Ok, so the method and procedure of Shura is a matter IJTIHAD and it is not a matter of DEEN. Can we back this up with some reference.
The lack of any proof that it is a matter of Deen is the evidence itself. Anytime someone claims something is a matter of Deen, the onus is on him to prove it, not for the one negating that it is part of Deen to disprove it.
Similar to how I said the burden of proof is on Shiites to prove that Imamate is an institution in Islam. Sunnis do not have to prove that Imamate doesn't exist.
Ok, so for example Islam tells us to pray or fast but is not concerned on how we actually pray or fast. Mmmmmm! Doesn’t really fit in, does it? Or Islam tells us about marriage and divorce but doesn't really care how we get married or get divorced?
We agree that Islam has detailed instructions for us on these matters because they are clearly found in the Quran and Sunnah. Likewise, we ask you to show us clearly from Quran and Sunnah the institution of divinely appointed, infallible imamate.
Furthermore, the idea that there is a divinely appointed, infallible Imamate is contrary to the doctrine of Khatm an-Nubuwwah. Short of actually calling an Imam as Prophet, it is observed that in the Shiite doctrine the Imam has virtually all the qualities and status of an actual Prophet (and is in fact even superior to a Prophet).
Lets not be silly. Cleaning your house is one thing but choosing a successor or leader is another.
Says who?
There is no comparison. But still even cleaning your house will have a method and procedure. You will have one particular way of doing it and I'll have another. But there will be a procedure and method in our mind.
You just shot yourself in the foot with this statement. You say "you will have one particular way of doing it and I'll have another", meaning it there can be variation and difference of opinion because Islam has not given us a specific method that we must follow. It is up to our own intellect and circumstances to discover and practice a method we consider to be most effective. That is exactly our position on the method and procedure of Shura.
Point taken. But what I'm saying is there was no Shura in Saqifa to begin with. People didn't gather there to select a leader for the Ummah. Only the heads of the Ansar gathered to select their own leader.
Yes, that is one method of Shura, that only the elders and senior leaders within a community should be consulted because they are the representatives of the community, as opposed to consulting every single woman and child.
By all means you can disagree with this method of consultation, and you have the right to do so, because as I keep saying, it is not a matter of Deen.
In a tribal society the method of consultation will obviously differ from that of a modern nation state with completely different set of circumstances, such as constituents of the society, level of literacy and education, traditions, customs, culture, politics, etc.
Allah didn't give us Islam to spoon feed us as though we are robots that can't think for ourselves or use our imagination. The Quran says that humans are the superior creation precisely because we have the intellect and we can have great achievements. If Islam gave us detailed instructions for everything that would leave little room for humans to explore their own intellect and analyze their own situation.
Islam's purpose is to give us basic guidelines of morality. It's detailed instructions are mostly to do with how we worship Allah. But it has left us a lot of room to determine our own affairs on other matters, but it has praised the method of consultation.
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November 22, 2015, 11:57:53 PM