Hassan (RA) & Hussain (RA) got slapped by their father

[Ameen]

Fail??? Oh come on. It's just started to get interesting. Abdullah Ibne Saba??? Very strong and influential character we have here, who certainly got the third Khalif running for his Khilafath and then running for his life???

Come on, you think Usman was this weak??? Or this character was responsible for the unrest and Usman's murder???

[Optimus Prime]

Simple:

a) Abu Bakr (RA) declared on those people who had become murtads, who apostated. They outright refused to pay zakat which is furdh, and thus went out of the fold of Islam. In the end he had the backing of the other companions (RA). Guess who lead the war against these people under the banner of Khalifah ta Rasoolullah? Two guesses, Ali (RA). THESE people are the so-called companions whom you should be questionning and bashing with your lanat-barkings.

b) He detected an ounce of pride, and Allah has made it clear anyone with a musk of pride in thie hearts will not not step foot in Jannah (to the nearest meaning), Umar (RA) was someone who always wanted to set the right Islamic precedent and that is to fear Allah at all times, which is why he demoted Khalid ibn Walid (RA) of military command when too many of the peopple and companions (RA) started overpraising his accommplishments rather praising Allah for granting them victory.

c) The fact your ancestor Abdullah ibn Saba was referring to Ali (RA) as God, he was lucky to be exited with his head still on his neck, what would you have done if someone referring to you as the God/Allah? Imagine, Islam taking a U-turn, and people start to worship a human being instead of the oneness of Allah? You certainly don't want to leave that legacy and undermine the efforts of the Prophet (SAW) who's fundamental objective was to preach tawheed. Having said some of your Shia comrades worship Ali (RA) directly, Astagfirullah.

d) Uthman (RA) refused to do anything about the Khwarij because it would've meant for the first time in Islam's young history at that point killing Muslims, Abdullah ibn Saba was a consipicious bastard who had manipulated millions about how Khalifat should exclusively come from Ahlul Bhait which, is a load of crock of course. So, Uthman (RA) chose not to do anything because he valued the Ummah way too much, he even tried to reason with these people, but they had already made up their minds. This was such a sacrificial and heroic  decision that Ali (RA) sent his own sons to protect him at the cost of their own lives. So, go figure.

I think logically and accept the authentic sources. Allah has blessed me with akal, Alhamdulillah.

You on the other hand are bringing up one Rafidhi topic one after the other for mere sake of it. Basically causing a form of fitna for no apparent reason, but the fact is you're confused and filled with negative feelings for these great personalities JUST like your ancestor.

[Furkan]

Uthman (ra) could have wiped of those rebels from planet Earth, it's just that he didn't want bloodshed.

He kept his position as a caliph until the end WITHOUT any bloodshed, that's a MILESTONE unlike your twelvth imam who is hiding in a cave, playing with bears and waiting for a travestite to kill him.

Ali dealth with your grandfather abdullah ibn sabah.

[Optimus Prime]

Uthman (ra) could have wiped of those rebels from planet Earth, it's just that he didn't want bloodshed.

He kept his position as a caliph until the end WITHOUT any bloodshed, that's a MILESTONE unlike your twelvth imam who is hiding in a cave, playing with bears and waiting for a travestite to kill him.

Ali dealth with your grandfather abdullah ibn sabah.

You mean OUR 'Ali (RA) dealt with him.

[Furkan]

Yup, is there another Ali? :p

YA Aliiiiiiiiii

[Ameen]

You've just put you side of the story forward, what you believe in and that is it. Just words.

Ok, I will say this again, prove to me through Quran and Sunnah that if someone refuses to pay Zaka'ath then you are allowed to spill there blood???

Prove to me through Quran and Sunnah that they are Wajib ul Qatal and also tell me what the definition of murtad is.

If someone refuses to pray do they become murtad??? Are you allowed to kill them???

According to the Quran you are forbiden to take the life of a human, never mind a Muslim.

Ali exiled Ibne Saba but Usman couldn't do that??? If Ibne Saba did exist Usman would have whacked him left right and centre.

But you have a habbit of creating excuses if you kind find any. You are short term thinkers.

You try to justify anything and everything. If Abu Bakar used forced and declared war on those who refused to pay Zaka'ath then creating the ideology of Imamath and claiming Ali is God is a far more serious crime on behalf of Ibne Saba.

