Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?

[Khaled]

If the Prophet (s) banned it because ALLAH PROHIBITED IT then the matter is crystal clear. If it's from ALLAH then it is absolutely obvious that it has to be in the QORAN.

Several points:

#1 If something is prohibited by the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم it doesn't need to be prohibited in the Qur'an.  This is basic Usool al-Fiqh.  Allah سبحانه وتعالى says:

And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it). And fear Allah; verily, Allah is Severe in punishment. [59:7]

#2 If the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم prohibited us from Taraweeh, then the matter should be crystal clear in the Qur'an.  Notice how that doesn't make any sense.
#3 I don't believe the Imam is crystal clear in the Qur'an (or in there at all).
#4 The names of the 12 Imams (or any of them) is not found in the Qur'an, FAR more important than the prohibition of Mut'ah.

Nonetheless, what you're saying is soundly rejected because no Muslim jurist, mainstream or Ja'fari, ever made the claim that for a prohibition to be valid from the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم we have to find in the Qur'an.

Also can you provide me with an absolute clear Hadith that the Prophet (s) said Mutah was only permissible due to exceptional circumstances.

I never made that claim, rather it was you that made that claim.  I claimed the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't prohibit it right away, like he didn't prohibit all kinds of things right away that later because haram; i.e. alcohol, renaming adopted children's lineage etc.  The burden of proof is on you since you claimed it.  So, either provide a hadeeth or a fatwa stating so, or else this is just your personal madhhab and not representative of the Ja'fari madhhab.

Please also address all the points before trying to address something new.  It makes it look like you don't have a reply to the other points, بارك الله فيك.  Here are the issues for reminder:

1) What is the ruling for Mut'ah in the Ja'fari madhhab? *answered* It is mustahabb according to Ayatollah Khamini.
2) If it is at least mustahabb, why is it so taboo in Ja'fari communities?
3) Is there any fatwas or ahadeeth which mention that Mut'ah is for certain circumstances?  As you know, the fatwas we read and the ahadeeth that are quoted always seem to imply that the virtue of the act is unrestricted.
4) Do you believe that Bukhari, Muslim and other early hadeeth scholars mentioned the narrations that "Omar banned Mut'ah" because they believe Omar DID ban Mut'ah, or did they have other intentions?
5) Why did you think you were making a point when you said that "Mut'ah was allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's time"?  This one is real confusing to me because ALL things that were haraam were allowed until the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم banned it.
6) New issue:  I was reading this thread on shiachat http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235054737-can-i-have-mutah-with-different-men/ Why do you suppose everyone was discouraging her from doing Mut'ah with multiple men and some even accused her of being Salafi/Wahhabi?  How does this reconcile with the ahadeeth we read which say that the more you do Mut'ah, the more reward you will get (as is mentioned in the latest post by Muslim720)?

[iceman]

Here we go again. This is what you said and they are your words;

"Well here is a place where we disagree, so this now brings up another issue.  I believe the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم permitted it because it was a practice which Allah hadn't prohibited.  I believe that ultimately it was banned by the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم because Allah prohibited it.  So unless you have some evidence that we can both rely on here, its' best not to use conjecture"

Now lets examine what you said bit by bit.

You said;

"so this now brings up another issue"

You've brought in another issue which needs to be addressed by you.

You then say;

"I believe the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم permitted it because it was a practice which Allah hadn't prohibited"

Ok, so you believe that the Prophet (s) permitted Mutah, not because of Allah that Allah ordered it to be permissible, but because of the Prophet (s). In other words it was the Prophet's (s) own action.

Then you further say;

"I believe that ultimately it was banned by the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم because Allah prohibited it"

Excuse me, the Prophet (s) permitted it and there was no order or indication from Allah of it being permissible or prohibited. But the Prophet (s) banned it because Allah indicated and ordered it to be prohibited? Because Allah prohibited it?

Any order or indication from Allah of anything being permitted or prohibited has to be in the Qoran and Gabriel comes to Muhammad (s) with verse/s of it being permitted or prohibited.

Now this is what is logical and makes sense;

The prophet (s) permitted Mutah but there has to be a reason and purpose for why apart from " because Allah didn't prohibit it'. Because if Allah didn't prohibit it then he also didn't make it permissible. This was the sole action of the Prophet (s) but why?

Now if the Prophet (s) banned it then you bring Allah as the reason for it. But why ban it? This doesn't make any sense.

