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Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar

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Rationalist

Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« on: December 03, 2015, 02:44:19 AM »


The Sikhs believe their 10 Gurus attained a high level of spirituality and then they were appointed as Gurus, and thus were able to possess knowledge which no one else had. Likewise the 12ers believe a dozen Imams reached a high level of spirituality which no one can attain and than got access to knowledge unlike anyone.

 The Sikhs also have child Guru who became a Guru at young age,  but did not survive.



Whereas the 12ers have the same concept expect the child imam disappeared.

Another similarity is Sikhs are unable to prove that the concept of Guru existed in the past. Likewise the Twelvers too are unable to prove that the concept of Imamate before the 12 attained it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 02:47:38 AM by Rationalist »

Hani

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 12:24:41 PM »
whose guru nanak and do they ever take the turbans off?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Bolani Muslim

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 06:26:04 PM »
whose guru nanak and do they ever take the turbans off?
Guru Nanak is the founder of the Sikh religion. They're famous for their turbans and long beards, as they don't cut ANY hair or skin, like how Muslims are famous the the hijab and long beard w/o the mustache. They're allowed to take the turban off in their house.

Rationalist

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 01:06:41 AM »
whose guru nanak and do they ever take the turbans off?

The pillars of Sikhism started in the era of Guru Gobind Singh which is the last Guru of Sikhs. So this is when they were ordered to not cut their hair.

As for Guru Nanak there is no reliable information about him. The Sikhs rely on Janam Sakis but its authenticity is questionable.  There are a few Sufi saints who claimed he was one of them. Guru Nanak lived in Baghdad for 12 years and he received a cloak.

The wiki article talks about the reliablity of Janam Sakhis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janamsakhis
This link covers the detail about his cloak.
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/dbn/Mela%20Shri%20Chola%20Sahib.htm


« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 01:11:26 AM by Rationalist »

Rationalist

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 01:10:40 AM »
The reason I brought Sikhism into this because this religion can be used as analogy to refute the Dozeners. As you know, the 12ers believe 4 of the imams became imams at a very young age. To further prove their imamate they talk about how these imams had special power at a very young age. On the contrary, the 12ers rarely have much ahadith to convince us that the Imams which they number 9,10,11 and 12 are the most knowledgeable men of their time. So the question is why should one believe in a child imam, when special powers are  also attributed to a child Guru?

Rationalist

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 01:13:16 AM »
Trailer of the Guru Nanak movie.



The made him similar to how the 12ers animate their Imams.

Ibn Yahya

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2015, 11:58:53 AM »
The concept of Guru existed before Sikhism within Hindu cults. They are essentially God-men. Also like Twelver Shi'ism

Rationalist

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 05:53:47 PM »
Same with the imamate. Imams existed before too. However, the Guru Granth Sahib never references who the Gurus were of the past. Likewise the 12er Shia are unclear about Imamate in the past.

Rationalist

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 03:37:19 AM »


Another video which shows how similar Imamate is to the concept of Sikh Guru.
21 min the Guru is all knowing
24 Just like Imamate, Guruship is status which hasn't been fully given.
I also notice he says Guru is superior to Prophethood, just like how the 12er Shia say Imamate is higher than Prophethood.
Also, like the 12ers the Sikhs use analogies.

Rationalist

Re: Sikh Guru And Twelver Imamate Concept Very Similar
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2018, 01:54:28 AM »
So, here is Bladerunner debating against a Sikh.  In terms of debating he was a position where the 12er Shia and Sunni agree.



He did a good job.


 

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