TwelverShia.net Forum

Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: Adil on March 04, 2020, 06:18:50 PM

Title: Once again I require your help
Post by: Adil on March 04, 2020, 06:18:50 PM
Asalaamualaykum, you all well?

Firstly, I consider laymen shia Muslims until they do something which takes them out of the fold of Islam. I met a shia who believed that the Qur'an is corrupted and him I classify as kaffir. But I don't exactly know where to draw the line with some other things, a shia asked if I thought he was kaffir, these are his words :

"I've been to Qom, and Mahshad. I've held and kissed the zarih around the grave of Bibi Masoomah (as) and Imam Ali al-Ridha (as). I've prayed to Allah for their intercession. Am I still muslim now?".

Are the actions mentioned above taking him out of Islam or is he on major deviancy but without leaving the religion? Also have you guys seen some shia kissing the shrine in qom to say that there's no harm of corona virus to the "holyness of the grave", what about him? Would he qualify as a kaffir or again is it major deviancy? I don't want to mistaken say someones non-Muslim and also I don't want to mistakenly think someones a Muslim.

Secondly. He also stated "The sahaba held each other in contempt. Enough to curse each other. Enough to goto war against each other. Enough to kill each other. Shias more correctly follow the traditional attitude of the sahaba towards other sahaba, than you folk." that doesn't me doubts or anything and I see through that logically because obviously most sahaba didn't participate in the fighting, the battle of the camel was started by troublemakers and you know fallible people like sahaba do argue with each other. But has someone written an article about this or done a video where they've explained this more thoroughly so I can better write down a rebuttal with more details included?


Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: muslim720 on March 04, 2020, 10:02:27 PM
Asalaamualaykum, you all well?

Firstly, I consider laymen shia Muslims until they do something which takes them out of the fold of Islam. I met a shia who believed that the Qur'an is corrupted and him I classify as kaffir. But I don't exactly know where to draw the line with some other things, a shia asked if I thought he was kaffir, these are his words :

"I've been to Qom, and Mahshad. I've held and kissed the zarih around the grave of Bibi Masoomah (as) and Imam Ali al-Ridha (as). I've prayed to Allah for their intercession. Am I still muslim now?".

Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

If you read the fatwa on Shias, they almost always invoke two points before declaring some of them outside the fold of Islam: belief in Tahreef and cursing the Companions (ra).  The first one, obviously, is more detrimental than the second, as far as I'm concerned and I'm not even 0.0000000001% scholar and usually they are mentioned in tandem.  So the idea is not that Shias are not Muslims, it is what they do that can cast doubt upon their faith.

Another point worth mentioning - which brother Adnan stated in a discussion - is that our scholars have always issued fatwa on Shias based on several factors; they have to disbelieve in Qur'an and/or curse the Companions (ra), etc.  In other words, it is not made explicit in mainstream Islam; it is something based on independent reasoning.  The Shias, on the other hand, have ahaadith which say that denying one Imam (ra) is kufr, let alone denying the entire chain of Imams (ra) or the entire concept.

With these two points, it becomes clear that Sunnis - in my opinion - should consider Shias what they really are, a fringe group of Muslims, instead of trying to push them out of Islam.  You should make a hundred excuses for your brothers before you declare one guilty.

In Andalus, I was reading in a beautiful book titled, "Peace Be Upon You", a Muslim "convert" returned to Andalusia and went to a Muslim judge to challenge Islam.  Long story short, he cursed the Holy Prophet (saw) and said the nastiest things about Islam.  The judge, while clearly upset, slapped him but verified whether the man was drunk or insane.  Even after confirming, he issued the man a court date and during the hearing, the man repeated the same remarks and asked for capital punishment at which point he was executed.



Quote
Are the actions mentioned above taking him out of Islam or is he on major deviancy but without leaving the religion? Also have you guys seen some shia kissing the shrine in qom to say that there's no harm of corona virus to the "holyness of the grave", what about him? Would he qualify as a kaffir or again is it major deviancy? I don't want to mistaken say someones non-Muslim and also I don't want to mistakenly think someones a Muslim.

What he did at Qom or other shrines, Allah (swt) will judge him as per his intentions.  Nothing for you to do!



Quote
Secondly. He also stated "The sahaba held each other in contempt. Enough to curse each other. Enough to goto war against each other. Enough to kill each other. Shias more correctly follow the traditional attitude of the sahaba towards other sahaba, than you folk." that doesn't me doubts or anything and I see through that logically because obviously most sahaba didn't participate in the fighting, the battle of the camel was started by troublemakers and you know fallible people like sahaba do argue with each other. But has someone written an article about this or done a video where they've explained this more thoroughly so I can better write down a rebuttal with more details included?

I love my younger brother more than anyone can imagine.  Yet, he is the one person I have fought with most.  If you see us argue, especially over sports (embarrassing, I know), you'd think we are enemies.  Far from it.  Fact of the matter is that despite differences and battles, not a single Sahabi (ra) stabbed or struck another to death - at least none that I'm aware of.  And while one may try to judge them in light of their actions, the worst amongst them at their worst was better than most of us at our best.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 05, 2020, 01:58:39 AM
Asalaamualaykum, you all well?

Firstly, I consider laymen shia Muslims until they do something which takes them out of the fold of Islam. I met a shia who believed that the Qur'an is corrupted and him I classify as kaffir. But I don't exactly know where to draw the line with some other things, a shia asked if I thought he was kaffir, these are his words :

"I've been to Qom, and Mahshad. I've held and kissed the zarih around the grave of Bibi Masoomah (as) and Imam Ali al-Ridha (as). I've prayed to Allah for their intercession. Am I still muslim now?".

Are the actions mentioned above taking him out of Islam or is he on major deviancy but without leaving the religion? Also have you guys seen some shia kissing the shrine in qom to say that there's no harm of corona virus to the "holyness of the grave", what about him? Would he qualify as a kaffir or again is it major deviancy? I don't want to mistaken say someones non-Muslim and also I don't want to mistakenly think someones a Muslim.

Secondly. He also stated "The sahaba held each other in contempt. Enough to curse each other. Enough to goto war against each other. Enough to kill each other. Shias more correctly follow the traditional attitude of the sahaba towards other sahaba, than you folk." that doesn't me doubts or anything and I see through that logically because obviously most sahaba didn't participate in the fighting, the battle of the camel was started by troublemakers and you know fallible people like sahaba do argue with each other. But has someone written an article about this or done a video where they've explained this more thoroughly so I can better write down a rebuttal with more details included?

"Firstly, I consider laymen shia Muslims until they do something which takes them out of the fold of Islam"

It doesn't matter about your opinion and what you consider. It's about facts. Shias are Muslims just as you. No more and no less. You or I labelling anyone based on our opinion doesn't mean anything. Nor does it take anything away from anyone.

"I met a shia who believed that the Qur'an is corrupted and him I classify as kaffir"

No shia believes that the Qur'an is corrupted. Lets not come out with accusations.

"But I don't exactly know where to draw the line"

I'll tell you exactly what to do and where to draw the line. Are you responsible or will you be held responsible for what others think, say or do? That's the question you need to ask yourself. Just focus on yourself by worrying more about yourself rather than others. You won't be asked or held to account but for and about yourself.

And about the Sahaba, everyone is going to be judged by their intentions and actions. Sahaba or not, there is no diplomatic immunity.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Adil on March 05, 2020, 02:21:10 AM
"Firstly, I consider laymen shia Muslims until they do something which takes them out of the fold of Islam"

It doesn't matter about your opinion and what you consider. It's about facts. Shias are Muslims just as you. No more and no less. You or I labelling anyone based on our opinion doesn't mean anything. Nor does it take anything away from anyone.

"I met a shia who believed that the Qur'an is corrupted and him I classify as kaffir"

No shia believes that the Qur'an is corrupted. Lets not come out with accusations.

"But I don't exactly know where to draw the line"

I'll tell you exactly what to do and where to draw the line. Are you responsible or will you be held responsible for what others think, say or do? That's the question you need to ask yourself. Just focus on yourself by worrying more about yourself rather than others. You won't be asked or held to account but for and about yourself.

And about the Sahaba, everyone is going to be judged by their intentions and actions. Sahaba or not, there is no diplomatic immunity.

Two examples of shia believing that the Qur'an is corrupted.

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 05, 2020, 02:25:43 AM
Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

If you read the fatwa on Shias, they almost always invoke two points before declaring some of them outside the fold of Islam: belief in Tahreef and cursing the Companions (ra).  The first one, obviously, is more detrimental than the second, as far as I'm concerned and I'm not even 0.0000000001% scholar and usually they are mentioned in tandem.  So the idea is not that Shias are not Muslims, it is what they do that can cast doubt upon their faith.

Another point worth mentioning - which brother Adnan stated in a discussion - is that our scholars have always issued fatwa on Shias based on several factors; they have to disbelieve in Qur'an and/or curse the Companions (ra), etc.  In other words, it is not made explicit in mainstream Islam; it is something based on independent reasoning.  The Shias, on the other hand, have ahaadith which say that denying one Imam (ra) is kufr, let alone denying the entire chain of Imams (ra) or the entire concept.

With these two points, it becomes clear that Sunnis - in my opinion - should consider Shias what they really are, a fringe group of Muslims, instead of trying to push them out of Islam.  You should make a hundred excuses for your brothers before you declare one guilty.

In Andalus, I was reading in a beautiful book titled, "Peace Be Upon You", a Muslim "convert" returned to Andalusia and went to a Muslim judge to challenge Islam.  Long story short, he cursed the Holy Prophet (saw) and said the nastiest things about Islam.  The judge, while clearly upset, slapped him but verified whether the man was drunk or insane.  Even after confirming, he issued the man a court date and during the hearing, the man repeated the same remarks and asked for capital punishment at which point he was executed.



What he did at Qom or other shrines, Allah (swt) will judge him as per his intentions.  Nothing for you to do!



I love my younger brother more than anyone can imagine.  Yet, he is the one person I have fought with most.  If you see us argue, especially over sports (embarrassing, I know), you'd think we are enemies.  Far from it.  Fact of the matter is that despite differences and battles, not a single Sahabi (ra) stabbed or struck another to death - at least none that I'm aware of.  And while one may try to judge them in light of their actions, the worst amongst them at their worst was better than most of us at our best.

"I love my younger brother more than anyone can imagine.  Yet, he is the one person I have fought with most.  If you see us argue, especially over sports (embarrassing, I know), you'd think we are enemies"

How many battles did you fight. And how many were killed on both sides. Who's responsible for the casualties and the unnecessary loss. Lousy example and excuse you've put forward. Doesn't add up or match up.

Sahaba v Sahaba is one thing but going against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time is another. Don't keep looking for excuses.

"Far from it.  Fact of the matter is that despite differences and battles, not a single Sahabi (ra) stabbed or struck another to death - at least none that I'm aware of"

What another louse and cheap excuse. Preparing for war and giving the orders, doesn't that mean and stand for anything. That's like saying that Yazeed didn't kill Hussain personally and wasn't at Karbala when the incident took place, so Yazeed is free from any guilt or charges. Give me one human who the devil led astray personally. Don't become so blind.

"And while one may try to judge them in light of their actions"

We don't judge them but hold them to account for their actions. What is wrong is wrong. And who is wrong is wrong.

"the worst amongst them at their worst was better than most of us at our best"

This is injustice..You have no principles or rules then. Who gave them diplomatic immunity.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 05, 2020, 02:26:51 AM
Two examples of shia believing that the Qur'an is corrupted.



Corrupted how and in what way. Don't give me videos and clips put together by anti shia propagandists. Give me a clear fatwa or statement of any known and recognised Shia scholar. Don't beat around the bush.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Adil on March 05, 2020, 02:35:55 AM
Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

If you read the fatwa on Shias, they almost always invoke two points before declaring some of them outside the fold of Islam: belief in Tahreef and cursing the Companions (ra).  The first one, obviously, is more detrimental than the second, as far as I'm concerned and I'm not even 0.0000000001% scholar and usually they are mentioned in tandem.  So the idea is not that Shias are not Muslims, it is what they do that can cast doubt upon their faith.

Another point worth mentioning - which brother Adnan stated in a discussion - is that our scholars have always issued fatwa on Shias based on several factors; they have to disbelieve in Qur'an and/or curse the Companions (ra), etc.  In other words, it is not made explicit in mainstream Islam; it is something based on independent reasoning.  The Shias, on the other hand, have ahaadith which say that denying one Imam (ra) is kufr, let alone denying the entire chain of Imams (ra) or the entire concept.

With these two points, it becomes clear that Sunnis - in my opinion - should consider Shias what they really are, a fringe group of Muslims, instead of trying to push them out of Islam.  You should make a hundred excuses for your brothers before you declare one guilty.

In Andalus, I was reading in a beautiful book titled, "Peace Be Upon You", a Muslim "convert" returned to Andalusia and went to a Muslim judge to challenge Islam.  Long story short, he cursed the Holy Prophet (saw) and said the nastiest things about Islam.  The judge, while clearly upset, slapped him but verified whether the man was drunk or insane.  Even after confirming, he issued the man a court date and during the hearing, the man repeated the same remarks and asked for capital punishment at which point he was executed.



What he did at Qom or other shrines, Allah (swt) will judge him as per his intentions.  Nothing for you to do!



I love my younger brother more than anyone can imagine.  Yet, he is the one person I have fought with most.  If you see us argue, especially over sports (embarrassing, I know), you'd think we are enemies.  Far from it.  Fact of the matter is that despite differences and battles, not a single Sahabi (ra) stabbed or struck another to death - at least none that I'm aware of.  And while one may try to judge them in light of their actions, the worst amongst them at their worst was better than most of us at our best.

Thanks for the reply bro. Bro I'm not out to go giving judgements on shia but I would like clarity on the borders between shia acts/beliefs which make a person leave Islam and other acts/beliefs which whilst wrong do not take someone out of Islam. Some borders I do know like for example if they say the Qur'an is corrupted regardless of their intention. But what about something as I have mentioned above? What do those acts count as?
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: muslim720 on March 05, 2020, 10:56:43 PM
How many battles did you fight. And how many were killed on both sides.

Many verbal battles but zero casualties, Alhamdulilah!



Quote
Who's responsible for the casualties and the unnecessary loss. Lousy example and excuse you've put forward. Doesn't add up or match up.

The Divinely-Ordained Imam (ra) is responsible for not doing his job to guide people and prevent the life loss.  Lousy concept you have put forward.  Doesn't add up or match up.



Quote
Sahaba v Sahaba is one thing but going against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time is another. Don't keep looking for excuses.

The Fourth Rightly-Guided Caliph (ra) was still a Sahabi so it is Sahaba vs Sahaba, ya jahil!



Quote
What another louse and cheap excuse. Preparing for war and giving the orders, doesn't that mean and stand for anything. That's like saying that Yazeed didn't kill Hussain personally and wasn't at Karbala when the incident took place, so Yazeed is free from any guilt or charges.

As usual, the fallacious arguments posited by dimwits have to invoke extreme examples when we see that in almost all of these battles, the Sahaba (ra) themselves reconciled (eventually).  And then there were those who attacked Imam Hassan (ra) and stripped "infallibility" and "Imamah" from his offspring for doing just that (make peace).  We are not concerned with the latter.



Quote
Give me one human who the devil led astray personally. Don't become so blind.

You.  Shi'i scholars who believe in Tahreef.

There you go!  Easy peasy.



Quote
We don't judge them but hold them to account for their actions. What is wrong is wrong. And who is wrong is wrong.

Don't care what you do!  If you have a document that certifies your greatness like the Qur'an guarantees theirs, we will take a look at it.  Otherwise, shut up!



Quote
This is injustice..You have no principles or rules then. Who gave them diplomatic immunity.

The Qur'an gives them that immunity whereas your "infallible" Guide cannot even make his own case, lol.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 06, 2020, 02:37:35 AM
Many verbal battles but zero casualties, Alhamdulilah!



The Divinely-Ordained Imam (ra) is responsible for not doing his job to guide people and prevent the life loss.  Lousy concept you have put forward.  Doesn't add up or match up.



The Fourth Rightly-Guided Caliph (ra) was still a Sahabi so it is Sahaba vs Sahaba, ya jahil!



