Are Shias Really Grateful to Imam Hussain (ra) for Saving Islam?

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Iceman

I ask again:

Where is the proof from the Quran that khalid or his men even laid a finger on malik?

You cannot answer.

I used your own silly methodology on you & you could not reply.

Destroyed by your own stupidity.

[iceman]

Iceman

I ask again:

Where is the proof from the Quran that khalid or his men even laid a finger on malik?

You cannot answer.

I used your own silly methodology on you & you could not reply.

Destroyed by your own stupidity.

Qur'an was absolutely and completely revealed during the Prophet's s.a.w time and you want evidence from the Quran of incidents and events that took place after it was revealed.  😊 Surprised at your aql. I don't know what you're trying to prove but what a ridiculous example. Now here's mine again.

Malik ibn Nuwayrah was accused of apostasy because he refused to give Zakah along with his tribe. What is the Islamic ruling concerning this. I'm asking about the Islamic ruling and not the rulers ruling. Don't continue to  dance around it. Either answer or show some shame and decency by slipping away.

[muslim720]

How did Malik violate And where does it say that you are deemed Wajib Ul Qatal. If you violate the Islamic injunction of Zakah then you are a definite subject to capital punishment.

And the gents can't come up with one single indication from the Qur'an to back this up.

Therefore, according to Conman, Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (ra) - through these statements found in Al-Kafi - was lying upon the Qur'an.

1.  "The adulterer will be stoned and the one who refuses to pay the Zakah will get beheaded".

2.  "Who refuses to pay even a single ounce of the Zakah is not a believer nor a Muslim and this is the statement of Him (Allah), may He be glorified and exalted".

Stand by Malik at the cost of declaring your own "infallible Imam" to be a liar.  Or, stand by the truth without accusing your "infallible Imam" of lying.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Qur'an was absolutely and completely revealed during the Prophet's s.a.w time and you want evidence from the Quran of incidents and events that took place after it was revealed.  😊 Surprised at your aql. I don't know what you're trying to prove but what a ridiculous example. Now here's mine again.

Malik ibn Nuwayrah was accused of apostasy because he refused to give Zakah along with his tribe. What is the Islamic ruling concerning this. I'm asking about the Islamic ruling and not the rulers ruling. Don't continue to  dance around it. Either answer or show some shame and decency by slipping away.

You wanted proof from the Quran only. I asked for the same thing.

So now you’re saying we need to look outside of the Quran?
😂😂😂😃😃😃

[iceman]

You wanted proof from the Quran only. I asked for the same thing.

So now you’re saying we need to look outside of the Quran?
😂😂😂😃😃😃

"You wanted proof from the Quran only. I asked for the same thing"

Where did I say that. Now you've moved on from DANCING AROUND to PLAYING AROUND. You're asking me to prove an incident from the Qur'an that took place after the Messenger's s.a.w death. I'm asking you to prove from the Qur'an that if you don't pay or give Zakah then you are Wajib Ul Qatal, subject to capital punishment.

"So now you’re saying we need to look outside of the Quran"

Where did I say that? When it comes to Shia Imamah, which by the way you haven't bothered to study so that's the reason why you're not aware of it, you want to stay inside the Qur'an,

but when it comes to capital punishment concerning not paying or giving Zakah then you want to just float outside the Qur'an. Put down some principles and lay down standards if you have any that is.

[iceman]

You are going way off thread and subject. We are only discussing two things here and that is the martyrdom of Hussain and how this saved Islam and the killing of Malik bin Nuwayrah and why Shias are silent in condemning Malik.

Hussain refused to give allegiance to Yazeed bin Muawiyah and he was determined to get Hussain's allegiance. WHY I've questioned you this but you gents seem to be either hesitant or afraid to get involved in anything I put forward. I wonder why.

Why was Yazeed so determined to get Hussain to swear allegiance and why did Hussain absolutely and totally refuse to give allegiance.

What is the exact Ahle Sunah view on the killing of Malik. Did Malik become apostate along with his tribe. If yes then what is the ISLAMIC RULING for an apostate. What does the Qur'an say.

Why was there difference in the armed convoy under Khalid’s command, some witnessed and believed that Malik and his tribe were still Muslims and the reports of them becoming apostate weren't true. Others differed.

Why was the first Caliph told that they were Muslims and Khalid acted hastily and should be held accountable for the unlawful killing. According to this did the Caliph summon Khalid and interrogate him over this.

Did the Caliph reach the decision that Khalid committed a grave error and was blood money (Qisas) given to Malik's brother (Mutammim).

THIS IS WHAT YOU GENTS NEED TO DISCUSS BUT ARE EITHER TOO HESITANT OR AFRAID. WHAT'S THE MATTER? NOT ACADEMIC ENOUGH, IS THAT THE EXCUSE. OR DO YOU HAVE A BETTER ONE THIS TIME AROUND.

[iceman]

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path. لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ (There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear.

