Life after Shia questions

[Farid]

Don't believe people's random stories online brother.

Gay religious Muslims do exist. They are usually Qur'an only and extremely ignorant.

[Ameen]

My dear brother Hani,

You said,

"You're the boy, have some self respect."

My reply,

If I'm the boy how come you're the one with the childish behaviour (ha ha ha, hee hee hee)
And you're telling me about self respect! You really need to practice before you preach and gain before you advise.

You said,

"
If you bothered to open one book of Fiqh in your life, you'd know that what you said is false."

My reply,

Since you seem to know it all, why don't you prove that I'm false??? Accusing is easy, which you seem to do and proving is difficult, which you seem to run from.

[Hani]

I told you how to find out, open the books of Fiqh and READ!


I'm not going to do it for you.

[Ameen]

I told you how to find out, open the books of Fiqh and READ!


I'm not going to do it for you.

You don't have to do anything for me. But what you need to do for yourself is, if you believe something I've said is false then, it's down to you to prove it. Then the ball is in your court! It's your serve! Otherwise don't accuse me of falsehood or back your claim. You need to give up the childish response.

[Ameen]

Brother Bolani, Salam Alaykum.

There are a number of Ex-Shias on this board. Brother Husayn, Efendi (owner of gift2shias.com) and myself. There are some threads about Ex-Shias on this forum:

The Rise of the Sunnis & EX-Shias [VIDEO]: http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/the-rise-of-the-sunnais-ex-shias-%28video%29/

Why I left Shiasm (by Husayn. A Rafidi  member from the old forum whom I debated myself for literally TEN years till he became Muslim!!!): http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/why-i-left-shiaism/

As for my story, well It's a bit long, maybe I write something about it one day, as for now here is ONE of MANY main reasons why I believe that Shiism is the religion of satan and the unholy progeny of satan (it's written by myself but from brother Ibn Al-Hindi's aka swords of sunnah's amazing blog) and not the religion and school of the Ahl Al-Bayt:

http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/from-whom-do-you-take-your-religion/

As for our families, well, it's kinda private question, but those who like can answer of course. May Allah bless you for leaving the religion of shirk for Islam, Tawhid and Sunnah.

As for schools of thought. These are Fiqhi schools, ever rotten Marja' is a fiqhi school (they differ on tons of issues, from najasat, to the ruling of the jumu3a prayer), so don't be bothered by the cheap shots of the Rawafid. What is important is that you are a Muslim now (whatever fiqh you follow) and not an Imamite Mushrik.

Your words,

"Why I left Shiasm (by Husayn. A Rafidi  member from the old forum whom I debated myself for literally TEN years till he became Muslim!!!): http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/why-i-left-shiaism/"

So tell me how did this Rafidi member, from the old forum whom you debated for ten years yourself, become a Muslim??? How do you become a Muslim from a Rafidi??? What did he have to say or do??? Or what did you make him say or do??? How do you become a Muslim??? By saying Shahadathain, yes??? The Rafidi (Shia) already believes in and says the Shahadathain, so what does he further say or do to become a Muslim??? Well come on hot shot!

[Bolani Muslim]

Your words,

"Why I left Shiasm (by Husayn. A Rafidi  member from the old forum whom I debated myself for literally TEN years till he became Muslim!!!): http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/why-i-left-shiaism/"

So tell me how did this Rafidi member, from the old forum whom you debated for ten years yourself, become a Muslim??? How do you become a Muslim from a Rafidi??? What did he have to say or do??? Or what did you make him say or do??? How do you become a Muslim??? By saying Shahadathain, yes??? The Rafidi (Shia) already believes in and says the Shahadathain, so what does he further say or do to become a Muslim??? Well come on hot shot!

Just because a person says the shahada doesn't make them a Muslim. The Qadianis say shahada, love Hazrat Muhammad (saw), pray, ect, but are unanimously declared as kaafir by Sunnis and shias. Same thing with Quranists, agha khanis, and definetly some twelvers.

