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Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?

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Hadrami

Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« on: December 04, 2017, 07:54:54 AM »
we know shia often defend mut'ah just to have a go at Umar and they say it is highly recommended to practise this "sunnah". However when discussing with shia men or women, all of them always get offended  when asked how many times they have done it with other shia men or women. Its like as if mutah is halal but haram at the sametime. Whats the real deal?

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 01:18:43 PM »
we know shia often defend mut'ah just to have a go at Umar and they say it is highly recommended to practise this "sunnah". However when discussing with shia men or women, all of them always get offended  when asked how many times they have done it with other shia men or women. Its like as if mutah is halal but haram at the sametime. Whats the real deal?

It's not about what you ask, it's about your intentions. The way you ask and put forward and how you start off threads clearly tells your mischievous intentions and behaviour.

You don't want to know and understand just trying your best to undermine, humiliate and insult Shiaism and Shias.  And you try to do it in a civilised fashion and manner.

Let me answer your question just to prevent you from misleading others about Shiaism, what does Halal mean? Or if something is allowed/permissible what does this mean? Does it mean you have to do it? You must do it? One has to engage in it?

There are reasons and a purpose to Halal and Haram and what is permissible and allowed and what not. Educate yourself before.......

Hadrami

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 05:01:41 AM »
Let me answer your question just to prevent you from misleading others about Shiaism, what does Halal mean? Or if something is allowed/permissible what does this mean? Does it mean you have to do it? You must do it? One has to engage in it?
why do you always love to sidetrack? Mutah is one of the most virtuous "sunnah" according to your sect. It is not just halal, permissible, but highly recommended. Shia who practise it will get huge amount of rewards. So again, the question is, knowing all those things about mutah, why is that shia always respond as if it is one of the most wicked, filthy, promiscuous act they could ever done? So whats the deal?

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 07:33:15 PM »
why do you always love to sidetrack? Mutah is one of the most virtuous "sunnah" according to your sect. It is not just halal, permissible, but highly recommended. Shia who practise it will get huge amount of rewards. So again, the question is, knowing all those things about mutah, why is that shia always respond as if it is one of the most wicked, filthy, promiscuous act they could ever done? So whats the deal?

It's all about what and how you ask and what and how you present or put forward. This can change things immensely. Take a good look at your starting post, what and how you asked. I'm not going to repeat or spell it out for you. This tells once nature and intention.

As far as Mutah is concerned go and do some research on it. There are plenty of sites that can provide you with information on it. Rather than having the intention of toying and playing. You're not a child and I ain't stupid either.


Khaled

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 09:44:38 PM »
As far as Mutah is concerned go and do some research on it. There are plenty of sites that can provide you with information on it. Rather than having the intention of toying and playing. You're not a child and I ain't stupid either.

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Akhi, I notice that you don't like the tone that the OP asked his question, but because I am interested in what he was asking, I was hoping you can have the conversation with me instead of him.

My research, may Allah guide you and I to that which He loves and approves of, has led me to believe that Mut'ah is a highly recommended act in the Ja'fari Madhhab.  Yet, me experience with Ja'faris, and your posts are an example of this, tend to show a very defensive nature to the act.  The question that non-Ja'faris tend to have is, if the act is recommended; then why isn't it more prevalent in Ja'fari culture?  Why is it that simply asking about it gets this extremely defensive reaction?

I hope you understand my question and my concerns, brother.

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 10:45:15 PM »
وروي (أن المؤمن لا يكمل حتى يتمتع
And narrated to me(narrator): "Indeed the believer is not complete till he does mutah." ( Man la yahdhuruhul faqih, Sheikh Sadooq, vol 3, page 466, hadith number 4613]

« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 10:58:06 PM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 02:33:16 AM »
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Akhi, I notice that you don't like the tone that the OP asked his question, but because I am interested in what he was asking, I was hoping you can have the conversation with me instead of him.

My research, may Allah guide you and I to that which He loves and approves of, has led me to believe that Mut'ah is a highly recommended act in the Ja'fari Madhhab.  Yet, me experience with Ja'faris, and your posts are an example of this, tend to show a very defensive nature to the act.  The question that non-Ja'faris tend to have is, if the act is recommended; then why isn't it more prevalent in Ja'fari culture?  Why is it that simply asking about it gets this extremely defensive reaction?

