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Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing

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whoaretheshia

Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« on: December 10, 2017, 05:53:24 AM »
Asalamu alaykum,

I am not here to debate about Mutah, something which has been done dozens of times over. However, i would like to know whether you agree with the opinion of Ibn Bad, that it is permissible to marry a woman, with the intention you will divorce her after a day? Is it permissible to marry a woman with such an intention , because you a travelling, and you know for sure you will divorce her after a day, but you do not explicitly put it in the marriage contract? So after the day, you divorce her and carry on with your life and journey?  I know scholars like Ibn Uthaymeen have essentially viewed it as temporary marriage and a loop-hole that is practically liked temporary marriage. You could claim your intention is to marry for a week while you travel, the woman could be aware of this, but you need not explicitly stipulate it in your divorce contract.However in this video Ibn Baz thinks differently:



In fact, the Shafi's say that the marriage is valid, but that is Makruh (permissible, but better not to do and there will be no punishment for it)

[Please watch the video and please stick to the topic]

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" O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice.. even if it be against yourselves... So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be jus

whoaretheshia

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 05:56:21 AM »
I understand the view of most of the Hanbali scholars is against this, and i understand ibn Baz is not infallible and to the majority here, the Shafi' creed is not what they are upon.

However, in making it permissible and according to the Shafi' (Permissible, Valid, but Makruh) and permissible according to the Hanafis, are they essentially allowing what is basically Mutah, given that the man can intend to marry for a week, but not explicitly put it in the marriage contract and so they do not verbally and explicitly agree on it? Ibn Baz and other scholars, as well as the Shafi'is say it is permissible and only Makruh. In fact, others who claim it is Haram still affirm it is permissible and a valid contract.

"Getting married with the intention of divorce is a temporary marriage, and a temporary marriage is an invalid marriage, because it is mut’ah, and mut’ah is haraam by consensus. Valid marriage is where a man gets married with the intention of keeping his wife and staying with her if she proves to be a good wife and he gets along with her, otherwise he may divorce her. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “either you retain her on reasonable terms or release her with kindness” [al-Baqarah 2:229].

And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessing and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah Aal al-Shaykh, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, Shaykh Bakr Abu Zayd.  Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (18/448, 449).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 06:04:37 AM by whoaretheshia »
DISCLAIMER: I AM AWAY UNTIL THE START OF THE NEW YEAR, PM ME IF I OWE YOU A REPLY, MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US, FI AMANILLAH
" O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice.. even if it be against yourselves... So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be jus

whoaretheshia

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 05:58:44 AM »
PS: I am aware of the views of Ibn Uthaymeen and most Hanbalis and Hanafis, however, the fact remains some senior scholars effectively declared temporary marriage as permissible, but not any kind of temporary marriage, but a deceitful kind where the woman isn't even aware of her rights and duties. Furthermore the Sahfi'is also accept it as a Valid contract, and not impermissible, but permissible but Makruh.

The Shafi’is

Imam an-Nawawi quoted Imam Malik as well as Imam al-Awzaa’ee, another Maliki scholar, declaring that although the Nikah contract was valid, the act itself was detestable and hated.
DISCLAIMER: I AM AWAY UNTIL THE START OF THE NEW YEAR, PM ME IF I OWE YOU A REPLY, MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US, FI AMANILLAH
" O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice.. even if it be against yourselves... So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be jus

whoaretheshia

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 06:01:17 AM »
According to Ibn Baz and a number of senior scholars, as well as the Shafi'i Madhab, it is permissible to marry a woman for a short period of time with the intention it will be a temporary marriage, and you will divorce her.  The difference between this and Mutah, which was performed by senior companions even after the death of the Prophet (saw) is that the woman is informed and is not suddenly left without a husband , and knows full well what sort of relationship she is involving herself in. Other than that, there is practically little difference. In fact, the woman may even know you intend to divorce her after a week, but not explicitly make it a condition in the marriage contract, but i will investigate this particular loop hole.
DISCLAIMER: I AM AWAY UNTIL THE START OF THE NEW YEAR, PM ME IF I OWE YOU A REPLY, MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US, FI AMANILLAH
" O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice.. even if it be against yourselves... So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be jus

whoaretheshia

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2017, 06:03:15 AM »
In fact, even the Hanafis accept this form of marriage:

"If, on the other hand, a man sees that the woman and her former husband really want to get back together, therefore with the intention of helping them out, he marries her then divorces her after consummating the marriage, then this will be permissible with the condition that no one knows of his intention."