[Ebn Hussein]

^Ibn Muljim the Shia of Ali, who fought with Ali, as a soldier of Ali at Siffin, eventually killed Ali and thought of himself as being a pious person. Rawafidh are Munafiq Akhi, they don't understand tawhid, they think tawhid means to repeat the shahada, well I can teach the Shahada to a parrot, Ibn Muljim the mal3un also said the shahada, he was a Khariji, in fact they are KNOWN for their worship, well does it make him a good Muslim? Does it make a parrot a Muslim (if you teach it the shahada)? Does it make Mushrik Twelver Muslim if they repeat the Shahada even a million times a day? Certainly NOT, because they negate the shahada with all of the kufriyat and shirkiyat which are essentially parts of their khurafi Deen and ADVOCATED and TAUGHT by their Shayatin (Ayatullats):

[Ameen]

Your words,

"Why I left Shiasm (by Husayn. A Rafidi  member from the old forum whom I debated myself for literally TEN years till he became Muslim!!!): http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/why-i-left-shiaism/"

So tell me how did this Rafidi member, from the old forum whom you debated for ten years yourself, become a Muslim??? How do you become a Muslim from a Rafidi??? What did he have to say or do??? Or what did you make him say or do??? How do you become a Muslim??? By saying Shahadathain, yes??? The Rafidi (Shia) already believes in and says the Shahadathain, so what does he further say or do to become a Muslim??? Well come on hot shot!

Just because a person says the shahada doesn't make them a Muslim. The Qadianis say shahada, love Hazrat Muhammad (saw), pray, ect, but are unanimously declared as kaafir by Sunnis and shias. Same thing with Quranists, agha khanis, and definetly some twelvers.

Brother let me break it down to you in simple tems, when it comes to thought, opinion and point of view we have two types; 1, What Allah and his Messenger (pbuh) thinks and 2, What we (humans or muslims) think. There is a huge difference here. According to Allah and his Messenger (pbuh) who is and remains a Muslim is one thing but according to us is another. I will contune this.

[Ameen]

Continued!

To enter Islam by becoming a Muslim one must say the Shahadah, one must give the two testimonies;
1, Ash hado an la ilahaa illallah ho wahdahu la sharee Kalah.
I swear that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and he is the only one, he has no associate or partner.
2, Ash hado Anna Muhammadan abdohu Wa Rasool.
I swear that Mhuammad (pbuh) is his Prophet and spokesman.

Now anyone who says and believes in this, is a Muslim. The ones who don't accept and believe in this are called nonbelievers (kafir). From a Muslim to being or becoming a nonbeliever (kafir), one needs to announce and declare that they have left Islam. In other words one needs to go back from their testimonies that they have given and then announce and declare their new faith.

Brothers, what you, I or anybody else thinks is our thought, opinion and point of view. According to us, who we think remains a Muslim and which Muslim we think has become a kafir, is nothing but accusation based on our thinking. This is something we need to refrain from and bring a stop to. We should focus on and consider ourselves. This is who we should be more concerned about, ourselves rather than others. We are not going to be questioned about others but ourselves. And no one is going to be berried with us or enter out graves, except us.

I'm not interested in people's opinion, who they think has become a kafir or which Muslims they accuse of Kufar. Can someone provide me with clear verses and or hadiths about, which Muslims have become Kafir according to Allah and his Messenger (pbuh), while still saying and believing in the two testimonies???

[Ameen]

Brother Ebn Hussein, "Ibne Muljim, the Shia of Ali", how was he the Shia of Hazrath Ali (as) He was the killer and murderer of Hazrath Ali (as), so how can he be two things at one time, a friend and enemy of Ali (as) Either he was his Shia or he wasn't. Would it be nice for me to say that the killers and murderers of Hazrath Umar (ra) and Hazrath Usman (ra) were their friends and Sunnis??? Accusing and coming out with silly statements doesn't suit anybody. The enemies of Hazrath Ali (as) were those who went to war with him. Those who fought him by becoming against him to such an extreme level. Your enemy is the one who fights you by going against you. Your friend is the one who protects by standing firm with you.

[Hadrami]

Continued!