I hope you understand my question and my concerns, brother.

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Firstly you both are using the method of asking. But there is a difference, you want to know and he wants to toy. Or whatever his intentions are. Evidence, take a look at your posts. Look at yours and how you have asked and put forward then take a look at his. Read his first and opening post.

Khaled

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 02:42:17 AM »
Firstly you both are using the method of asking. But there is a difference, you want to know and he wants to toy. Or whatever his intentions are. Evidence, take a look at your posts. Look at yours and how you have asked and put forward then take a look at his. Read his first and opening post.

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

That's why I said ignore him and have the conversation with me.  I personally find it very strange that the Ja'fari Madhhab promotes Mut'ah as such a virtuous deed and yet, discussions about it result in a very defensive response.  Can you think of any Sunan that are on the level of Mut'ah for the Ja'afri Madhhab that the rest of the Muslims would be so defensive about?  Especially when discussing with other Muslims?
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Rationalist

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 05:48:46 AM »
There two fiqhi opinions for the 12er Shia. One is its Sunnah, and the other is that it is Mubah.


As for the 12er Shia fiqh we have contradictions such as Muta being conditional marriage or a Sunnah. Which one is it?


From Risalat Al Mutah by Sh. Mufid,

And by this isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Musa b. `Ali b. Muhammad al-Hamdani from a man he named from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: There is not a man who does mut`a then does ghusl but that Allah creates from every drop (of water) that drops from him seventy angels who seek forgiveness for him until the day of the resurrection, and who curse the avoider of it until the Hour rises. And this is but a little of a lot in this meaning

One must also be careful when doing it as there are also narrations which state that one should not do it if they are needless of it, such as,

Muhammad b. Ya`qub from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Ibn Abi `Umayr from `Ali b. Yaqtin. He said: I asked Abu ‘l-Hasan عليه السلام about mut`a. So he said: What do you have to do with that when Allah has made you needless of it.

And in another narration, the Imam speaks of the need to preserve the image of the Shia,

And from them from Sahl from `Ali b. Asbat and Muhammad b. al-Husayn all from al-Hakam b. Miskeen from `Ammar. He said: Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said to me and Sulayman b. Khalid: I have forbidden mut`a upon you two by me so long as you remain in Madina, for you have increased your entering in upon me and I fear that they take you and it be said: These are the companions of Ja`far

Both narrations from Wasail Shia under the chapter, "Dislike of mut`a when one is free of need from it and it involves abomination or the corruption of the women"

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 08:01:41 PM »
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

That's why I said ignore him and have the conversation with me.  I personally find it very strange that the Ja'fari Madhhab promotes Mut'ah as such a virtuous deed and yet, discussions about it result in a very defensive response.  Can you think of any Sunan that are on the level of Mut'ah for the Ja'afri Madhhab that the rest of the Muslims would be so defensive about?  Especially when discussing with other Muslims?

If one asks for the intention and purpose of 'to get to know' like yourself then one can tell and explain. If the intention and purpose is to attack and undermine only then you will see the defensive side, not against Mut'ah but the one who is attacking.

Anyways, lets start off with my understanding of Mut'ah. Marriage is of two kinds, temporary and permanent. You either engage in a full time/permanent martial contract/agreement which is known as Nikah or a part time/temporary martial contract/agreement which is known as Mut'ah.

Both, Nikah and Mut'ah, have rules and regulations and there are circumstances attached to them. There is also a procedure/method concerning both. I believe that both were a common practice during the Prophet's (s) time and are according to Qoran and Sunah. But this will require evidence.

But first we need to understand by getting to know. Agreeing and accepting something is a later stage or you can say are different. If you understand something doesn't necessarily mean you accept and agree. Nikah is common and known so the issue is about Mut'ah.

A few questions first. Once you hit puberty, a girl starts to turn into a woman and a boy into a man. You have sexual desire which kicks in and grows. This is to do with nature and comes natural. Sexual desire or sexual appetite is based on what your body needs. It's a necessity of the body be it human or animal.

Now a general question how does one full fill this need? Yes, patience and control does play a major factor in all areas and parts of life. But as you grow older and time goes by how does one full fill this need? Your partner has past away and one has become a widow/widower, When it comes to your Sexual desire/appetite how does one full fill this need and you have children from your deceased partner.