https://hanafilegalrulings.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/halala-after-divorce.html

In fact, the marriage is Valid and it is permissible according to a number of scholars in the Hanafi Fiqh, if the man and woman know their intention is to marry for a week, or a month, or a year, but do not explicitly stipulate it in the contract. It is clear cut temporary marriage, and the only thing differentiating it is the explicit inclusion in the marital contract:

"If both the man and the woman marrying each other know of each others intention (i.e. that they are getting married for halaala), but at the time of marriage, the condition of halaala is not mentioned, then in this case some ulama (scholars) say that it is not permissible (although, just like in the first scenario, if someone does it, the marriage itself will be valid and the woman will become halaal for her first husband). Other ulama say that such a marriage is permissible. It is therefore better to avoid this."

https://hanafilegalrulings.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/halala-after-divorce.html

(Ahsanul Fataawa: 5/154, Saeed)
(Fataawa Usmani: 2/278, Maktaba Ma’ariful Quran)
(Qaamoosul Fiqh: 2/426, Zamzam Publishers)
(Raddul Muhtaar: 5/51, Darul Ma’rifa)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 06:07:49 AM by whoaretheshia »
DISCLAIMER: I AM AWAY UNTIL THE START OF THE NEW YEAR, PM ME IF I OWE YOU A REPLY, MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US, FI AMANILLAH
" O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice.. even if it be against yourselves... So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be jus

whoaretheshia

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 06:04:15 AM »
" Similarly, if the woman gets married to a man with the intention that after the marriage and its consummation, she will ask for divorce and thereafter get married to her first husband, it will be permissible with the condition that no one knows of her intention."

https://hanafilegalrulings.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/halala-after-divorce.html

(Ahsanul Fataawa: 5/154, Saeed)
(Fataawa Usmani: 2/278, Maktaba Ma’ariful Quran)
(Qaamoosul Fiqh: 2/426, Zamzam Publishers)
(Raddul Muhtaar: 5/51, Darul Ma’rifa)
DISCLAIMER: I AM AWAY UNTIL THE START OF THE NEW YEAR, PM ME IF I OWE YOU A REPLY, MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US, FI AMANILLAH
" O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice.. even if it be against yourselves... So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be jus

Hadrami

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 07:09:14 AM »
His opinion is not even considered valid by majority of sunnis. If it was accepted by all scholars like how shia scholars accept mutah, that would be a start of calamity for the ummah (although i was told it is not anytime anywhere any circumstances like shia mutah). His opinion is even rejected by other salafi 😁

whoaretheshia

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 07:26:58 AM »
His opinion is not even considered valid by majority of sunnis. If it was accepted by all scholars like how shia scholars accept mutah, that would be a start of calamity for the ummah (although i was told it is not anytime anywhere any circumstances like shia mutah). His opinion is even rejected by other salafi 😁

The Hanafis permit a man to marry a woman with the intention he will only marry her for a week. They permit the same for a woman, and in fact, a number of Hanafi scholars even permit both knowing that they have this intention, without explicitly making it part of the marriage contract.

The Shafi'is permit it, and say it is permissible and valid, but ought to be avoided but there is no punishment for it, and it is not a sin.

Then you have heavy weights like ibn Baz, who i admit among the Salafis was in the minority view, but he essentially allowed a form of temporary marriage.

That is a rather big group / chunk of the Sunnis effectively permitting a form of temporary marriage, don't you think?
DISCLAIMER: I AM AWAY UNTIL THE START OF THE NEW YEAR, PM ME IF I OWE YOU A REPLY, MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US, FI AMANILLAH
" O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice.. even if it be against yourselves... So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be jus

Hani

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 08:19:27 AM »
These are random individual opinions, I recall there was a large conference of scholars and they reviewed the evidences for this particular case and deemed it forbidden.

Those individuals who permitted had not thoroughly thought things through it seems nor did they examine from all angles.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hadrami

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 12:15:20 PM »
Shia is so desperate to defend their anytime anywhere any circumstances freesex aka shia mutah which is agreed upon by ALL shia scholars as valid and compare it with odd opinions of tiny minority sunni which is considered invalid and completely rejected by resounding majority. Shias are so desperate. I know you are ashamed of mutah too 😂

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 03:16:11 AM »
These are random individual opinions, I recall there was a large conference of scholars and they reviewed the evidences for this particular case and deemed it forbidden.