[Optimus Prime]

This thread has come off topic as it has. So, any extra points you want to touch upon to start a seperate thread. I addressed the points you made in your last point, and as usual it means nothing to you. You're arguing enough for the sake of it.

I'm not going to spoon feed you with references one after the other.

You want to discuss Battle of Ridda', Umar disciplining Muawiyah (RA), Uthman's (RA) inabilty to deal with the fitna, and comparing with the action Ali (RA) took.

Start the seperate thread, and I'll happy to refute you further.

I'll comment on one point, though. Abu Bakr (RA) used force because we're talking TRIBES of people, and his anticipation of them rebelling by launching an onslaugth against Madina was vindicated. He charged Ali (RA) with the leadership of fighting against them. So, his force was to protect the citizens of Madinah not to go spilling the blood of random people because they refused to pay zakat. Seriously, you know nothing of Islamic history. So, if you're going to accusse Abu Bakr (RA) of murder for defending their lands then you also by extension accusse your so-called Imam.

Abdullah ibn Saba was ONE man who needed dealing with, and his people were not outcasted with the hope they can be reasoned with. This was Uthman's (RA) ijitihad, he did not want the first person to cause bloodshed among Muslims in this Ummah. Ali (RA) enterained different ideas and went for the throat and booted him out, but never made takfir on Uthman's (RA) decision.

As for the rest. Start seperate threads.

We don't justify everything. You're just whinging like a lil' girl because no one will see or accept your warped interpreation of Islamic history. Grow up, and accept the faith of Sunni Islam.

[Ameen]

keep on talking. That is all you seem to be doing. Just words and nothing else. First it was Khalid ibne Waleed who launched the offensive and now Ali is brought in to it who never took part in any battle or force against anyone throughout the the reign of Khilafath, until he came in to power himself.

Oh, I have learned a lot about history through the likes of yourkind. Just one excuse after the other. This is right and also that. Lets try and struggle to justify everything the Khalifs did and got up to.

Well where did they go wrong??? Where did they mess up??? Ooops, must have touched a nerve there.

Come down to earth my freind.

[Optimus Prime]

keep on talking. That is all you seem to be doing. Just words and nothing else. First it was Khalid ibne Waleed who launched the offensive and now Ali is brought in to it who never took part in any battle or force against anyone throughout the the reign of Khilafath, until he came in to power himself.

Oh, I have learned a lot about history through the likes of yourkind. Just one excuse after the other. This is right and also that. Lets try and struggle to justify everything the Khalifs did and got up to.

Well where did they go wrong??? Where did they mess up??? Ooops, must have touched a nerve there.

Come down to earth my freind.

You've lost the plot, dude. Seriously. Watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlCyrYYCvkU

[Ameen]

This is the thread where you said and claimed,

"Ali knew Uthman was superior than him",

And the reason you gave was,

"Because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters".

Now here we go again, how is this virtue a merit towards superiority??? Lets see if you have the courage to reply in a positive manner this time. You claimed you didn't say this. You claimed that nobody had said this and you don't believe in this on the "qualities and virtues of Usman" thread.

What's happening bro???

[Ameen]

Ok brothers and sisters and a special note to my dear brother Imam Ali. this is the 4th reply on the first page of this thread. take a look at what brother Hadrami said,

"Re: Hassan (RA) & Hussain (RA) got slapped by their father
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 09:59:21 PM »
this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters. The only leader of a superpower nation in history who would rather die than having someone else fight for him. It is insane not to at least recognise that instead of cursing him RA.

Note the words at the beginning,

"The ONLY MAN that Rasulullah considered GOOD ENOUGH",

Yes, the only one who was considered good enough and not by my brothers but by the Prophet (pbuh) himself. This very clearly puts Usman above everyone, forget about the Shaikhain. So this man (Usman) should be number one and not number three, brother Imam Ali.

Later on you (bro Imam Ali) claimed that Ali knew Usman was superior than him and the reason you gave, you very well know. So why did you deny what you clearly said??? Or was it a slip of the memory???

Now the answer to your question again,

The Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two of his daughters to this man (Usman). Why??? Not because he was a good man but because he was better and more worthy than the Shaikhain. Do you agree to what you said and believe in??? Or are we going to come up with some other lame excuse???

And this is why the Shaikhain got turned down every time they put a request forward. Forget about Fatimah because brothers use an excuse that the Prophet (pbuh) refused to give Fatimah's hand to either of the Shaikhain because they were already connected to the Prophet (pbuh), through marrying their own daughters.

