`Iraq was great before the Shia government

[Ameen]

Any country where Shia are not in government and are the opposition, that country is healthy and stable because Shias will not use means of violence and threatening behaviour to have their demands met and use what ever means necessary to overthrow or make the government unsuccessful. But as soon as Shias come in to authority and power the Sunni opposition will turn towards bloodshed, mayhem and murder and will not rest. They don't give a damn. This is the true story and picture. Reality and facts are clear throughout history to prove this. But my dear brothers always like to twist and turn things around and do their best to make Shias look bad as much as they can.

That's very similar to the history of the Yahood in Germany. They were very peaceful, but as soon as they started getting financially stronger the gentiles began to attack them. Likewise, the same case is with the Qadianis. They were very peaceful people in Pakistan. As soon as they started getting stronger they got themselves under pressure.

Well subhanallah, if this is how you think then this also fits in and suits the Muslims. Take a look at the Muslim history.

Secondly why would Shias wait to get stronger??? Why not use the same method and tactics as I.S.I.S, Taliban, Sipa e Sahaba, Lashkar e Jagvi etc???

[Hani]

You think those groups have methods and tactics? They're a bunch of unrefined savage fools.

[sameer]

Any country where Shia are not in government and are the opposition, that country is healthy and stable because Shias will not use means of violence and threatening behaviour to have their demands met and use what ever means necessary to overthrow or make the government unsuccessful. But as soon as Shias come in to authority and power the Sunni opposition will turn towards bloodshed, mayhem and murder and will not rest. They don't give a damn. This is the true story and picture. Reality and facts are clear throughout history to prove this. But my dear brothers always like to twist and turn things around and do their best to make Shias look bad as much as they can.

you are absolutely presenting wrong pictures of your rafidha brothers, i am from pakistan and i can bet you the rafidha are very very powerful in every aspect of life, they hold all the major posts especially in arm forces, nd all govt institutions and never hesitate using their authority against sunnis, especially in muharram when the jaloos are observed on 10th of muharam but the rafidha in our area (who are nt more than 1k in population), do matams twice in this month just to show off their power by blocking all the street and roads with barriers nd containers, nd surprisingly this all happens not with the govt orders but with the help of their arm rafidhi brigadiers who always support thm in any case..

[Hani]

Pakistan will regret offering Rafidah positions in the armed forces, they'll literally occupy you guys very soon.

[sameer]

Secondly why would Shias wait to get stronger??? Why not use the same method and tactics as I.S.I.S, Taliban, Sipa e Sahaba, Lashkar e Jagvi etc???

dont paint all with same brush.. lashkar e jangvi is a terrorist as like sipa e muhammad (rafidha terrorist party) and both are banned but sipa e sahaba is a political and has nothing to do with lashker e jhangvi , it takes participate in general election as other rafidha parties do.. and 2ndly you have to make difference b/w pakistani taliban (TTP) which are involved in suicide bombings but on the other hand afghanistani taliban are fighting against US and NATO arm forces for the sake of their country.. 

[Rationalist]

Well subhanallah, if this is how you think then this also fits in and suits the Muslims. Take a look at the Muslim history.

All I am saying is due to the hostiles committed against the 12ers, the 12er in response have taken advance of that and also adopted some radical views. Views such as all 12ers are momin even if they sin, but  all non-12ers are not momin no matter how good they are.

Secondly why would Shias wait to get stronger???

In Pakistan 12ers have high positions in the media, government sects, land ownership, business etc. As far as I can see most are well educated, and have good paying jobs.

Why not use the same method and tactics as I.S.I.S, Taliban, Sipa e Sahaba, Lashkar e Jagvi etc???

Not sure. I am not from Pakistan. As for ISIS its the 12er Shia Iraqi military who fled from them.

[Furkan]

A twelver told me that one who sins openly isn't a mumin.

[Rationalist]

A twelver told me that one who sins openly isn't a mumin.