I can give you many more examples.  There is only one way and that is Nikah/marriage. Hang on and wait a minute, marriage is a serious business. Marriage is not just about full filling Sexual need (appetite/desire). It's about finding the right partner, it's about starting a family, it's about building a house together and turning it into a home, it's about having children, it's about responsibility/commitment etc, it's about going through life and then growing old together.

So my question is, it doesn't matter who you are, what your situation/condition is and what ever the circumstances are, how does one full fill their sexual need (appetite/desire)? Not everyone is ready for marriage and taking on the responsibility and everything else that comes with it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:09:55 PM by iceman »

Optimus Prime

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 09:39:43 PM »
If one asks for the intention and purpose of 'to get to know' like yourself then one can tell and explain. If the intention and purpose is to attack and undermine only then you will see the defensive side, not against Mut'ah but the one who is attacking.

Anyways, lets start off with my understanding of Mut'ah. Marriage is of two kinds, temporary and permanent. You either engage in a full time/permanent martial contract/agreement which is known as Nikah or a part time/temporary martial contract/agreement which is known as Mut'ah.

Both, Nikah and Mut'ah, have rules and regulations and there are circumstances attached to them. There is also a procedure/method concerning both. I believe that both were a common practice during the Prophet's (s) time and are according to Qoran and Sunah. But this will require evidence.

But first we need to understand by getting to know. Agreeing and accepting something is a later stage or you can say are different. If you understand something doesn't necessarily mean you accept and agree. Nikah is common and known so the issue is about Mut'ah.

A few questions first. Once you hit puberty, a girl starts to turn into a woman and a boy into a man. You have sexual desire which kicks in and grows. This is to do with nature and comes natural. Sexual desire or sexual appetite is based on what your body needs. It's a necessity of the body be it human or animal.

Now a general question how does one full fill this need? Yes, patience and control does play a major factor in all areas and parts of life. But as you grow older and time goes by how does one full fill this need? Your partner has past away and one has become a widow/widower, When it comes to your Sexual desire/appetite how does one full fill this need and you have children from your deceased partner.

I can give you many more examples.  There is only one way and that is Nikah/marriage. Hang on and wait a minute, marriage is a serious business. Marriage is not just about full filling Sexual need (appetite/desire). It's about finding the right partner, it's about starting a family, it's about building a house together and turning it into a home, it's about having children, it's about responsibility/commitment etc, it's about going through life and then growing old together.

So my question is, it doesn't matter who you are, what your situation/condition is and what ever the circumstances are, how does one full fill their sexual need (appetite/desire)? Not everyone is ready for marriage and taking on the responsibility and everything else that comes with it.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 09:41:25 PM by Optimus Prime »

Khaled

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 10:29:29 PM »
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

*snip*
I believe that both were a common practice during the Prophet's (s) time and are according to Qoran and Sunah. But this will require evidence.

I hope you know, I'm not really interested in the validity of Mut'ah according to the Ja'fari madhhab and its' evidences.  There are ruling in each Madhhab (including my own) which I don't agree with or find to have weak evidences.  Hopefully, the discussion doesn't get sidetracked by this.

Quote
But first we need to understand by getting to know. Agreeing and accepting something is a later stage or you can say are different. If you understand something doesn't necessarily mean you accept and agree. Nikah is common and known so the issue is about Mut'ah.

I'm unfortunately getting the feeling that you are not going to address what I asked...

Quote
*snip*
So my question is, it doesn't matter who you are, what your situation/condition is and what ever the circumstances are, how does one full fill their sexual need (appetite/desire)? Not everyone is ready for marriage and taking on the responsibility and everything else that comes with it.

Unfortunately, instead of actually addressing my question, it seems you are trying to explain the reasons for Mut'ah in a VERY defensive way.  Again, I ask you, if you believe that this actions a) is recommended in the Sharee'ah, and b) is the BEST option for the scenarios you provided, then why the defensive nature to the questioning?

