did some sahaba preferred ali(r.a) over Abubakr(r.a)?

[Ahlus_sunnah]

ibn abdulbirr said in al istiab

إن السلف اختلفوا في تفضيل أبي بكر و علي رضي الله تعالى عنهما, وإن سلمان وأبا ذر والمقداد والخباب و جابرا وأبا سعيد الخدري وزيد بن أرقم رضي الله تعالى عنهم فضلوا علياً على غيره, وقالوا: هو أول من أسلم

plz explain this for me

[Farid]

I don't accept empty statements without proof akhi. Ibn Abd Al Barr would struggle to find one reference for the above, let alone proof for all.

[Hani]

Based on the above, he's saying 7 people out of 100,000+ Sahabah preferred Ali over anyone else.

I would say, as above, there's bearly any evidence for this, maybe Ammar only but not the others.

Ali preferred Abu Bakr over himself.

[Abu Jasim Al-Salafi]

Ahlus-Sunnah have an Ijmaa' that Abu-Bakr and Umar رضي الله عنهم are loved more by the Prophet than Sayyidna Ali رضي الله عنه.

And this is what Imam Malik said, and Al-Laith Ibn Saad, and Imam Abu-Hanifa, and Imam Sufyan al-Thawry, and others.

والله أعلم

[Rationalist]

Based on the above, he's saying 7 people out of 100,000+ Sahabah preferred Ali over anyone else.

I would say, as above, there's bearly any evidence for this, maybe Ammar only but not the others.

100,000 sahaba? We had a number that big? Unless you factor in that a sahabi does not have to be pious.

Ali preferred Abu Bakr over himself.

The interpretation of that hadith is that he was being humble.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

100,000 sahaba? We had a number that big? Unless you factor in that a sahabi does not have to be pious.

Consider atleast the Muhajireen and Ansar, regardless of their numbers.

The interpretation of that hadith is that he was being humble.

This is invalid interpretation, which has been explained to you several times, and each time you chose to skip that explanation.

Here you go again:

1. This argument is illogical because the interpretation of humbleness would have been valid, if the questioner would have asked Ali(ra) about superiority ALONG with the OPTIONS. Like whom does Ali(ra) consider to be the best of people after Prophet(saw), Whether Abubakr or Umar or Ali. If this would have been the case then the interpretation that the reply of Ali(ra) was out of humbleness would have been considerable, but in the narration of Sahi Bukhari, we don't find that Ali(ra) was given any Choice, such as, whether he considers himself superior or Abubakr(ra) superior or not. His son just asked him that who were the best people after prophet(saw), WITHOUT ANY Choices given to him. Even then Ali(ra) named Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra).

2. Further we notice that, Ali(ra) didn’t name any other companion. If he was being humble then he(ra) should have said that all sahaba are at same level. We find Ali(ra) specifically naming Abubakr and Umar.

3.Why did Ali(ra) differentiate between Abubakr and Umar ? If he was being humble, then he should have applied the same rule towards Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra), that both were at same level, but he said after Prophet(Saw) Abubaklr is the best and then after him, Umar.

[Hani]

I think the first two are A LOT better than the second two, no comparison.

[Hadrami]

If we think with shia mindset (twelvers or not), its possible that Sunni would think zayd ibn haritha RA is a lot better than Ali RA considering how close and how much Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam loved him and his son usama RA, even tho theyre not blood related. If shia is consistent, they shud say zayd ra was an imam too.

[Rationalist]

This is invalid interpretation, which has been explained to you several times, and each time you chose to skip that explanation.

Where has its explained to me several times?  Please provide the links.

1. This argument is illogical because the interpretation of humbleness would have been valid, if the questioner would have asked Ali(ra) about superiority ALONG with the OPTIONS. Like whom does Ali(ra) consider to be the best of people after Prophet(saw), Whether Abubakr or Umar or Ali. If this would have been the case then the interpretation that the reply of Ali(ra) was out of humbleness would have been considerable, but in the narration of Sahi Bukhari, we don't find that Ali(ra) was given any Choice, such as, whether he considers himself superior or Abubakr(ra) superior or not. His son just asked him that who were the best people after prophet(saw), WITHOUT ANY Choices given to him. Even then Ali(ra) named Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra).

There are narrations where Abi Bakr said I am not the best among you. Likewise this is similar.
There are even narrations where Umar says I wish I had merits which Ali had. 

2. Further we notice that, Ali(ra) didn’t name any other companion. If he was being humble then he(ra) should have said that all sahaba are at same level. We find Ali(ra) specifically naming Abubakr and Umar.

That would illogical if he said all are at the same level. These were companions who accepted Islam at the toughest times.

3.Why did Ali(ra) differentiate between Abubakr and Umar ? If he was being humble, then he should have applied the same rule towards Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra), that both were at same level, but he said after Prophet(Saw) Abubaklr is the best and then after him, Umar.

