Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?

[Hadrami]

Inshallah some of the people here clean up their manners.  I am with the Shi'is here that claiming that Mut'ah is prostitution is akin to accusing the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and ibn Abbas رضي الله عنهما of endorsing prostitution والعياذ بالله.  I would ban anyone who said that if I was a mod here.

Will you tell other sunni who say taqiyya is for serial liar that they are insulting Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم? Shia loves comparing what Amr ibn Yasir did with their taqiyya too? Do you think he would endorse shia taqiyya? I dont think so.

The mut'ah that was halal is not the same mut'ah (freesex) that shia are practising. Dont give the false impression that they are the same mutah that ibn Abbas practise. As for expecting shia to answer, im sure they wont, because for years none have. Deep down they know shia mutah is
filthy practise 😆

[Rationalist]

I'm absolutely sure my questions can't be answered. Now what are we left with? Oh yes, me answering and dealing with everything you throw out.

This is a topic for 12er Shia view. If you have questions start you own topic.

Can you tell me if Mutah isn't down to exceptional circumstances then what is it for? Is Mutah a common practice according to the Shia? Do you see Mutah done on a regular basis by the Shia community? Is Mutah an ordinary act amongst the Shia? You and I both know that the obvious answer is NO.

To be honest I don't know the 12er Shia view. In fact, the hadith I have read from your books an it gives you an open ticket with rewards to do muta. Its not an exceptional marriage. Its an encouraged sunnah in your books. So again please show me your view supported by 12er Shia hadith.

Shia or Suni books might be very important to you but not to me.

Then how do you follow the 12 Imams? Its comes from the 12er Shia books, so the hadith should be important. Aql is a fallible thought which can be rational or subjective.

Now you need to provide me,

Open a new topic.

[Khaled]

Will you tell other sunni who say taqiyya is for serial liar that they are insulting Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم? Shia loves comparing what Amr ibn Yasir did with their taqiyya too? Do you think he would endorse shia taqiyya? I dont think so.

There is no doubt that the claim that what Ammaar bin Yaasir رضي الله عنهما did is like the Ja'fari concept of taqiyyah is completely false.  Much like their claim that the 12 Imams not fighting for their right to be the Imam is equivalent to what the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم did at Hudaybiyyah.

The mut'ah that was halal is not the same mut'ah (freesex) that shia are practising. Dont give the false impression that they are the same mutah that ibn Abbas practise. As for expecting shia to answer, im sure they wont, because for years none have. Deep down they know shia mutah is filthy practise 😆

I was wondering what about the Ja'fari concept of Mut'ah is in your opinion worse than what was practiced by the Jahili Arabs?  From my understanding, they have conditions and other fiqhi rulings to prevent it from being "freesex", unlike the Jahili Arabs, who just used to practice it as a cultural practice without restrictions.

[iceman]

May Allah forgive some of the brothers for their behavior, the akhlaq here is just...

Anyway, inshallah maybe I can still have some sort of discussion with iceman after all of this.  Since there has been so many posts since my last reply, I'm just going to not quote and reply to the general points.

1.  Comparing Mut'ah to polygamy does not work for multiple reasons.  Reason #1, Mut'ah is highly recommended in the Twelver Madhhab while polygamy ranges from recommended to merely mubah for mainstream Muslims, therefore you are comparing apples with oranges.  Reason #2, polygamy is in fact widely practiced among mainstream and Ja'fari Muslims all over the world.  In fact, it is practiced by non-Muslims all over the world as world.  There may be some stigma, but it is no where near to the level of Mut'ah.  Take for example the practice that some women do where they themselves will marry off their husbands to a second wife.  Now try to imagine that happening with a woman marrying her husband off for a Mut'ah marriage.  Such a thought is practically inconceivable.
2.  Comparing Mut'ah to secretly marrying a second wife is again, comparing apples to oranges.  Marrying a second wife secretly ranges from mubah to makrooh to haram among mainstream Muslims; no mainstream Muslim would claim there is reward in secretly marrying a second wife.
3.  Mut'ah being allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's lifetime doesn't help your case as ALL thing that were prohibited by the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم were technically practiced during his lifetime.  One example that Shi'as continuously bring up is Taraweeh.  We both agree that is was practiced during the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم's lifetime, yet we disagree on the ruling afterwards.  You believe he prohibited it and it is an evil practice, much like our understanding of Mut'ah.
4.  Your appeal to Bukhari and Muslim is interesting.  Do you believe those two authors (including ALL Sunni books of hadeeth that mention this discussion) included these narrations because they believed Mut'ah to be halal?  Have you ever read the other narrations in the chapter?

