Bigger Shia Myth [Poll]

[ZulFiqar]

The Hadith about 73 sects is not only sound but has been accepted by the majority of the Ummah as true for generations. To know about the details of its authenticity you can watch an informative lecture on the Hadith by Yasir Qadhi. Shaykh Ninowy didn't give any evidence to prove the Hadith is fabricated:

Now you say many righteous scholars from Ahlul Bayt claimed to be the Mahdi. Mind telling me who they were? And since you only accept Mutawaatir, you have to quote to me a Mutawaatir report that a righteous scholar from Ahlul Bayt claimed to be the Mahdi.

Surely there were many claimants to the Mahdi from among the unrighteous impostors, but none of them distributed wealth to the people without counting it, the foolproof sign of the true Mahdi.

[Rationalist]

The Hadith about 73 sects is not only sound but has been accepted by the majority of the Ummah as true for generations. To know about the details of its authenticity you can watch an informative lecture on the Hadith by Yasir Qadhi. Shaykh Ninowy didn't give any evidence to prove the Hadith is fabricated:

Acceptance by the majority of the Ummah [/quote]

Just because the majority of the ummah declared it true, it doesn't have to  accepted by everyone. An Ijma is where all the Muslims sect agree which includes the Khawarij, Mutazilla, Shia etc.
There are scholars who declared it weak such as Ibn Hazm and Ibn al-Wazîr.

Now you say many righteous scholars from Ahlul Bayt claimed to be the Mahdi. Mind telling me who they were? And since you only accept Mutawaatir, you have to quote to me a Mutawaatir report that a righteous scholar from Ahlul Bayt claimed to be the Mahdi.

Historical reports in aftermath of the Prophet (pbuh) will never qualify as Mutawatir. Mutawatir have to be based on the Prophet (pbuh) saying and teaching which occur in his lifetime.
As for claims one of them I can recall is Nafs-az-Zakiyah. Another one is Muhammad bin Jafar as Sadiq.
Refer to Maqatil at Talibeen.

[ZulFiqar]

Historical reports in aftermath of the Prophet (pbuh) will never qualify as Mutawatir. Mutawatir have to be based on the Prophet (pbuh) saying and teaching which occur in his lifetime.
As for claims one of them I can recall is Nafs-az-Zakiyah. Another one is Muhammad bin Jafar as Sadiq.
Refer to Maqatil at Talibeen.

Where is the proof Imam Nafs al Zakiyya رضى الله عنه claimed to be the Mahdi? I am aware that certain groups claimed that he was their Mahdi, but where is the proof he himself made such a claim?

Now it is strange you say you won't believe anything without Tawaatur but in the case of historical reports you make an exception.

[Rationalist]

Where is the proof Imam Nafs al Zakiyya رضى الله عنه claimed to be the Mahdi? I am aware that certain groups claimed that he was their Mahdi, but where is the proof he himself made such a claim?

In Maqaatil at Talibeen his father Abdullah ibn Hassan (as) tells Imam Jafar his son is the Mahdi and to give him bayah.

Now it is strange you say you won't believe anything without Tawaatur but in the case of historical reports you make an exception.[/size]

You need to know the difference. I can accept a view, but if its not supported by Mutawatir hadith then  what I believe is not binding on another Muslim to be a momin.

For example the event of  al Ghadir is among the Mutawatir hadith, if I reject it I am a kaffir. However, Mawla has so many different meanings, that I am not restrict to accept only only interpretation on the subject. 

[ZulFiqar]

In Maqaatil at Talibeen his father Abdullah ibn Hassan (as) tells Imam Jafar his son is the Mahdi and to give him bayah.

No page number? Sanad? Verification? Hypothetically if you are right still didn't answer my challenge to prove that Imam Nafs al Zakiyya claimed Mahdi-ship for himself.

[Rationalist]

Muslim Ibn Qutaybah said: "Mansoor called me and said: Muhammad Ibn
     Abdillah rebelled and he called himself the Mahdi. By Allah he is not.
     I will tell you something else which I have told no one before, and
     will tell no one after you. By Allah my son is not the Mahdi
     either,... but I did so to make a good future for him."
Sunni Reference: Maqatil al-Talibeen, by Abul Faraj al-Isbahani, Pub. in
                 Saudi Arabia, pp 246-247

[Rationalist]

There isn't much explicit claim since we are going into the history of Imam of Ahlul Bayt. Therefore, the reference tends to not that strong. However, the Zaidi do admit that the narration of Abdullah ibn Hassan who is a pious Alid for both Sunnis and Zaidi did call his son the Mahdi.

http://www.salvationark.com/salvationark1/index.php/forum/theological/146-imam-nafs-az-zakiyah-as-imam-mahdi

[ZulFiqar]

Muslim Ibn Qutaybah said: "Mansoor called me and said: Muhammad Ibn
     Abdillah rebelled and he called himself the Mahdi. By Allah he is not.
     I will tell you something else which I have told no one before, and
     will tell no one after you. By Allah my son is not the Mahdi
     either,... but I did so to make a good future for him."
Sunni Reference: Maqatil al-Talibeen, by Abul Faraj al-Isbahani, Pub. in
                 Saudi Arabia, pp 246-247

You copied and pasted this from a Shi'ite website.

https://gift2shias.com/2010/09/27/maqatil-al-talibeen-a-sunni-book/

This book Maqaatil at Taalibeen isn't a Sunni book. Its author, Abul Faraj al Isbahani was a Shi'i. Furthermore, what you quoted is from the Abbasid oppressor al-Mansur

[ZulFiqar]

Here is the full Sanad for the report you attempted to quote:

قال أبو زيد : وحدثني إبراهيم بن إسحاق الغطفاني قال : حدثني كثير بن
الصلت قال : اخبرني يوسف بن قتيبة بن مسلم ولم ار بأهلنا قط خيرا منه قال : اخبرني اخي مسلم بن قتيبة قال : ارسل إلي أبو جعفر فدخلت عليه فقال : قد خرج محمد بن عبد الله وتسمى بالمهدي ، وو الله ما هو به واخرى اقولها لك لم اقلها لاحد قبلك ، ولا اقولها لاحد بعدك وابني والله ما هو بالمهدي الذي جاءت به الرواية ولكنني تيمنت به وتفاءلت به

As I mentioned earlier, these are the words of Abu Ja'far al-Mansoor, the oppressor and tyrannical king of the Abbasids.

[Rationalist]

I have a translated version at home.
As for Mansoor he was present there when Abdullah ibn Hassan told Jafar bin Muhammad that his son is the Mahdi.

Next the Sunni Scholar named Shaykh Abu Zahra included this narration in his book on Imam Jafar.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Lol. What about the "Sunni oppression in Syria and Iran"? Is that real?

[Mythbuster1]

Lol. What about the "Sunni oppression in Syria and Iran"? Is that real?

lol that's a myth

[Hadrami]

Lol. What about the "Sunni oppression in Syria and Iran"? Is that real?

lol that's a myth

shia told me theres no such thing as sunni oppression in iran by saying there are many official & member of parliament who are sunni. I always reply there are many arabs official & member of parliament in Israel too
 😀