To enter Islam by becoming a Muslim one must say the Shahadah, one must give the two testimonies;
1, Ash hado an la ilahaa illallah ho wahdahu la sharee Kalah.
I swear that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and he is the only one, he has no associate or partner.
2, Ash hado Anna Muhammadan abdohu Wa Rasool.
I swear that Mhuammad (pbuh) is his Prophet and spokesman.

Now anyone who says and believes in this, is a Muslim. The ones who don't accept and believe in this are called nonbelievers (kafir).

But according to Shia Imam, not believing in just 1 of the 12 = rejecting Nubuwwah (the second testimony).

Let me quote what you wrote in the other thread http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-discussion/smashing-the-myth-of-taking-ahlulbayt-as-the-only-conveyors-of-islamic-knowledge/msg1271/#msg1271

To reject "Nabuwath" or any part or bit of it, results in "Kufar"[/size]. And to associate anything, anyone or yourself to "Allah" results in "Shirk".

So using your definition plus imam's saying, then Ebn Hussein, me & all Sunni of this world don't believe in the other half of shahada. What does it make us? Muslim?

[Ameen]

Continued!

To enter Islam by becoming a Muslim one must say the Shahadah, one must give the two testimonies;
1, Ash hado an la ilahaa illallah ho wahdahu la sharee Kalah.
I swear that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and he is the only one, he has no associate or partner.
2, Ash hado Anna Muhammadan abdohu Wa Rasool.
I swear that Mhuammad (pbuh) is his Prophet and spokesman.

Now anyone who says and believes in this, is a Muslim. The ones who don't accept and believe in this are called nonbelievers (kafir).

But according to Shia Imam, not believing in just 1 of the 12 = rejecting Nubuwwah (the second testimony).

Let me quote what you wrote in the other thread http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-discussion/smashing-the-myth-of-taking-ahlulbayt-as-the-only-conveyors-of-islamic-knowledge/msg1271/#msg1271

To reject "Nabuwath" or any part or bit of it, results in "Kufar"[/size]. And to associate anything, anyone or yourself to "Allah" results in "Shirk".

So using your definition plus imam's saying, then Ebn Hussein, me & all Sunni of this world don't believe in the other half of shahada. What does it make us? Muslim?

Rather than answering the matter your turning it around and derailing it. According to certain brothers some Shias are considered Kafir because of their belief and faith. You haven't told me how this would make them a kafir. How would you be a kafir if you accused certain companions of being half hearted Muslims or having a weak Eemaan??? Or if you accused certain companions or wives of the Propher (pbuh) of having sinned, how would this make you a kafir??? Or what other belief would throw you out of the fold of Islam. Prove or at least explain this to me through Quran and Sunnah rather than what you, I or anybody else thinks.

[Ameen]

Plus brother Hadrami, I asked you about who wouldn't remain a Muslim through Quran and Sunnah, according to Allah and his Messenger (pbuh). Not what I or you think. I did mention Nabuwath but where did I say that you would be a kafir or would become one if you didn't accept Shia Imamath???

Brothers need to explain why they consider certain other Muslims as kafir and out of the fold of Islam.

[MuslimK]

Rather than answering the matter your turning it around and derailing it. According to certain brothers some Shias are considered Kafir because of their belief and faith. You haven't told me how this would make them a kafir. How would you be a kafir if you accused certain companions of being half hearted Muslims or having a weak Eemaan??? Or if you accused certain companions or wives of the Propher (pbuh) of having sinned, how would this make you a kafir??? Or what other belief would throw you out of the fold of Islam. Prove or at least explain this to me through Quran and Sunnah rather than what you, I or anybody else thinks.

سلام علیکم
You know that is not true. Nobody calls Shia Kafir because they accuse certain companions of having weak eman or committing sin.

Plus brother Hadrami, I asked you about who wouldn't remain a Muslim through Quran and Sunnah, according to Allah and his Messenger (pbuh). Not what I or you think. I did mention Nabuwath but where did I say that you would be a kafir or would become one if you didn't accept Shia Imamath???

Brothers need to explain why they consider certain other Muslims as kafir and out of the fold of Islam.