Inshallah some of the people here clean up their manners.  I am with the Shi'is here that claiming that Mut'ah is prostitution is akin to accusing the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and ibn Abbas رضي الله عنهما of endorsing prostitution والعياذ بالله.  I would ban anyone who said that if I was a mod here.

First of all I didn't and wasn't comparing Mutah to Polygamy. I don't think you've read some of the posts. I was asked why Shia see Mutah as permissible but when asked about whether they've practiced it or not or how many times they or their women have done it then the Shia start to get embarrassed.

Certain people wanted to know why something was considered permissible (Mutah) by the Shia and they are quick to verbally defend and justify it but when speak or ask about practicing it then Shias get angry and see Mutah as something shameful, disgraceful and embarrassing.

This is what I commented on. I wasn't comparing Polygamy to Mutah but just put forward an example that this is also permissible but when it comes to practicing then it is seemed as something disgraceful, embarrassing and troublesome. That is going for a second wife. Forget about the third and don't even think about the 4th.

This was my point that having a second wife is permissible and also Sunah of the Prophet (s) but when it comes to practicing, going for a second wife is like starting world war 3. Why is Polygamy permissible but when it comes to practicing then it is shameful, embarrassing and troublesome for the majority.

This is the point Hadraami skipped as well as many others.

[Optimus Prime]

Assalāmu `alaikum Warahmatullāhi Wabarakatuh brother Khaled.

If you search for brother Ebn Hussein's post, he has posted fatwas by Shia's high profile scholars giving permission for perverts to indulge in wide-range of sex episodes. After reading them then you'll come to the realisation, that only a nymphomaniac would entertain such perverted inhibitions.

Alhamdulillah, many 'Ulema have drawn parlallels between prostitution, and Mu'tah.

The Prophet (SAW) making an exception for 3 days is one thing, but the Shia scholars who allow it whenever, and whereveris not the same thing. Remember the Prophet (SAW) allowed many practices, as I mentioned before, that we would deem unacceptable today: from consumption of alchohol, slavery, marrying one's stepmother after their father has deceased; to even marrying very young girls at tender ages. All these were practices were common to Jahaliyah Arabs. Some of these customs survived, but with refined conditions, and others were abolished. The fact the Prophet (SAW) unconditionally forbade Mu'tah with the exception of a one-off occasion speaks volume it is a practice, that's not for the faintest of hearts.

Those who use Mu'tah as a free license to get around indeed satanic perverts. Technically their Iman hangs on a thread, but in reality, their Imaan is extinguished by their wanton, flagrant acts of immorality of the worst kind. They must understand the enormity and notoriety of their misdeeds of sexual perversion and immorality of the worst kind. While these old louts have their legs hanging in the grave, they are impervious of death stalking them. Such are people are no doubt the Shias.

[Khaled]

First of all I didn't and wasn't comparing Mutah to Polygamy. I don't think you've read some of the posts. I was asked why Shia see Mutah as permissible but when asked about whether they've practiced it or not or how many times they or their women have done it then the Shia start to get embarrassed.

Certain people wanted to know why something was considered permissible (Mutah) by the Shia and they are quick to verbally defend and justify it but when speak or ask about practicing it then Shias get angry and see Mutah as something shameful, disgraceful and embarrassing.

This is what I commented on. I wasn't comparing Polygamy to Mutah but just put forward an example that this is also permissible but when it comes to practicing then it is seemed as something disgraceful, embarrassing and troublesome. That is going for a second wife. Forget about the third and don't even think about the 4th.

This was my point that having a second wife is permissible and also Sunah of the Prophet (s) but when it comes to practicing, going for a second wife is like starting world war 3. Why is Polygamy permissible but when it comes to practicing then it is shameful, embarrassing and troublesome for the majority.

This is the point Hadraami skipped as well as many others.

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Unfortunately brother, I think you may have missed the intention of the post.  The OP, Rationalist and myself have all repeatedly stated that we aren't here to discuss whether it is mubah or not, we have are here to discuss why the Ja'fari madhhab finds it to be such a virtuous act while it is considered simultaneously taboo to even discuss, let alone engage in.

Here is hadrami's unfortunately worded original post:

we know shia often defend mut'ah just to have a go at Umar and they say it is highly recommended to practise this "sunnah".