As usual, the fallacious arguments posited by dimwits have to invoke extreme examples when we see that in almost all of these battles, the Sahaba (ra) themselves reconciled (eventually).  And then there were those who attacked Imam Hassan (ra) and stripped "infallibility" and "Imamah" from his offspring for doing just that (make peace).  We are not concerned with the latter.



You.  Shi'i scholars who believe in Tahreef.

There you go!  Easy peasy.



Don't care what you do!  If you have a document that certifies your greatness like the Qur'an guarantees theirs, we will take a look at it.  Otherwise, shut up!



The Qur'an gives them that immunity whereas your "infallible" Guide cannot even make his own case, lol.

"The Divinely-Ordained Imam (ra) is responsible for not doing his job to guide people and prevent the life loss"

Lol. Lol again. Acording to us and the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah it was those who took up arms and used their influence to rebel against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time who were responsible. The 4th rightly guided Caliph was on Haq. And those who opposed the Caliph regardless through what ever means were on bail. Our objective along with the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah is clear. You can play double standards on it.

"The Fourth Rightly-Guided Caliph (ra) was still a Sahabi so it is Sahaba vs Sahaba, ya jahil!"

Was still? We and the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah don't come out with ifs and buts. We're clear on it. Don't use sahabiath as an excuse to berry your head in favouritism and start personality worship over it. Those who were guilty and wrong are guilty and wrong. Sahabiath gives no immunity.

"when we see that in almost all of these battles, the Sahaba (ra) themselves reconciled (eventually)"

Ceasefire is no reconciliation. It was Hassan the 5th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time against a very influential figure called Muawiya who built reputation and support under the rule of the first three caliphs. Hassan governed through Qur'an and Sunnah based on justice and fairness. Muawiyah governed by his will, wish and desire. He used his influence and might to get what he wanted regardless of the consequences and what effect it had on Islam and the Muslims. It's obvious that you do see it but are too naive to accept it.

"And then there were those who attacked Imam Hassan (ra) and stripped "infallibility" and "Imamah" from his offspring for doing just that (make peace)"

That's Muslims for you.

"The Qur'an gives them that immunity whereas your "infallible" Guide cannot even make his own case, lol."

The Qur'an doesn't give anyone immunity apart from those who were under the blanket and upon whom the verse of Tat'heer was revealed.

"Don't care what you do!  If you have a document that certifies your greatness like the Qur'an guarantees theirs, we will take a look at it"

No one has a document apart from those under the blanket. Only they have the certificate of approval and no one else.

"You.  Shi'i scholars who believe in Tahreef"

What is Tehreef, define and talk about it. Don't be an ignorant fool by throwing accusations around.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: muslim720 on March 06, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Lol. Lol again. Acording to us and the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah it was those who took up arms and used their influence to rebel against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time who were responsible. The 4th rightly guided Caliph was on Haq. And those who opposed the Caliph regardless through what ever means were on bail. Our objective along with the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah is clear. You can play double standards on it.

As evident, the truth has incapacitated you.  If the Fourth Rightly-Guided Caliph (ra) did not make direct claim to his "Divinely Ordained Leadership" - let alone teach us new things like going to Karbala is better than Hajj - why would we take anything else you say seriously?  The science of hadith categorizes "liars" as weak narrators so you want us to believe a liar like you who follows a tradition of misguided liars?



Quote
Was still? We and the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah don't come out with ifs and buts. We're clear on it. Don't use sahabiath as an excuse to berry your head in favouritism and start personality worship over it. Those who were guilty and wrong are guilty and wrong. Sahabiath gives no immunity.

We, the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jam'ah, existed long before your beliefs crystallized into what they are today and will continue to exist long after another Shi'i strand replaces the Ithna Ashari.

And when you talk about personality worship, it is like a bastard asking for paternity tests from others.



Quote
Ceasefire is no reconciliation. It was Hassan the 5th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time against a very influential figure called Muawiya who built reputation and support under the rule of the first three caliphs. Hassan governed through Qur'an and Sunnah based on justice and fairness. Muawiyah governed by his will, wish and desire. He used his influence and might to get what he wanted regardless of the consequences and what effect it had on Islam and the Muslims. It's obvious that you do see it but are too naive to accept it.

Repeating the same record won't help you.  What will help you is the answer to this simple question (if you dare): why did Imam Hassan (ra) - the Fifth Rightly Guided Caliph (according to us) and Second "Infallible" Imam (according to you) abdicate what was Divinely Ordained for him so that a "tyrant" like Muawiya could rule over Muslims?



Quote
That's Muslims for you.

No, that would be Shias who excommunicated the offspring of Imam Hassan (ra) from any Divine Leadership claims ONLY because their father (ra) made peace with Muawiya.  And you dare claim to be a lover of Ahlul Bayt (ra).



Quote
The Qur'an doesn't give anyone immunity apart from those who were under the blanket and upon whom the verse of Tat'heer was revealed.

"(And there is also a share in this booty) for the poor emigrants, who were expelled from their homes and their property, seeking Bounties from Allāh and to please Him. And helping Allāh (i.e. helping His religion) and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW). Such are indeed the truthful (to what they say)

And those who, before them, had homes (in Al-Madinah) and had adopted the Faith, love those who emigrate to them, and have no jealousy in their breasts for that which they have been given (from the booty of Banī An-Nadīr), and give them (emigrants) preference over themselves, even though they were in need of that. And whosoever is saved from his own covetousness, such are they who will be the successful"

Where do you fit Imam Hassan (ra) and Imam Hussain (ra) in those two verses of Surah Al-Hashr 8-9?

They clearly talk about Allah's (swt) Pleasure with Muhajir and Ansar.  Except your First "Infallible" Imam (ra), none were either Muhajir or Ansar.

You will fare better if you read the Qur'an more often



Quote
What is Tehreef, define and talk about it. Don't be an ignorant fool by throwing accusations around.

You are an ignorant fool to not know what Tahreef means.  You asked me to show you "one human who the devil led astray personally".  I showed you many.  You.  All those Shi'i scholars who believe(d) in Tahreef.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 08, 2020, 06:40:35 PM
As evident, the truth has incapacitated you.  If the Fourth Rightly-Guided Caliph (ra) did not make direct claim to his "Divinely Ordained Leadership" - let alone teach us new things like going to Karbala is better than Hajj - why would we take anything else you say seriously?  The science of hadith categorizes "liars" as weak narrators so you want us to believe a liar like you who follows a tradition of misguided liars?



We, the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jam'ah, existed long before your beliefs crystallized into what they are today and will continue to exist long after another Shi'i strand replaces the Ithna Ashari.

And when you talk about personality worship, it is like a bastard asking for paternity tests from others.



Repeating the same record won't help you.  What will help you is the answer to this simple question (if you dare): why did Imam Hassan (ra) - the Fifth Rightly Guided Caliph (according to us) and Second "Infallible" Imam (according to you) abdicate what was Divinely Ordained for him so that a "tyrant" like Muawiya could rule over Muslims?



No, that would be Shias who excommunicated the offspring of Imam Hassan (ra) from any Divine Leadership claims ONLY because their father (ra) made peace with Muawiya.  And you dare claim to be a lover of Ahlul Bayt (ra).



"(And there is also a share in this booty) for the poor emigrants, who were expelled from their homes and their property, seeking Bounties from Allāh and to please Him. And helping Allāh (i.e. helping His religion) and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW). Such are indeed the truthful (to what they say)

And those who, before them, had homes (in Al-Madinah) and had adopted the Faith, love those who emigrate to them, and have no jealousy in their breasts for that which they have been given (from the booty of Banī An-Nadīr), and give them (emigrants) preference over themselves, even though they were in need of that. And whosoever is saved from his own covetousness, such are they who will be the successful"

Where do you fit Imam Hassan (ra) and Imam Hussain (ra) in those two verses of Surah Al-Hashr 8-9?

They clearly talk about Allah's (swt) Pleasure with Muhajir and Ansar.  Except your First "Infallible" Imam (ra), none were either Muhajir or Ansar.

You will fare better if you read the Qur'an more often



You are an ignorant fool to not know what Tahreef means.  You asked me to show you "one human who the devil led astray personally".  I showed you many.  You.  All those Shi'i scholars who believe(d) in Tahreef.

As evident, the truth has incapacitated you.  If the Fourth Rightly-Guided Caliph (ra) did not make direct claim to his "Divinely Ordained Leadership" - let alone teach us new things like going to Karbala is better than Hajj - why would we take anything else you say seriously?  The science of hadith categorizes "liars" as weak narrators so you want us to believe a liar like you who follows a tradition of misguided liars?"

When you start to lose an argument that's when you bring in irrelevant stuff. Stick to the facts. According to the Ahle Sunnah Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph. According to the Ahle Sunnah the Ulul Amre of the time is the Caliph. Now those who use their influence and take up arms against the rightly guided Caliph and the Ulul Amre of the time, those who use means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met are known as terrorists/outlaws regardless of their personality or prestige status. Stick to these facts. Don't berry your head in the side or go hopping around to bring in irrelevant stuff. It's a lost argument for you because of your arrogance. You don't need to accept this. Facts don't need your acceptance and approval. This is the Ahle Sunnah view and stance that those who raise arms against the rightly guided Caliph are outlaws. Now you need to put your confrontational stance aside and decide if you're Ahle Sunnah or something else.

"We, the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jam'ah, existed long before your beliefs crystallized into what they are today and will continue to exist long after another Shi'i strand replaces the Ithna Ashari"

Wrong again because your banging your head against facts. You're a bad lower. The Sunnis came around during the time and generation of our 6th Imam Jaffar Al Sadiq. Your Imam Abu Hanafi was a student of our 6th Imam who then went off and apposed Jaffar to create his own school of thought backed by the government against Al Sadiq. This is where the first Sunnis emerged, the followers of Abu Hanifa.

Later on Sunnis fell into disarray and developed differences where Imam Malik separated and started his own school of thought. The difference furthered to Shafi and Hambali schools of thought. You didn't even exist and were no where to be seen when we were around.

"And when you talk about personality worship, it is like a bastard asking for paternity tests from others"

Lol. Lol again. You are so far stuck up in personality worship that a few companions and that's just a handful never got anything wrong what so ever. You have turned them into Holy saints. They abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded in battle and ran to save their lives. They shunned the Prophet s.a.w when he asked for pen and paper and weren't interested in what he had to offer. This went on while the Prophet s.a.w was alive. Never mind about what they got up to after the Prophet's s.a.w death.

"Repeating the same record won't help you"

The constant confrontational stance won't help you.

"why did Imam Hassan (ra) - the Fifth Rightly Guided Caliph (according to us) and Second "Infallible" Imam (according to you) abdicate what was Divinely Ordained for him so that a "tyrant" like Muawiya could rule over Muslims?"

This has been answered many times. But just to silence you and to put your mischief to rest.
 
First of all you said;

"why did Imam Hassan (ra) - the Fifth Rightly Guided Caliph (according to us) and Second "

Fifth Rightly Guided Caliph according to the Ahle Sunnah? Really? When it comes to Jamal and Safeen where does your 4th rightly guided Caliph according to the Ahle Sunnah go? Lol.

Now the answer to your question which I will most certainly dare to answer as usual unlike you.

Imam Hassan did not abdicate what was Divinely Ordained for him.

The tyrant like Muawiya, your words, only ruled over Muslims due to the failure of the Muslims. Just like Yazeed ruled over the Muslims. Just like the Prophet s.a.w was prevented from pen and paper and what he had to offer wasn't accepted to begin with. The failure of the companions and their offsprings at their time and generation. That's were the fault and blame is.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 08, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
No, that would be Shias who excommunicated the offspring of Imam Hassan (ra) from any Divine Leadership claims ONLY because their father (ra) made peace with Muawiya.  And you dare claim to be a lover of Ahlul Bayt (ra)"

Lol. Lol again. Blame the Shias for everything. That's all you can do. That's the most easy way out for you. Shias killed Hussain, Shias let down Hassan, Shias killed Usman, Shias this Shias that. Where were you (Sunnis) in all this? Lol.

"Where do you fit Imam Hassan (ra) and Imam Hussain (ra) in those two verses of Surah Al-Hashr 8-9?"

In the verses you mentioned how does your handful companions and their actions after the Qur'an was revealed and what they got up to fit in? As for Hassan and Hussain I can do much better something that is undisputed and which you can't deny or reject. The verse of Mubahila and Tat'heer. You can't beat that.

"They clearly talk about Allah's (swt) Pleasure with Muhajir and Ansar.  Except your First "Infallible" Imam (ra), none were either Muhajir or Ansar"

Yeh. Those who performed and achieved well. And it applies to those when the verses were revealed. You can't pick up verses and start justifying and protecting those who failed by falling below expectation or those after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w regarding what they did and got up to. Nice try.

"You will fare better if you read the Qur'an more often"

I do read it more often. The only difference is you read it to find bits and pieces to try and defend your handful of godly figures. And you look at history to see what bits and pieces you can find either to undermine the Shia faith or to paint a bad picture. That's the difference.

"You are an ignorant fool to not know what Tahreef means.  You asked me to show you "one human who the devil led astray personally".  I showed you many.  You.  All those Shi'i scholars who believe(d) in Tahreef"

You are an ignorant arrogant or arrogant ignorant, which ever way you want it. You don't have a clue what Tehreef means. Nor do you have a clue about anything else.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 08, 2020, 07:03:28 PM

When you start to lose an argument that's when you bring in irrelevant stuff. Stick to the facts. According to the Ahle Sunnah Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph. According to the Ahle Sunnah the Ulul Amre of the time is the Caliph. Now those who use their influence and take up arms against the rightly guided Caliph and the Ulul Amre of the time, those who use means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met are known as terrorists/outlaws regardless of their personality or prestige status. Stick to these facts. Don't berry your head in the side or go hopping around to bring in irrelevant stuff. It's a lost argument for you because of your arrogance. You don't need to accept this. Facts don't need your acceptance and approval. This is the Ahle Sunnah view and stance that those who raise arms against the rightly guided Caliph are outlaws. Now you need to put your confrontational stance aside and decide if you're Ahle Sunnah or something else.

Yes and use the ahlu sunnah view on yourself, the terrorist Malik bin nuwerah your hero fought against the first khaliph ra so come on now and use the same argument for the first and call nuwerah an outlaw or terrorist or are you just a typical Shiite hypocrite talking nonsense as usual just answering for the sake of it.

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 09, 2020, 01:41:48 PM
Yes and use the ahlu sunnah view on yourself, the terrorist Malik bin nuwerah your hero fought against the first khaliph ra so come on now and use the same argument for the first and call nuwerah an outlaw or terrorist or are you just a typical Shiite hypocrite talking nonsense as usual just answering for the sake of it.

"Yes and use the ahlu sunnah view on yourself, the terrorist Malik bin nuwerah your hero fought against the first khaliph"

What is the Ahle Sunnah view? Lets look at some facts first which normally bite you. Malik was a Sahabi, not just a Sahabi but also a tax collector. He was from bani Tamim, he belonged to the tribe of Tamim. Malik bin Nuwayrah and his men didn't fight the first Caliph. This is where you are wrong. They put down their arms/weapons. As soon as they did they were arrested and taken as prisoners. Then beheaded. Why? The charge against them was that they became munkar e Zakah meaning they started to believe that Zakah wasn't obligatory. They didn't pray and no Azaan was heard. There was no trial or investigation. Just accused, charged and killed over night.

The person who did this was your champion Khalid ibn Waleed under the armed battalion he controlled. Some men from that battalion complained to the first Caliph that Khalid acted hastily. Some said that they did hear the Azaan at bani tamim tribe and saw them pray. Umar believed and told the first Caliph that Khalid should be punished for this. The first Caliph summoned Khalid and questioned him over this. The decision by the first Caliph was reached that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed unlawfully. Qisas money as compensation was given to Malik's brother.

Go do some homework child rather than jumping up and down.

"so come on now and use the same argument for the first and call nuwerah an outlaw or terrorist"

Open your eyes and stop playing blind. Make a principle and stick to it. If you believe that Jamal and Safeen was a result of the difference between companions and people of equal status and standard, then use the same principle that Abu Bakr, Khalid, Malik and his tribes men were also companions and this was also a difference between companions and men of equal status and standard.