[iceman]

Several points:

#1 If something is prohibited by the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم it doesn't need to be prohibited in the Qur'an.  This is basic Usool al-Fiqh.  Allah سبحانه وتعالى says:
#2 If the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم prohibited us from Taraweeh, then the matter should be crystal clear in the Qur'an.  Notice how that doesn't make any sense.
#3 I don't believe the Imam is crystal clear in the Qur'an (or in there at all).
#4 The names of the 12 Imams (or any of them) is not found in the Qur'an, FAR more important than the prohibition of Mut'ah.

Nonetheless, what you're saying is soundly rejected because no Muslim jurist, mainstream or Ja'fari, ever made the claim that for a prohibition to be valid from the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم we have to find in the Qur'an.

I never made that claim, rather it was you that made that claim.  I claimed the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't prohibit it right away, like he didn't prohibit all kinds of things right away that later because haram; i.e. alcohol, renaming adopted children's lineage etc.  The burden of proof is on you since you claimed it.  So, either provide a hadeeth or a fatwa stating so, or else this is just your personal madhhab and not representative of the Ja'fari madhhab.

Please also address all the points before trying to address something new.  It makes it look like you don't have a reply to the other points, بارك الله فيك.  Here are the issues for reminder:

1) What is the ruling for Mut'ah in the Ja'fari madhhab? *answered* It is mustahabb according to Ayatollah Khamini.
2) If it is at least mustahabb, why is it so taboo in Ja'fari communities?
3) Is there any fatwas or ahadeeth which mention that Mut'ah is for certain circumstances?  As you know, the fatwas we read and the ahadeeth that are quoted always seem to imply that the virtue of the act is unrestricted.
4) Do you believe that Bukhari, Muslim and other early hadeeth scholars mentioned the narrations that "Omar banned Mut'ah" because they believe Omar DID ban Mut'ah, or did they have other intentions?
5) Why did you think you were making a point when you said that "Mut'ah was allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's time"?  This one is real confusing to me because ALL things that were haraam were allowed until the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم banned it.
6) New issue:  I was reading this thread on shiachat http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235054737-can-i-have-mutah-with-different-men/ Why do you suppose everyone was discouraging her from doing Mut'ah with multiple men and some even accused her of being Salafi/Wahhabi?  How does this reconcile with the ahadeeth we read which say that the more you do Mut'ah, the more reward you will get (as is mentioned in the latest post by Muslim720)?

Now you mentioned this;

"And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it). And fear Allah; verily, Allah is Severe in punishment. [59:7]"

Now if the Prophet (s) gives you something, take it. Do you have to take it? Would this be compulsory, wajib? And if you don't take it then you're committing Haram?

And what ever he forbids you abstain from it, if you don't what then? What does abstain mean?

You said;

"If the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم prohibited us from Taraweeh, then the matter should be crystal clear in the Qur'an.  Notice how that doesn't make any sense"

You're getting all mixed up here. Take this; if the Prophet (s) prohibited Taraweeh then this is different than,
the Prophet (s) banned Taraweeh because Allah prohibited it. See the difference. The first one wouldn't be in the Qoran because it is from the Prophet (s) alone and his own action.

But the second is also the Prophet's (s) action but it is not from the Prophet (s) but from and because of Allah and HAS to be in the QORAN.

If something is prohibited by the Messenger (s) alone that doesn't have to be in the Qoran. But if something is banned by the Prophet (s) because you claim Allah prohibited it then that must and has to be in the Qoran because it's from Allah.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

If the Prophet (s) banned it because ALLAH PROHIBITED IT then the matter is crystal clear. If it's from ALLAH then it is absolutely obvious that it has to be in the QORAN.

Can you provide me with the verse/s from the Qoran where Allah has prohibited Mutah and because of this direct order and command from Allah the Prophet (s) banned it.

Brother, InshaAllah! I will prove to you from Quran using  Shia hadeeth that permissiblity of  Mutah has been abrogated.

But before I do that you need to  honestly answer some simple questions.

Do you think  permanent marriage is better than  Mutah(temporary) marriage or not ? Like suppose there is a Shia sister who has an option to marry a guy in any of the two marriages. That is, permanent or Mutah. So which one of these would be better according to YOU. ?

[iceman]

Brother, InshaAllah! I will prove to you from Quran using  Shia hadeeth that permissiblity of  Mutah has been abrogated.

But before I do that you need to  honestly answer some simple questions.

Do you think  permanent marriage is better than  Mutah(temporary) marriage or not ? Like suppose there is a Shia sister who has an option to marry a guy in any of the two marriages. That is, permanent or Mutah. So which one of these would be better according to YOU. ?

Why can't you just answer the questions and then by all means ask? The Prophet (s) permitted Mutah, why and what for? He (s) banned Mutah, why and what for? What was the reason and purpose for Mutah to be permissible and then prohibited? Just simple and straightforward questions.