There is a difference between them. We all know this. Abi Bakr was much superior in knowledge and he accepted Islam way before Umar. Umar on the contrary was a better ruler.

[Rationalist]

If we think with shia mindset (twelvers or not), its possible that Sunni would think zayd ibn haritha RA is a lot better than Ali RA considering how close and how much Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam loved him and his son usama RA, even tho theyre not blood related. If shia is consistent, they shud say zayd ra was an imam too.

In the Sunni belief there is proof that Fatima (sa) is superior to Ali (as), but this can't be proven from the 12er Shia sources.

[Hani]

What Abu Bakr said was out of humbleness because a pious believer would not assume he is the best man on earth, proof is he never named anybody. If he had named Fulan and Fulan were better than him then we'd have to take his words literally as we did with `Ali.

`Ali wished he died with `Umar's deeds.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

This is invalid interpretation, which has been explained to you several times, and each time you chose to skip that explanation.

Where has its explained to me several times?  Please provide the links.

It was if you are brother Abdaal.

1. This argument is illogical because the interpretation of humbleness would have been valid, if the questioner would have asked Ali(ra) about superiority ALONG with the OPTIONS. Like whom does Ali(ra) consider to be the best of people after Prophet(saw), Whether Abubakr or Umar or Ali. If this would have been the case then the interpretation that the reply of Ali(ra) was out of humbleness would have been considerable, but in the narration of Sahi Bukhari, we don't find that Ali(ra) was given any Choice, such as, whether he considers himself superior or Abubakr(ra) superior or not. His son just asked him that who were the best people after prophet(saw), WITHOUT ANY Choices given to him. Even then Ali(ra) named Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra).

There are narrations where Abi Bakr said I am not the best among you. Likewise this is similar.
There are even narrations where Umar says I wish I had merits which Ali had. 

Again, you missed the gist of the point I made. My argument is that, the questioner never gave any options to Ali(RA). He didn't ask whether you are superior or Abu Bakr & Umar. Rather it was a general question, yet out of all the Muhajireen and Ansar, Ali(RA) named Abu bakr and then Umar. This is a clear proof that he wasn't being humble.

As for the example you gave about Abu bakr, then you see the difference in these two incidents... Abu bakr(RA) doesn't says I'm not the best FROM SOME OF YOU. OR I'm not the best from ONE OF YOU. Rather he makes it general, which shows it was out of Humbleness. Whereas, ALi(RA) restricts it to individuals.

As for the example of Umar(RA), then it isn't a clear evidence of superiority.

2. Further we notice that, Ali(ra) didn’t name any other companion. If he was being humble then he(ra) should have said that all sahaba are at same level. We find Ali(ra) specifically naming Abubakr and Umar.

That would illogical if he said all are at the same level. These were companions who accepted Islam at the toughest times.

You missed the point. If he was being humble, then he would have said so, instead of naming two people out of hundreds of Muhajireen n Ansar.

3.Why did Ali(ra) differentiate between Abubakr and Umar ? If he was being humble, then he should have applied the same rule towards Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra), that both were at same level, but he said after Prophet(Saw) Abubaklr is the best and then after him, Umar.

There is a difference between them. We all know this. Abi Bakr was much superior in knowledge and he accepted Islam way before Umar. Umar on the contrary was a better ruler.

That's true, which shows that Ali(RA) wasn't being humble, but rather straight forward. If he was answering as being humble, he wouldn't have said Abu bakr then Umar.

[Rationalist]

What about the whole ahadith where Ali concludes he is only an ordinary person?

[Rationalist]

`Ali wished he died with `Umar's deeds.

No surprise there. Umar didn't face any internal opposition, and due to this his Caliphate was the best in terms of progress.
Imagine you die in a state where you manage to improve someone social conditions, and with this improved social condition that person became a better Muslim.

[Hani]

No surprise there. Umar didn't face any internal opposition, and due to this his Caliphate was the best in terms of progress.
Imagine you die in a state where you manage to improve someone social conditions, and with this improved social condition that person became a better Muslim.

`Ali didn't know at the time his reign was going to be that bad. This strengthens the value of his praise for `Umar.

What about the whole ahadith where Ali concludes he is only an ordinary person?

He says "I am a man from the Muslims." This part although is a correct statement, yet it hints towards him being humble and shows he disliked to praise himself or speak of his special status. Although he did do that a lot during the Fitnah for political reasons.

[Rationalist]

`Ali didn't know at the time his reign was going to be that bad. This strengthens the value of his praise for `Umar.

I am leaning toward the opinion he was told about it, just like the Prophet (pbuh) spoke about what Hussain will experience.
In fact recall the Prophecy of Al Hassan. This son of mine is a syed and he will bring peace between two groups.

He says "I am a man from the Muslims." This part although is a correct statement, yet it hints towards him being humble and shows he disliked to praise himself or speak of his special status. Although he did do that a lot during the Fitnah for political reasons.

Even Imam Zain al Abideen's dua were famous when he used to repent.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

What about the whole ahadith where Ali concludes he is only an ordinary person?