But if you believe that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were wrong since they were up against the first Caliph and an armed battalion sent by the Caliph and this was a clash with the government then use this same principle in Jamal and Safeen and strip those, who raised arms against the 4th Caliph, off their companionship and label them Murtad just as you do and consider Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. 😊

You're all about double standards. Make a principle, lay it down then stick to it. 😆

"call nuwerah an outlaw or terrorist"

😊 As long as you consider those who went against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time terrorists, outlaws and Murtad. Put your words where your mouth is. 😆
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 09, 2020, 03:15:17 PM
"Yes and use the ahlu sunnah view on yourself, the terrorist Malik bin nuwerah your hero fought against the first khaliph"

What is the Ahle Sunnah view? Lets look at some facts first which normally bite you. Malik was a Sahabi, not just a Sahabi but also a tax collector. He was from bani Tamim, he belonged to the tribe of Tamim. Malik bin Nuwayrah and his men didn't fight the first Caliph. This is where you are wrong. They put down their arms/weapons. As soon as they did they were arrested and taken as prisoners. Then beheaded. Why? The charge against them was that they became munkar e Zakah meaning they started to believe that Zakah wasn't obligatory. They didn't pray and no Azaan was heard. There was no trial or investigation. Just accused, charged and killed over night.

The person who did this was your champion Khalid ibn Waleed under the armed battalion he controlled. Some men from that battalion complained to the first Caliph that Khalid acted hastily. Some said that they did hear the Azaan at bani tamim tribe and saw them pray. Umar believed and told the first Caliph that Khalid should be punished for this. The first Caliph summoned Khalid and questioned him over this. The decision by the first Caliph was reached that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed unlawfully. Qisas money as compensation was given to Malik's brother.

Go do some homework child rather than jumping up and down.

"so come on now and use the same argument for the first and call nuwerah an outlaw or terrorist"

Open your eyes and stop playing blind. Make a principle and stick to it. If you believe that Jamal and Safeen was a result of the difference between companions and people of equal status and standard, then use the same principle that Abu Bakr, Khalid, Malik and his tribes men were also companions and this was also a difference between companions and men of equal status and standard.

But if you believe that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were wrong since they were up against the first Caliph and an armed battalion sent by the Caliph and this was a clash with the government then use this same principle in Jamal and Safeen and strip those, who raised arms against the 4th Caliph, off their companionship and label them Murtad just as you do and consider Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. 😊

You're all about double standards. Make a principle, lay it down then stick to it. 😆

"call nuwerah an outlaw or terrorist"

😊 As long as you consider those who went against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time terrorists, outlaws and Murtad. Put your words where your mouth is. 😆

Oh how you missed out the self confessed prophet sajjah who made a pact with your hero. According to Tabari “this agreement stated that first they would deal with local enemy tribes together, and then they would confront the state of Madinah.”

Khalid bin Waleed ra made the right decision Alhamdulillah for the sword of Allah.

Fact of the matter is ahlu sunnah that includes all love and respect Abu Bakr sidique ra and Khalid bin Waleed ra you will Never find any ahlu sunnah criticise any sahaba especially for the terrorist Nuwera, your lies are clear to see.

Kid it was YOU who said fighting against khaliphs equals terrorists, I only gave you 1 example of Nuwera who did just that and........you’re coming out with excuses!!

You seriously are a dimwit.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 09, 2020, 07:02:47 PM
Oh how you missed out the self confessed prophet sajjah who made a pact with your hero. According to Tabari “this agreement stated that first they would deal with local enemy tribes together, and then they would confront the state of Madinah.”

Khalid bin Waleed ra made the right decision Alhamdulillah for the sword of Allah.

Fact of the matter is ahlu sunnah that includes all love and respect Abu Bakr sidique ra and Khalid bin Waleed ra you will Never find any ahlu sunnah criticise any sahaba especially for the terrorist Nuwera, your lies are clear to see.

Kid it was YOU who said fighting against khaliphs equals terrorists, I only gave you 1 example of Nuwera who did just that and........you’re coming out with excuses!!

You seriously are a dimwit.

😀 I love putting a straight jacket on you.

"Khalid bin Waleed ra made the right decision Alhamdulillah for the sword of Allah"

Not according to Umar he didn't. Umar wanted him brought to justice and punished. Abu Qatadah reported him to Abu Bakr. The first Caliph decided that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed unlawfully. Qisas blood money was given as compensation. Go do some homework child.

You said;

"Never find any ahlu sunnah criticise any sahaba"

Then you say;

"especially for the terrorist Nuwera"

You've said it yourself. Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were Sahabi who are not just criticised but called and labelled murtad. Despite reports that he was killed unlawfully. Not trial, no judge, no jury, no justice, nothing. Just accused and killed. And you bang on about the Ahle Sunnah view 😊

"Kid it was YOU who said fighting against khaliphs equals terrorists, I only gave you 1 example of Nuwera who did just that and........you’re coming out with excuses!"

I'm just pointing out the double standards about you. And how you completely disregard facts. Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time. Those who used means of violence and threatening behaviour and raised arms against the Caliph just to have their demands met what would you call them?😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Soccer on March 10, 2020, 05:42:05 AM
The truth is no sect is a version of the religion that God enjoined upon humanity.  Sunnis are right about somethings, and Shiites right about others thing, Salafis are even right about no innovations meant to be in religion. 

Islam is not the religion of submission talked about in Quran and Mohammad's way is not our way. Titles and claims are just that, reality is, guidance varies degrees these days.

The manifest strong nature of religion has been compromised.  Things we think 20 verses of Quran say, but in fact, Quran says the opposite of all those translations maybe a thing.

This is why I don't judge humans harshly in this age.  The true nature of guidance is harder, and people in general cannot be compared to those who deny clear miracles and when the religion reinforced with miracles, clear signs, and clear path.

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 10, 2020, 01:46:02 PM
😀 I love putting a straight jacket on you.

"Khalid bin Waleed ra made the right decision Alhamdulillah for the sword of Allah"

Not according to Umar he didn't. Umar wanted him brought to justice and punished. Abu Qatadah reported him to Abu Bakr. The first Caliph decided that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed unlawfully. Qisas blood money was given as compensation. Go do some homework child.

You said;

"Never find any ahlu sunnah criticise any sahaba"

Then you say;

"especially for the terrorist Nuwera"

You've said it yourself. Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were Sahabi who are not just criticised but called and labelled murtad. Despite reports that he was killed unlawfully. Not trial, no judge, no jury, no justice, nothing. Just accused and killed. And you bang on about the Ahle Sunnah view 😊

"Kid it was YOU who said fighting against khaliphs equals terrorists, I only gave you 1 example of Nuwera who did just that and........you’re coming out with excuses!"

I'm just pointing out the double standards about you. And how you completely disregard facts. Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time. Those who used means of violence and threatening behaviour and raised arms against the Caliph just to have their demands met what would you call them?😊

Don’t worry bout me kid you are stuck in your straight jacket till death, especially if you have beliefs of super humans and a human still living hiding in fear coz god made it so...........good luck with that mentally deranged thinking, you definitely are a dimwit.

Khalid bin Waleed ra is in heaven and He is loved and respected by all Muslims 1.6 billion of us, ahlu sunnah love him and ahlu sunnah love Him and hate Nuweara the “terrorist”.

No one gives a crap about Nuwera, you can keep him and his love for sajjah, he quickly forgot about the real prophet pbuh after He passed away and joined sajjah.

Dimwit iceman:

“I'm just pointing out the double standards about you. And how you completely disregard facts. Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time. Those who used means of violence and threatening behaviour and raised arms against the Caliph just to have their demands met what would you call them?”

“According to the Ahle Sunnah Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph. According to the Ahle Sunnah the Ulul Amre of the time is the Caliph. Now those who use their influence and take up arms against the rightly guided Caliph and the Ulul Amre of the time, those who use means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met are known as terrorists/outlaws regardless of their personality or prestige status. Stick to these facts.”

Go on then Nuwera was the first terrorist scum go on then dimwit call him for who he was.

Dimwit and his double standards 😁
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 10, 2020, 06:34:54 PM
Don’t worry bout me kid you are stuck in your straight jacket till death, especially if you have beliefs of super humans and a human still living hiding in fear coz god made it so...........good luck with that mentally deranged thinking, you definitely are a dimwit.

Khalid bin Waleed ra is in heaven and He is loved and respected by all Muslims 1.6 billion of us, ahlu sunnah love him and ahlu sunnah love Him and hate Nuweara the “terrorist”.

No one gives a crap about Nuwera, you can keep him and his love for sajjah, he quickly forgot about the real prophet pbuh after He passed away and joined sajjah.

Dimwit iceman:

“I'm just pointing out the double standards about you. And how you completely disregard facts. Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time. Those who used means of violence and threatening behaviour and raised arms against the Caliph just to have their demands met what would you call them?”

“According to the Ahle Sunnah Ali was the 4th rightly guided Caliph. According to the Ahle Sunnah the Ulul Amre of the time is the Caliph. Now those who use their influence and take up arms against the rightly guided Caliph and the Ulul Amre of the time, those who use means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met are known as terrorists/outlaws regardless of their personality or prestige status. Stick to these facts.”

Go on then Nuwera was the first terrorist scum go on then dimwit call him for who he was.

Dimwit and his double standards 😁

"Don’t worry bout me kid you are stuck in your straight jacket till death, especially if you have beliefs of super humans and a human still living hiding in fear coz god made it so"

And you're stuck in your straight jacket till death, and that is the unfortunate incident in Saqifa were an immature and illegitimate decision was reached by just a handful of people with no authority what so ever on behalf on anyone. You follow your belief and we follow ours. Why don't you leave it till that then. What's bothering you about us. We don't give two monkeys about you and what you believe in.

"Khalid bin Waleed ra is in heaven and He is loved and respected by all Muslims 1.6 billion of us, ahlu sunnah love him and ahlu sunnah love Him and hate Nuweara the “terrorist”

Is he 😊 Who told you that? 😊 So you decide who's in heaven and who ain't? Umar wanted him published, Abu Bakr thought he made a grave mistake by acting hastily, he captured and took hostage Malik and his tribes men (companions of the Prophet s.a.w), accused them and beheaded them. No trial, no judge, no jury, no justice no nothing. And you think he's in heaven for that. 😊

This is the problem with your kind, you're in favouritism and personality worship. You're actually blind.

"No one gives a crap about Nuwera, you can keep him and his love for sajjah, he quickly forgot about the real prophet pbuh after He passed away and joined sajjah"

Reality and facts do. Malik along with his tribes men were killed unlawfully. It was definitely manslaughter if not murder. You can't run from this kid 😊

"Go on then Nuwera was the first terrorist scum go on then dimwit call him for who he was"

Why was he a scum? And what about those who used means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met and took up arms against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time 😊

I'm not going to let you run from this kido 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 11, 2020, 11:34:36 AM
"Don’t worry bout me kid you are stuck in your straight jacket till death, especially if you have beliefs of super humans and a human still living hiding in fear coz god made it so"

And you're stuck in your straight jacket till death, and that is the unfortunate incident in Saqifa were an immature and illegitimate decision was reached by just a handful of people with no authority what so ever on behalf on anyone. You follow your belief and we follow ours. Why don't you leave it till that then. What's bothering you about us. We don't give two monkeys about you and what you believe in.

"Khalid bin Waleed ra is in heaven and He is loved and respected by all Muslims 1.6 billion of us, ahlu sunnah love him and ahlu sunnah love Him and hate Nuweara the “terrorist”

Is he 😊 Who told you that? 😊 So you decide who's in heaven and who ain't? Umar wanted him published, Abu Bakr thought he made a grave mistake by acting hastily, he captured and took hostage Malik and his tribes men (companions of the Prophet s.a.w), accused them and beheaded them. No trial, no judge, no jury, no justice no nothing. And you think he's in heaven for that. 😊

This is the problem with your kind, you're in favouritism and personality worship. You're actually blind.

"No one gives a crap about Nuwera, you can keep him and his love for sajjah, he quickly forgot about the real prophet pbuh after He passed away and joined sajjah"

Reality and facts do. Malik along with his tribes men were killed unlawfully. It was definitely manslaughter if not murder. You can't run from this kid 😊

"Go on then Nuwera was the first terrorist scum go on then dimwit call him for who he was"

Why was he a scum? And what about those who used means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met and took up arms against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time 😊

I'm not going to let you run from this kido 😊

You do give two monkeys about us this is why you are a member here and posting.  Look even saqifa gets you twisted it’s saqifa this saqifa that oh everything rotates around saqifa, you keep banging on about saqifa that it burns you lol, get over it the event has passed try coming with something better.......if you can.

Nothing is bothering me about a fake made up sect that has no root in Quran or sunnah, this is a site to counter Shiite lies if you didn’t know so I didn’t join here to leave it at that kid. And it’s not my fault you cannot provide clear proofs and and answers.

Oh yes Alhamdulillah He is in highest heaven and there is NOTHING you can do or say apart from cry and complain about a companion loved and respected by BILLIONS.
Only the mentally deranged have issues with The Sword of Allah swt.

As for personality worship lol you are number 1 for it we don’t add divinity to persons and use them as forms of worship like  Abdullah ibn Saba', who may have denied that Ali had died and predicting his return (rajʿa), don’t deny your real history kid.

You can defend and personally worship Nuwera the believer in a prophet after Nabi Muhammed pbuh, you can love and worship Murtad that’s your prerogative but you have nothing on Khalid ra, Alhamdulillah, it will hurt we know but truth is bitter you have to admit.

Look how twisted you are and backed into a corner your nonsense is hypocritical at best to the point you are stuck in your own stupidity........it was you who stated anyone fighting against a khaliph is a terrorist so I just turned it around to that scum and look at you.

Gotta take my hat off to your stupidity kid.👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 11, 2020, 05:16:39 PM
You do give two monkeys about us this is why you are a member here and posting.  Look even saqifa gets you twisted it’s saqifa this saqifa that oh everything rotates around saqifa, you keep banging on about saqifa that it burns you lol, get over it the event has passed try coming with something better.......if you can.

Nothing is bothering me about a fake made up sect that has no root in Quran or sunnah, this is a site to counter Shiite lies if you didn’t know so I didn’t join here to leave it at that kid. And it’s not my fault you cannot provide clear proofs and and answers.

Oh yes Alhamdulillah He is in highest heaven and there is NOTHING you can do or say apart from cry and complain about a companion loved and respected by BILLIONS.
Only the mentally deranged have issues with The Sword of Allah swt.

As for personality worship lol you are number 1 for it we don’t add divinity to persons and use them as forms of worship like  Abdullah ibn Saba', who may have denied that Ali had died and predicting his return (rajʿa), don’t deny your real history kid.

You can defend and personally worship Nuwera the believer in a prophet after Nabi Muhammed pbuh, you can love and worship Murtad that’s your prerogative but you have nothing on Khalid ra, Alhamdulillah, it will hurt we know but truth is bitter you have to admit.

Look how twisted you are and backed into a corner your nonsense is hypocritical at best to the point you are stuck in your own stupidity........it was you who stated anyone fighting against a khaliph is a terrorist so I just turned it around to that scum and look at you.

Gotta take my hat off to your stupidity kid.👍

"You do give two monkeys about us this is why you are a member here and posting"

I'm just here dealing with your propaganda against the Shia faith and community. Your constant mischief to try and put people off the Shia faith and belief by taking bits and pieces to paint a bad picture.

"Look even saqifa gets you twisted it’s saqifa this saqifa that oh everything rotates around saqifa, you keep banging on about saqifa that it burns you lol,"

It's burned Islam and Muslims. Since Muslims (certain Companions) took the matter into their own hands at Saqifa since then onwards people have been taking matters into their own hands and trying to do what they think and assume is better and look where we are today. How bad Islam and Muslims are looked at. All because of Saqifa. And your kind trying to justify it. 😊


"get over it the event has passed try coming with something better.......if you can"

If it was an event based on public gathering according to principles based on fairness and equality to select and chose a leader to govern the Ummah then it would be accepted and gotten over with. But in reality and according to facts it was an unfortunate incident. The three Muhajir rushed off to saqifa to stop something terrible from happening. It was unfortunate, coincidental and immature. Is this how leadership is decided and how leaders are chosen. 😊 No one can run from reality or hide from facts 😊

"Nothing is bothering me about a fake made up sect that has no root in Quran or sunna"

Our faith and belief is based on and according to Qur'an and Sunnah. Allah has put someone in third in line in authority after him and his Messenger s.a.w. and in that sequence. When ever and where ever in the Qur'an Allah has mentioned and announced third in line in authority Allah has started with himself then his Messenger s.a.w followed by the announcement of third in line. And that's what we follow and believe in.