It is not about what you say. Your opinion changes nothing in the Shia beliefs. It is about what Shia text and major early and contemporary scholars say.

[Ameen]

Rather than answering the matter your turning it around and derailing it. According to certain brothers some Shias are considered Kafir because of their belief and faith. You haven't told me how this would make them a kafir. How would you be a kafir if you accused certain companions of being half hearted Muslims or having a weak Eemaan??? Or if you accused certain companions or wives of the Propher (pbuh) of having sinned, how would this make you a kafir??? Or what other belief would throw you out of the fold of Islam. Prove or at least explain this to me through Quran and Sunnah rather than what you, I or anybody else thinks.

سلام علیکم
You know that is not true. Nobody calls Shia Kafir because they accuse certain companions of having weak eman or committing sin.

Plus brother Hadrami, I asked you about who wouldn't remain a Muslim through Quran and Sunnah, according to Allah and his Messenger (pbuh). Not what I or you think. I did mention Nabuwath but where did I say that you would be a kafir or would become one if you didn't accept Shia Imamath???

Brothers need to explain why they consider certain other Muslims as kafir and out of the fold of Islam.

It is not about what you say. Your opinion changes nothing in the Shia beliefs. It is about what Shia text and major early and contemporary scholars say.

You are still not coming out clear and clean. Do you believe that certain Shias are kafirs or have become kafir because of what they say and believe in??? You are also a group of people who do not represent the Ahle Sunnah of the entire world or their views. What you say is your thought, opinion and point of view but I still would like to here it. Come out straight and clean. What do Shia text and major early and contemporary scholars say??? Tell me!

[Hadrami]

What? Me derailing? Of course not, im just pointing out your double standard in complaining about others calling shias kuffar when it is your scholars who loves calling the best of Muslim as kuffar.

Cut the BS about half hearted iman etc, we know what your scholars think about abu bakar. According to them, he has no iman, not 1/2 or 1/4 and that other taqiyah term youve been using.

The reason why believing Abu Bakar RA a kafir makes a person a kafir is because that person denies what Allah clearly say about Muhajirin such as Abu Bakar RA, not because we believe he is infalible. Another reason is we know that according to your imam, Sunni = people who denied nubuwwah = kuffar.

So how on earth you are complaining about us when the one with extremist takfiri mind is your scholars???
Have you ever complained to your scholar and tell them to renounce their takfiri mind?

[Ameen]

What? Me derailing? Of course not, im just pointing out your double standard in complaining about others calling shias kuffar when it is your scholars who loves calling the best of Muslim as kuffar.

Cut the BS about half hearted iman etc, we know what your scholars think about abu bakar. According to them, he has no iman, not 1/2 or 1/4 and that other taqiyah term youve been using.

The reason why believing Abu Bakar RA a kafir makes a person a kafir is because that person denies what Allah clearly say about Muhajirin such as Abu Bakar RA, not because we believe he is infalible. Another reason is we know that according to your imam, Sunni = people who denied nubuwwah = kuffar.

So how on earth you are complaining about us when the one with extremist takfiri mind is your scholars???
Have you ever complained to your scholar and tell them to renounce their takfiri mind?

Calm down brother and relax. There is no need to get personal. It is just a general discussion. First you speak about takfeer, take a look at all the Muslim organisation/parties/groups who are involved in and carry out terrorist activities world wide, they all claim to be and no doubt are from the Ahle Sunnah.

Second explain to me where have I accused any Muslim, individual, group, party, sect etc to be a kafir. What the Shia scholars or any Shia individual say, please put it forward as evidence to back your claim and we will discuss it. Bring forward your worries rather than the abusive attitude and language.

Thirdly I don't want your opinion and I'm not interested in mine either, prove to me through Quran and Sunnah and absolutely clearly that you would become a kafir if you say this, do that or believe in this. It doesn't matter if it is the companions, wives or any other relative of the Prophet (pbuh), how would you become a kafir by not accepting and believing in them, in the manner you have put forward??!

Don't forget to put forward references for what Shia scholars say and the claims you have made. I will discuss them one by one.