Those individuals who permitted had not thoroughly thought things through it seems nor did they examine from all angles.

I agree. And Sunnis don't make taqleed of these scholars. This reminds me the beautiful statement of Imam Malik(rah).

Imam Malik bin Anas (rh) said: “Anyone’s opinion may be accepted or rejected, except the occupant of this grave,” (the grave of the Prophet (SAW)). [al-Bidayah Wan-Nihayah, (14/160)]

However, I would like to comment on the part which says that the scholars said that the marriage contract is valid. I agree that the marriage contract is valid in such a case because, the person isn't  revealing his intention to the woman. So this doesn't effect the marriage contract between them. Meaning they were in a halal(permissible) relationship not a haraam(impermissible) relationship. Eventhough, the person will held accountable by Allah if he divorced as he intended. If he didn't then he won't be held. Wallahu Alam.

And I think that the scholars who erroneously thought that it is permissible based their view on misunderstanding a hadeeth.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Allah has forgiven my followers the evil thoughts that occur to their minds, as long as such thoughts are not put into action or uttered." And Qatada said, "If someone divorces his wife just in his mind, such an unuttered divorce has no effect.[ Sahih al-Bukhari 5269]

Similarly,

Prophet(saws) said:...if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it, then Allah will write a full good deed (in his account) with Him...(Sahih al-Bukhari 6491).

From these reports we find that, a person is not held accountable by Allah(swt) until he acts upon the bad intention. Also that there is possibllity that a person may even abstain from acting on his bad intention. However, these scholars were wrong because this matter is not just between Allah and His slave, wherein the person will not be held accountable until he acts on his bad intention rather this even involves the woman whom he wants to marry too. Hence, marrying with the intention of divorce would be impermissible for that person. But if he does that keeping his intention to himself, then the marriage contract will be valid and it would be considered a halal relation. The couple won't be considered to be in a haraam relation.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 06:42:33 PM »
Who said this is a minority opinion among Sunni fuqaha?

As far as I can see on Sunni Arabic forums, they are saying most agreed with it's validity.

See this link;
http://www.saaid.net/Doat/ehsan/9.htm
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2017, 12:50:53 PM »
The Fiqh Concil of the Islamic World League disallowed this kind of marrioages due to the sinful intention and the unthinkable harm and suffering caused to the wife and her family. [See the resolutions of the Council dated 8/12/2006]

The following is the quote of the issued resolution

منع المجمع الفقهي الإسلامي برابطة العالم الإسلامي في دورته الثامنة عشــرة المنعقــدة بمكة المكرمة في الفترة من 10-14/3/1427هـ الذي يــوافقه 8-12/4/2006م هذا الزواج حين نظر في موضوع: (عقود النكاح المستحدثة) جاء ما يلي: " الزواج بنية الطلاق وهو: زواج توافرت فيه أركان النكاح وشروطه وأضمر الزوج في نفسه طلاق المرأة بعد مدة معلومة كعشرة أيام، أو مجهولة ؛ كتعليق الزواج على إتمام دراسته أو تحقيق الغرض الذي قدم من أجله.
وهذا النوع من النكاح على الرغم من أن جماعة من العلماء أجازوه، إلا أن المجمع يرى منعه ؛ لاشتماله على الغش والتدليس. إذ لو علمت المرأة أو وليها بذلك لم يقبلا هذا العقد. ولأنه يؤدي إلى مفاسد عظيمة وأضرار جسيمة تسيء إلى سمعة المسلمين"

http://islamport.com/k/mjl/6401/53861.htm


Here's two Fatwas from the most popular Sunni websites online for Fatwas about this matter.

Marriage with intention of divorce: They list opinions then conclude it is forbidden and it is forbidden to cheat and trick a woman and it is immoral behavior.
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=3458

Marriage with intention of divorce: The scholars here also announce clearly its prohibition since it is not permanent and is cheating and quote a couple of the highest Islamic councils in the world.
http://islamqa.info/ar/111841

 
MORE IMPORTANTLY, MARRIAGE WITH THE INTENTION OF DIVORCE IS ALLOWED IN THE SHIA MADHAB.