"And it’s not my fault you cannot provide clear proofs and and answers"

I've provided you with clear proofs and definite answers. But you don't have an open mind nor do you want to think rationally. You speak with a mindset. And that is to reject everything that goes against the Shaykhain and refute everything that is threatening towards them.

"it was you who stated anyone fighting against a khaliph is a terrorist"

😊 Nope. The true and exact definition of a terrorist is a person or group who aren't in authority and white use means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met. Now those who did this and took up arms against the 4th truly and rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time acording to the Ahle Sunnah how would you take them. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 11, 2020, 05:52:50 PM
"You can defend and personally worship Nuwera the believer in a prophet after Nabi Muhammed pbuh, you can love and worship Murtad that’s your prerogative"

Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were accused of this that and the other. Where was the trial? Where was justice during Abu Bakr's Caliphate? Do you accuse someone of something or hear something about someone and take them prisoners then execute over night?😊 Is this your Caliphate system? Is this system that ISIS wanted to implement?😊

As far as Malik bin Nuwayrah is concerned go do some homework by reading your own books and you'll be amazed at what you'll find. There's mixed reports. The bottom line is facts. And here they are again, was Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men put on trial? They were accuse of this that and the other, but did they get a fair trial? A fair hearing? Nope 😊

Khalid ibn Waleed didn't want that. Because he knew what the outcome of that trial would be. Khalid bin Waleed ordered their arrest and beheaded them. He knew what he wanted. By putting someone on trial you get justice, not what you want.


"but you have nothing on Khalid ra, Alhamdulillah, it will hurt we know but truth is bitter you have to admit"

Khalid was responsible for murder. If not murder then manslaughter. Companions of the Prophet s.a.w like Abu Qatadah reported Khalid to Abu Bakr. Umar wanted Khalid to be punished for what he did. Abu Bakr summoned Khalid and questioned him. Then decided that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed unlawfully. Blood money was given. Read the reports and then come out with a clear and clean statement. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 12, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
"You do give two monkeys about us this is why you are a member here and posting"

I'm just here dealing with your propaganda against the Shia faith and community. Your constant mischief to try and put people off the Shia faith and belief by taking bits and pieces to paint a bad picture.

"Look even saqifa gets you twisted it’s saqifa this saqifa that oh everything rotates around saqifa, you keep banging on about saqifa that it burns you lol,"

It's burned Islam and Muslims. Since Muslims (certain Companions) took the matter into their own hands at Saqifa since then onwards people have been taking matters into their own hands and trying to do what they think and assume is better and look where we are today. How bad Islam and Muslims are looked at. All because of Saqifa. And your kind trying to justify it. 😊


"get over it the event has passed try coming with something better.......if you can"

If it was an event based on public gathering according to principles based on fairness and equality to select and chose a leader to govern the Ummah then it would be accepted and gotten over with. But in reality and according to facts it was an unfortunate incident. The three Muhajir rushed off to saqifa to stop something terrible from happening. It was unfortunate, coincidental and immature. Is this how leadership is decided and how leaders are chosen. 😊 No one can run from reality or hide from facts 😊

"Nothing is bothering me about a fake made up sect that has no root in Quran or sunna"

Our faith and belief is based on and according to Qur'an and Sunnah. Allah has put someone in third in line in authority after him and his Messenger s.a.w. and in that sequence. When ever and where ever in the Qur'an Allah has mentioned and announced third in line in authority Allah has started with himself then his Messenger s.a.w followed by the announcement of third in line. And that's what we follow and believe in.

"And it’s not my fault you cannot provide clear proofs and and answers"

I've provided you with clear proofs and definite answers. But you don't have an open mind nor do you want to think rationally. You speak with a mindset. And that is to reject everything that goes against the Shaykhain and refute everything that is threatening towards them.

"it was you who stated anyone fighting against a khaliph is a terrorist"

😊 Nope. The true and exact definition of a terrorist is a person or group who aren't in authority and white use means of violence and threatening behaviour just to have their demands met. Now those who did this and took up arms against the 4th truly and rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and the Ulul Amre of the time acording to the Ahle Sunnah how would you take them. 😊

Lol you think this website is successful in creating doubts in Shiite minds?? Lol fools like you don’t grow on trees kid do they😆
It’s not the website it’s more ........”common sense”!
As for painting a bad picture lol, you are doing a great job in that yourself especially with your hypocrisy on issues relating to shiism and Iran, you truly are the great Shiite hypocrite and your shiites are watching and reading your tripe only they won’t stick up for you and will leave you in your straight jacket.😆

It’s not our fault no divine imam ruled for shiites I am sorry but do complain to the Almighty for this in the meantime Alhamdulillah Allah The Almighty swt blessed the muslims after saqifa and we took Islam to every corner of the globe.
You can sit at home on your pc and cry and moan and lie about history all you want but saqifa ruled over divine leadership.
As for Muslim nations now they follow democracy just like Shiite Iran wether by dictatorship or elected, there is no shura like saqifa instead you have rich corrupt people leading Muslim nations, this is why we are falling.
Saqifa has got you in a right tailspin kid get over it move on be a good Muslim and show the way. I forgot you can’t do nothing until there is a divine imam present.😆

Kid there is no 3rd entity it’s only Allah swt and His Rasul pbuh it’s been this way for a millennia, no imam made a divine call it’s only the foolish supporters who needed to add in the concept to differentiate from mainstream orthodox Islam.......you changed your Islam to add in divinity to humans without clear evidence from Quran.

Right, for me to have an open mind according iceman is to believe his garbage that verses in Quran that are not clear and direct are pointing to divine leadership I just have to “stretch” my imagination and add in the concept like verse of Ibrahim as just coz the word imam is there and it’s AFTER prophethood that it must be a higher station, disregarding facts like Muhammed pbuh was never or mentioned Himself of being or rising upto a divine imam AFTER prophethood or that His offspring ahlu baith ra never did any tests but they got automatic promotion without trials.
This is the nonsense you keep peddling kid.

See what kind of a fool you are honestly I didn’t need to know the definition of a terrorist, you portrayed anyone fighting a khaliph as a terrorist, my answer to that nonsense was that Nuwera fought against a khaliph too, so is Nuwera in that category too? Otherwise you are HYPOCRITE!

Do you read what you post kid?
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 12, 2020, 06:06:18 PM
"You can defend and personally worship Nuwera the believer in a prophet after Nabi Muhammed pbuh, you can love and worship Murtad that’s your prerogative"

Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were accused of this that and the other. Where was the trial? Where was justice during Abu Bakr's Caliphate? Do you accuse someone of something or hear something about someone and take them prisoners then execute over night?😊 Is this your Caliphate system? Is this system that ISIS wanted to implement?😊

As far as Malik bin Nuwayrah is concerned go do some homework by reading your own books and you'll be amazed at what you'll find. There's mixed reports. The bottom line is facts. And here they are again, was Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men put on trial? They were accuse of this that and the other, but did they get a fair trial? A fair hearing? Nope 😊

Khalid ibn Waleed didn't want that. Because he knew what the outcome of that trial would be. Khalid bin Waleed ordered their arrest and beheaded them. He knew what he wanted. By putting someone on trial you get justice, not what you want.


"but you have nothing on Khalid ra, Alhamdulillah, it will hurt we know but truth is bitter you have to admit"

Khalid was responsible for murder. If not murder then manslaughter. Companions of the Prophet s.a.w like Abu Qatadah reported Khalid to Abu Bakr. Umar wanted Khalid to be punished for what he did. Abu Bakr summoned Khalid and questioned him. Then decided that Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed unlawfully. Blood money was given. Read the reports and then come out with a clear and clean statement. 😊

Nuwera got what he deserved he was following sajjah and made a pact he was a murtad, I didn’t know you loved Murtads that much,infact you should defend all murtads instead of just one.
Be the man who stands up for the rights of murtads all over the world.👍
As for isis they are same as hizbullah just blood loving killing innocent terrorists that need to be annihilated.
It’s a pity you will never be honest and say it as it is about Shiite hizbullah terrorism because you are a two faced dimwit.

No mixed reports according to Ahlu sunnah we respect and love Abu Bakr ra and any decision He made as khaliph on Khalid bin Waleed ra we agree with wholeheartedly.
At the end Umar ra agreed even if He was against it, yet here you are crying over spilt milk while the issues have been dealt with many centuries ago,this is proof of how butthurt you are about saqifa and issues from a millennia ago that you just can’t let it go.



Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Soccer on March 12, 2020, 11:00:50 PM
Nuwera got what he deserved he was following sajjah and made a pact he was a murtad, I didn’t know you loved Murtads that much,infact you should defend all murtads instead of just one.
Be the man who stands up for the rights of murtads all over the world.👍
As for isis they are same as hizbullah just blood loving killing innocent terrorists that need to be annihilated.
It’s a pity you will never be honest and say it as it is about Shiite hizbullah terrorism because you are a two faced dimwit.

No mixed reports according to Ahlu sunnah we respect and love Abu Bakr ra and any decision He made as khaliph on Khalid bin Waleed ra we agree with wholeheartedly.
At the end Umar ra agreed even if He was against it, yet here you are crying over spilt milk while the issues have been dealt with many centuries ago,this is proof of how butthurt you are about saqifa and issues from a millennia ago that you just can’t let it go.

Quran a lot of is arguing "even if your accusation that Mohammad is forging and is a false Prophet is true, then...", and advocated to be allowed to practice their religion and not be seen as subsect of humans and to let God judge who submits to him and who doesn't.

There is no need to fight fake Prophets or their followers, unless, they are attacking offensively and causing havoc in the land.

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 13, 2020, 03:06:50 AM
Nuwera got what he deserved he was following sajjah and made a pact he was a murtad, I didn’t know you loved Murtads that much,infact you should defend all murtads instead of just one.
Be the man who stands up for the rights of murtads all over the world.👍
As for isis they are same as hizbullah just blood loving killing innocent terrorists that need to be annihilated.
It’s a pity you will never be honest and say it as it is about Shiite hizbullah terrorism because you are a two faced dimwit.

No mixed reports according to Ahlu sunnah we respect and love Abu Bakr ra and any decision He made as khaliph on Khalid bin Waleed ra we agree with wholeheartedly.
At the end Umar ra agreed even if He was against it, yet here you are crying over spilt milk while the issues have been dealt with many centuries ago,this is proof of how butthurt you are about saqifa and issues from a millennia ago that you just can’t let it go.

"Nuwera got what he deserved he was following sajjah and made a pact he was a murtad"

Malik

 I didn’t know you loved Murtads that much,infact you should defend all murtads instead of just one.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 13, 2020, 03:33:24 AM
"Nuwera got what he deserved he was following sajjah and made a pact he was a murtad"

Malik

 I didn’t know you loved Murtads that much,infact you should defend all murtads instead of just one.

Nuwera got what he deserved he was following sajjah and made a pact he was a murtad"

Malik bin Nuwayrah was a companion of the Prophet s.a.w. After the death of the Prophet s.a.w a companion went astray and became Murtad according to you. So companions can become Murtad. We're does takfeer on sahaba go then? 😀 I thought you were the lovers and protectors of sahaba 😊 So if you believe in a Sahabi going Murtad and that ain't takfeer on sahaba, so what problem do you have with certain Shias believing in companions going astray 😊

"I didn’t know you loved Murtads that much"

And I didn't know you sent takfeer on a Sahabi 😀 You actually believe a Sahabi went astray.

"Infact you should defend all murtads instead of just one"

Lol. And you should defend all Companions instead of just a desired handful 😀

"Be the man who stands up for the rights of murtads all over the world"

Be the person who loves all the companions instead of just a desired few 😀

"As for isis they are same as hizbullah"

Nope. ISIS want to implement Caliphate by force just as the decision made in Saqifa was implemented. Consultation no where to be seen. Just a handful of people be it Abu Bakr Al Bahgdadi or Abu Bakr Ibne Kuafa. 😊

"No mixed reports according to Ahlu sunnah we respect and love Abu Bakr ra and any decision He made as khaliph"

The decision Abu Bakr made was that Khalid ibn Waleed made a grave mistake and acted hastily. So was the killing of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men murder or manslaughter? 😊

"on Khalid bin Waleed ra we agree with wholeheartedly"

Agree on what wholeheartedly? You arrest companions of the Prophet s.a.w, take them as prisoners, accuse them of being murtad then behead them overnight. No trial no nothing? You call this Islam of Muhammad s.a.w or Islam of Abu Bakr? Or do you deep down really believe that Khalid acted hastily and alone according to his own will and desire but are too afraid to admit it 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 13, 2020, 03:41:25 AM
Point to be noted people, Malik bin Nuwayrah was a companion of the Prophet s.a.w. After the Prophet's s.a.w death Malik bin Nuwayrah was accused of becoming a murtad a disbeliever. Malik and his tribes men were arrested on the orders of Khalid ibn Waleed. They weren't escorted and brought before the first Caliph Abu Bakr to be judged and put on trial. Infact Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed overnight without any trial what so ever. They were accused, arrested and beheaded overnight. Ask yourselves, what kind of Islam is this? Is this the Islam Muhammad s.a.w introduced? Or the ways of Caliphate after Muhammad s.a.w?

Sunni View

When arrested, Malik was asked by Khalid about his crimes. Malik's response was "your master said this your master said that" referring to the caliph Abu bakr. Khalid declared Malik a rebel apostate and ordered his execution and then married his wife, Layla bint al-Minhal. Although Shia claim that Khalid married his wife on the same night, the Sunni argue that Islamically, Khalid would have had to wait for her to complete the waiting period or iddah of a widow which is four months and ten days before he would have been able to marry her. Abu Qatada al-Ansari was a companion of Muhammad who accompanied Khalid from Medina. He was so shocked at Malik's murder by Khalid that he immediately returned to Medina telling Abu Bakr that he would not serve under a commander who had killed a Muslim..The death of Malik and Khalid's taking of his wife, Layla, created a controversy. Some officers of his army including a prominent companion of Muhammad, Abu Qatadah.believed that Khalid killed Malik to take his wife. After the pressure exerted by Umar. Khalid's cousin and one of Caliph Abu Bakr's main advisors Abu Bakr called Khalid back to Madina to explain himself.

Umar demanded from Abu Bakr the immediate dismissal of Khalid. He said that Khalid had to be put on trial for the twin crimes of murder and adultery. According to Islamic law, Khalid had to be stoned to death. But Abu Bakr defended Khalid, and said that he had simply made "an error of judgment and how can I punish the one whose sword is praised by Allah"

What really happened. What ever really happened one thing is straight, Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men should have been arrested and taken before the first Caliph to be explained why they were arrested and on what charges. They should have been put on trial and then judged fairly based on Islamic principles and human rights instead of being accused, arrested then executed.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 13, 2020, 10:17:17 AM
Point to be noted people, Malik bin Nuwayrah was a companion of the Prophet s.a.w. After the Prophet's s.a.w death Malik bin Nuwayrah was accused of becoming a murtad a disbeliever. Malik and his tribes men were arrested on the orders of Khalid ibn Waleed. They weren't escorted and brought before the first Caliph Abu Bakr to be judged and put on trial. Infact Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed overnight without any trial what so ever. They were accused, arrested and beheaded overnight. Ask yourselves, what kind of Islam is this? Is this the Islam Muhammad s.a.w introduced? Or the ways of Caliphate after Muhammad s.a.w?