But when it comes to apostasy and the reasons and accusations of apostasy that have been put forward, when asked about proof of indication from the same source (Qur'an) then the gents start jumping up and down.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Iceman
Ooh did I touch a nerve?😂😂😂😂
You seem angry😁😁😁

Anyway, zakat is mentioned in the Quran. Not every detail of how it is collected is mentioned in the Quran. Just like not detail is mentioned in the Quran like khalid laying a finger on malik.
Ain’t that right?😂😂😁😂

Its fun trolling a troll but showing the troll how its done properly😉

[iceman]

Iceman
Ooh did I touch a nerve?😂😂😂😂
You seem angry😁😁😁

Anyway, zakat is mentioned in the Quran. Not every detail of how it is collected is mentioned in the Quran. Just like not detail is mentioned in the Quran like khalid laying a finger on malik.
Ain’t that right?😂😂😁😂

Its fun trolling a troll but showing the troll how its done properly😉

That's fine 😊 And if you don't pay or give Zakah then your life is taken from you. It's Allah's job to decide who's life should be taken and when and why, right? Where did Allah say that if you don't pay or give Zakah then the ruler/Caliph of the time has the right to take your life away from you. 😊

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

That's fine 😊 And if you don't pay or give Zakah then your life is taken from you. It's Allah's job to decide who's life should be taken and when and why, right? Where did Allah say that if you don't pay or give Zakah then the ruler/Caliph of the time has the right to take your life away from you. 😊

Did Allah say that to kill people who claimed divinity for Ali(ra). ?

[iceman]

Did Allah say that to kill people who claimed divinity for Ali(ra). ?

People as you can see there is still no answer. They're doing their best to save themselves by dodging the questions time and time again.

[muslim720]

Furoo Al-Kafi, Volume 3, H 5690, Ch. 1, h 3
A number of our people have narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn abu Nasr from Hammad ibn ‘Uthman
from Rifa‘ah ibn Musa who has said the following: “I heard abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, say, ‘No other obligation that Allah has made compulsory upon this nation is of more intensity than zakat.  In the matter of zakat most of them face their destruction.”

Maybe we can conclude that the Imam (ra) was lying because Conman can never lie!

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Iceman:

Whenever a proof is presented you say you want quote from Quran only or you ignore the shia hadeeth.

Lets have a bit of fun shall we.

You want proof regarding zakat collected by force.

My question is who collected zakat by force?

Prove to me AbuBakr or Khalid did this?

Proof please.

I will play you at your own game.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

People as you can see there is still no answer. They're doing their best to save themselves by dodging the questions time and time again.

The point is you are purposely acting like an idiot, to save yourself from humiliation. Because you know that if you answer the question that Ali(ra) killed people for claiming his divinity. Then what you claim would befall on Ali(ra as well. Hence you choose to dodge this point as much as possible.

I bet even in next post you will dodge it, because you are too scared to admit the truth.

[iceman]

Any indication from the Qur'an, still no answer. 😊 So we're just going by incidents and reports but nothing from Allah in the Qur'an about capital punishment. Gents it seems to me this is a lost argument and no case for you.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Any indication from the Qur'an, still no answer. 😊 So we're just going by incidents and reports but nothing from Allah in the Qur'an about capital punishment. Gents it seems to me this is a lost argument and no case for you.

Your argument is meaningless. You are trying to discredit the caliphate of Abubakr(as) for the action he took during his Caliphate. By your standard you even discredit the caliphate of Ali(as) since he killed people for claiming his divinity. So what’s the point?

[iceman]

Your argument is meaningless. You are trying to discredit the caliphate of Abubakr(as) for the action he took during his Caliphate. By your standard you even discredit the caliphate of Ali(as) since he killed people for claiming his divinity. So what’s the point?

I'm not discrediting anybody. You're accusing me of nonsense. And let me tell you what THE POINT is. Was that the ruler's decision based on governance or was it the ruler's decision based on Shariah? That's all I'm asking. So stop dancing around it.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

I'm not discrediting anybody. You're accusing me of nonsense. And let me tell you what THE POINT is. Was that the ruler's decision based on governance or was it the ruler's decision based on Shariah? That's all I'm asking. So stop dancing around it.

It’s you who is dancing and dodging.

Why are you scared to answer the question.

Ali killing people for claiming his divinity, was it proven from  Quran or not ?

Come on mate, don’t be sacred to answer. Or else don’t dare question other rulers when you can’t answer about the one whom you admire.

[iceman]

It’s you who is dancing and dodging.

Why are you scared to answer the question.

Ali killing people for claiming his divinity, was it proven from  Quran or not ?

Come on mate, don’t be sacred to answer. Or else don’t dare question other rulers when you can’t answer about the one whom you admire.

Again stop putting words in my mouth and accusing me of nonsense based on your assumption. RULER, be it any and nothing to do with favouritism or admire which is in your world, there decision of capital punishment was it based on governance on Shariah law? Come on, time to own up.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Any indication from the Qur'an, still no answer. 😊 So we're just going by incidents and reports but nothing from Allah in the Qur'an about capital punishment. Gents it seems to me this is a lost argument and no case for you.

Your allegations have no basis from the Quran. You admitted they are not in the Quran.
So how can you demand us to answer these non Quranic allegations with proofs from the Quran only?
How more absurd can your stupidity get?😂😂😂😂😂
You shot yourself in the foot. Go ahead please put yourself out of misery😂😂😂😂