He called you out for "sidetracking" and trying to prove the legality of Mut'ah literally in the first reply

why do you always love to sidetrack? Mutah is one of the most virtuous "sunnah" according to your sect. It is not just halal, permissible, but highly recommended. Shia who practise it will get huge amount of rewards. So again, the question is, knowing all those things about mutah, why is that shia always respond as if it is one of the most wicked, filthy, promiscuous act they could ever done? So whats the deal?

Here is me attempting to get the conversation on track

My research, may Allah guide you and I to that which He loves and approves of, has led me to believe that Mut'ah is a highly recommended act in the Ja'fari Madhhab.  Yet, me experience with Ja'faris, and your posts are an example of this, tend to show a very defensive nature to the act.  The question that non-Ja'faris tend to have is, if the act is recommended; then why isn't it more prevalent in Ja'fari culture?  Why is it that simply asking about it gets this extremely defensive reaction?

Here is brother Rationalist saying he is not here to discuss the legality of Mut'ah

Iceman I am not here to argue whether Muta is haraam or halaal. There are Sunni hadith which state is halaal as presented by you. This does not make a loser in anyway. I am  aware that the sahaba differed in this matter. However, what I am interested is do the 12er Shia have hadith where it states Muta is an exception marriage.

Inshallah we can agree to disagree on the legality of such a marriage, and discuss whether it is highly recommended in the first place.  Maybe we misunderstood and Mut'ah isn't as virtuous  as we thought in the Ja'fari madhhab.

بارك الله فيك وأحسن الله إليك

[Khaled]

Assalāmu `alaikum Warahmatullāhi Wabarakatuh brother Khaled.

وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

If you search for brother Ebn Hussein's post, he has posted fatwas by Shia's high profile scholars giving permission for perverts to indulge in wide-range of sex episodes. After reading them then you'll come to the realisation, that only a nymphomaniac would entertain such perverted inhibitions.

I do wonder if such an argument would persuade you if a Shi'a posted random fatwas about suckling adults.

Alhamdulillah, many 'Ulema have drawn parlallels between prostitution, and Mu'tah.

Like who for example?

The Prophet (SAW) making an exception for 3 days is one thing, but the Shia scholars who allow it whenever, and whereveris not the same thing. Remember the Prophet (SAW) allowed many practices, as I mentioned before, that we would deem unacceptable today: from consumption of alchohol, slavery, marrying one's stepmother after their father has deceased; to even marrying very young girls at tender ages. All these were practices were common to Jahaliyah Arabs. Some of these customs survived, but with refined conditions, and others were abolished. The fact the Prophet (SAW) unconditionally forbade Mu'tah with the exception of a one-off occasion speaks volume it is a practice, that's not for the faintest of hearts.

Are you trying to convince me that Mut'ah is haram?

Those who use Mu'tah as a free license to get around indeed satanic perverts. Technically their Iman hangs on a thread, but in reality, their Imaan is extinguished by their wanton, flagrant acts of immorality of the worst kind. They must understand the enormity and notoriety of their misdeeds of sexual perversion and immorality of the worst kind. While these old louts have their legs hanging in the grave, they are impervious of death stalking them. Such are people are no doubt the Shias.

So I have yet to see how the 12er concept is prostitution, and how it is any worse than what the Jahili Arabs practiced.  Just a lot of rhetoric...

[Optimus Prime]

Brother Khaled, if you review the entire thread, do some simple research, and apply your mind, Insh'Allah you'll understand the alikeness between the two. If not, then there is nothing more to discuss. It's a futile discussion to have at best.

Alhamdulillah, neither of us engage in Mu'tah, and believe in its the prophetic prohibition. That's the main thing.

[Khaled]

Brother Khaled, if you review the entire thread, do some simple research, and apply your mind, Insh'Allah you'll understand the alikeness between the two. If not, then there is nothing more to discuss. It's a futile discussion to have at best.

Alhamdulillah, neither of us engage in Mu'tah, and believe in its the prophetic prohibition. That's the main thing.

I can't find any threads, just a blog post which shows a fatwaa where a Shi'i scholar says it is permissible to do Mut'ah with a whore.

So you didn't answer if "whoaretheshia" posted a suckling adults post if you would be convinced that "Sunnism" allows this.  You didn't answer the scholars who stated Mut'ah was akin to prostitution.  Nor did you show me how Mut'ah is akin to prostitution.

[Optimus Prime]

I can't find any threads, just a blog post which shows a fatwaa where a Shi'i scholar says it is permissible to do Mut'ah with a whore.

