Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?

[Rationalist]

Was Mutah permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time or not? Answer, yes it was. Why? Due to and for exceptional circumstances. Why was Mutah suddenly prohibited? What was the reason for it? These are the main questions and the important part of the discussion which is being avoided. WHY?

You know the answer to these questions, as you have provided evidences from the Sunni hadith books. Do I need to repeat what you already stated? However, what about the 12er Shia books? Are you certian in the 12er Shia history this was a conditional marriage? If it was where are the hadith? Do they not exist. Is 12er Shia just a sect which has no backbone and like to play with the differences among the sahaba?

[iceman]

You know the answer to these questions, as you have provided evidences from the Sunni hadith books. Do I need to repeat what you already stated? However, what about the 12er Shia books? Are you certian in the 12er Shia history this was a conditional marriage? If it was where are the hadith? Do they not exist. Is 12er Shia just a sect which has no backbone and like to play with the differences among the sahaba?

These are cheap and low shots from you. We have much more than a backbone. We don't play with the differences among the Sahaba. In fact you do that. Anyways, where is your backbone? I don't need to provide you with anything because the matter is crystal clear.

Once again and here it comes, Mutah was permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time. Now you claim it was prohibited by the Prophet (s) and all I want to know is WHY?

What was the reason and purpose for the Prophet (s) to prohibit it? Surely there must have been a reason for banning/disallowing it? This is where the conversation should move forward. The ball is on your court and you need to serve rather than throwing TANTRUMS.

If you feel you're loosing the argument then don't take it out on me. It's not my fault and problem if you've come to a dead end and can't digest reality and facts. The burden to provide reado and proof lies upon you. As far as we are concerned it was permissible and practiced then and it should be now for exactly the same reasons.

All the cheap and low tactics have been pulled and played by hadarami. Now you've run out of excuses. Either answer or own up.

[iceman]

Once again;

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139:

Narrated Abdullah: We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."

Mut'ah Banned by Umar

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 43:

Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: The Verse of muta was revealed in Allah's Book, so we performed it with Allah's Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Qur'an to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet prohibit it till he died. But the man (omar) just expressed what his own mind suggested

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:

Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (muta of Hajj and muta of women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3248:

Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet pbuh and during the time of Abi Bakr and 'Umar

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3249:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3261:

'Urwa b. Zabair reported that 'Abdullah b. Zubair stood up (and delivered an address) in Mecca saying: Allah has made blind the hearts of some people as He has deprived them of eyesight that they give religious verdict in favor of temporary marriage, while he was alluding to a person (Ibn 'Abbas). Ibn Abbas called him and said: You are an uncouth person, devoid of sense. By my life, Mut'a was practised during the lifetime of the leader of the pious (he meant Allah's Messenger, pbuh), and Ibn Zubair said to him: just do it yourselves, and by Allah, if you do that I will stone you with your stones. Ibn Shihab said. Khalid b. Muhajir b. Saifullah informed me: While I was sitting in the company of a person, a person came to him and he asked for a religious verdict about Mut'a and he permitted him to do it.

Mut'ah During Life of Rasulullah

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3252:

Sabra Juhanni reported: Allah's Messenger pbuh permitted temporary marriage for us. So I and another person went out and saw a woman of Bana 'Amir, who was like a young long-necked she-camel. We presented ourselves to her (for contracting temporary marriage), whereupon she said: What dower would you give me? I said: My cloak. And my companion also said: My cloak. And the cloak of-my companion was superior to my cloak, but I was younger than he. So when she looked at the cloak of my companion she liked it, and when she cast a glance at me I looked more attractive to her. She then said: Well, you and your cloak are sufficient for me. I remained with her for three nights, and then Allah's Messenger pbuh said: He who has any such woman with whom he had contracted temporary marriage, he should let her off.

[iceman]

In a famous sermon,the second caliph 'Umar banned mutah after the death of the Prophet (PBUH) with the following words:

"Two mutah were practiced during the time of the Prophet [i.e. temporary marriage and mutat al-hajj],but I forbid both of them and will punish anyone who practices either."(tafsir al-Razi,volume2,page167)

[iceman]

The first to make Mut’ah haraam was Umar”
Kitab al-Awail, page 1 by Hilal al-Hasan al-Askari (Madina, Saudi Arab)

Indeed, the Sahaba deemed Umar to be wrong when it came to this issue. We read in Tafseer Kabeer page 41:

Ali said: “Had Umar not banned Mut’ah then the only person to fornicate would be a wretched person.”
Tafseer al-Kabeer, Volume 4 Page 41

In Tafseer Kabeer:
Umar said: “Two Mut’ah’s existed during Rasulullah’s lifetime and I now prohibit both of them.”
Tafseer al Kabeer, by Imam Fakhr ul-Razi, Page 42 & 43

[iceman]

We read in Zaad al Maad, Volume 2 page 205:
“Those who claim the verse was abrogated should be asked of the report in Sahih Muslim wherein Jabir stated ‘we contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and during the time of Abu Bakr until ‘Umar forbade it in the case of ‘Amr b. Huraith“.