[iceman]

Brother, InshaAllah! I will prove to you from Quran using  Shia hadeeth that permissiblity of  Mutah has been abrogated.

But before I do that you need to  honestly answer some simple questions.

Do you think  permanent marriage is better than  Mutah(temporary) marriage or not ? Like suppose there is a Shia sister who has an option to marry a guy in any of the two marriages. That is, permanent or Mutah. So which one of these would be better according to YOU. ?

First of all temporary and permanent, marriage, to engage in a full time or part time martial contract, be it Nikah or Mutah both are permissible.

Second, it all depends on the sister in question and her guardians and family. She and they are well aware of their circumstances, situation and condition.  I am not and this is not for me to decide on.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Second, it all depends on the sister in question and her guardians and family. She and they are well aware of their circumstances, situation and condition.  I am not and this is not for me to decide on.

assume it's your own sister. What would be better for her . Temp marriage or permanent .

Also could you give any scenario wherein temp marriage would be better than a permanent one, when they dont have any problem for performing either of the one?

[iceman]

assume it's your own sister. What would be better for her . Temp marriage or permanent .

Also could you give any scenario wherein temp marriage would be better than a permanent one, when they dont have any problem for performing either of the one?

Listen, I don't know what you're getting at or what you're trying to prove here but my simple questions which are extremely important are not being answered. I wonder why.

[Hadrami]

Listen, I don't know what you're getting at or what you're trying to prove here but my simple questions which are extremely important are not being answered. I wonder why.

😂😂😂 as if you have answered the question of this thread. Its 107 posts and still sidetracking. Why an act that is soooooo virtuous and recommended is considered taboo by shia. First you make up excuse i was rude, fair enough, but you still didnt answer when Khalid asked the same question. Want to use rude excuse on Khalid too? 😂😂

[muslim720]

Why can't you just answer the questions and then by all means ask? The Prophet (s) permitted Mutah, why and what for? He (s) banned Mutah, why and what for? What was the reason and purpose for Mutah to be permissible and then prohibited? Just simple and straightforward questions.

No doubt simple and straightforward questions but to make the matter murky.  We Muslims, Shias and Sunnis, believe that "we hear and we obey".  We have heard that the Prophet (saw) made mutah permissible then placed a prohibition on it for reasons best known to him (saw); our task is "we hear and we obey".  You believe the Prophet (saw) made it permissible and never prohibited it for reasons best known to him (saw).  As a Muslim, you should not be concerned with the "why" so much as you should be with the implementation of Sunnah.

Now, why is this Sunnah highly encouraged in your madhhab but the minute one proposes this Sunnah for the sister, mother or daughter of a Shia man, the same person who defends mutah, he gets enraged to the point that he gets physical?

PS - you should not conflate buying time with having answered the question.  Also, you should not answer a question with another question.  The "why" is not at stake; what is at stake is your anger if mutah was proposed to someone related to you.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Listen, I don't know what you're getting at or what you're trying to prove here but my simple questions which are extremely important are not being answered. I wonder why.

I was expecting this kind of reaction from you, because I know its quite a tough job to answer this simple question, and you don't have the guts to answer it. Anyways, we know what is better from the two(temp or permanent marriage) by looking at the percentage of marriages occurred in Shia community. And for sure, the percentage of permanent marriages that occur in Shia community is way more than the temp. marriages(Mutah).


Coming back to your question"

If the Prophet (s) banned it because ALLAH PROHIBITED IT then the matter is crystal clear. If it's from ALLAH then it is absolutely obvious that it has to be in the QORAN.

Can you provide me with the verse/s from the Qoran where Allah has prohibited Mutah and because of this direct order and command from Allah the Prophet (s) banned it.

Shias use the verse 24 of Surah An-Nisa, to claim that Mutah(temp. Marriage) is proven from Quran. Are they correct in their claim? Or does is the verse in current form against Mutah? 

To understand this matter one must focus on the major difference between permanent and temporary(Mutah) marriage.
The basic difference between Mutah(temp marriage) and Nikah(permanent marriage), is the "mention of appointed time". If in any marriage there is the mention of an "appointed time period" for the annulment of marriage, then that marriage by default is Mutah, and any marriage where there is no mention of the "appointed time period for annulment", then by default it is Nikah.

We read:
حدثنا محمد بن بشر عن عبد العزيز بن عمر عن الحسن بن مسلم عن ابن طاوس قال : كانت سنة المتعة سنة النكاح إلا أن الاجل كان في أيديهن
From Mohammad bin Bishr from Abdul Aziz bin Omar from Al-Hasan bin Muslim from Ibn Tawus: The way (sunnah) of temporary marriage was the way of the (regular) marriage, "except that the time period" is in her hands.(Al-Musanaf, v. 3, p. 546).