Sunni View

When arrested, Malik was asked by Khalid about his crimes. Malik's response was "your master said this your master said that" referring to the caliph Abu bakr. Khalid declared Malik a rebel apostate and ordered his execution and then married his wife, Layla bint al-Minhal. Although Shia claim that Khalid married his wife on the same night, the Sunni argue that Islamically, Khalid would have had to wait for her to complete the waiting period or iddah of a widow which is four months and ten days before he would have been able to marry her. Abu Qatada al-Ansari was a companion of Muhammad who accompanied Khalid from Medina. He was so shocked at Malik's murder by Khalid that he immediately returned to Medina telling Abu Bakr that he would not serve under a commander who had killed a Muslim..The death of Malik and Khalid's taking of his wife, Layla, created a controversy. Some officers of his army including a prominent companion of Muhammad, Abu Qatadah.believed that Khalid killed Malik to take his wife. After the pressure exerted by Umar. Khalid's cousin and one of Caliph Abu Bakr's main advisors Abu Bakr called Khalid back to Madina to explain himself.

Umar demanded from Abu Bakr the immediate dismissal of Khalid. He said that Khalid had to be put on trial for the twin crimes of murder and adultery. According to Islamic law, Khalid had to be stoned to death. But Abu Bakr defended Khalid, and said that he had simply made "an error of judgment and how can I punish the one whose sword is praised by Allah"

What really happened. What ever really happened one thing is straight, Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men should have been arrested and taken before the first Caliph to be explained why they were arrested and on what charges. They should have been put on trial and then judged fairly based on Islamic principles and human rights instead of being accused, arrested then executed.


Why did you miss out sajjah encounter? Did you mention Khalid Bin Waleed ra and the Muslim army reading adhaan? Nuwera didn’t come out!
Did you mention Nuwera not wanting to give zakah and returned the goods back to the owners?
Khalid ra gave him chances aplenty yet the murtad didn’t answer call to prayer so he didn’t want to talk with the khaliph the stubborn murtad instead joined forces with a kafir.

Now that is a terrorist as you interpreted to us if anyone fights a khaliph.

Come on now man up and say it as you said it is.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 13, 2020, 10:38:45 AM
Point to be noted people, Malik bin Nuwayrah was a companion of the Prophet s.a.w. After the Prophet's s.a.w death Malik bin Nuwayrah was accused of becoming a murtad a disbeliever. Malik and his tribes men were arrested on the orders of Khalid ibn Waleed. They weren't escorted and brought before the first Caliph Abu Bakr to be judged and put on trial. Infact Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were killed overnight without any trial what so ever. They were accused, arrested and beheaded overnight. Ask yourselves, what kind of Islam is this? Is this the Islam Muhammad s.a.w introduced? Or the ways of Caliphate after Muhammad s.a.w?

Sunni View

When arrested, Malik was asked by Khalid about his crimes. Malik's response was "your master said this your master said that" referring to the caliph Abu bakr. Khalid declared Malik a rebel apostate and ordered his execution and then married his wife, Layla bint al-Minhal. Although Shia claim that Khalid married his wife on the same night, the Sunni argue that Islamically, Khalid would have had to wait for her to complete the waiting period or iddah of a widow which is four months and ten days before he would have been able to marry her. Abu Qatada al-Ansari was a companion of Muhammad who accompanied Khalid from Medina. He was so shocked at Malik's murder by Khalid that he immediately returned to Medina telling Abu Bakr that he would not serve under a commander who had killed a Muslim..The death of Malik and Khalid's taking of his wife, Layla, created a controversy. Some officers of his army including a prominent companion of Muhammad, Abu Qatadah.believed that Khalid killed Malik to take his wife. After the pressure exerted by Umar. Khalid's cousin and one of Caliph Abu Bakr's main advisors Abu Bakr called Khalid back to Madina to explain himself.

Umar demanded from Abu Bakr the immediate dismissal of Khalid. He said that Khalid had to be put on trial for the twin crimes of murder and adultery. According to Islamic law, Khalid had to be stoned to death. But Abu Bakr defended Khalid, and said that he had simply made "an error of judgment and how can I punish the one whose sword is praised by Allah"

What really happened. What ever really happened one thing is straight, Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men should have been arrested and taken before the first Caliph to be explained why they were arrested and on what charges. They should have been put on trial and then judged fairly based on Islamic principles and human rights instead of being accused, arrested then executed.

One big point to be noted which a certain individual won’t entertain because he knows Nuwera turned apostate.........Sajjah!!!

So come on now man up and call this murtad a terrorist who fights khaliphs as per your understanding or are you a hypocrite?
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 15, 2020, 04:53:59 AM
One big point to be noted which a certain individual won’t entertain because he knows Nuwera turned apostate.........Sajjah!!!

So come on now man up and call this murtad a terrorist who fights khaliphs as per your understanding or are you a hypocrite?

He didn't fight any Caliph kid. Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were accused of being apostate and executed overnight. There was no fight and no trial. That was the Islam of Khalid. And you do believe that companions can become apostate. You can accuse companions of becoming apostate but when others do then you have a problem 😊 Double standards kid double standards.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 15, 2020, 11:55:57 AM
He didn't fight any Caliph kid. Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were accused of being apostate and executed overnight. There was no fight and no trial. That was the Islam of Khalid. And you do believe that companions can become apostate. You can accuse companions of becoming apostate but when others do then you have a problem 😊 Double standards kid double standards.

And........sajjah? 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 15, 2020, 12:16:33 PM
He didn't fight any Caliph kid. Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men were accused of being apostate and executed overnight. There was no fight and no trial. That was the Islam of Khalid. And you do believe that companions can become apostate. You can accuse companions of becoming apostate but when others do then you have a problem 😊 Double standards kid double standards.

Look at your double standards anything bad about say......Iran,hizbullah,shiism and it’s heroes equals hate.

You are crap at answering facts but love fairytales and stories.

I wonder why you keep skipping sajjah the prophet whom Malik the apostate joined with to fight the Muslims, just like you NEVER answer to facts relating to Iran (Iran contra being one where your facts rely on a reporter 😁) as well as atrocities of Shiite militias.

You are a real true 12’r Shiite spreading hate and false information and I love catching you out kid, infact you are that easy that you AVOID certain questions that you can’t answer.

What do you call a person who follows another prophet/leader???

Come on hypocrite kid according to icemans theory......ANYONE fighting a khaliph is a terrorist!
Ok don’t call him a terrorist we know you talk wind but what do you say about him following and making a pact with a kaffira to attack Madina?

Shiism = hypocrisy according to icemans answers.

Thanks kid for making that clear.👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 16, 2020, 12:19:53 AM
Look at your double standards anything bad about say......Iran,hizbullah,shiism and it’s heroes equals hate.

You are crap at answering facts but love fairytales and stories.

I wonder why you keep skipping sajjah the prophet whom Malik the apostate joined with to fight the Muslims, just like you NEVER answer to facts relating to Iran (Iran contra being one where your facts rely on a reporter 😁) as well as atrocities of Shiite militias.

You are a real true 12’r Shiite spreading hate and false information and I love catching you out kid, infact you are that easy that you AVOID certain questions that you can’t answer.

What do you call a person who follows another prophet/leader???

Come on hypocrite kid according to icemans theory......ANYONE fighting a khaliph is a terrorist!
Ok don’t call him a terrorist we know you talk wind but what do you say about him following and making a pact with a kaffira to attack Madina?

Shiism = hypocrisy according to icemans answers.

Thanks kid for making that clear.👍

"Look at your double standards anything bad about say......Iran,hizbullah,shiism and it’s heroes equals hate"

Lol. Anything good, useful and positive say......Iran,hizbullah,shiism? You can't come up with a single thing that is good then why are you asking 😊 It's all in your hands.

"I wonder why you keep skipping sajjah the prophet whom Malik the apostate joined with to fight the Muslims"

You got clear proof for this accusation on a Sahabi? And while you're at it do dwell on, this means that the Sahaba can go astray and become apostates. But only according to you and when it suits you. And not anyone else. 😊

"(Iran contra being one where your facts rely on a reporter 😁)"

When the Iranian minister said that no one helped them, no one was willing to sell a single weapon to them, why didn't the reporter stop the Minister by saying "hang on" and point out the contra affair? You were quick to mention it 😊

"You are a real true 12’r Shiite spreading hate and false information"

Nope. Your kind are doing it. And against us and our community. We're just challenging you on your malicious lies. It's the bad picture you're trying to paint about us which I'm wiping out so you don't mislead people about us.

"I love catching you out kid, infact you are that easy that you AVOID certain questions that you can’t answer"

😀 Where have you caught me out. What questions 😊 You don't even know your own history and bits and pieces about what you believe in historically.

"What do you call a person who follows another prophet/leader???"

Prove to me in black and white based on clear reports who followed......another prophet/leader???

And also accept based on your own opinion and belief that companions of the Prophet s.a.w can go astray after him regardless of who they are.

"ANYONE fighting a khaliph is a terrorist!"

What's the definition of a terrorist? Don't be afraid. Answer up. And those who weren't in authority and who raised arms against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and according to the Ahle Sunnah who was the Ulul Amre of the time, what would you call them? Where would you put them? 😊 You have no principles, therefore no standards.

"Ok don’t call him a terrorist we know you talk wind but what do you say about him following and making a pact with a kaffira to attack Madina?"

Can you prove this accusation from clear reports? So far you're all talk 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 16, 2020, 12:23:12 AM
And........sajjah? 😊

Why leap without answering and addressing first. 😊 You're so quick to rush forward just to save yourself. 😊 And what about Sajjah? 😊

"Khalid declared Malik a rebel apostate and ordered his execution. Khalid ordered Malik's killing because in his view Malik had betrayed the Islamic state of Madinah. He ordered the execution"

But Khalid didn't arrest Malik and had him put on trial to be judged fairly by the Caliph, WHY? Ask yourself 'IS THIS ISLAM?' 'WAS THIS THE WAY OF THE PROPHET S.A.W?"
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 16, 2020, 12:31:35 AM
https://mahajjah.com/khalid-bin-walid-and-the-alledged-killing-of-malik-bin-nuwayrah/#
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 19, 2020, 04:03:29 PM
"Look at your double standards anything bad about say......Iran,hizbullah,shiism and it’s heroes equals hate"

Lol. Anything good, useful and positive say......Iran,hizbullah,shiism? You can't come up with a single thing that is good then why are you asking 😊 It's all in your hands.

"I wonder why you keep skipping sajjah the prophet whom Malik the apostate joined with to fight the Muslims"

You got clear proof for this accusation on a Sahabi? And while you're at it do dwell on, this means that the Sahaba can go astray and become apostates. But only according to you and when it suits you. And not anyone else. 😊

"(Iran contra being one where your facts rely on a reporter 😁)"

When the Iranian minister said that no one helped them, no one was willing to sell a single weapon to them, why didn't the reporter stop the Minister by saying "hang on" and point out the contra affair? You were quick to mention it 😊

"You are a real true 12’r Shiite spreading hate and false information"

Nope. Your kind are doing it. And against us and our community. We're just challenging you on your malicious lies. It's the bad picture you're trying to paint about us which I'm wiping out so you don't mislead people about us.

"I love catching you out kid, infact you are that easy that you AVOID certain questions that you can’t answer"

😀 Where have you caught me out. What questions 😊 You don't even know your own history and bits and pieces about what you believe in historically.

"What do you call a person who follows another prophet/leader???"

Prove to me in black and white based on clear reports who followed......another prophet/leader???

And also accept based on your own opinion and belief that companions of the Prophet s.a.w can go astray after him regardless of who they are.

"ANYONE fighting a khaliph is a terrorist!"

What's the definition of a terrorist? Don't be afraid. Answer up. And those who weren't in authority and who raised arms against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims and according to the Ahle Sunnah who was the Ulul Amre of the time, what would you call them? Where would you put them? 😊 You have no principles, therefore no standards.

"Ok don’t call him a terrorist we know you talk wind but what do you say about him following and making a pact with a kaffira to attack Madina?"

Can you prove this accusation from clear reports? So far you're all talk 😊

It’s not my fault you deny facts in reality it’s true in your imaginative mind it’s false, get some real education instead of selective learning.

Got proof for what? Sajjah? Yeah. Sahaba are human and can make mistakes and err, we don’t put divinity on them like some groups do.

Your evidence rests on an answer from a reporter lol go to that reporter and ask her why she didn’t mention that fact. As well as knowing mans are divine you can also read minds, I wonder if you are superhuman Shiite imam yourself.😁

You do lie without it you would be a Muslim and not a Shiite.

I caught you out on sajjah, you love a murtad who disrespected the prophethood of Nabi Muhammed pbuh to join with a false prophet, you know this but you won’t answer instead now you are asking for proof, oh my!😁

Still a dimwit number 1!
You called anyone fighting a khaliph as a terrorist now do the same for that murtad Nuwera,kid.
I don’t agree with your assumption, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I don’t agree that anyone fighting a khaliph is a terrorist, that’s YOU who believes that but you will not call a murtad the same because it will hurt your false ideology.
You definitely have no principles when it comes to facts dimwit.

Try reading ibn katheers al-Bidaayah wa’l-Nihaayah to learn some real history kid.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 21, 2020, 03:27:44 PM
It’s not my fault you deny facts in reality it’s true in your imaginative mind it’s false, get some real education instead of selective learning.

Got proof for what? Sajjah? Yeah. Sahaba are human and can make mistakes and err, we don’t put divinity on them like some groups do.

Your evidence rests on an answer from a reporter lol go to that reporter and ask her why she didn’t mention that fact. As well as knowing mans are divine you can also read minds, I wonder if you are superhuman Shiite imam yourself.😁

You do lie without it you would be a Muslim and not a Shiite.

I caught you out on sajjah, you love a murtad who disrespected the prophethood of Nabi Muhammed pbuh to join with a false prophet, you know this but you won’t answer instead now you are asking for proof, oh my!😁

Still a dimwit number 1!
You called anyone fighting a khaliph as a terrorist now do the same for that murtad Nuwera,kid.
I don’t agree with your assumption, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I don’t agree that anyone fighting a khaliph is a terrorist, that’s YOU who believes that but you will not call a murtad the same because it will hurt your false ideology.
You definitely have no principles when it comes to facts dimwit.

Try reading ibn katheers al-Bidaayah wa’l-Nihaayah to learn some real history kid.

"Got proof for what? Sajjah? Yeah. Sahaba are human and can make mistakes and err, we don’t put divinity on them like some groups do"

Ok. Then when some Shias put serious mistakes and errors or wrong doings of certain Sahaba especially the Shaykhain forward them why do people from your end start jumping up and down over it. 😊 If you can accuse a Sahabi of becoming an apostate and don't loose any sweat over it then why can't a person accuse a Sahabi of becoming or being a hypocrite without you loosing sleep over it. 😊 What's takfeer on Sahaba all about then. 😊 And the verses you put forward in praise and favour of the Sahaba and their salvation why doesn't that apply to Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. 😊 Why does those verse only apply to certain Sahaba. 😊 You've got some explaining to do. 😀 I'll always expose your double standards. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 25, 2020, 03:07:44 PM
"Got proof for what? Sajjah? Yeah. Sahaba are human and can make mistakes and err, we don’t put divinity on them like some groups do"

Ok. Then when some Shias put serious mistakes and errors or wrong doings of certain Sahaba especially the Shaykhain forward them why do people from your end start jumping up and down over it. 😊 If you can accuse a Sahabi of becoming an apostate and don't loose any sweat over it then why can't a person accuse a Sahabi of becoming or being a hypocrite without you loosing sleep over it. 😊 What's takfeer on Sahaba all about then. 😊 And the verses you put forward in praise and favour of the Sahaba and their salvation why doesn't that apply to Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. 😊 Why does those verse only apply to certain Sahaba. 😊 You've got some explaining to do. 😀 I'll always expose your double standards. 😊

Oh yea completely go off topic yet again, what’s up with answering why Nuwera made a pact with a kafir?
As for you and your hate for sahaba ra, they at the least NEVER made pact with kaafirs who deem themselves to be prophets, IF they did then yes you have a case and I would have to agree with you, but in reality that’s not the case hence you selectively avoid answering certain questions, instead you ask other questions and it’s the same boring theme for which you have no proof but assumptions against sahaba ra and saqifa.........it’s a recurring theme in all your arguments.