[iceman]

Imam of Ahle Sunnah Abu Auwanah Yaqoob bin Ishaq bin Ibrahim al-Nisaburi al-Isfraeini (d. 316 H) popularly known as Abu Auwanah records the following in his book Mustakhraj Abi Auwanah, Volume 7 page 159 Hadith 2713:

“Yaqoob bin Sufyan – Amr bin Asim – Hamaam – Qatadah – Abi Nadhra said: ‘I said to Jabir bin Abdullah that Ibn Abbas permits Mut’ah while Ibn al-Zubair prohibits it. He (Jabir) replied: ‘It is through me that this hadith has been circulated, I performed Mut’ah along with Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) and a verse was revealed regarding it but then when Umar bin al-Khatab become the caliph, he addressed the people and said: ‘The Quran is the same Quran, the apostle is the same apostle, and there existed two types of Mut’ah at the time of Allah’s apostle, I forbid both and will punish whoever performs them, one is the Mut’ah of Hajj, surely you have to separate your Hajj from your Umra, and the other is Mut’ah al-Nisa, if I catch any person who is married for an appointed duration (Mut’a), I will certainly stone him (to death).”

[Rationalist]

These are cheap and low shots from you. We have much more than a backbone. We don't play with the differences among the Sahaba. In fact you do that. Anyways, where is your backbone? I don't need to provide you with anything because the matter is crystal clear.

okay if you have a backbone then where are the 12er Shia hadith? Why are you being a coward? Please provide it.

I don't need to provide you with anything because the matter is crystal clear.

Where is it crystal clear in the 12er Shia hadith books that Muta is done in exceptional circumstances.

[Rationalist]

Once again;

Once again not even a single 12er Shia hadith. As I said you 12er Shia are like jellyfish. You just know how to sting others, but when its comes to bringing proof from your own books, you have no backbone.

[Rationalist]

==

Ali said: “Had Umar not banned Mut’ah then the only person to fornicate would be a wretched person.”
Tafseer al-Kabeer, Volume 4 Page 41

This hadith attributed to Ali is fabricated. It has a broken chain.

[Rationalist]

Iceman I am not here to argue whether Muta is haraam or halaal. There are Sunni hadith which state is halaal as presented by you. This does not make a loser in anyway. I am  aware that the sahaba differed in this matter. However, what I am interested is do the 12er Shia have hadith where it states Muta is an exception marriage.

[Hadrami]

First of all don't call me an idiot. WATCH AND CONTROL THAT MOUTH OF YOURS.

Answer what is being asked. If you can't then stop jumping up and down or diverting attention.

I can call a sheep as it is, an idiot. You are being asked why youre angry when someone ask you about mutah and then answer mutah is halal bla bla bla. My question is not about halal & haram idiot. My question why shia are always angry & defensive when it comes to mutah if its really halal & virtuous act? Start answering the question

[iceman]

I can call a sheep as it is, an idiot. You are being asked why youre angry when someone ask you about mutah and then answer mutah is halal bla bla bla. My question is not about halal & haram idiot. My question why shia are always angry & defensive when it comes to mutah if its really halal & virtuous act? Start answering the question

So you call a sheep what it is. OK. Point taken. You're talking to a sheep which are idiots and that is me. So you must be a sheep as well since your talking to me. Or have you learned the language of sheep, that's why you're talking to me. 😊

I wasn't angry, I only pointed out your behaviour and attitude when it comes to asking, discussing etc. Manners, which you certainly don't have any. And I'm not surprised either. I answered what you asked now it's your turn and you're avoiding.

People are watching, they are reading and listening, and you're not doing yourself or your faith, what ever that might be, any favours by avoiding, distracting, jumping up and down, running away from the main discussion.

You can't get the better of me no matter how hard you try with these immature and childish gaming tactics. What's your age? Your behaviour and attitude tells me a lot.