[Ameen]

Brother Hadrami, certain Ahle Sunnah scholars have even refused to accept that Yazeed was a kafir. They believe he was very wrong in what he did and most certainly was a very bad man for what he did but they refuse to accept that he was and became a kafir for what he did. And you speak about Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) that certain Shia scholars have said that he was a kafir full stop. Is this true??? Then please provide me with those references and prove to me how would you become a kafir by accusing someone of becoming a kafir??? And also how would someone become a kafir because you believe and accuse them of it???

[Ameen]

Brother Bolani, Salam Alaykum.

There are a number of Ex-Shias on this board. Brother Husayn, Efendi (owner of gift2shias.com) and myself. There are some threads about Ex-Shias on this forum:

The Rise of the Sunnis & EX-Shias [VIDEO]: http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/the-rise-of-the-sunnais-ex-shias-%28video%29/

Why I left Shiasm (by Husayn. A Rafidi  member from the old forum whom I debated myself for literally TEN years till he became Muslim!!!): http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/why-i-left-shiaism/

As for my story, well It's a bit long, maybe I write something about it one day, as for now here is ONE of MANY main reasons why I believe that Shiism is the religion of satan and the unholy progeny of satan (it's written by myself but from brother Ibn Al-Hindi's aka swords of sunnah's amazing blog) and not the religion and school of the Ahl Al-Bayt:

http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/from-whom-do-you-take-your-religion/

As for our families, well, it's kinda private question, but those who like can answer of course. May Allah bless you for leaving the religion of shirk for Islam, Tawhid and Sunnah.

As for schools of thought. These are Fiqhi schools, ever rotten Marja' is a fiqhi school (they differ on tons of issues, from najasat, to the ruling of the jumu3a prayer), so don't be bothered by the cheap shots of the Rawafid. What is important is that you are a Muslim now (whatever fiqh you follow) and not an Imamite Mushrik.

Can you explain to me why you believe that Shiaism is the religion of Satan, the religion of Shirk??? And for you brother Hadrami and brother Hani, here we have a brother who doesn't believe that certain Shias are kafir or have become one , due to what they say, do and believe in but in fact this brother claims that Shiaism as a whole is the religion of Satan, the religion of shirk.

What do you brothers have to say about this??? What is Shirk and who is a Mushrik??? What is Kufar and who is a kafir??? What do you have to say??? According to Allah Satan became a kafir, now how is Shiaism the religion of Satan, who is a kafir, and also the religion of shirk at the same time???

[Hadrami]

Then please provide me with those references and prove to me how would you become a kafir by accusing someone of becoming a kafir??? And also how would someone become a kafir because you believe and accuse them of it???

Can you at least try to read what I post? It makes someone a kafir because those with such believe have gone against Allah who testify that Abu Bakar RA is not a kafir. Get it?

Calm down brother and relax. There is no need to get personal. It is just a general discussion. First you speak about takfeer, take a look at all the Muslim organisation/parties/groups who are involved in and carry out terrorist activities world wide, they all claim to be and no doubt are from the Ahle Sunnah.

You'd probably too young to know where those terrorism ideas came from. It was pioneered by secular/marxist/shia organisations in the late 70s/early 80s & unfortunately some sunni groups now are embracing it without knowing that they are following what is originally shia/secularist diseases.

Thirdly I don't want your opinion and I'm not interested in mine either, prove to me through Quran and Sunnah and absolutely clearly that you would become a kafir if you say this, do that or believe in this. It doesn't matter if it is the companions, wives or any other relative of the Prophet (pbuh), how would you become a kafir by not accepting and believing in them, in the manner you have put forward??!

Don't worry, i'll give one of your greatest scholar opinion who said all Sunni are disbeliever.

Don't forget to put forward references for what Shia scholars say and the claims you have made. I will discuss them one by one.

As a start, let's just use 1 reference so we don't go all over the place. You know al-Majlisi right? Just in case you don't, hes the greatest Iranian shia scholar whose works is respected by all Shia scholars to this day. Can I quote from one of his works to proof that shia is a takfiri sect?