So you didn't answer if "whoaretheshia" posted a suckling adults post if you would be convinced that "Sunnism" allows this.  You didn't answer the scholars who stated Mut'ah was akin to prostitution.  Nor did you show me how Mut'ah is akin to prostitution.

I believe my posts are self explanatory. If you believe otherwise, we'll just leave it at that.

I didn't mention any names because I refuse to spoon feed you brother. Keep persevering, and you'll stumble upon something of significance sooner rather later.

Raising the consensus of a few scholars who permitted such an act to establish mahram relation between two people does not deter from the very reality, that the practice of Mu'tah between two people is hardly different than a random couple having a one night stand, and/or becoming sex buddies for as long as they desire.

The very complexion of such a comparison is retarded at best.

I've nothing more to contribute to this thread.

[iceman]

Brother Khaled this is what you said;

"Unfortunately brother, I think you may have missed the intention of the post.  The OP, Rationalist and myself have all repeatedly stated that we aren't here to discuss whether it is mubah or not, we have are here to discuss why the Ja'fari madhhab finds it to be such a virtuous act while it is considered simultaneously taboo to even discuss, let alone engage in.

Note this bit,

"why the Ja'fari madhhab finds it to be such a virtuous act while it is considered simultaneously taboo to even discuss, let alone engage in"

First of all do the vast amount (majority) of Shia scholars say that this is a virtuous act? I'm not interested in one or two Shia Scholars or books because Scholars vary in opinion and sometimes to great length.

For example, this is off topic/subject but just to prove a point,

there is a joint statement from Ayatollah Khaminei and Sistani that Shias should refrain from such actions and acts based on custom/tradition which give Shias a bad name or where Shias are looked at strangely. Some where along those lines. For example, to commemorate Imam Hussain's martyrdom in a particular fashion where you batter and bloody yourself.

On the other hand you have Ayatollah Khorasani and Shirazi who allow such Azadari and deem it permissible or even necessary and part of the Shia faith and belief. This is how much scholars can differ in fatwa, statement and opinion.

There is also another example, Ali yun Waliyullah, scholars even greatly differ on this too. Some say it is part of the Azaan and Iqamat and others say it is not.

Back to the topic. One needs to understand fully and completely about Any Fatwa or statement given by a scholar. For example, 'Mutah is a virtuous act' What does this mean? Virtuous act like Nimaz eTahajut, Nimaz r Shab? No, absolutely not. Where everyone and anyone should be free to do and engage.

Mutah is a virtuous act but for who? And why? Those with exceptional circumstances depending on their situation and condition where one fears or eventually and secretly indulges in Haram/sinful acts it is highly recommended and a virtuous act with rewards from refraining from Haram and sinful acts and deeds.

There is always a reason and purpose to something. Don't take things at face value or look at just the bold and large print. There is the small print as well. Things are advertised to get and gain attention but then you have,

'terms and conditions apply bla bla bla and etc etc etc.'

If Mutah was a virtuous and rewarding act in the Ja'fari Madhhab like saum and salah for instance then people would engage in it openly and commonly. It would be a regular act and practice, which it is not.

Once again Mutah is there for those who feel the urge and need. Those with extreme circumstances and in difficult conditions. Those who most definitely know that they will end up doing something sinful/Haram.

Those who don't have the knowledge and understanding is one thing but to deliberately try to point score and make the other sect look bad based on sectarian hatred is another.

[Khaled]

I believe my posts are self explanatory. If you believe otherwise, we'll just leave it at that.

I haven't seen a single explanation of how Mut'ah=prostitution.  I have seen a lot of deflecting without bringing any evidence; reminds me of when asking a Ja'fari to prove Imamah...

I didn't mention any names because I refuse to spoon feed you brother. Keep persevering, and you'll stumble upon something of significance sooner rather later.

So when someone asks you for a reference, you refuse because you consider that "spoonfeeding?"  I didn't ask you for an ayah or a hadeeth any one can look up; I asked you for a Muslim scholar who considered Mut'ah to be the same or similar to prostitution.

Raising the consensus of a few scholars who permitted such an act to establish mahram relation between two people does not deter from the very reality, that the practice of Mu'tah between two people is hardly different than a random couple having a one night stand, and/or becoming sex buddies for as long as they desire.

Or any different than marrying with the intent to divorce...

I've nothing more to contribute to this thread.

With all due respect, you didn't contribute anything

[Khaled]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

First of all do the vast amount (majority) of Shia scholars say that this is a virtuous act? I'm not interested in one or two Shia Scholars or books because Scholars vary in opinion and sometimes to great length.