We see that, in Mutah there is a set time period, where as in Nikah there isn’t any time period set.

Now let us see the verse of Quran which is used by Shias:
..seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed...(Current version of the verse of Quran 4:24).

In this verse, we find that deriving benefit is mentioned, however without the mention of the condition of "appointed time period", because people derive benefit from their wives even through Nikah, but what differentiates between Nikah and Mutah here is that, benefit in Nikah is derived "without the condition of appointed time", where as in Mutah people derive benefit for an "appointed time".

Another evidence is an authentic Shia hadeeth from Al-Kafi, which says that, the verse of Quran(4:24), WAS REVEALED, with the additional words [FOR AN APPOINTED TIME].

“Abu ‘Abd Allah(as) has said, ‘IT WAS REVEALED AS “If you marry them FOR AN APPOINTED TIME for advantageous marriage you must pay their dowries.” (4:24)’” [Al-Kafi H 9870, Ch. 94, h 3] [Majlisi said its Hasan(good) in Miraat ul uqool, vol 20, page 227]

Similarly in Sunni hadeeth, Imam al-Hakim records
أخبرنا أبو زكريا العنبري ثنا محمد بن عبد السلام ثنا إسحاق بن إبراهيم أنبأ النضر بن شميل أنبأ شعبة ثنا أبو سلمة قال : سمعت أبا نضرة يقول قرأت على ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما {فما استمتعتم به منهن فآتوهن أجورهن فريضة} قال ابن عباس: فما استمعتم به منهن إلى أجل مسمى قال أبو نضرة : فقلت ما نقرأها كذلك فقال ابن عباس : والله لأنزلها الله كذلك
Abu Zakariyyah al-‘Anbari – Muhammad b. ‘Abd al-Salam – Ishaq b. Ibrahim – al-Naḍr b. Shumayl – Shu’bah – Abu Salamah – Abu Naḍrah: I read to Ibn ‘Abbas: {Those of them with whom you contract mut’ah, give them their prescribed dowries} [4:24]. He said: “{Those of them with whom you contract mut’ah for a specified period}”. Abu Naḍrah said: I said, “We do not recite it like that!” Ibn ‘Abbas replied, “I swear by Allah, Allah certainly revealed it like that.

However, the Current version of the verse of Quran, doesn’t have the addition "FOR AN APPOINTED TIME", which basically means that, it was revealed for Mutah, but was abrogated, by the same verse which was better, which didn’t have the condition of appointed time, which implies it is for Nikah. Because as I explained before, deriving benefit with the "mention of an appointed time is Mutah", but when it is without the condition of appointed time, then it is Nikah.

Allah says in Quran: {If We abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We will replace it by a better one or one similar to it. Do you not know that God has power over all things?} [Quran 2:106]

As told you before, if ask any decent and civilized person, whether permanent marriage(Nikah) is better than temporary marriage(Mutah), then obvious answer would be that, permanent marriage(Nikah) is better. Hence Allah(swt) abrogated the ruling of Mutah(temporary marriage) by a better verse, which is about Nikah(permanent marriage). Therefore, the current version of verse 24 of Surah an-Nisa is against Mutah, since it abrogated the part which talks about an "appointed time". Thus the current verse of Quran 4:24 is regarding Nikah(permanent marriage).

Similarly, Imam Ibn Taymiyyah provides his interpretation of these narrations:
If revealed, then it is a letter (a recitation), and there is no doubt that it is not from the famous recitation, which makes it abrogated, and it would have been revealed when mut’ah was permissible, and when it became forbidden this letter (recitation) was abrogated. [Minhaj Al-Sunnah 2/634]

[iceman]

Lets all calm down and relax. I see emotions are running very high here and absolutely unnecessary.☺

I don't know how many times I need to say, repeat and answer. Anyways, lets have another go.

Firstly Shia Scholars differ in thought, opinion and point of view just exactly as the Suni Scholars do. Same applies to books written by Shia or Suni Scholars. One shouldn't handpick something at random just to prove their point according to their mindset be it Shia or Suni.

Secondly sense and logic, reality and facts have their place then Qoran and Sunah. If something doesn't make sense, isn't logical, is not according to reality and facts, doesn't fit in or add up then it can't be in and from Qoran and Sunah. This is what my belief is based on. I don't know about yours.