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 27, 2020, 03:52:45 AM
Oh yea completely go off topic yet again, what’s up with answering why Nuwera made a pact with a kafir?
As for you and your hate for sahaba ra, they at the least NEVER made pact with kaafirs who deem themselves to be prophets, IF they did then yes you have a case and I would have to agree with you, but in reality that’s not the case hence you selectively avoid answering certain questions, instead you ask other questions and it’s the same boring theme for which you have no proof but assumptions against sahaba ra and saqifa.........it’s a recurring theme in all your arguments.

"Oh yea completely go off topic yet again"

Lol. Lol again. Look who's talking. 😊 Going off topic is your thing and stance.

"what’s up with answering why Nuwera made a pact with a kafir?"

Did he? 😊 So you're telling me that a well known and noble companion can go, actually did go astray. According to you he became a murtad an apostate. Now that is takfeer on Sahaba, is it not. 😊 So you're clearly accusing a Sahabi of becoming an apostate. But others can't hold companions responsible for their actions or accuse them of being hypocrites. 😊

"As for you and your hate for sahaba"

Lol. You're the one who's showing hate. You're sending takfeer on a Sahabi by accusing him of becoming an apostate. This is serious .😊

"they at the least NEVER made pact with kaafirs who deem themselves to be prophets"

They weren't interested in what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. They caused a fuss and raised their voices to stop anything from being written. They knew what they were doing and so do you. This is just as worse as what you accuse Malik of. Ignoring the Prophet s.a.w. Having no respect for him s.a.w and showing no manners in front of the Prophet s.a.w.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 29, 2020, 02:38:37 PM
"Oh yea completely go off topic yet again"

Lol. Lol again. Look who's talking. 😊 Going off topic is your thing and stance.

"what’s up with answering why Nuwera made a pact with a kafir?"

Did he? 😊 So you're telling me that a well known and noble companion can go, actually did go astray. According to you he became a murtad an apostate. Now that is takfeer on Sahaba, is it not. 😊 So you're clearly accusing a Sahabi of becoming an apostate. But others can't hold companions responsible for their actions or accuse them of being hypocrites. 😊

"As for you and your hate for sahaba"

Lol. You're the one who's showing hate. You're sending takfeer on a Sahabi by accusing him of becoming an apostate. This is serious .😊

"they at the least NEVER made pact with kaafirs who deem themselves to be prophets"

They weren't interested in what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. They caused a fuss and raised their voices to stop anything from being written. They knew what they were doing and so do you. This is just as worse as what you accuse Malik of. Ignoring the Prophet s.a.w. Having no respect for him s.a.w and showing no manners in front of the Prophet s.a.w.

Again.....USTAAD DIMWIT......why are you intentionally ignoring sajjah? That itself is bad and you know it, instead your on a tangent about sahabas going astray or not...lol, great ustaad dimwit.😂

Any sahabi who didn’t pay zakah or followed a false prophetess would NOT be a Muslim never mind being a sahabi ustaad dimwit, we don’t add false divinity to non prophet humans as we keep saying.👍

The last part is not even worth answering it’s just your assumption and conclusion based on you being taught hate for Sunnis as well as your hate for SAQIFA and sahaba ra, 1400 years and the hate is still there and there is nothing you can do apart from cry.😂

Ustaad dimwit 👍

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 29, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
Again.....USTAAD DIMWIT......why are you intentionally ignoring sajjah? That itself is bad and you know it, instead your on a tangent about sahabas going astray or not...lol, great ustaad dimwit.😂

Any sahabi who didn’t pay zakah or followed a false prophetess would NOT be a Muslim never mind being a sahabi ustaad dimwit, we don’t add false divinity to non prophet humans as we keep saying.👍

The last part is not even worth answering it’s just your assumption and conclusion based on you being taught hate for Sunnis as well as your hate for SAQIFA and sahaba ra, 1400 years and the hate is still there and there is nothing you can do apart from cry.😂

Ustaad dimwit 👍

"Again.....USTAAD DIMWIT......why are you intentionally ignoring sajjah? That itself is bad and you know it, instead your on a tangent about sahabas going astray or not...lol, great ustaad dimwit"

I'm not ignoring anyone. 😊 You bang on about Takfeer on sahaba, where does takfeer on sahaba go when it comes to Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. 😊 Can companions go astray or not? You say no when it comes to Shias. But your belief and faith says they can. 😊 So you can accuse infact belief that companions went astray. But when it comes to others you yapp on about Takfeer on sahaba. Just exposing you and your belief. 😊

The point is not Sajjah, what ever character that is you've created here, the point is can Sahaba go astray or not after the death of the Prophet s.a.w? What's your belief. 😊 After answering this which you will never have the courage to do 😊 Then explain takfeer on sahaba. 😊 See how easy it is to catch you out and expose you.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on March 29, 2020, 10:33:01 PM
Again.....USTAAD DIMWIT......why are you intentionally ignoring sajjah? That itself is bad and you know it, instead your on a tangent about sahabas going astray or not...lol, great ustaad dimwit.😂

Any sahabi who didn’t pay zakah or followed a false prophetess would NOT be a Muslim never mind being a sahabi ustaad dimwit, we don’t add false divinity to non prophet humans as we keep saying.👍

The last part is not even worth answering it’s just your assumption and conclusion based on you being taught hate for Sunnis as well as your hate for SAQIFA and sahaba ra, 1400 years and the hate is still there and there is nothing you can do apart from cry.😂

Ustaad dimwit 👍

"Any sahabi who didn’t pay zakah or followed a false prophetess would NOT be a Muslim never mind being a sahabi ustaad dimwit, we don’t add false divinity to non prophet humans as we keep saying"

Any Sahabi who disregards the Prophet s.a.w and doesn't accept what he has to offer and causes a fuss by starting a row infront of the Prophet s.a.w by ranting and raving by raising their voices, if someone wants to call him and those who sided with him hypocrites because of their rejection to what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer and because of their indecent behaviour towards the Prophet s.a.w and in front him then this should be no takfeer on sahaba 😊 If you can accuse a Sahabi of apostasy then others can accuse a Sahabi of hypocrisy. You've given them that right to do so. You can't have it bothways kid. 😊

"The last part is not even worth answering it’s just your assumption and conclusion based on you being taught hate for Sunnis as well as your hate for SAQIFA and sahaba ra, 1400 years and the hate is still there and there is nothing you can do apart from cry"

I don't hate anyone nor do I hate any Sahabi. Never mind about the years. 😊 There is no assumption or conclusion, just a simple question, can a Sahabi go astray or not? If you can accuse a Sahabi of becoming an apostate and by giving a reason then others can accuse a Sahabi of hypocrisy or being an hypocrite and they have a clear reason just like you. 😊 Don't take it personally. Just exposing your double standards 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 02, 2020, 02:31:51 PM
"Any sahabi who didn’t pay zakah or followed a false prophetess would NOT be a Muslim never mind being a sahabi ustaad dimwit, we don’t add false divinity to non prophet humans as we keep saying"

Any Sahabi who disregards the Prophet s.a.w and doesn't accept what he has to offer and causes a fuss by starting a row infront of the Prophet s.a.w by ranting and raving by raising their voices, if someone wants to call him and those who sided with him hypocrites because of their rejection to what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer and because of their indecent behaviour towards the Prophet s.a.w and in front him then this should be no takfeer on sahaba 😊 If you can accuse a Sahabi of apostasy then others can accuse a Sahabi of hypocrisy. You've given them that right to do so. You can't have it bothways kid. 😊

"The last part is not even worth answering it’s just your assumption and conclusion based on you being taught hate for Sunnis as well as your hate for SAQIFA and sahaba ra, 1400 years and the hate is still there and there is nothing you can do apart from cry"

I don't hate anyone nor do I hate any Sahabi. Never mind about the years. 😊 There is no assumption or conclusion, just a simple question, can a Sahabi go astray or not? If you can accuse a Sahabi of becoming an apostate and by giving a reason then others can accuse a Sahabi of hypocrisy or being an hypocrite and they have a clear reason just like you. 😊 Don't take it personally. Just exposing your double standards 😊

Huh?? Ustaad dimwit you have turned to Black Thursday?

RANTING and RAVING??  Oh please do provide us the evidence for such words which you proscribe to an individual which you hate let’s see how fair you are and let’s see your imami diviney justice here.........RANTING/RAVING!!

Any sahaba ra RANTING or RAVING in front of a prophet is wrong no doubt about it, the onus is upon YOU now to provide factual evidence for your assumption.

Ranting and Raving yes wrong but to believe in another prophet?? Come on your not that much of a dimwit to compare the two or are you.....ustaad?😂
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 02, 2020, 02:35:03 PM
"Any sahabi who didn’t pay zakah or followed a false prophetess would NOT be a Muslim never mind being a sahabi ustaad dimwit, we don’t add false divinity to non prophet humans as we keep saying"

Any Sahabi who disregards the Prophet s.a.w and doesn't accept what he has to offer and causes a fuss by starting a row infront of the Prophet s.a.w by ranting and raving by raising their voices, if someone wants to call him and those who sided with him hypocrites because of their rejection to what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer and because of their indecent behaviour towards the Prophet s.a.w and in front him then this should be no takfeer on sahaba 😊 If you can accuse a Sahabi of apostasy then others can accuse a Sahabi of hypocrisy. You've given them that right to do so. You can't have it bothways kid. 😊

"The last part is not even worth answering it’s just your assumption and conclusion based on you being taught hate for Sunnis as well as your hate for SAQIFA and sahaba ra, 1400 years and the hate is still there and there is nothing you can do apart from cry"

I don't hate anyone nor do I hate any Sahabi. Never mind about the years. 😊 There is no assumption or conclusion, just a simple question, can a Sahabi go astray or not? If you can accuse a Sahabi of becoming an apostate and by giving a reason then others can accuse a Sahabi of hypocrisy or being an hypocrite and they have a clear reason just like you. 😊 Don't take it personally. Just exposing your double standards 😊

Yes you do you hate sahaba ra to the point you will LIE about them, I give you one example with your lies against Umar ra and the fake broken ribs fairytale story.

Now you are lying saying Umar ra was RANTING AND RAVING!!

You are lying ustaad and you know it 😜
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 02, 2020, 02:37:22 PM
The ustaad of dimwit Shias can only LIE and if you don’t believe his lies then you are blind Shiite hating person.

😂👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 02, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
The ustaad of dimwit Shias can only LIE and if you don’t believe his lies then you are blind Shiite hating person.

😂👍

What lie? 😊 You are prejudice towards the Shia faith and community. You're bias. And you're completely blind by it. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 02, 2020, 03:44:28 PM
Yes you do you hate sahaba ra to the point you will LIE about them, I give you one example with your lies against Umar ra and the fake broken ribs fairytale story.

Now you are lying saying Umar ra was RANTING AND RAVING!!

You are lying ustaad and you know it 😜

"Yes you do you hate sahaba ra to the point you will LIE about them, I give you one example with your lies against Umar ra and the fake broken ribs fairytale story"

😀 You jump on from one thing on to another. I was talking about the incident of the pen and paper and the stance of some people who actually turned that into an unfortunate incident, and you bring in another subject. 😊

No problem. You can hop and skip, beat around the bush as much as you want but I won't let you escape. You can run all you like but you can't hide. When did I lie about Umar and where 😊 Bring it on. Bring what ever on. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 02, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Yes you do you hate sahaba ra to the point you will LIE about them, I give you one example with your lies against Umar ra and the fake broken ribs fairytale story.

Now you are lying saying Umar ra was RANTING AND RAVING!!

You are lying ustaad and you know it 😜

I didn't lie about Umar or accuse him about any made up fairy tale. But here's something I found on shiachat for you to munch on. 😊

ration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Give a Salawat Here!
Attack On House Of Fatimah By Umar And Abubakr
By awaiter of zuhur, December 15, 2010 in Shia/Sunni Dialogue

awaiter of zuhur     26 awaiter of zuhur
 
Posted December 15, 2010
(bismillah)

I have seen in a topic one said " As for Bibi Fatima (ra) getting injured by Hazrat Umar (ra), it's only in Shia books,"

I will write about injuring of Fatima by Umar according to sunni books. It happened when Abubakr and Umar want Ali to oath Abu bakr: but Ali didn't:

Al-Bukhari narrated:
Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were

informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of
Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,

while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."

Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817

So Abubar send Umar and someones to bring them to oath!

Now let us see what Umar ibn Khattab did on those days. Sunni historians reported that:

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:
"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out
and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni Books References:

- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120

- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975

- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20

- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that:

Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said:

"O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I

loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as

you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble

here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from
setting your house on fire."

Ahl Sunnah references:

- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH

- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,
and pp 19-20
- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

Also it is reported that:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in
your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

Sunni books references:
- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

The historian named the following people among those who attacked the house
of Fatimah to disperse people who sheltered there:

- Umar Ibn al-Khattab

- Khalid Ibn Walid

- Abdurrahman Ibn Ouf
- Thabit Ibn Shammas

- Ziad Ibn Labid
- Muhammad Ibn Maslamah

- Salamah Ibn Salem Ibn Waqash

- Salamah Ibn Aslam

- Usaid Ibn Hozair

- Zaid Ibn Thabit

Lets know more about how done after: :( :mad:

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear
by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I

will burn the house." Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the

house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn't matter to me who is in the

house."

Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20

Also Jouhari in his book said:

"Umar and a few Muslims went to the house of

Fatimah to burn it down and to burn those who were in opposition."

Ibn Shahna said the same statement adding "to burn the house and inhabitants".

Furthermore, it is reported that:

Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told

Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them." Umar brought
fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of

Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?" Umar

replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance
to the Prophet's Caliph."

Sunni reference:

- Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63

- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam
We read on Sahih Bukhari that:
Aisha said:

... Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did

not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after

the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her

at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by

himself.

Sunni references:
- Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English,

v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition #325

Take note that Fatimah was who that holy Prophet (SAWAS) had frequently said:

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111
- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 02, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
Huh?? Ustaad dimwit you have turned to Black Thursday?

RANTING and RAVING??  Oh please do provide us the evidence for such words which you proscribe to an individual which you hate let’s see how fair you are and let’s see your imami diviney justice here.........RANTING/RAVING!!

Any sahaba ra RANTING or RAVING in front of a prophet is wrong no doubt about it, the onus is upon YOU now to provide factual evidence for your assumption.

Ranting and Raving yes wrong but to believe in another prophet?? Come on your not that much of a dimwit to compare the two or are you.....ustaad?😂

You're such a drama queen. 😊 But here goes.

The Holy Prophet (s) requests that writing materials be brought to him
This is what we read in Sahih al-Bukhari as narrated by Ibn 'Abbas:

"When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them"

Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573

"RANTING and RAVING??  Oh please do provide us the evidence for such words"

People explain things using their own words and language just as you or anyone else. 😊 You want to pick and choose the exact words and start playing games around wording. 😊 Evidence or reference is something you've never ever put forward. Answering and explaining is something you've never ever done. But allow me to take you on this.

"When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me."

"When they made much noise" and "quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet"

We read a further account in Sahih al Bukhari as narrated by Sa'id Ibn Jubair, who heard Ibn 'Abbas say:

"Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is?" After that Ibn 'Abbas wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn 'Abbas, "What is (about) Thursday?" He said, "When the condition (i.e. health) of Allah's Apostle deteriorated, he said, 'Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you after which you will never go astray.' The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet, They said, 'What is wrong with him? Do you think he is talking no sense (delirious)? Ask him (to see if he is talking no sense). The Prophet replied, 'Leave me, for I am in a better state than what you are asking me.' Then the Prophet ordered them to do three things saying: 'Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.' The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn 'Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot!.

Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 4 hadith 393

In the English translation of Tabari, the translator has remained faithful to the Arabic text. He narrates from Ibn Abbas: "The Messenger of God said bring me a tablet (lawh) and an inkpot (dawat), so that I can write for you a document, after which you will not go astray". Some people said that the Messenger of God was talking deliriously".
The History of Tabari, Volume 9 translated by Ismail. K. Poonawala p 175

In "Naseem ul Riyadh, Sharra Shifa Qadi Khan" - Volume 1 page 278 we read in Chapter 1 Part 2 Dialogue 2 "Hadhrath Umar [r] said this man is speaking nonsense"

In Deewan ai Muthbeny Sharra Bathian Volume 1 page 9 it is recorded clearly "Umar said on the Prophet's death bed, this man is speaking nonsense".

