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Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers

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Bolani Muslim

Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« on: May 01, 2015, 03:57:54 AM »
Salaam, I did my best to translate and Inshallah I hope I made no mistakes.

Translation:
Dear friends, this is good so hear me out.
No 12er shia aalim will find a hukm that didn't give kufr statement on none besides shias (all non-shias are kafir) WITHOUT EXCEPTION, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
The only difference between Shias are: Some gave kufr hukm against eachother in appearance and reality and some against others with opposing views in Islam.
But against Baatin All give kufr statement against them and their is ijma (consensus).
No Issues their! My dears, what is the origin of this kufr hukm? What's the basis of takfir?:
It is that imamate from the opinion of Shia, or Usool from 'Usool e Deen' (roots of deen) or from the roots of our mazhab.
And because of this dears, this belief: Meaning that the method of takfeer in the school of 'Ahlul Bayt' isn't chopping off hands or changing out main beliefs, and until shias (remove) imamat from usool e deen or usool e mazhab or importance of importance in our mazhab and deen, then the takfeer on ALL others stands and their is NO other way.
And the way of takfir in shia religion is clear cut.
Deers (not the animal) what I just said is authentically shia.
The book 'صاحب الجواهر' Volume 22 page 62 talks about people with beliefs outside the fold of 12er shiaism: With a hadees that's frequent about the 'others' with a frequently occurring hadees that's final says that: They (Ahlul Bayt?) did lanat on Ahlul Sunnah and said abusive words to them, and abused Ahlul Sunnah and considers the Ahlul Sunnah as KAFIR, because they (Ahlul Sunnah) are the Zoroastrians (fire-worshipper) of the ummah, and are moer evil than the Christians, and are as filthy as DOGS.
When the Ahlul Sunnah say stuff like this, then what usually goes through your mind?
I don't want this year's actions of al-Qaeda and Daesh and send out takfir statements. Never! Never! However, when you read what the Shias believe about them (sunnis), Wallah, Shias should read these statements and they (shia) won't know what to do!!!
Shias have given a religious ruling that Sunnis are Najis kafirs, and see Sunnis as at a lower level then Christians and Jews.
While we're the ummah of Mohammad (saw) and the Quran says: If someone assaults you, then someone (abuse?) them.
Now that we've given the verdict that Ahlul Sunnah are najis kafirs and we are to do lanat on Sunnis and that they are worse then Christians and Jews!

MuslimAnswers

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2015, 04:30:05 AM »
^

I do not know Farsi, but the translation will need some improvement (like for the term "Dear ones", some other term will have to be used).

Bolani Muslim

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2015, 07:14:26 AM »
'Dear' sounds odd, but I don't think theirs any English equivalent.

Farid

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 07:37:00 AM »
Pretty harsh video. I don't think i've seen Kamal like this before.

I don't watch much TV or youtube so i wouldn't know if he's usually like this.

MuslimAnswers

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2015, 01:34:45 PM »
'Dear' sounds odd, but I don't think theirs any English equivalent.

Hmm, you should stick to translations of 'originally Farsi' videos to English, since a twice translated video or text will have problems, and will decrease the effect of the work.

Hani

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2015, 11:02:39 PM »
Sahib al-Jawahir means the author of al-Jawahir, he's Ayatullat al-Jawahiri and his book is Jawahir al-Kalam.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimK

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  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
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Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015, 11:48:29 PM »
Powerful Video!

AM should upload this on this their sites ASAP. This topic of Takfir is very important especially nowadays.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Rationalist

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2015, 07:16:48 AM »
Awesome! One 12er Shia brother was telling me that Sunnis do takfir on Shias too. I told him the ones  that do are open about it. Unlike the 12ers who on  inside consider Sunnis kaffir, but on the outside smile and call you brother.

Bolani Muslim

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 09:45:57 PM »
I made my first video and I'd like to give thanks to Abu Muslim Khoraisani and Kalemah TV :D
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 09:51:06 PM by Bolani Muslim »

MuslimAnswers

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2015, 08:38:37 PM »
^

We have to consider the motive behind these statements: For the Sunnis, we are, as everyone knows, quite open about declaring the Kufr of those who are open in their disbelief. If a person is a Munaafiq, we cannot declare Kufr, since he is doing the actions of Islam and harboring hatred for Islam inside his heart, but we only judge based on the apparent.

But for the Shia, if he says that we are 'Muslims in this world', then the belief in 'Ali's (RAA) Imaamah is a secret doctrine and/or a probabilistic one. It cannot be said that the belief in Imaamah is obligatory, and yet the one who openly rejects it knowingly is a 'hidden non-Muslim', precisely because of the open nature of his disbelief about an indubitable doctrine.

(It could also be that the double-speak could not be kept up: One can only scratch one's head when, throughout their books, the Shia calls the beliefs of the Sunnis and the leaders of the Sunnis as Nasibis and Hell-bound for rejecting their 'Infallibles', then closes it with 'an appeal for our Sunni brothers to reconsider their beliefs'...something has got to give.)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 09:00:52 PM by MuslimAnswers »

matpau_83

Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2015, 10:48:18 AM »
This is like clear cut proof of their deviant creed towards others sects. But i'm pretty sure when i post this video to any shi'i, the first thing that come out is, it's not a full video bla bla bla, this is wahabi propoganda, bla bla bla. I think Haydari above is trying to diffuse the tension of conflicting texts and fatwa between classical shi'i scholars and 'contemporary' shi'i scholar regarding 'unity with sunnis'. its like nuri tabarsi all over again. u cover one hole, two new leaks come out..

MuslimK

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  • Total likes: 241
  • +8/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Kamal al Haydari on Takfir on non-12ers
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2015, 02:31:41 AM »
Here is the full lecture from the official site of Ayatollah Kamal Haydari in case Shias claim these are taken out of context:

(Last 10 minutes)

http://alhaydari.com/ar/2014/09/54415/

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

 

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