This is what I'm trying to get at; maybe I'm wrong and its not a recommended act in the Ja'fari madhhab.  Yet, I have never come across a Ja'fari scholar who discourages Mut'ah, or says that it is anything less than mustahabb.  Perhaps you will show me a scholar who does, or you can show Rationalist a hadeeth that say Mut'ah is only in certain circumstances.

For example, this is off topic/subject but just to prove a point,

*sigh*

there is a joint statement from Ayatollah Khaminei and Sistani that Shias should refrain from such actions and acts based on custom/tradition which give Shias a bad name or where Shias are looked at strangely. Some where along those lines. For example, to commemorate Imam Hussain's martyrdom in a particular fashion where you batter and bloody yourself.

On the other hand you have Ayatollah Khorasani and Shirazi who allow such Azadari and deem it permissible or even necessary and part of the Shia faith and belief. This is how much scholars can differ in fatwa, statement and opinion.

There is also another example, Ali yun Waliyullah, scholars even greatly differ on this too. Some say it is part of the Azaan and Iqamat and others say it is not.

I don't know where to begin.  First of all, you are right, this is off topic.  Second of all, I'm amazed at this level of contradiction considering a) you follow infallible Imams, b) you are so critical of the Sunni madhhabs; but that's not our topic.  Thirdly, if you wanted to prove your point, you could've shown a statement by an Ayatollah saying "you shouldn't do Mut'ah in certain situations because..." as that is our discussion at hand.

Back to the topic. One needs to understand fully and completely about Any Fatwa or statement given by a scholar. For example, 'Mutah is a virtuous act' What does this mean? Virtuous act like Nimaz eTahajut, Nimaz r Shab? No, absolutely not. Where everyone and anyone should be free to do and engage.

Virtuous as in it is mustahabb, as in one is rewarded for doing it.  As far is it being better than Tahajjud (is that what you are saying?) and the other prayer (again, I apologize, I can't tell what you are saying); my understanding is that it is WAY better than those things.  My understanding is that doing it four times well get you into heaven on the same leve as the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم.  Can you possibly say that about the prayers you mentioned (or anything else really)?

Mutah is a virtuous act but for who? And why? Those with exceptional circumstances depending on their situation and condition where one fears or eventually and secretly indulges in Haram/sinful acts it is highly recommended and a virtuous act with rewards from refraining from Haram and sinful acts and deeds.

Finally, a response that actually addresses the topic.  Problem is, this seems to be your personal explanation.  Is there any reference that one has to be in exceptional circumstances for it be a virtuous act?  One hadeeth, statement of an Imam, fatwa of a Marji'... anything...

If Mutah was a virtuous and rewarding act in the Ja'fari Madhhab like saum and salah for instance then people would engage in it openly and commonly. It would be a regular act and practice, which it is not.

Once again Mutah is there for those who feel the urge and need. Those with extreme circumstances and in difficult conditions. Those who most definitely know that they will end up doing something sinful/Haram.

Those who don't have the knowledge and understanding is one thing but to deliberately try to point score and make the other sect look bad based on sectarian hatred is another.

I don't hate Shi'as, and I think you can see with how I've responded with Hadrami and Opitmus Prime, I am VERY fair in Ja'fari/Mainstream Muslim discussions.

Problem is the rampant contradictions between what you are saying, and what we read Shi'a scholars say, and what the ahadeeth and statements of the Imams claim.  The fact that it is not practiced in a widespread way like fasting and salah is exactly the point of this thread; if it is in fact something which can lead me to heaven, which is it treated like such a taboo subject.  The answer I got from you is it is a circumstantial thing.  I am willing to accept that; now, can you provide any evidence that this is the case in the Ja'fari Madhhab?

بارك الله فيك وأحسن الله إليك

[muslim720]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, exceptional circumstances. This is exactly what Mutah is for. It's not a common thing or ordinary practice within Shia. You've answered it yourself. Why use something, manipulate it then blow it out of proportion and try to paint a bad picture about the Shia.

Brother, I do not wish to burden you with all these hadiths - in other words, you are not required to answer for them - but please do not tell me that mutah is something of an "exceptional" nature and that we use it to "paint a bad picture about the Shia".