This should be more than enough to satisfy you 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 05, 2020, 02:42:56 PM
You're such a drama queen. 😊 But here goes.

The Holy Prophet (s) requests that writing materials be brought to him
This is what we read in Sahih al-Bukhari as narrated by Ibn 'Abbas:

"When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them"

Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573

"RANTING and RAVING??  Oh please do provide us the evidence for such words"

People explain things using their own words and language just as you or anyone else. 😊 You want to pick and choose the exact words and start playing games around wording. 😊 Evidence or reference is something you've never ever put forward. Answering and explaining is something you've never ever done. But allow me to take you on this.

"When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me."

"When they made much noise" and "quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet"

We read a further account in Sahih al Bukhari as narrated by Sa'id Ibn Jubair, who heard Ibn 'Abbas say:

"Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is?" After that Ibn 'Abbas wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn 'Abbas, "What is (about) Thursday?" He said, "When the condition (i.e. health) of Allah's Apostle deteriorated, he said, 'Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you after which you will never go astray.' The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet, They said, 'What is wrong with him? Do you think he is talking no sense (delirious)? Ask him (to see if he is talking no sense). The Prophet replied, 'Leave me, for I am in a better state than what you are asking me.' Then the Prophet ordered them to do three things saying: 'Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.' The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn 'Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot!.

Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 4 hadith 393

In the English translation of Tabari, the translator has remained faithful to the Arabic text. He narrates from Ibn Abbas: "The Messenger of God said bring me a tablet (lawh) and an inkpot (dawat), so that I can write for you a document, after which you will not go astray". Some people said that the Messenger of God was talking deliriously".
The History of Tabari, Volume 9 translated by Ismail. K. Poonawala p 175

In "Naseem ul Riyadh, Sharra Shifa Qadi Khan" - Volume 1 page 278 we read in Chapter 1 Part 2 Dialogue 2 "Hadhrath Umar [r] said this man is speaking nonsense"

In Deewan ai Muthbeny Sharra Bathian Volume 1 page 9 it is recorded clearly "Umar said on the Prophet's death bed, this man is speaking nonsense".

This should be more than enough to satisfy you 😊


Lol being called out for changing topic= drama queen😂😂👍

That’s as far as your intellect goes I suppose😁

Now syed ustaad dimwit used the words “ranting and raving” to make it sound as if that’s exactly what Umar ra did, and now syed ustaad dimwit is saying “quarrelling” is the same as ranting and raving?!?!?
Syed ustaad dimwit IF you are gonna use evidence please use the words that are written and NOT assume/add your own words in to make it look more than it is like you do with verses of Quran.👍

Prophet pbuh ordered ALL of them out, syed ustaad dimwit that does include the ahlu baith ra too or did prophet pbuh say everyone else out APART from my ahlu baith?
Again your assumptions are getting the better of you.😜

Look at this syeds proof 😂😂😂👍😂

“In Deewan ai Muthbeny Sharra Bathian Volume 1 page 9 it is recorded clearly "Umar said on the Prophet's death bed, this man is speaking nonsense".”

Can any brother help this Pakistani syed ustaad if the above book is a hadith or not and if it’s authentic, I really do feel sorry for this guy he has nothing but books written centuries later.😂

So now please do provide authentic evidence that Umar ra said such a thing as “nonsense”, I tell you what IF He did us Sunni would be the first to call Him out sahaba or no sahaba and there would be countless books written by scholars who are truthful but the only ones coming with this nonsense is dumb easily refutable 12’rs like yourself who believe in this tripe.👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 05, 2020, 02:52:48 PM
Imam Nawawi states in his sharh of Sahih Muslim;

Secondly, the statement "He is talking nonsense" was *not* uttered by Sayyidina Umar. This is an intentional manipulation aimed at degrading Sayyidina Umar. In Sahih Muslim, Bab Tarak Al Wasiyah, it states:

فقالوا إن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏يهجر

- And they said the Prophet is speaking no sense.

From above we can see that:

[1] It was said by a group of people

[2] No single person is identified as uttering the above statement.

So what does this statement mean and why was it uttered?

Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states:

( أهجر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ) هكذا هو في صحيح مسلم وغيره ( أهجر ) على الاستفهام وهو أصح من رواية : هجر ويهجر ; لأن هذا كله لا يصح منه صلى الله عليه وسلم ; لأن معنى هجر : هذى , وإنما جاء هذا من قائله استفهاما للإنكار على من قال : لا تكتبوا , أي لا تتركوا أمر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وتجعلوه كأمر من هجر في كلامه ; لأنه صلى الله عليه وسلم لا يهجر

That those that wanted to *fulfill* the Prophets request without discussion asked those who were delaying, rhetorically, "Are you saying that the Messenger of Allah does not know what he is saying?" This, is perfectly acceptable and in accordance with the Arabic language.


Look at the lies syed ustaad dimwit is peddling he says Umar ra said it yet the hadith states “They” said it and ustaad dimwit is using not very authentic books to say it was the word nonsense uttered by Umar ra.

Hopefully syed ustaad will relate the Arabic with what he has posted and retake another look at his false accusations on a sahaba.

This is shiism full of hate and lies😂👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 06, 2020, 01:30:49 AM

Lol being called out for changing topic= drama queen😂😂👍

That’s as far as your intellect goes I suppose😁

Now syed ustaad dimwit used the words “ranting and raving” to make it sound as if that’s exactly what Umar ra did, and now syed ustaad dimwit is saying “quarrelling” is the same as ranting and raving?!?!?
Syed ustaad dimwit IF you are gonna use evidence please use the words that are written and NOT assume/add your own words in to make it look more than it is like you do with verses of Quran.👍

Prophet pbuh ordered ALL of them out, syed ustaad dimwit that does include the ahlu baith ra too or did prophet pbuh say everyone else out APART from my ahlu baith?
Again your assumptions are getting the better of you.😜

Look at this syeds proof 😂😂😂👍😂

“In Deewan ai Muthbeny Sharra Bathian Volume 1 page 9 it is recorded clearly "Umar said on the Prophet's death bed, this man is speaking nonsense".”

Can any brother help this Pakistani syed ustaad if the above book is a hadith or not and if it’s authentic, I really do feel sorry for this guy he has nothing but books written centuries later.😂

So now please do provide authentic evidence that Umar ra said such a thing as “nonsense”, I tell you what IF He did us Sunni would be the first to call Him out sahaba or no sahaba and there would be countless books written by scholars who are truthful but the only ones coming with this nonsense is dumb easily refutable 12’rs like yourself who believe in this tripe.👍

Lol. Lol again. You can't save them even if your life depended on it. Umar objected. He ignored the Prophet s.a.w. He advised others otherwise by reminding them that "we have the book of Allah with you. The book of Allah is sufficient for us" therefore completely getting them to ignore the Prophet s.a.w and not bother with what he had to write. You can duck and dive, twist and turn all you like but won't be able to save them from going astray by ignoring the Prophet s.a.w. They abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded in battle the battlefield. They ignored and shunned him here as well. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 07, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Lol. Lol again. You can't save them even if your life depended on it. Umar objected. He ignored the Prophet s.a.w. He advised others otherwise by reminding them that "we have the book of Allah with you. The book of Allah is sufficient for us" therefore completely getting them to ignore the Prophet s.a.w and not bother with what he had to write. You can duck and dive, twist and turn all you like but won't be able to save them from going astray by ignoring the Prophet s.a.w. They abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded in battle the battlefield. They ignored and shunned him here as well. 😊

So you have nothing and you have been CAUGHT lying using unauthentic books to use as your proof that an individual said “nonsense” Alhamdulillah got you again and cornered you for you to come back with your assumptions instead of countering the accusations levelled against you........that you was lying!!

This is shiism from a syed taught by Shiite teachers to LIE!!

😂👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 07, 2020, 03:16:23 PM
Twice this syed teacher has been caught lying on Umar ra, once about the door incident and the phantom hand which I offered him to produce factual evidence........he couldn’t! and now to make his case sound stronger he is LYING yet again by using words like “nonsense” on a certain individual whom he hates so much that he iceman the syed teacher will lie on this individual just to make him look bad.

Then iceman says he doesn’t hate sahabas?!?!?

Hypocrite syed ustaad who follows a sect that in the absence of Facts is the truth.

😁
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 07, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
"Again.....USTAAD DIMWIT......why are you intentionally ignoring sajjah? That itself is bad and you know it, instead your on a tangent about sahabas going astray or not...lol, great ustaad dimwit"

I'm not ignoring anyone. 😊 You bang on about Takfeer on sahaba, where does takfeer on sahaba go when it comes to Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. 😊 Can companions go astray or not? You say no when it comes to Shias. But your belief and faith says they can. 😊 So you can accuse infact belief that companions went astray. But when it comes to others you yapp on about Takfeer on sahaba. Just exposing you and your belief. 😊

The point is not Sajjah, what ever character that is you've created here, the point is can Sahaba go astray or not after the death of the Prophet s.a.w? What's your belief. 😊 After answering this which you will never have the courage to do 😊 Then explain takfeer on sahaba. 😊 See how easy it is to catch you out and expose you.

Ustaad dimwit the point is sajjah and how he bacame murtad.
My point wasn’t sahaba going astray or not, you bought that in because you can’t answer on sajjah.😜

You can’t answer just like you ancestors instead diverting to other stuff like takfeer on sahaba lol😂😂

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 07, 2020, 03:22:25 PM
Imam Nawawi states in his sharh of Sahih Muslim;

Secondly, the statement "He is talking nonsense" was *not* uttered by Sayyidina Umar. This is an intentional manipulation aimed at degrading Sayyidina Umar. In Sahih Muslim, Bab Tarak Al Wasiyah, it states:

فقالوا إن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏يهجر

- And they said the Prophet is speaking no sense.

From above we can see that:

[1] It was said by a group of people

[2] No single person is identified as uttering the above statement.

So what does this statement mean and why was it uttered?

Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states:

( أهجر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ) هكذا هو في صحيح مسلم وغيره ( أهجر ) على الاستفهام وهو أصح من رواية : هجر ويهجر ; لأن هذا كله لا يصح منه صلى الله عليه وسلم ; لأن معنى هجر : هذى , وإنما جاء هذا من قائله استفهاما للإنكار على من قال : لا تكتبوا , أي لا تتركوا أمر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وتجعلوه كأمر من هجر في كلامه ; لأنه صلى الله عليه وسلم لا يهجر

That those that wanted to *fulfill* the Prophets request without discussion asked those who were delaying, rhetorically, "Are you saying that the Messenger of Allah does not know what he is saying?" This, is perfectly acceptable and in accordance with the Arabic language.


Look at the lies syed ustaad dimwit is peddling he says Umar ra said it yet the hadith states “They” said it and ustaad dimwit is using not very authentic books to say it was the word nonsense uttered by Umar ra.

Hopefully syed ustaad will relate the Arabic with what he has posted and retake another look at his false accusations on a sahaba.

This is shiism full of hate and lies😂👍

SYED DIMWIT USTAAD......AKA ICEMAN!!!

Was you lying and pushing this lie?
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 07, 2020, 03:24:17 PM
SHIISM IS TRUE.........IN THE ABSENCE FACTS!!

Thanks to Iceman 👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 07, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
Lol. Lol again. You can't save them even if your life depended on it. Umar objected. He ignored the Prophet s.a.w. He advised others otherwise by reminding them that "we have the book of Allah with you. The book of Allah is sufficient for us" therefore completely getting them to ignore the Prophet s.a.w and not bother with what he had to write. You can duck and dive, twist and turn all you like but won't be able to save them from going astray by ignoring the Prophet s.a.w. They abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded in battle the battlefield. They ignored and shunned him here as well. 😊

To this guy “THEY” in Arabic means just Umar ra oh my the hate the hypocrisy they have on him ra it reminds me of a hadith that prophet pbuh said regarding the great khaliph Umar ra
“No doubt, ALLAH has issue truth, on the tongue and in the heart of Umar. “

Alhamdulillah

The lies and falsehood being churned out by certain sect sure does resemble the minions of shaytaan, in the absence of light you will only see dark, the state of syed ustaad dimwit.

😁
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 07, 2020, 06:43:27 PM
To this guy “THEY” in Arabic means just Umar ra oh my the hate the hypocrisy they have on him ra it reminds me of a hadith that prophet pbuh said regarding the great khaliph Umar ra
“No doubt, ALLAH has issue truth, on the tongue and in the heart of Umar."

Alhamdulillah

The lies and falsehood being churned out by certain sect sure does resemble the minions of shaytaan, in the absence of light you will only see dark, the state of syed ustaad dimwit.

😁

“No doubt, ALLAH has issue truth, on the tongue and in the heart of Umar. “

What, on the tongue of a person who had no respect or care for the Prophet s.a.w and what he had to write. Someone who led himself and the others astray. And before you start jumping up and down that is based on what the Prophet s.a.w said. "Fetch me a pen and paper so I may write something for you so you don't go astray after me". Umar objected and differed. He reminded others by saying "you have the book of Allah with you, the book of Allah is sufficient for us" thus leading himself and some others astray. 😊 You talk about the great hadith about Umar, well it seems like Umar forgot the verse "what the Prophet offers you take it,  what he forbids refrain from it". 😊 He didn't care nor was he interested in what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer. And just for you many hadiths were forged or fabricated and even made up by those or for those who governed pushing there way forward.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 08, 2020, 12:33:41 PM
“No doubt, ALLAH has issue truth, on the tongue and in the heart of Umar. “

What, on the tongue of a person who had no respect or care for the Prophet s.a.w and what he had to write. Someone who led himself and the others astray. And before you start jumping up and down that is based on what the Prophet s.a.w said. "Fetch me a pen and paper so I may write something for you so you don't go astray after me". Umar objected and differed. He reminded others by saying "you have the book of Allah with you, the book of Allah is sufficient for us" thus leading himself and some others astray. 😊 You talk about the great hadith about Umar, well it seems like Umar forgot the verse "what the Prophet offers you take it,  what he forbids refrain from it". 😊 He didn't care nor was he interested in what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer. And just for you many hadiths were forged or fabricated and even made up by those or for those who governed pushing there way forward.

Yes on the tongue of the 3rd greatest man after Muhammed pbuh, Alhamdulillah.

You can hate as much as you want you have NOTHING apart from Black Thursday and yet you still cannot prove it was Umar ra who said that word nonsense.😂

Syed ustaad dimwit the hater of Sunnis and friends and wives of prophet pbuh cannot bring ANY evidence for his assumptions of Umar ra saying the word nonsense.

GOTCHA you liar!

😂👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 08, 2020, 05:55:34 PM
Yes on the tongue of the 3rd greatest man after Muhammed pbuh, Alhamdulillah.

You can hate as much as you want you have NOTHING apart from Black Thursday and yet you still cannot prove it was Umar ra who said that word nonsense.😂

Syed ustaad dimwit the hater of Sunnis and friends and wives of prophet pbuh cannot bring ANY evidence for his assumptions of Umar ra saying the word nonsense.

GOTCHA you liar!

😂👍

The Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper. WHY? So the Prophet s.a.w may write something for the companions. WHY? So that they won't go astray after him s.a.w. Umar objected to it that a pen and paper shouldn't be given to him. He further said "remember you have the book of Allah with you, the book of Allah is sufficient for us". Now clearly certain people will believe that Umar went astray here along with those who sided with him. Why is this takfeer on sahaba? 😊 Answer up 😆 What's your opinion on Umar here.

The Prophet s.a.w didn't write what he needed to to save the companions from going astray. Why? Because certain companions objected and weren't interested. Why? Because they didn't think it was necessary I guess. So the verse was ignored and violated "take what the Prophet has to offer or gives you, abstain from what he forbids you". Now certain people believe Umar became astray because of his action and stance. Why is this a crime if certain people believe that Umar went astray here along with those who sided with him. 😊

We have nothing apart from Black Thursday? 😂 What, you want more apart from Black Thursday to put a conviction on Umar 😊 How serious can it get than Black Thursday. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 08, 2020, 09:20:21 PM
The Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper. WHY? So the Prophet s.a.w may write something for the companions. WHY? So that they won't go astray after him s.a.w. Umar objected to it that a pen and paper shouldn't be given to him. He further said "remember you have the book of Allah with you, the book of Allah is sufficient for us". Now clearly certain people will believe that Umar went astray here along with those who sided with him. Why is this takfeer on sahaba? 😊 Answer up 😆 What's your opinion on Umar here.