Thirdly it's got nothing to do with my sister, daughter, neice etc or yours or anybody else's. Mutah is highly recommended but for who? For what? And why is it highly recommended? Please shake off and get rid of that mindset and start thinking straight.

The reason why Mutah is permissible, highly recommended is because it was banned by rulers after Muhammad (s)  and it is considered as something bad in fact terrible by Muslims and in the Muslim community. The Shia Scholars issue fatwas or give statements to bring back the reputation and value of Mutah which has been damaged, damned and cursed by certain Muslims and their school of thought.

Will continue this.

[iceman]

Now if Mutah was considered taboo in the Shia community then people wouldn't practice it all. And they would advise others not to as well giving their reasons. What ever fatwa or statement a Shia Scholar has given one needs to ask that particular scholar for a detailed explanation rather than taking it at face value and giving it your own meaning and explanation based on your own understanding and mindset.

I have said this before and I will say it again that when it comes to my sister or daughter, it is not for me to choose for them. In fact it is down to them. And if they choose not to engage in Mutah then that is their choice. Just because they choose not to doesn't mean Mutah is bad or it is taboo with in Shia community.

Mutah is not a choice like 'what would you prefer; coke, 7 up or Fanta?'. Mutah is their as a solution for those who seem to have the need for it. For those harsh conditions, situations and circumstances.

[iceman]

The Prophet (s) made Mutah permissible and you don't know why? What was the reason and purpose you don't know. What, this was top secret and had to be kept discreet?  The best you can do ànd come up with is 'forget about why'.

Again the Prophet (s) prohibited Mutah and you can't come up with a single answer to why? What was the reason and purpose you don't have the faintest, is this what you're telling me? Is this what your faith and belief is based on?

Brother Khaled mentioned that the Prophet (s) banned Mutah because Allah prohibited it, he hasn't come up with the Quranic text of where and when Allah prohibited it.

Mutah is not about choice but it is a solution for those who have harsh conditions, are in difficult situations or face complicated circumstances. All you need to do is use your sense and think with logic.

[iceman]

Mutah is not a Sunah and highly recommended because the Prophet (s) engaged in it and people have a free pass or an open ticket. It is there for those who find themselves in difficult situations, extreme circumstances or face harsh conditions.

Those who are not ready to take on the responsibility of permanent and full time marriage or can't engage in it because of education or haven't established themselves. Those who are in the armed services be it land, air or sea and find or put themselves in awkward and difficult conditions and situations.

I can give you many many more examples. Now you need a direct and clear fatwa from a Shia Scholar, you want it in black and white? Firstly can you do the same about why the Prophet (s) made Mutah permissible and was that due to and only based on exceptional circumstances which someone mentioned. You also have to give or provide exactly what you ask for.

[Hadrami]

😂😂😂😂 still diverting from what is being asked. Where are other shias when you need them. I guess most of them knows shia mut'ah is filth

[iceman]

Mut'ah Banned by Umar

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 43:

Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: The Verse of muta was revealed in Allah's Book, so we performed it with Allah's Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Qur'an to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet prohibit it till he died. But the man (omar) just expressed what his own mind suggested

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:

Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (muta of Hajj and muta of women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3248:

Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet pbuh and during the time of Abi Bakr and 'Umar

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3249:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith.

[iceman]

😂😂😂😂 still diverting from what is being asked. Where are other shias when you need them. I guess most of them knows shia mut'ah is filth

I KNOW YOU CAN'T DO ANY BETTER.😂

[Hadrami]

The reason why Mutah is permissible, highly recommended is because it was banned by rulers after Muhammad (s)  and it is considered as something bad in fact terrible by Muslims and in the Muslim community. The Shia Scholars issue fatwas or give statements to bring back the reputation and value of Mutah which has been damaged, damned and cursed by certain Muslims and their school of thought.

Will continue this.

Ok so shia sholars said it was highly recommended because they want to clean up mutah reputation eh? In that case ayatula should try it first and mutah their daughters. Go to your scholars and ask their daughter for mutah and lets see if they practise what they preach. Lets see how they will give fatwa that is is highly recommended to slap your face 😂😂

[iceman]

Ok so shia sholars said it was highly recommended because they want to clean up mutah reputation eh? In that case ayatula should try it first and mutah their daughters. Go to your scholars and ask their daughter for mutah and lets see if they practise what they preach. Lets see how they will give fatwa that is is highly recommended to slap your face 😂😂

You can carry on the way you want. The reaction you want out of me you definitely won't be getting. I am too technical and far sighted for you. 😊 Mutah is there for those who feel or seem to have the need. To get sisters or daughters or anyone else to do it is out of the question. No one owns anybody. So think of a different technique. 😃