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Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?

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Farid

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 06:40:49 PM »
Wa'alaikum salam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

I am not qualified to answer the question, "Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?" because for this I need to research Ahlul Sunnah reports which deems authentic to you where it can be shown whether Mu'awiyah did or did not change the Shari'ah.

@ Ijtaba: Forget about Sunni reports. What do you believe? Do you have Shia narrations about him changing the Shari'ah or do you assume he changed the Shari'ah without evidence?

Lol. The Shari'ah was probably changed ever since the khilafa was usurped, but no doubt it was changed when Umar took over. Not when Mu'awiyah took over.

Thank you for admitting this. =]

Ijtaba

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2017, 10:22:18 AM »
@ Ijtaba: Forget about Sunni reports. What do you believe? Do you have Shia narrations about him changing the Shari'ah or do you assume he changed the Shari'ah without evidence?


I haven't read my books either so I cannot provide narrations about Muawiyah changing Shariah. I never said Muawiyah changed Shariah nor did I say I assume he changed Shariah. I am not qualified to say anything about this topic as I myself have not studied regarding the topic in question.

However I only say this that there is high possibility of Fallible Leader making rulings, judgements or decisions which may conflict with the Shariah unknowingly or unintentionally. As the leader is fallible he is likely to make mistakes and he may judge/rule according to his own interests or preconceived notions.


Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2017, 10:50:44 AM »
However I only say this that there is high possibility of Fallible Leader making rulings, judgements or decisions which may conflict with the Shariah unknowingly or unintentionally. As the leader is fallible he is likely to make mistakes and he may judge/rule according to his own interests or preconceived notions.

That is why in Quran 4:59, we find that people were asked to refer the infallible sources in regards to any such dispute with the one in authority/leader. And the infallible sources are Allah and Prophet(saws). The rest who are in authority are all fallible.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2017, 02:10:27 PM »

Thank you for admitting this. =]

Just so you brothers don't get confused by this statement, I am not saying Mu'awiyah is innocent from innovation (he was an innovator) - I am saying the innovations and alterations of the Shari'ah started before him.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Ijtaba

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2017, 04:14:18 PM »
That is why in Quran 4:59, we find that people were asked to refer the infallible sources in regards to any such dispute with the one in authority/leader. And the infallible sources are Allah and Prophet(saws). The rest who are in authority are all fallible.

Then what is the use of Ijma and Qiyas (& Ijtihaad)?

*Ijma and Qiyas as well as Ijtihaad are used when one cannot find the solution of the problem(s) being faced in Al-Quran and Sunnah of Prophet (s.a.w.w)

It is possible to interpret Al-Quran and Hadiths according to one's own desires. Infallible sources would be interpreted by fallible people and therefore disagreements and disputes would still exist.

Farid

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2017, 05:16:38 PM »
@ Zlatan: That is understood.

I believe the purpose from this thread has been achieved.

Hani

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2017, 07:21:53 PM »
Basically, only when Yazid supposedly "changed Islam" was there an infallible rebellion where a divine individual intentionally got himself and his family killed according to some folks to "save Islam". However, it seems past divine individuals did not attempt infallible revolutions where they intentionally got themselves and families killed to "save Islam" during the time of Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman & Mu`awiyah even though these rulers ALSO "changed Islam".

Odd..huH?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimAnswers

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2017, 11:37:17 AM »
Basically, only when Yazid supposedly "changed Islam" was there an infallible rebellion where a divine individual intentionally got himself and his family killed according to some folks to "save Islam". However, it seems past divine individuals did not attempt infallible revolutions where they intentionally got themselves and families killed to "save Islam" during the time of Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman & Mu`awiyah even though these rulers ALSO "changed Islam".

Odd..huH?

This is the problem, the Shias are arguing a circular logic: Anything and everything the "Infallibles" do or don't do by definition "always saves Islam", so there is no way to have a proper sober discussion about the actual content of their actions or inactions.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did Mu'awiyah change the Shari'ah?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2017, 08:45:36 PM »
That is why in Quran 4:59, we find that people were asked to refer the infallible sources in regards to any such dispute with the one in authority/leader. And the infallible sources are Allah and Prophet(saws). The rest who are in authority are all fallible.

Then what is the use of Ijma and Qiyas (& Ijtihaad)?

*Ijma and Qiyas as well as Ijtihaad are used when one cannot find the solution of the problem(s) being faced in Al-Quran and Sunnah of Prophet (s.a.w.w)

It is possible to interpret Al-Quran and Hadiths according to one's own desires. Infallible sources would be interpreted by fallible people and therefore disagreements and disputes would still exist.

Making Ijtihaad is a part of Sunnah, it won't be considered, changing the Shariah, even if the Mujtahid erred.

Amr ibn Al-As reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning (ijtihad) and he is correct, then he will have two rewards. If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning and he is mistaken, then he will have one reward.” [Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 6919, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1716]

And there weren't any other infallible people after Prophet(saws) to make ijtihaad.

عن علي قال : قلت : يا رسول الله ، إن نزل بنا أمر ليس فيه بيان : أمر ولا نهي ، فما تأمرنا ؟ قال : تشاورون الفقهاء والعابدين ، ولا تمضوا فيه رأي خاصة
Ali(ra) said: Oh Messenger of Allah Salallahu `alayhi wassalam: If a matter comes upon us about which there is no information, neither to do it nor to abstain from it. so, What do you command us regarding it? He (the Prophet) said consult your (righteouss) Fuqahaa and (knowledgable) Aabideen(worshipers) and Do not execute (orders) on the opinion of any (one) specific person. [Al Mu`jam al Awsat, Hadeeth 1641, Classed as Hasan by Abu Yahya noorpuri]

 

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