The Prophet said, “The man who contracts Mutah once will be saved from the Hellfire. One who contracts it twice will be in the company of virtuous men [in Paradise]. And the one who contracts it three times will be my companion in the highest level of Paradise.” (Al-Kafi)

The Prophet said, “The men and women who die without performing Mutah even once in their lives will appear on the Day of Judgment with their ears and nose cut and [their faces] deformed.” (Al-Kafi)

Imam Jafar as-Sadiq narrated from the Prophet that “one third of the body is saved from the Hellfire if one contracts mutah once. Two thirds of the body is saved if one contracts Mutah twice, and the whole body is saved from Hell if one contracts Mutah three times.” (Al-Kafi)

It is narrated that once the Prophet was sitting among his companions and the discussion came to the topic of mutah. The Prophet said, “Do you know what is the reward of mutah?” The companions answered, “No,” The Prophet then said, “Jibraeel just came to me and said, ‘0 Muhammad, Allah sends His blessings to you and commands you to instruct your Ummah to engage in the practice of Mutah since this is the practice of [Allah’s] virtuous servants.” (Al-Kafi)

“One who engages in Mutah once attains the status of Imam al-Hussain. One who engages in it twice becomes equal in status to Imam al-Hasan. The one who performs it three times reaches the position of Imam Ali. And he who practices it four times acquires the level and position [equal to that] of the Prophet.” (Al-Kafi)

[MuslimAnswers]

This is what I'm trying to get at; maybe I'm wrong and its not a recommended act in the Ja'fari madhhab.  Yet, I have never come across a Ja'fari scholar who discourages Mut'ah, or says that it is anything less than mustahabb.  Perhaps you will show me a scholar who does, or you can show Rationalist a hadeeth that say Mut'ah is only in certain circumstances.

The issue is of course, that 12er Shias do practice Mut'ah on quite a normal scale, and Shia men and women discuss it and joke about it often, so the stonewalling in front of us Sunnis is quite strange.

There are other analogous situations: Like for Muslims in general when we talk among ourselves most of us do protrude a hatred of Israel. Now, if we get very defensive and act as if it almost does not happen in our circles [when confronted by outside critics], this is the height of silliness since the proof of our attitudes is vast. Thus, we either we change course or defend the general Israel-hatred. There are no two ways about it.

[iceman]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

This is what I'm trying to get at; maybe I'm wrong and its not a recommended act in the Ja'fari madhhab.  Yet, I have never come across a Ja'fari scholar who discourages Mut'ah, or says that it is anything less than mustahabb.  Perhaps you will show me a scholar who does, or you can show Rationalist a hadeeth that say Mut'ah is only in certain circumstances.

*sigh*

I don't know where to begin.  First of all, you are right, this is off topic.  Second of all, I'm amazed at this level of contradiction considering a) you follow infallible Imams, b) you are so critical of the Sunni madhhabs; but that's not our topic.  Thirdly, if you wanted to prove your point, you could've shown a statement by an Ayatollah saying "you shouldn't do Mut'ah in certain situations because..." as that is our discussion at hand.

Virtuous as in it is mustahabb, as in one is rewarded for doing it.  As far is it being better than Tahajjud (is that what you are saying?) and the other prayer (again, I apologize, I can't tell what you are saying); my understanding is that it is WAY better than those things.  My understanding is that doing it four times well get you into heaven on the same leve as the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم.  Can you possibly say that about the prayers you mentioned (or anything else really)?

Finally, a response that actually addresses the topic.  Problem is, this seems to be your personal explanation.  Is there any reference that one has to be in exceptional circumstances for it be a virtuous act?  One hadeeth, statement of an Imam, fatwa of a Marji'... anything...

I don't hate Shi'as, and I think you can see with how I've responded with Hadrami and Opitmus Prime, I am VERY fair in Ja'fari/Mainstream Muslim discussions.

Problem is the rampant contradictions between what you are saying, and what we read Shi'a scholars say, and what the ahadeeth and statements of the Imams claim.  The fact that it is not practiced in a widespread way like fasting and salah is exactly the point of this thread; if it is in fact something which can lead me to heaven, which is it treated like such a taboo subject.  The answer I got from you is it is a circumstantial thing.  I am willing to accept that; now, can you provide any evidence that this is the case in the Ja'fari Madhhab?

بارك الله فيك وأحسن الله إليك

Wa Alaykumus Salaam. This is really getting very long and uneccesarily. Don't we have any sense? Yes we do. Does logic mean anything? Yes it does. Are we bright or dull? We are bright. Are we clever or clumsy? We are clever. And so on and so forth.

When it comes to the alphabet do we use the word 'alphabet' or do we start off from A B C..... all the way up to Z each and every time we mean and talk about the alphabet.