This is a question to HADRAMI,

Mutah was permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time, it is claimed by HADRAMI and his faith, Ahle Sunah, that Mutah was prohibited by the Prophet (s) during his lifetime. I want to know WHY? What was the reason and purpose for the Prophet (s) to all of a sudden ban what is permissible and practiced? WHY?

Can you provide me any kind of evidence from the Qoran that what was permissible and practiced was all of a sudden banned and why?

This is my ultimate challenge to HADRAMI and his faith and belief to step forward and be a man and answer me those questions so we can forward this discussion.

I and the people want clear and straight answers.So come on, enough distraction and diversion from you. Lets here it hot shot. own up. Remember people are listening and watching.

I don't want any links etc. I want you HADRAMI or in fact any of you to step up to me. Let me see what you really have. I believe you must have something for me and the people. After all, all the ranting and the raving, the jumping and hopping, all the noise and tantrums is from your side and end.

[iceman]

okay if you have a backbone then where are the 12er Shia hadith? Why are you being a coward? Please provide it.
Where is it crystal clear in the 12er Shia hadith books that Muta is done in exceptional circumstances.

It is CRYSTAL CLEAR and here is the evidence,

BOTH PARTIES 100% AGREE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT IT WAS PERMISSIBLE AND PRACTICED DURING THE PROPHET'S (S)  TIME.

There's your evidence. Now you need to put a stop to your gaming tactics of avoiding and diverting. The evidence is right there and in front of you. Here it is again incase you've missed due to your ignorance.

MUTAH WAS PERMISSIBLE AND PRACTICED DURING THE PROPHET'S TIME.

Either deny this and only then we go into a completely different direction. Only then the discussion takes a different turn. I will not let you get away with these gaming tactics.

Allah allowed it (mutah) and it was permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time. We go on from here. WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED FROM HERE. This is where our discussion moves on.

[iceman]

Iceman I am not here to argue whether Muta is haraam or halaal. There are Sunni hadith which state is halaal as presented by you. This does not make a loser in anyway. I am  aware that the sahaba differed in this matter. However, what I am interested is do the 12er Shia have hadith where it states Muta is an exception marriage.

Thank you very much for bringing something new and fresh to the discussion. Now we're talking about whether it (mutah) is Halal or Haram. There is a difference in opinion now. Is this correct?

First let me give you my perspective so that this doesn't come into yours or anyone's mind that I avoid.

Mutah is permissible and practiced according to the Shia just as it was permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time.

Why is it permissible and practiced according to the Shia? Exactly for the same reasons and purpose when it was permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time. And that is,

EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES

obviously.

Now evidence, proof, justification etc.

Here is a question we need to ask ourselves based on information and statistics due to reality and facts.

And here comes the question;

Is Mutah practiced in and by the Shia community OPENLY And COMMONLY?

Is Mutah practiced in and by the Shia community REGULARILY. and ORDINARILY just as Nikah, permanent marriage?

Go and do a survey, look into things openly, fairly and justly and you will come up with the information.

The answer is NO. I was asked a very simple and straightforward question about Mutah concerning my self and my sisters, daughters etc.

Being straightforward and open, I haven't engaged in Mutah, neither has any member of my family. As a Shia I am not aware of anyone who has engaged in Mutah and I don't know any Shia who has.

This doesn't mean we are ashamed of Mutah or we think it's embarrassing to engage or it is seen as something terrible and horrible or we think it's Haram.

I need to clear any misunderstanding here. Mutah is permissible and practiced according to the Shia just as it was in the Prophet's (s) time and for exactly the same reasons and purpose. And because it is not practiced within and by the Shia on a common and regular basis clearly tells you it's based on exceptional circumstances.

Otherwise it would be practiced commonly and openly.

Mutah is there only for exceptional circumstances and is for those who need it based on there situation and condition. Those few and I repeat few who do engage based on the criteria and procedure are not committing Haram or engaging in any sin. Surely not according to Allah and his Messenger (s).

The rulers who suddenly merged out of the blue after the Prophet (s), may be it's Haram according to them and those who engage in Mutah might be sinning according to them but definitely not according to Allah and his Messenger (s).

Mutah is better and good for you rather than getting carried away based on desperate and difficult circumstances and engaging in Haram and sinful acts.

[iceman]

According to Islam a man can marry more than once without ending his first marriage, without divorcing his first wife. It is permissible for a man to have upto 4 wives at one time. This is also Sunah of the Prophet (s).