Yes, when it comes to stating his own position, then he was being humble. But him stating his own position out of humbleness, doesn't negate the fact that, the first two positions he mentioned were literal and a straight forward response, because of the reasons explained to you. What adds weight to this is that, the questioner, was AFRAID, he would say Uthman as third. So why to fear, if he was just being humble, listing the first two positions?

Had Ali been straight forward while answering his own position, then he would have said fourth position. Wallahu alam.

[Ijtaba]

Salaam.

I agree with the position that Imam Ali (a.s) was being humble in not preferring himself to others. All Muslims believe  that our Prophet - Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w.) to be the Leader of All Prophets (a.s) and to be superior to all Prophets (a.s) but Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) said following about himself (s.a.w.w) regarding Superiority:

01. Prophet Yunus (a.s)

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 127:
Narrated Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "None has the right to say that I am better than Jonah bin Matta."

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 128:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Whoever says that I am better than Jonah bin Matta, is a liar."

02. Prophet Musa (a.s)

Sahih Bukhari
Hadith no: 601 
Narrated / Authority of: Abu Huraira
Two persons, a Muslim and a Jew, quarrelled. The Muslim said, "By Him Who gave Muhammad superiority over all the people! The Jew said, "By Him Who gave Moses superiority over all the people!" At that the Muslim raised his hand and slapped the Jew on the face. The Jew went to the Prophet (SAW) and informed him of what had happened between him and the Muslim. The Prophet (SAW) sent for the Muslim and asked him about it. The Muslim informed him of the event. The Prophet (SAW) said, "Do not give me superiority over Moses, for on the Day of Resurrection all the people will fall unconscious and I will be one of them, but I will. be the first to gain consciousness, and will see Moses standing and holding the side of the Throne (of Allah). I will not know whether (Moses) has also fallen unconscious and got up before me, or Allah has exempted him from that stroke."

Sahih Bukhari
Hadith no: 602 
Narrated / Authority of: Abu Said Al-Khudri
While Allah's Apostle (SAW) was sitting, a Jew came and said, "O Abul Qasim! One of your companions has slapped me on my face." The Prophet (SAW) asked who that was. He replied that he was one of the Ansar. The Prophet (SAW) sent for him, and on his arrival, he asked him whether he had beaten the Jew. He (replied in the affirmative and) said, "I heard him taking an oath in the market saying, 'By Him Who gave Musa (Moses) superiority over all the human beings.' I said, 'O wicked man! (Has Allah given Musa superiority) even over Muhammad (SAW) I became furious and slapped him over his face." The Prophet (SAW) said, "Do not give a prophet superiority over another, for on the Day of Resurrection all the people will fall unconscious and I will be the first to emerge from the earth, and will see Musa (Moses) standing and holding one of the legs of the Throne. I will not know whether Musa (Moses) has fallen unconscious or the first unconsciousness was sufficient for him."

So we can see from these hadiths that it is better to avoid such topics. Prophets (a.s) and Righteous People (r.a) never consider themselves superior to others due to their humility and humbleness.

[Hani]

While I agree with brother Ijtaba that such topics must be avoided and that it is ridiculously childish to even discuss this, YET don't forget we are dealing with Twelver Shia who are the most childish and ridiculous group out there, it is this group's favorite hobby to compare people's virtues, strengths, merits, deeds etc... just to boast that their favorite is greater than all our favorites.

So when dealing with kids you will have to go to their level sometimes unfortunately...

Therefore, this statement by the Prophet (saw):

"Do not give a prophet superiority over another"

Is unlike `Ali's statement when he heard some men insult Abu Bakr and `Umar, he climbed the pulpit and said:

"The best of people after the Prophet (saw) passed away were Abu Bakr and then `Umar."

While I believe `Ali is humble, and he wouldn't boast in the case that he actually was best, yet I firmly believe he meant every word he said.

Similarly, when Abu Bakr wished for `Umar to accept the Caliphate, `Umar refused it telling him that he deserves it more: "Abu Bakr is the best of us, I cannot lead people when Abu Bakr is in their midst."

I don't think this is humbleness, he actually meant what he said.

So now let's talk about humbleness and modesty, a big part of humbleness is actually admitting that others are in fact superior to you, a humble man is not necessarily a man who keeps saying others are better if they aren't, a humble man is also an honest man who admits his faults and inferiority.

[Moin]

I have dealt with a lot of those traditions based on which some scholars concluded there were ikhtilaf among companions about tafzeel.

https://islamistruth.wordpress.com/2014/02/09/answering-arguments-against-the-superiority-of-abu-bakr-and-umar/

To claim that Ali was being humble when he preferred Abu Bakr and Umar over himself is wrong. A humble man would say “I am not best” or “I am an ordinary person” but he would never say “This and this person is best after This person”. Why Ali didn't say Jafar was best or Abbas was best or Ali was best??? Because his statement was a verdict on the Minbar not a saying of a humble person.