Here's Sistani's Fatwa:

3   السؤال:
رجل طلق زوجته ثلاثاً منذ عشر سنوات وله منها بنت والآن يريد ان يرجعها لعصمته وهي لم تتزوج من بعد طلاقها ، فهل يجوز إيجاد زوج بنية الطلاق ( محلل ) لهم ؟؟ وان كان لا يجوز فماذا الحكم على من اقدم على هذا العمل ؟؟
الفتوى:
يعتبر في زوال التحريم أن يعقد عليها المحلل عقداً دائماً وان يطأها ، والاحوط ان يكون الوطء في القبل ، وان يفارقها بعد ذلك بطلاق او موت وان تنقضي العدة منه ، ولا يضر ان يكون زواجهما لأجل التحليل فقط .

They ask him about a man who divorced his wife three times and wants her back, can she marry another man with the intention of divorce so she may return to him? Sistani says YES.

http://www.alseraj.net/ar/fikh/2/?CPhHJNmPYD1075094372&1&30&1


Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 07:33:13 PM »
The Fiqh Concil of the Islamic World League disallowed this kind of marrioages due to the sinful intention and the unthinkable harm and suffering caused to the wife and her family. [See the resolutions of the Council dated 8/12/2006]

The following is the quote of the issued resolution

منع المجمع الفقهي الإسلامي برابطة العالم الإسلامي في دورته الثامنة عشــرة المنعقــدة بمكة المكرمة في الفترة من 10-14/3/1427هـ الذي يــوافقه 8-12/4/2006م هذا الزواج حين نظر في موضوع: (عقود النكاح المستحدثة) جاء ما يلي: " الزواج بنية الطلاق وهو: زواج توافرت فيه أركان النكاح وشروطه وأضمر الزوج في نفسه طلاق المرأة بعد مدة معلومة كعشرة أيام، أو مجهولة ؛ كتعليق الزواج على إتمام دراسته أو تحقيق الغرض الذي قدم من أجله.
وهذا النوع من النكاح على الرغم من أن جماعة من العلماء أجازوه، إلا أن المجمع يرى منعه ؛ لاشتماله على الغش والتدليس. إذ لو علمت المرأة أو وليها بذلك لم يقبلا هذا العقد. ولأنه يؤدي إلى مفاسد عظيمة وأضرار جسيمة تسيء إلى سمعة المسلمين"

http://islamport.com/k/mjl/6401/53861.htm


Here's two Fatwas from the most popular Sunni websites online for Fatwas about this matter.

Marriage with intention of divorce: They list opinions then conclude it is forbidden and it is forbidden to cheat and trick a woman and it is immoral behavior.
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=3458

Marriage with intention of divorce: The scholars here also announce clearly its prohibition since it is not permanent and is cheating and quote a couple of the highest Islamic councils in the world.
http://islamqa.info/ar/111841

 
MORE IMPORTANTLY, MARRIAGE WITH THE INTENTION OF DIVORCE IS ALLOWED IN THE SHIA MADHAB.

Here's Sistani's Fatwa:

3   السؤال:
رجل طلق زوجته ثلاثاً منذ عشر سنوات وله منها بنت والآن يريد ان يرجعها لعصمته وهي لم تتزوج من بعد طلاقها ، فهل يجوز إيجاد زوج بنية الطلاق ( محلل ) لهم ؟؟ وان كان لا يجوز فماذا الحكم على من اقدم على هذا العمل ؟؟
الفتوى:
يعتبر في زوال التحريم أن يعقد عليها المحلل عقداً دائماً وان يطأها ، والاحوط ان يكون الوطء في القبل ، وان يفارقها بعد ذلك بطلاق او موت وان تنقضي العدة منه ، ولا يضر ان يكون زواجهما لأجل التحليل فقط .

They ask him about a man who divorced his wife three times and wants her back, can she marry another man with the intention of divorce so she may return to him? Sistani says YES.

http://www.alseraj.net/ar/fikh/2/?CPhHJNmPYD1075094372&1&30&1

Please focus on the topic. Where is the proof majority of Sunni scholars deemed it invalid?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

GreatChineseFall

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2018, 12:42:12 AM »
Who said this is a minority opinion among Sunni fuqaha?

As far as I can see on Sunni Arabic forums, they are saying most agreed with it's validity.

See this link;
http://www.saaid.net/Doat/ehsan/9.htm

Maybe they mean it is valid dhahiran, but invalid batinan.
Or it is valid in this world, but you will be punished in the Hereafter for it.

GreatChineseFall

Re: Ibn Baz and marrying with the intention of divorcing
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2018, 09:02:19 PM »
I just realized my reply could be taken seriously. Obviously it wasn't

 

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