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Have 12er Shias transferred 'Ismah to their community at large?

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MuslimAnswers

Have 12er Shias transferred 'Ismah to their community at large?
« on: December 07, 2017, 09:30:15 AM »
Salam Alaykum,

Going through a lot of the discussions on this forum and the double reality of Shias' vociferous proclamations of being right in every single theather they touch upon on the one hand, yet their extreme insecurity at actually dealing with substantive critiques and dismissing it (Trump-style) as 'fake news' on the other, has it ever occurred to the members that on a certain level the "Infalliblity" doctrine is being transferred from their "Imams" and especially their occult one and handed over to the institutions, organizations and persons of the Shias?

It would be somewhat paradoxical if this is truly what is happening, but this seems to be the only explanation for the extremely harsh reactions any questioning (even mild questioning) of their actions engender [i.e., they must be thinking of the activities as Infallible-like, thus absolutely beyond reproach].

Discuss.

Farid

Re: Have 12er Shias transferred 'Ismah to their community at large?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 11:16:13 AM »
Wa alaykum alsalam,

It is natural for the "saved sect" to assume that it is correct in all matters, no matter how small it is, even if it has nothing to do with the sect.

However, what I find ironic is when some of their scholars argue: "Proof for the imamate of the twelve is the consensus of twelvers."

What kind of circular logic is that?!

MuslimAnswers

Re: Have 12er Shias transferred 'Ismah to their community at large?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 02:02:00 PM »
Wa alaykum alsalam,

It is natural for the "saved sect" to assume that it is correct in all matters, no matter how small it is, even if it has nothing to do with the sect.

However, what I find ironic is when some of their scholars argue: "Proof for the imamate of the twelve is the consensus of twelvers."

What kind of circular logic is that?!

Circularity is there, with this and also with the famous 'Only the Imams can interpret the Quran' coupled with 'To know if a Hadith is from the Imam compare it with the Quran'.

But moreover, even other things like trying to delve into the number of pilgrims to their holy sites is treated as if it was us blaspheming against the Quran. It is when this attitude of theirs is turned towards violence that real disasters occur in the Ummah.

MuslimAnswers

Re: Have 12er Shias transferred 'Ismah to their community at large?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2017, 09:19:45 AM »
^

One more thing about this is that of course we Sunnis do appeal to consensus, but obviously being a much larger group with a very rich history the matter would have to be quite strong in order for real consensus to be achieved, not a knee-jerk defensive reaction to prove ourselves different from the "Aammah".

Rationalist

Re: Have 12er Shias transferred 'Ismah to their community at large?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2017, 01:26:14 AM »
12er Shia believe Allah (swt) created them from a separate clay. They actually have hadith to support this.

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MuslimAnswers

Re: Have 12er Shias transferred 'Ismah to their community at large?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 07:38:32 AM »
Related:
Shia Ayatollah: Ali Khamenei, the wali al-faqih, has attained infallibility


It would seem very easy to convert the one Dhill (a shadow or a mirror of sorts) into multiple shadows and mirrors - that is Khamenei or the Assembly of Experts can transfer 'Ismah to the IRGC top command, to Mr. Hassan Nasr, to his other proxies, and on and on. Then any violence they commit will be turned into a 'Holy, Infallible' action. Strange and sad indeed.

 

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