Why is this disliked within the Muslim community? A lot of men will not remarry while keeping their first marriage because it will cause headache and heartache. Their first wife and her relations will not accept this.

For a man to go for a second wife is like going through he'll or a never ending nightmare. Most men will not go for a second wife because they will upset or ruin their first marriage. Those who do or think of doing will be threatened with or will go through divorce and will be looked at disgracefully.

If they have children from their first marriage they will not have the same relationship with those children. Their life will be turned upside down if they even think of going for a second wife let alone third or fourth. Why is something permissible in Islam but is so disliked amongst the community. And if it is thought of threats and abuse will start. And if done then world war three has just begun.

[Rationalist]

Thank you very much for bringing something new and fresh to the discussion. Now we're talking about whether it (mutah) is Halal or Haram. There is a difference in opinion now. Is this correct?

First let me give you my perspective so that this doesn't come into yours or anyone's mind that I avoid.

Mutah is permissible and practiced according to the Shia just as it was permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time.

Why is it permissible and practiced according to the Shia? Exactly for the same reasons and purpose when it was permissible and practiced during the Prophet's (s) time. And that is,

EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES

obviously.

Now evidence, proof, justification etc.

Here is a question we need to ask ourselves based on information and statistics due to reality and facts.

And here comes the question;

Is Mutah practiced in and by the Shia community OPENLY And COMMONLY?

Is Mutah practiced in and by the Shia community REGULARILY. and ORDINARILY just as Nikah, permanent marriage?

Go and do a survey, look into things openly, fairly and justly and you will come up with the information.

The answer is NO. I was asked a very simple and straightforward question about Mutah concerning my self and my sisters, daughters etc.

Being straightforward and open, I haven't engaged in Mutah, neither has any member of my family. As a Shia I am not aware of anyone who has engaged in Mutah and I don't know any Shia who has.

This doesn't mean we are ashamed of Mutah or we think it's embarrassing to engage or it is seen as something terrible and horrible or we think it's Haram.

I need to clear any misunderstanding here. Mutah is permissible and practiced according to the Shia just as it was in the Prophet's (s) time and for exactly the same reasons and purpose. And because it is not practiced within and by the Shia on a common and regular basis clearly tells you it's based on exceptional circumstances.

Otherwise it would be practiced commonly and openly.

Mutah is there only for exceptional circumstances and is for those who need it based on there situation and condition.

Can you show me Hadith from 12er Shia books where it's for exceptional circumstances only?

[iceman]

Can you show me Hadith from 12er Shia books where it's for exceptional circumstances only?

I'm absolutely sure my questions can't be answered. Now what are we left with? Oh yes, me answering and dealing with everything you throw out.

Can you tell me if Mutah isn't down to exceptional circumstances then what is it for? Is Mutah a common practice according to the Shia? Do you see Mutah done on a regular basis by the Shia community? Is Mutah an ordinary act amongst the Shia? You and I both know that the obvious answer is NO.

Shia or Suni books might be very important to you but not to me. I believe in what is absolute and legitimate. And this is what's absolute and legitimate that MUTAH was PERMISSIBLE and PRACTICED during the Prophet's (s) time.

Now you need to provide me, as well as the rest of the Muslim Ummah, why MUTAH was PROHIBITED and the reason and purpose of why it was suddenly DISALLOWED. Forget about the books and the Scholars from both sides and concentrate on the book of Allah and on logic and reason.

Why on earth was a permissible act prohibited? I need to know. We need to know. On addition to this,

We have the armed forces of Muslim countries and you have married men who are called out to duty in the state of emergency and have to work in extremely disastrous conditions and difficult circumstances. Be it air, land or sea. The Army, the navy or the air force. Their length and time of duty is unknown. What do they do in such circumstances? Where does their needs go?

You have widow/er. They have children from their deceased partner. What do you expect them to do? Get married again? Marriage has consequences along with responsibility and commitment. One can't engage in such responsibility and commitment all over again because their circumstances doesn't allow it.

I can give you many many examples as such which drastically effect people in all sectors of life. What do you expect people to do? During the Prophet's (s) time you had the Prophet (s) to look after the people, to protect their rights and full fill their needs. After his (s) death rulers got in, gained authority and power and assumed they knew better and started to make changes. 

[Khaled]

May Allah forgive some of the brothers for their behavior, the akhlaq here is just...