But what about the Shaikhain requesting to marry other daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) Why were they turned down then??? Did they have a connection with the Prophet (pbuh) then??? They were turned down because they were not good enough men, but Usman was more better and worthy. More superior. Would you agree my dear brothers???

Note for the audience, when Sakeefa took place and those people who opposed Sakeefa and refused to accept Abu Bakar as the first Khalif and give him Baya, Usman was one of them. He also was at the residence of Ali and amongst the opposite group when threats were made to curb this group in.

This is something off topic and my apologies for this but just a side note. Something that I have been informed about but will look in to it ASAP. There was quite a bit of resentment between the companions themselves, for a number of reasons.

[Optimus Prime]

This is the thread where you said and claimed,

"Ali knew Uthman was superior than him",

And the reason you gave was,

"Because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters".

Now here we go again, how is this virtue a merit towards superiority??? Lets see if you have the courage to reply in a positive manner this time. You claimed you didn't say this. You claimed that nobody had said this and you don't believe in this on the "qualities and virtues of Usman" thread.

What's happening bro???

lol, you're hell-bent. Read my reply in the other thread. You're trying to shove words down my throat, but it ain't going to happen. Your question has been answered on more than one occasion, Ameen.

[Optimus Prime]

Ok brothers and sisters and a special note to my dear brother Imam Ali. this is the 4th reply on the first page of this thread. take a look at what brother Hadrami said,

"Re: Hassan (RA) & Hussain (RA) got slapped by their father
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 09:59:21 PM »
this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters. The only leader of a superpower nation in history who would rather die than having someone else fight for him. It is insane not to at least recognise that instead of cursing him RA.

Note the words at the beginning,

"The ONLY MAN that Rasulullah considered GOOD ENOUGH",

Yes, the only one who was considered good enough and not by my brothers but by the Prophet (pbuh) himself. This very clearly puts Usman above everyone, forget about the Shaikhain. So this man (Usman) should be number one and not number three, brother Imam Ali.

Later on you (bro Imam Ali) claimed that Ali knew Usman was superior than him and the reason you gave, you very well know. So why did you deny what you clearly said??? Or was it a slip of the memory???

Now the answer to your question again,

The Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two of his daughters to this man (Usman). Why??? Not because he was a good man but because he was better and more worthy than the Shaikhain. Do you agree to what you said and believe in??? Or are we going to come up with some other lame excuse???

And this is why the Shaikhain got turned down every time they put a request forward. Forget about Fatimah because brothers use an excuse that the Prophet (pbuh) refused to give Fatimah's hand to either of the Shaikhain because they were already connected to the Prophet (pbuh), through marrying their own daughters.

But what about the Shaikhain requesting to marry other daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) Why were they turned down then??? Did they have a connection with the Prophet (pbuh) then??? They were turned down because they were not good enough men, but Usman was more better and worthy. More superior. Would you agree my dear brothers???

Note for the audience, when Sakeefa took place and those people who opposed Sakeefa and refused to accept Abu Bakar as the first Khalif and give him Baya, Usman was one of them. He also was at the residence of Ali and amongst the opposite group when threats were made to curb this group in.

This is something off topic and my apologies for this but just a side note. Something that I have been informed about but will look in to it ASAP. There was quite a bit of resentment between the companions themselves, for a number of reasons.

You're thinking way too hard now, and taking this too heart. Let me wrap it up for you:

- You've mis-understood what we've said
- You refuse to accept this mis-understanding, and keep persisting with this notion that we believe Uthman's (RA) marriage to two daughters of the Prophet (SAW) is the ultimate indictor which, dictates supremacy, this is NOT the case

But what about the Shaikhain requesting to marry other daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) Why were they turned down then???

What on EARTH are you talking about? Now you're just making things up [edit] just to add weight to your argument. You made it clear forget Fatima (RA), so what other daughters are you referring to? Who did they else propose too, ansd were turned down? By the time Fatima (RA) was about to wedded the other 2 were already married with Raqqiyah (RA) having passed away at this point. Either you're [edit] or are confused. Which, is it?

Uthman (RA) was not in the house of Ali (RA), and he did gave bay'yah to Abu Bakr (RA). Again, another knowledge gap dude. You mean Zubair ibn Awam (RA) was there, and the incident of Saqeefah has no connection to the point you're trying to make which, is out of nothing.