When it comes to getting from A to B are signs and directions not enough or do we need to be taken or driven from A to B each and every time?

For heaven's sake, for crying out loud 2 and 2 is 4. Hens lay eggs, they do not have babies and so on and so forth. An intelligent and sensible just relies on reality and facts. Through sense and logic and signs and directions are more than enough to understand and figure things out but only for the wise man.

I believe we are intelligent and wise. Then why are we asking for things in black and white, then no we actually want it in colour. Then this, that and the other.

I will continue this.

[Khaled]

Wa Alaykumus Salaam. This is really getting very long and uneccesarily.

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Don't you think that the reason this thread has gotten so long is because you're not addressing the contents of the thread?  You were called out several times for beating around the bush and not discussing the issues brought up.  What this does is create more issues, and we now have several NEW issues that you have yet to address; making the discussing even longer.  So lets try to summarize this and make it as concise as possible:

1) What is the ruling for Mut'ah in the Ja'fari madhhab?
2) If it is at least mustahabb, why is it so taboo in Ja'fari communities?
3) Is there any fatwas or ahadeeth which mention that Mut'ah is for certain circumstances?  As you know, the fatwas we read and the ahadeeth that are quoted always seem to imply that the virtue of the act is unrestricted.
4) Do you believe that Bukhari, Muslim and other early hadeeth scholars mentioned the narrations that "Omar banned Mut'ah" because they believe Omar DID ban Mut'ah, or did they have other intentions?
5) Why did you think you were making a point when you said that "Mut'ah was allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's time"?  This one is real confusing to me because ALL things that were haraam were allowed until the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم banned it.
6) New issue:  I was reading this thread on shiachat http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235054737-can-i-have-mutah-with-different-men/ Why do you suppose everyone was discouraging her from doing Mut'ah with multiple men and some even accused her of being Salafi/Wahhabi?  How does this reconcile with the ahadeeth we read which say that the more you do Mut'ah, the more reward you will get (as is mentioned in the latest post by Muslim720)?

Don't we have any sense? *snip* I will continue this.

With all due respect, but that right there is why this thread has gotten so long.  Please try to stay on topic without appealing to "logic"; I am appealing to "logic" as well since we are both having a debate about this topic.  Just like you believe what I am saying is irrational, I think what you are saying is irrational and doesn't have textual basis.  As a result, you and I have a conversation actually addressing each other's points so we can reach a common word, بارك الله فيك.  We both believe in the Qur'an, the Sunnah and appealing to logic and reason.  So lets try to stay on topic so that this discussion can move forward, أحسن الله إليكم.

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

[iceman]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Don't you think that the reason this thread has gotten so long is because you're not addressing the contents of the thread?  You were called out several times for beating around the bush and not discussing the issues brought up.  What this does is create more issues, and we now have several NEW issues that you have yet to address; making the discussing even longer.  So lets try to summarize this and make it as concise as possible:

1) What is the ruling for Mut'ah in the Ja'fari madhhab?
2) If it is at least mustahabb, why is it so taboo in Ja'fari communities?
3) Is there any fatwas or ahadeeth which mention that Mut'ah is for certain circumstances?  As you know, the fatwas we read and the ahadeeth that are quoted always seem to imply that the virtue of the act is unrestricted.
4) Do you believe that Bukhari, Muslim and other early hadeeth scholars mentioned the narrations that "Omar banned Mut'ah" because they believe Omar DID ban Mut'ah, or did they have other intentions?
5) Why did you think you were making a point when you said that "Mut'ah was allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's time"?  This one is real confusing to me because ALL things that were haraam were allowed until the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم banned it.
6) New issue:  I was reading this thread on shiachat http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235054737-can-i-have-mutah-with-different-men/ Why do you suppose everyone was discouraging her from doing Mut'ah with multiple men and some even accused her of being Salafi/Wahhabi?  How does this reconcile with the ahadeeth we read which say that the more you do Mut'ah, the more reward you will get (as is mentioned in the latest post by Muslim720)?

With all due respect, but that right there is why this thread has gotten so long.  Please try to stay on topic without appealing to "logic"; I am appealing to "logic" as well since we are both having a debate about this topic.  Just like you believe what I am saying is irrational, I think what you are saying is irrational and doesn't have textual basis.  As a result, you and I have a conversation actually addressing each other's points so we can reach a common word, بارك الله فيك.  We both believe in the Qur'an, the Sunnah and appealing to logic and reason.  So lets try to stay on topic so that this discussion can move forward, أحسن الله إليكم.

