imams are divinely appointed and inspired, and the knowledge of the entire Sunnah is implanted into their brains the second they are born (or maybe even when they were first created before all creation or whatever).

It is nonsensical to claim they have a maddhab.

In a sense the Twelvers do hope that the double-speak will bring some people into their sect. Of course, it probably does have that effect, since Madhhab can be used for referring to different ideologies/religions but also it could refer to different methods within a single ideology - unless if the person talked to knows these technical distinctions, plus some details of the Twelver-Sunni split on fundamentals, he will not know in which sense it should be used.

[Rationalist]

This is also why I believe it is extremely difficult to have a 'debate' with Twelvers: We radically disagree  on how reality is constituted and what is the basis of God-human relationships and how evidence is to be treated in this regard, since in their view the 'Imamah' doctrine has to be maintained at all costs, even if the Rasm and the Ma'na of otherwise agreed-upon texts has to be modified, rejected, rehabilitated, etc.

Its actually not difficult to debate against the 12ers. The 12ers are like jellyfish who have no backbones. They debate by attacking the sahaba, so one needs to study their hadith books, and throw it back to them.
We need to avoid topics such as Abi Bakr vs Ali, and instead focus on real issues such as Imamate. To prove imamte one needs to quote the 12er SHia hadith, which sadly has its flaws. Just look at Shaykh Mufid the one who pioneered rationality in the 12er Shia sect . In his book Kitab al Irshad he says the Shias and Nawasib even exist within sea creatures.

[Sheikh]

^ I agree 100%. Debating Abu Bakr vs Ali is stupid, because even if hypothetically Ali was the better man, that doesn't prove anything about their sect. It's a red herring.

[MuslimAnswers]

^ I agree 100%. Debating Abu Bakr vs Ali is stupid, because even if hypothetically Ali was the better man, that doesn't prove anything about their sect. It's a red herring.

The Sunni 'Aqeedah texts do mention the difference of opinion about whether 'being the best person' is actually a condition for Leadership, so our view is much broader than that of the opponent even in abstract. But yes there should be a veering of the argument towards the premise (among many others) that the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was never an Imam in the 12er sense of the term, so it is pointless to say that he (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) could ever give a position he did not possess to someone else.

[Hani]

You always hear this term - school (madhhab) of Ahlul Bayt.

Ahlul Bayt presumably being the 12 Imams.

Now, a madhhab is basically a combination of methods used to derive Sunnah - formulated by certain scholars (in the Sunni sense) and propogated/expanded upon by the students of these Imams.

It is in essence a very fallible method used to derive Sunnah by referring to Qur'an, Ahadith, Seerah, Qiyas, Ijtihad e.t.c.

So my question is - why would an infallible divinely selected being need to develop a madhhab? Isn't the knowledge of the 12 Imams (as Twelvers believe) directly passed on from the Prophet (saws)?

I suspect that Twelvers came up with this "madhhab of Ahlul Bayt" phrase to fit in more with Sunnis, and to distract from the glaring differences in 'aqeedah between Ahlul Sunnah and their sect.

It is basically a useless phrase.

Salam,

The word "Madhab" is a trick to convert Muslims, it is actually the Religion of Ahlul-Bayt. A Madhab is exactly as you described, their Imam is infallible and he is in direct contact with God, it's not a "Madhab".