Anyway, inshallah maybe I can still have some sort of discussion with iceman after all of this.  Since there has been so many posts since my last reply, I'm just going to not quote and reply to the general points.

1.  Comparing Mut'ah to polygamy does not work for multiple reasons.  Reason #1, Mut'ah is highly recommended in the Twelver Madhhab while polygamy ranges from recommended to merely mubah for mainstream Muslims, therefore you are comparing apples with oranges.  Reason #2, polygamy is in fact widely practiced among mainstream and Ja'fari Muslims all over the world.  In fact, it is practiced by non-Muslims all over the world as world.  There may be some stigma, but it is no where near to the level of Mut'ah.  Take for example the practice that some women do where they themselves will marry off their husbands to a second wife.  Now try to imagine that happening with a woman marrying her husband off for a Mut'ah marriage.  Such a thought is practically inconceivable.
2.  Comparing Mut'ah to secretly marrying a second wife is again, comparing apples to oranges.  Marrying a second wife secretly ranges from mubah to makrooh to haram among mainstream Muslims; no mainstream Muslim would claim there is reward in secretly marrying a second wife.
3.  Mut'ah being allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's lifetime doesn't help your case as ALL thing that were prohibited by the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم were technically practiced during his lifetime.  One example that Shi'as continuously bring up is Taraweeh.  We both agree that is was practiced during the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم's lifetime, yet we disagree on the ruling afterwards.  You believe he prohibited it and it is an evil practice, much like our understanding of Mut'ah.
4.  Your appeal to Bukhari and Muslim is interesting.  Do you believe those two authors (including ALL Sunni books of hadeeth that mention this discussion) included these narrations because they believed Mut'ah to be halal?  Have you ever read the other narrations in the chapter?

Inshallah some of the people here clean up their manners.  I am with the Shi'is here that claiming that Mut'ah is prostitution is akin to accusing the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and ibn Abbas رضي الله عنهما of endorsing prostitution والعياذ بالله.  I would ban anyone who said that if I was a mod here.

[iceman]

May Allah forgive some of the brothers for their behavior, the akhlaq here is just...
I
Anyway, inshallah maybe I can still have some sort of discussion with iceman after all of this.  Since there has been so many posts since my last reply, I'm just going to not quote and reply to the general points.

1.  Comparing Mut'ah to polygamy does not work for multiple reasons.  Reason #1, Mut'ah is highly recommended in the Twelver Madhhab while polygamy ranges from recommended to merely mubah for mainstream Muslims, therefore you are comparing apples with oranges.  Reason #2, polygamy is in fact widely practiced among mainstream and Ja'fari Muslims all over the world.  In fact, it is practiced by non-Muslims all over the world as world.  There may be some stigma, but it is no where near to the level of Mut'ah.  Take for example the practice that some women do where they themselves will marry off their husbands to a second wife.  Now try to imagine that happening with a woman marrying her husband off for a Mut'ah marriage.  Such a thought is practically inconceivable.
2.  Comparing Mut'ah to secretly marrying a second wife is again, comparing apples to oranges.  Marrying a second wife secretly ranges from mubah to makrooh to haram among mainstream Muslims; no mainstream Muslim would claim there is reward in secretly marrying a second wife.
3.  Mut'ah being allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's lifetime doesn't help your case as ALL thing that were prohibited by the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم were technically practiced during his lifetime.  One example that Shi'as continuously bring up is Taraweeh.  We both agree that is was practiced during the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم's lifetime, yet we disagree on the ruling afterwards.  You believe he prohibited it and it is an evil practice, much like our understanding of Mut'ah.
4.  Your appeal to Bukhari and Muslim is interesting.  Do you believe those two authors (including ALL Sunni books of hadeeth that mention this discussion) included these narrations because they believed Mut'ah to be halal?  Have you ever read the other narrations in the chapter?

Inshallah some of the people here clean up their manners.  I am with the Shi'is here that claiming that Mut'ah is prostitution is akin to accusing the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and ibn Abbas رضي الله عنهما of endorsing prostitution والعياذ بالله.  I would ban anyone who said that if I was a mod here.

First of all thank you very much for a positive reply based on a pleasant attitude. I wanted a civilised and constructive discussion. And finally someone has stepped forward with exactly that. The attitude and behaviour, the manners (ikhlaq) of certain individuals is disappointing but that's it.

End the end of the day everyone's saying, doing, attitude, behaviour, manners, actions and deeds lie with them. It reflects them and their character, nature and upbringing. And they will be held responsible and  accountable.

I will get back to you.