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Salaam brother. Ok.....lets see if I can get through to you on this occasion.

You asked,

"What is the ruling for Mut'ah in the Ja'fari madhhab?"

My answer, the ruling is clear.

In response to a question about Mutah, Grand Ayatollah Khamenei responded and declared that Mutah (temporary marriage) is not only permissible but rather it is Mustahabb (highly recommended). Ayatollah Khameini said:

“Although mut‘ah marriage is permissible, or rather mustahabb [highly recommended] in our view, it is not obligatory in shar‘[iah].”

Now what does this mean and what do we take from it?

There are two things here,

1, it is permissible. 2, or rather mustahabb.

Note the difference here and how it has been said.

Why is it permissible? Just for the same reason and purpose the Prophet (s) deed it permissible.

To be continued!

[Khaled]

Salaam brother. Ok.....lets see if I can get through to you on this occasion.

Wa alykum as-Salaam, lets hope so inshallah 

You asked,

"What is the ruling for Mut'ah in the Ja'fari madhhab?"

My answer, the ruling is clear.

In response to a question about Mutah, Grand Ayatollah Khamenei responded and declared that Mutah (temporary marriage) is not only permissible but rather it is Mustahabb (highly recommended). Ayatollah Khameini said:

“Although mut‘ah marriage is permissible, or rather mustahabb [highly recommended] in our view, it is not obligatory in shar‘[iah].”

I did ask that because we know what the ruling is; mustahabb.  Everyone here has agreed that Ja'fari view is that it is higher than mubah, and lower than wajib.  Having finally established that, I would prefer we look at the fatwa you quoted from in its entirety to see context and what it actually means.

Link to original fatwa http://english.almaaref.org/essaydetails.php?eid=4762&cid=596

Q: If in the mukallaf’s country/city the common view considers mut‘ah marriage as a slander or accusation in such a way that a believer is accused of being not religious and having illegal relations or even despised if he/she does it, what is the ruling, then?

A: Although mut‘ah marriage is permissible, or rather mustahabb in our view, it is not obligatory in shar‘. Therefore, if it leads to conflict, accusation or vile consequences matters that are not acceptable by the Divine Legislator, it is rendered impermissible for the mukallaf to be indulged in such a marriage.

Notice the context of the fatwa; the questioner is asking about the ruling of mut'ah when done in a society that considers Mut'ah taboo.  The Ayatollah then goes on to ruling that doing so in such a society would making Mut'ah impermissible.  Fine, that's not uncommon for a Shar'i ruling to change depending on the circumstances.  However, this is not what this thread has been about.  This close-to-a-100 post thread has been about WHY is Mut'ah taboo in Ja'fari cultures considering the high status of it in the Madhhab?  Why is an act, which if done four times, can get a person on the same station as the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم considered so vile in Ja'fari cultures?  This is what this thread is and has been all about.

Now what does this mean and what do we take from it?

There are two things here,

1, it is permissible. 2, or rather mustahabb.

Note the difference here and how it has been said.

So you know everything that is Mustahabb is by default Mubah.  He wasn't making a distinction.  It's like if someone asked, "What is the ruling on Salat at-Tahajjud?" thinking that it is haram, so the Mufti answers, "not only is it permissible, it is actually mustahabb."

Why is it permissible? Just for the same reason and purpose the Prophet (s) deed it permissible.

Well here is a place where we disagree, so this now brings up another issue.  I believe the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم permitted it because it was a practice which Allah hadn't prohibited.  I believe that ultimately it was banned by the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم because Allah prohibited it.  So unless you have some evidence that we can both rely on here, its' best not to use conjecture.

To be continued!

Looking forward to it

[iceman]

Brother this is what you said;

"Well here is a place where we disagree, so this now brings up another issue.  I believe the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم permitted it because it was a practice which Allah hadn't prohibited.  I believe that ultimately it was banned by the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم because Allah prohibited it.  So unless you have some evidence that we can both rely on here, its' best not to use conjecture"

Take a note of this;

"I believe that ultimately it was banned by the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم because Allah prohibited it"

If the Prophet (s) banned it because ALLAH PROHIBITED IT then the matter is crystal clear. If it's from ALLAH then it is absolutely obvious that it has to be in the QORAN.

Can you provide me with the verse/s from the Qoran where Allah has prohibited Mutah and because of this direct order and command from Allah the Prophet (s) banned it.

Also can you provide me with an absolute clear Hadith that the Prophet (s) said Mutah was only permissible due to exceptional circumstances.