It is the creed of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah that Uthman (RA) is number 3 based on authentic narrations that highlight his endless virtues, based on Ali's (RA) testimoney himself, and the classical scholars. Uthman (RA) is the only man in HISTORY who has married two daughters of a Prophet,which, screams AWESOMENESS about the man (RA) whether that holds him higher than the other companions is a personal optinion and suject to debate. Anyone can at least admit this is a unique quality of the man, but since you lack [edit] a real man to admit this, I won't goad you any further.

I hope that's clear.

[Ameen]

Why did the Prophet (pbuh) decide to marry his daughter to Usman and then the second to him??? Why not one of the Shaikhain??? Were the Shaikhain any less?? According to my dear brother Hadrami, this would be a yes. Because he said and believes that Usman was the only good man available, or the only best man.

Now stop beating around the bush and bring this to me. You know what brother Hadrami said and you certainly know what you said. I'm not doing anything or adding anything. You are short term thinkers and you certainly don't think things through before posting. You've got yourself stuck in to this. Now be a gentlemen that you most definitely are and stop trying to jump out of it.

[Ameen]

Usman is number three when it comes to Khilafath. This has got absolutely nothing to do with virtues, merits or qualities. That's a different ball game. The next comment is off topic, so my apologies in advance. Just to point out and I will discuss this with you later if you wish.

The companions were human beings who were capable of making errors and mistakes. They were capable of being jealous or holding grudge or disappointment with each other. The first two were a little bit disappoint with the next two because they didn't get the privilege of marrying any of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters. And the Prophet (pbuh) overlooked and disregarded the first two. This didn't settle two well with the Shaikhain.

Like I said that this is off topic and my apologies for it. But if you want to discuss this further like gentlemen then I will start a thread and give you reasoning for this.

[Optimus Prime]

Why did the Prophet (pbuh) decide to marry his daughter to Usman and then the second to him??? Why not one of the Shaikhain??? Were the Shaikhain any less?? According to my dear brother Hadrami, this would be a yes. Because he said and believes that Usman was the only good man available, or the only best man.

Now stop beating around the bush and bring this to me. You know what brother Hadrami said and you certainly know what you said. I'm not doing anything or adding anything. You are short term thinkers and you certainly don't think things through before posting. You've got yourself stuck in to this. Now be a gentlemen that you most definitely are and stop trying to jump out of it.

Ameen, you got yourself stuck in a circle of confusion because you want me to say something I've clarified countless times. If Hadrami states that then that's his prerogative, and take it up with him.

I've clarified the mis-understanding yet you're still persisting relentlessly. This clearly confirms you're bitter and consumed with hatred that we refuse to see things from your Rafidhi point of view.

- Your question why the Prophet (SAW) did not marry any of his daughters to Abu Bakr (RA), Umar (RA) or anyone else besides Uthman (RA) has been addressed
- Your question does Uthman's (RA) marriage to two daughters alone surpass Ali (RA) in status has been addressed
- Your other loop-holes have also been corrected where you got certain facts about Islamic history

Just re-read the entire thread.

We've answered and addressed you countless times, but you've not once answered any of our questions head-on which, shows you're a yellow-belly (metaphorically speaking). A common trait of a Rafidhi, but that's alright.

Uthman (RA) zindabaad!!

[Optimus Prime]

Usman is number three when it comes to Khilafath. This has got absolutely nothing to do with virtues, merits or qualities. That's a different ball game. The next comment is off topic, so my apologies in advance. Just to point out and I will discuss this with you later if you wish.

The companions were human beings who were capable of making errors and mistakes. They were capable of being jealous or holding grudge or disappointment with each other. The first two were a little bit disappoint with the next two because they didn't get the privilege of marrying any of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters. And the Prophet (pbuh) overlooked and disregarded the first two. This didn't settle two well with the Shaikhain.

Like I said that this is off topic and my apologies for it. But if you want to discuss this further like gentlemen then I will start a thread and give you reasoning for this.

Correction loser, Uthman (RA) is the third GREATEAT person in this Ummah. The fact he's apart of the Khulafah Rashideen is another virtue of his as the Prophet (SAW) for the first 30 years, all the Caliphs will be rightful guided.

I'll be more than willing to lock horns with you anytime. You've already (in my view) lost this one mate.

I started another discussion printed with your name on it. Go find it.

[Hani]

Okay so you guys better start another thread, this one is un-necessarily big.

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