Help with Shia-Sunni related questions | FAO: Hani, Farid, and everyone else

[Optimus Prime]

Mine, and your brother Maulana Abdul Haleen is going to be visiting a sister tomorrow who is contemplating accepting Shiaism. Her husband is also a Shia. He's hoping by the will of Allah he's able to talk her out of it.

She is going to have a list of questions prepared for him, and he's readying himself to address every single one of them. However, he's requested if the brothers from this forum can assist him, Insh'Allah.

He'd like everyone to share a list of fundamental questions that we would ask a Shia as a means to prove that their version of Islam is correct, particularly with regards to Imamat. He'll also relying on us to help him answer any questions that might prove challenging.

Maulana Abdul Haleen on this site is "sahabasword".

I've posted his work before on this site:

http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/shias-and-the-qur'an-maulana-abdul-haleem/msg9575/#msg9575
http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-discussion/videos-of-shaykh-maulana-abdul-haleem-refuting-shia-misconceptions/msg1345/#msg1345


Reason for edit: Improved the title

[Farid]

Have him keep it simple and to ask for evidences of Imamah of the Twelve Imams, since it is an article of their faith, and that whoever neglects one Imam is damned to hell for eternity.

Shia will provide the hadith of Twelve Caliphs from Saheehain. This is insufficient since their names are not mentioned. How can it be an article of faith if the names are not mentioned? Also, see our articles on the hadith of Twelve Caliphs.

Then, the Shia will provide a narration from Yanabee' Al Mawadda, which is actually a quote from a Shia source. Search this forum for refutations of this silly hadith.

Checkmate.

[Farid]

Most importantly, don't get dragged into a discussion about Ali bin Abi Talib. It is irrelevant since he is only one Imam out of the Twelve. Even if one believes he is an appointed Imam, one will be damned fir rejecting the others, hence, it is a pointless discussion.

[al-kulayni]

Salam akhi,

The lack of an explicit verses in the quran about imamah whereas there are explicit verses about how to visit someone in his house (surah 24 - 27/28) and as farid said if you don't believe in only one of the 12 imam, you go in hell for ever and you are more impure and kafir than jews and Christians but if you don't knock on the door when visiting someone you don't go in hell :-)

So where is the correlation of their first asl ad-din with the quran ?

[Optimus Prime]

Have him keep it simple and to ask for evidences of Imamah of the Twelve Imams, since it is an article of their faith, and that whoever neglects one Imam is damned to hell for eternity.

Shia will provide the hadith of Twelve Caliphs from Saheehain. This is insufficient since their names are not mentioned. How can it be an article of faith if the names are not mentioned? Also, see our articles on the hadith of Twelve Caliphs.

Then, the Shia will provide a narration from Yanabee' Al Mawadda, which is actually a quote from a Shia source. Search this forum for refutations of this silly hadith.

Checkmate.

Brother Farid, thanks for this insight. I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

I searched for "Yanabee' Al Mawadda" on the forum, and found nothing. Can, you please list some helpful threads where this narration has been refuted.

I'll search for the article on the hadith of Twelve Caliph.

I hope brother Hani throws his 2ps worth as well.

[Farid]

http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/hadith-of-twelve-imams-from-yanabi-al-mawada-and-fara%27id-al-simtain/msg8985/#msg8985

http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/is-%27fara%27id-al-samtayn%27-a-sunni-book/msg1415/#msg1415

These two threads are relevant. This is irrefutable evidence of course.

Do tell Maulana Abdul Haleem that I wish him all the best. May Allah bless his efforts.

[Optimus Prime]

Jazak'Allah. I'm sure he'll check out the thread.

[MuslimAnswers]

Salam Alaykum,

Maybe a little bit late with this addition, but the Twelver view is that of denying the relevance of the community of believers - while the stories of sorrow may sound good, yet it is only within the context of community that the Quranic Verses or even the Ahadeeth they try to use against us even exist to begin with. What the 12ers are attempting is akin to speak a language while denying the validity of the alphabet (and the 12er mindset has a correlation with Orientalist attempts to "deconstruct Islam", deny the relevance of the Ummah, etc.)

[Rationalist]

Have him keep it simple and to ask for evidences of Imamah of the Twelve Imams, since it is an article of their faith, and that whoever neglects one Imam is damned to hell for eternity.

Shia will provide the hadith of Twelve Caliphs from Saheehain. This is insufficient since their names are not mentioned. How can it be an article of faith if the names are not mentioned? Also, see our articles on the hadith of Twelve Caliphs.

Then, the Shia will provide a narration from Yanabee' Al Mawadda, which is actually a quote from a Shia source. Search this forum for refutations of this silly hadith.

Checkmate.

This is good. We should be clear in dawah that it is difficult to come to an ijma on the Caliphate of the 3 since we don't believe it was divine appointment, or to see decisions such as Fadak, Saqifa, the ijitihad of the 3 Calipahs to be binding on the ummah. However, one should also realize just because many these topics have the possibility to be proven wrong, it doesn't automatically mean that there are 12 Imams in the ummah.