I believe that you realize, may Allah bless you, that what you're saying would never be accepted in any culture, religious or otherwise.  Which is why, even in cultures that are predominately Ja'afari, Mut'ah is still strictly taboo.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 10:30:35 PM by Khaled »
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2017, 09:05:33 AM »
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

I hope you know, I'm not really interested in the validity of Mut'ah according to the Ja'fari madhhab and its' evidences.  There are ruling in each Madhhab (including my own) which I don't agree with or find to have weak evidences.  Hopefully, the discussion doesn't get sidetracked by this.

I'm unfortunately getting the feeling that you are not going to address what I asked...

Unfortunately, instead of actually addressing my question, it seems you are trying to explain the reasons for Mut'ah in a VERY defensive way.  Again, I ask you, if you believe that this actions a) is recommended in the Sharee'ah, and b) is the BEST option for the scenarios you provided, then why the defensive nature to the questioning?

I believe that you realize, may Allah bless you, that what you're saying would never be accepted in any culture, religious or otherwise.  Which is why, even in cultures that are predominately Ja'afari, Mut'ah is still strictly taboo.

I am answering your question but in detail. Lets talk about something which is in Sharia and is accepted by all. But when it comes to practicing it is not accepted by the majority or practiced. A man is allowed to have upto four wives at one time. Now tell me once married which wife or how many wives will allow her husband to have a second wife happily?

The husband will go off and remarry for what ever reason and the disturbance and discomfort this causes is unimaginable. I can give you many examples. This is not accepted by the vast majority and no woman will allow her husband to remarry. I'm afraid that is the culture and tradition of Muslims.

As far as Mutah is concerned and the Shia community, firstly there lack of knowledge, understanding and awareness regarding Mutah. Secondly there are good and bad people in every community, when something is misused and or abused it will send the wrong message and feeling and this will cause and have a negative effect.

Optimus Prime

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2017, 03:57:26 PM »
Mu'tah is a haalalised version of prostitution. 8)

Ijtaba

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 04:57:28 PM »
Mu'tah is a haalalised version of prostitution. 8)

So your saying when Prophet (s.a.w.w) permitted his Companions Mu'tah for 3 nights he actually permitted haalalised version of prostitution for 3 nights?

Narrated Salama bin Al-Akwa:
“In the year of Autas, Allah’s Messenger permitted a temporary marriage for three nights, but he prohibited it afterwards.” [Sahih Muslim]
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 05:01:30 PM by Ijtaba »

Optimus Prime

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 05:25:02 PM »
Permitting something in exceptional circumstances is not the same thing as outright ecouraging, and endorsing the perverted practice. Your scholars for dollars are guilty for opening the window of Mu'tah for everyone on a full time basis.

Ijtaba

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2017, 05:27:04 PM »
Permitting something in exceptional circumstances is not the same thing as outright ecouraging, and endorsing the perverted practice. Your scholars for dollars are guilty for opening the window of Mu'tah for everyone on a full time basis.

Like Hadhrat Abdullah ibn Abbas (r.a)?

Optimus Prime

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2017, 05:29:00 PM »
Like Hadhrat Abdullah ibn Abbas (r.a)?

ibn Abbas was guilty of making a gross mistake. We do not hide from that.

If your read the narration carefuly, he only permitted under dire circumstances unlike your scholars for dollars, and your Imams. It wasn't a free license for anyone to pop their sprogs. 'Ali himself condemned him for this sinful mistake.

Ijtaba

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2017, 05:53:23 PM »
ibn Abbas was guilty of making a gross mistake. We do not hide from that.

If your read the narration carefuly, he only permitted under dire circumstances unlike your scholars for dollars, and your Imams. It wasn't a free license for anyone to pop their sprogs. 'Ali himself condemned him for this sinful mistake.

Permitting Mutah under dire circumstances is also gross/sinful mistake?

After Imam Ali (a.s) condemned ibn Abbas (r.a) for his (r.a) sinful mistake did ibn Abbas retract from his view/opinion of Mutah being halal in dire circumstances? If yes, then please provide me the evidence for this.

Optimus Prime

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2017, 06:05:55 PM »
Permitting Mutah under dire circumstances is also gross/sinful mistake?

After Imam Ali (a.s) condemned ibn Abbas (r.a) for his (r.a) sinful mistake did ibn Abbas retract from his view/opinion of Mutah being halal in dire circumstances? If yes, then please provide me the evidence for this.

Paaji, this topic has been discussed on these forums.

Use the search option.

 

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