According to the theology of Shaykh Mufid and Sharif Murtaza they are still momins but not complete momins.

[sameer]

According to the theology of Shaykh Mufid and Sharif Murtaza they are still momins but not complete momins.

not complete means an half momin which is not possible according to the definition of shia momin..in other words, both mufid and murtaza declaring thm nasibis while hiding themselves under "taqiya"..

[Rationalist]

Still they consider a sinful 12er to be higher in status than a pious Sunni. As for Sunni the 12ers say no matter what they do they can never become momins.

[Furkan]

The same twelver told me that a sunni who never heard of imamate, can enter heaven.

[Taha]

^ Only if they are of legitimate birth.

I was told that a bastard shouldn't bother converting to Islam because they won't go to heaven no matter what. Their parents' sin is punished on them.

[Hadrami]

^ Only if they are of legitimate birth.

I was told that a bastard shouldn't bother converting to Islam because they won't go to heaven no matter what. Their parents' sin is punished on them.

there is a narration where imam said non shia were born as bastards. It has something to do with syaitan playing with their backside. That was such an awful narration. Knowing how stuffed up shiaism is, I won't be surprised if shia consider that hadith authentic.

[Furkan]

We are going off topic, but oh God WHAT AMI READING HERE?

Shiites just mess up everything, they even messed up in fabricating hadiths which should sound reasonable.

[Ameen]

Any country where Shia are not in government and are the opposition, that country is healthy and stable because Shias will not use means of violence and threatening behaviour to have their demands met and use what ever means necessary to overthrow or make the government unsuccessful. But as soon as Shias come in to authority and power the Sunni opposition will turn towards bloodshed, mayhem and murder and will not rest. They don't give a damn. This is the true story and picture. Reality and facts are clear throughout history to prove this. But my dear brothers always like to twist and turn things around and do their best to make Shias look bad as much as they can.

you are absolutely presenting wrong pictures of your rafidha brothers, i am from pakistan and i can bet you the rafidha are very very powerful in every aspect of life, they hold all the major posts especially in arm forces, nd all govt institutions and never hesitate using their authority against sunnis, especially in muharram when the jaloos are observed on 10th of muharam but the rafidha in our area (who are nt more than 1k in population), do matams twice in this month just to show off their power by blocking all the street and roads with barriers nd containers, nd surprisingly this all happens not with the govt orders but with the help of their arm rafidhi brigadiers who always support thm in any case..

You are absolutely right. But they do not misuse their authority and power. They do not use means of violence and threatening behaviour, to be heard or to have their demands met. They belive in collective interest and will not say or do anything to harm Muslims or damage the good name of Islam.

They make individual and personal sacrifices to keep and maintain unity. Otherwise retaliation and revenge is nothing difficult for them. It's right in front of you. Their Marje e Taqleed constantly call for patience and tolerance and keep the situation calm and stop it from escalating. Lets all pray and hope they don't get fed up and lose their patience. Otherwise all hell will break loose.

[Rationalist]

The same twelver told me that a sunni who never heard of imamate, can enter heaven.

Then what about the ahadith they use about dying from jahliyah for not recognizing the 12th Imam ?

[Rationalist]

^ Only if they are of legitimate birth.

I was told that a bastard shouldn't bother converting to Islam because they won't go to heaven no matter what. Their parents' sin is punished on them.

But being born out of a pleasure based Muta is okay ?

[Furkan]

He said it's bcuz those sunnis can't be taken responsible since they never heard of the shiite concept of imamate.

[MissyB786]

what people think of Erdogan? Dunno if I should make a separate thread for him. but he seems like he is doing good things for their country.

[Ameen]

The same twelver told me that a sunni who never heard of imamate, can enter heaven.

Then what about the ahadith they use about dying from jahliyah for not recognizing the 12th Imam ?

What about the Hadith they use??? Excuse me??? What about the Hadith??? What is your point??? Such Hadith doesn't exist or is weak??? What are you on about???