The Prophet s.a.w didn't write what he needed to to save the companions from going astray. Why? Because certain companions objected and weren't interested. Why? Because they didn't think it was necessary I guess. So the verse was ignored and violated "take what the Prophet has to offer or gives you, abstain from what he forbids you". Now certain people believe Umar became astray because of his action and stance. Why is this a crime if certain people believe that Umar went astray here along with those who sided with him. 😊

We have nothing apart from Black Thursday? 😂 What, you want more apart from Black Thursday to put a conviction on Umar 😊 How serious can it get than Black Thursday. 😊

Honestly? My opinion on Umar ra?

 My opinion is EXACTLY the same as Imam Ali ra.......... "May Allah reward 'such and such man' who straightened the curve, cured the disease, abandoned mischief and established the Sunnah. He departed (from this world) with untarnished clothes and little shortcomings. He achieved good (of this world) and remained safe from its evils. He offered Allah's obedience and feared Him as He deserved. He went away and left the people in dividing ways wherein the misled cannot obtain guidance and the guided cannot attain certainty."
Ibn Abil-Hadid a Mutazeli scholar who has written the most famous commentary of Nahj al-Balagha writes that 'such and such man' ('Fulan' in original Arabic) refers to Umar (ra) as he has seen in a Sayyed Radhi's hand written manuscript of Nahj al-Balagha that the word Umar was written beneath 'Fulan' (Sharh Nahj al-balaghah, 14: 3-4).

😂👍

Right, now the word nonsense is missing but it’s something else about Umar ra that irks you, and your hate against Him won’t  subside.

Ahlu sunnah DONT, but like you said SOME people (shiites) believe He went astray and your evidence is hadith of Black Thursday where the prophet pbuh told THEM to leave, which to a hater and denier of truth like yourself take it to mean it was just Umar ra that prophet pbuh was referring to, we know your hate and how you follow lies and assumptions as the above explains.

Either you are dumb or just playing dumb either way a minion like yourself is showing hate and then you say you don’t hate.😂


This is best evidence for syed ustaad dimwit that he has to add Umar ra as the sole culprit of THEM who were told to leave.

Shiism at its greatest😂👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 09, 2020, 03:23:40 PM
Yes on the tongue of the 3rd greatest man after Muhammed pbuh, Alhamdulillah.

You can hate as much as you want you have NOTHING apart from Black Thursday and yet you still cannot prove it was Umar ra who said that word nonsense.😂

Syed ustaad dimwit the hater of Sunnis and friends and wives of prophet pbuh cannot bring ANY evidence for his assumptions of Umar ra saying the word nonsense.

GOTCHA you liar!

😂👍

"Yes on the tongue of the 3rd greatest man after Muhammed pbuh, Alhamdulillah"

How and in what way? Oh, just because he ended up being the second caliph. Your sequence of excellence goes by who ended up being a Caliph. That's how you categorise them. Not on the basis of character, performance and their achievement. Not on the basis of actions and merits. 😊

"You can hate as much as you want you have NOTHING apart from Black Thursday and yet you still cannot prove it was Umar ra who said that word nonsense"

I don't hate anyone. 😊 You don't need anything apart from Black Thursday. 😊 And crime followed by a conviction based on that crime and the damage that follows is more than enough. 😊

"Syed ustaad dimwit the hater of Sunnis and friends and wives of the Prophet s.a.w"

I don't hate anyone. 😊 You have to do better than that. Much better. You can't win the argument like this. 😊 Put something constructive forward. 😊

"GOTCHA you liar!"

You haven't got anything. Apart from embarrassment. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 09, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
"Yes on the tongue of the 3rd greatest man after Muhammed pbuh, Alhamdulillah"

How and in what way? Oh, just because he ended up being the second caliph. Your sequence of excellence goes by who ended up being a Caliph. That's how you categorise them. Not on the basis of character, performance and their achievement. Not on the basis of actions and merits. 😊

"You can hate as much as you want you have NOTHING apart from Black Thursday and yet you still cannot prove it was Umar ra who said that word nonsense"

I don't hate anyone. 😊 You don't need anything apart from Black Thursday. 😊 And crime followed by a conviction based on that crime and the damage that follows is more than enough. 😊

"Syed ustaad dimwit the hater of Sunnis and friends and wives of the Prophet s.a.w"

I don't hate anyone. 😊 You have to do better than that. Much better. You can't win the argument like this. 😊 Put something constructive forward. 😊

"GOTCHA you liar!"

You haven't got anything. Apart from embarrassment. 😊

He Umar ra achieved more than ANY divine imam ever did, at least Umar ra was a real human being who lived and was martyred........A living being!!

No divine imam EVER existed even to this day and you have no proof of it.👍😂

Again your hatred is never ending especially on Umar ra, history has been written about Umar ra and His achievements, you just don’t want to know and keep your hatred up just keep shaytaan happy, you know the one who walks on the other side when he used to see Umar ra coming.😂👍

Quran is sufficient is not a crime in Islam where as not paying zakah and following a false prophet.....IS!

You are confused in all this hate ustaad😂👍

I have put a constructive argument forward......sajjah, you then turn it on the person you hate.....Umar ra and confusingly portraying it as the same crime.😂😂😂
Dimwit!

I got you embarrassed to the point you started to LIE to make yourself look good.

😂😂😂

Shiism the cesspit of nonsense 👆
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Soccer on April 09, 2020, 04:58:14 PM
Separating the Sunnah and Ahlulbayt from Quran is the height of evil and transgression.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: muslim720 on April 10, 2020, 04:01:51 AM
The Sunnis came around during the time and generation of our 6th Imam Jaffar Al Sadiq. Your Imam Abu Hanafi was a student of our 6th Imam who then went off and apposed Jaffar to create his own school of thought backed by the government against Al Sadiq. This is where the first Sunnis emerged, the followers of Abu Hanifa.

Once again, you have proven your deep ignorance.  Imam Abu Hanifa (rah) was an imam of fiqh, not our "Infallible Guide".  The fiqh of Sunni school isn't all of Sunni school, ya jaahil!  And while he was a student of Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra), this bit totally destroys all the claims you lay to the Imam (ra) as your religious guide.  How can the student of Imam Al-Sadiq (ra) have a completely different set of jurisprudence than the Ithna Asharis?  Oh, so he went off and opposed the Imam (ra)?  Well, there are four schools of jurisprudence and despite their differences, all four are in harmony.  So if anything, you have to prove how the four Imams of Sunni Fiqh (rah) conspire against Imam As-Sadiq (ra) when almost all of them were tortured for being Shia (due to their extreme love for Ahlul Bayt)!

This is the difference between real Muslims, including Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra), and the fringe groups (who claim to have Imam Al-Sadiq on their side): persecution or not, we stood by our beliefs.  Our Imams (ra) accepted torture to stand by Ahlul Bayt (ra).  According to you, your Imams (ra) - allegedly - lied and manipulated facts just to get by.



Quote
Later on Sunnis fell into disarray and developed differences where Imam Malik separated and started his own school of thought. The difference furthered to Shafi and Hambali schools of thought. You didn't even exist and were no where to be seen when we were around.

Of course you had to be raised on such misrepresentation of facts because your Ithna Ashari creed was a by-product of various other Shi'i sects failing and going extinct.



Quote
Lol. Lol again. You are so far stuck up in personality worship that a few companions and that's just a handful never got anything wrong what so ever. You have turned them into Holy saints.

At least we do not give them Allah's (swt) Attributes.  Oh, and you lied!  Try harder next time.



Quote
They abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded in battle and ran to save their lives. They shunned the Prophet s.a.w when he asked for pen and paper and weren't interested in what he had to offer. This went on while the Prophet s.a.w was alive. Never mind about what they got up to after the Prophet's s.a.w death.

And Imam Ali (ra) never opposed them, gave his daughter in marriage to one of them, advised all of them and never overturned a single verdict by any one of them.



Quote
Imam Hassan did not abdicate what was Divinely Ordained for him.
The tyrant like Muawiya, your words, only ruled over Muslims due to the failure of the Muslims. Just like Yazeed ruled over the Muslims.

And who made Muawiya's rule possible?  That is my point!
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 10, 2020, 11:20:15 AM
Once again, you have proven your deep ignorance.  Imam Abu Hanifa (rah) was an imam of fiqh, not our "Infallible Guide".  The fiqh of Sunni school isn't all of Sunni school, ya jaahil!  And while he was a student of Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra), this bit totally destroys all the claims you lay to the Imam (ra) as your religious guide.  How can the student of Imam Al-Sadiq (ra) have a completely different set of jurisprudence than the Ithna Asharis?  Oh, so he went off and opposed the Imam (ra)?  Well, there are four schools of jurisprudence and despite their differences, all four are in harmony.  So if anything, you have to prove how the four Imams of Sunni Fiqh (rah) conspire against Imam As-Sadiq (ra) when almost all of them were tortured for being Shia (due to their extreme love for Ahlul Bayt)!

This is the difference between real Muslims, including Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra), and the fringe groups (who claim to have Imam Al-Sadiq on their side): persecution or not, we stood by our beliefs.  Our Imams (ra) accepted torture to stand by Ahlul Bayt (ra).  According to you, your Imams (ra) - allegedly - lied and manipulated facts just to get by.



Of course you had to be raised on such misrepresentation of facts because your Ithna Ashari creed was a by-product of various other Shi'i sects failing and going extinct.



At least we do not give them Allah's (swt) Attributes.  Oh, and you lied!  Try harder next time.



And Imam Ali (ra) never opposed them, gave his daughter in marriage to one of them, advised all of them and never overturned a single verdict by any one of them.



And who made Muawiya's rule possible?  That is my point!

"Imam Abu Hanifa (rah) was an imam of fiqh, not our "Infallible Guide".

Make sure you stick to this because I'm going to use this. Then you further say;

"How can the student of Imam Al-Sadiq (ra) have a completely different set of jurisprudence than the Ithna Asharis?"

He (Abu Hanifa) wasn't an infallible guide then you say that how can he differ with his teacher? Are you for real. He wasn't an infallible guide but can't differ and disagree? Why can't he? I'll tell you why he did and the reason you've given 'because he wasn't infallible'.

It doesn't matter which Shia Imam it was, from Ali all the way to Askari, they were all opposed by the government of the time. And those who opposed or differed with the Imams were uplifted by the government through backing and support.

Abu Hanifa was picked up by the government of the time and was supported against Al Sadiq. Why is there more supporters and followers of Fiqah e Hanafia rather than Fiqah e Jafferia? Because Hanifa was picked up engineered and programmed to work against Al Sadiq. One was supported by ever means and the other opposed by every means.

Malik bin Nuwayrah was a companion of the Prophet s.a.w, was he not. He believed in Muhammad s.a.w being the last and final Prophet. Then Malik goes astray in believing in sajjah as a Prophet and following her. Malik being a companion could go astray and did according to you. But Hanifa couldn't be picked up, bought out and sold by the government against Al Sadiq? I don't see you saying and talking here that despite companions being Mehfooz according to your Sunni faith, how can Malik believe in and follow another prophet after Muhammad s.a.w while being a companion of Muhammad s.a.w and believing in him as the last and final Messenger.

"The fiqh of Sunni school isn't all of Sunni school, ya jaahil"

Please do explain this. You call me Jahil but so far you are speaking on jahalat yourself.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 10, 2020, 01:42:35 PM
Once again, you have proven your deep ignorance.  Imam Abu Hanifa (rah) was an imam of fiqh, not our "Infallible Guide".  The fiqh of Sunni school isn't all of Sunni school, ya jaahil!  And while he was a student of Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra), this bit totally destroys all the claims you lay to the Imam (ra) as your religious guide.  How can the student of Imam Al-Sadiq (ra) have a completely different set of jurisprudence than the Ithna Asharis?  Oh, so he went off and opposed the Imam (ra)?  Well, there are four schools of jurisprudence and despite their differences, all four are in harmony.  So if anything, you have to prove how the four Imams of Sunni Fiqh (rah) conspire against Imam As-Sadiq (ra) when almost all of them were tortured for being Shia (due to their extreme love for Ahlul Bayt)!

This is the difference between real Muslims, including Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra), and the fringe groups (who claim to have Imam Al-Sadiq on their side): persecution or not, we stood by our beliefs.  Our Imams (ra) accepted torture to stand by Ahlul Bayt (ra).  According to you, your Imams (ra) - allegedly - lied and manipulated facts just to get by.



Of course you had to be raised on such misrepresentation of facts because your Ithna Ashari creed was a by-product of various other Shi'i sects failing and going extinct.



At least we do not give them Allah's (swt) Attributes.  Oh, and you lied!  Try harder next time.



And Imam Ali (ra) never opposed them, gave his daughter in marriage to one of them, advised all of them and never overturned a single verdict by any one of them.



And who made Muawiya's rule possible?  That is my point!

"so he went off and opposed the Imam (ra)?  Well, there are four schools of jurisprudence and despite their differences, all four are in harmony"

Harmony? History and facts tell us a different story. One is not willing to pray behind the Imam of another school of thought. Then you have sectarian differences, the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah hate the Sunni Wahabis and the Deobandis hate the Barelvis.

"Our Imams (ra) accepted torture to stand by Ahlul Bayt (ra).  According to you, your Imams (ra) - allegedly - lied and manipulated facts just to get by.

Your Imams stood by the Ahle Baith based on words and not by faith or action. And our Imams stood by and believed in the actual Islam and not the political Islam brought about by the Shaykhain in the form of Caliphate Islam. A Sunni scholar said well about Karbala; "on one side you have political Islam Yazeed Ibne Muawiya. And the other side you have the original Islam Hussain Ibne Ali". We Shias believe in the original Islam and that is what we follow. You believe in the political Islam and that is what you follow.

"Of course you had to be raised on such misrepresentation of facts because your Ithna Ashari creed was a by-product of various other Shi'i sects failing and going extinct"

My Isna Ashari sect comes from Ghadeer and the Prophet's s.a.w hadith that there will be 12 caliphs/leaders/Imams after me. And my 12th Imam Al Mahdi comes from the Prophet’s s.a.w hadith that a saviour will arrive to fill the world with justice and fairness as though it will be full of injustice and tyranny. He's name will be Muhammad just like mine. That's exactly where my sect and faith originates from.

"At least we do not give them Allah's (swt) Attributes"

Neither do we. Try to stick to one subject at a time.

"And who made Muawiya's rule possible?  That is my point!"

The Muslims who let Hassan down after giving allegiance to him. And now some consider him the 5th Caliph of the Muslims. And some consider Muawiya the 5th Caliph of the Muslims ridding Hassan completely. It's the Muslims mate who have been cause of their own problems.

Those who stood by the Prophet s.a.w and demanded that he should be given the pen and paper and we should accept what he had to write and offer were actually the true and loyal companions. And those who stood by the Imams were the actual Shias like Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr who you never bother to mention forget about praising and honouring him.

"And Imam Ali (ra) never opposed them, gave his daughter in marriage to one of them, advised all of them and never overturned a single verdict by any one of them"

You believe in the made up story. That's exactly why stories like that were made up. Just as a counter argument to challenge the truth and facts and to show that it was all sugar and honey.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: muslim720 on April 11, 2020, 02:25:02 AM
He (Abu Hanifa) wasn't an infallible guide then you say that how can he differ with his teacher? Are you for real. He wasn't an infallible guide but can't differ and disagree? Why can't he? I'll tell you why he did and the reason you've given 'because he wasn't infallible'.

Wait, so Imam Abu Hanifa (rah) must have disagreed with his teacher because he was not infallible?  Well, how many of the students of Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra) do you Shias consider "infallible"?  None!  Therefore, by your logic, they too must have differed from their teacher.

Your logic only suffocated your own claim, lol.



Quote
Because Hanifa was picked up engineered and programmed to work against Al Sadiq. One was supported by ever means and the other opposed by every means.

The fiqh of Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra) was preserved through Imam Abu Hanifa (rah) so the latter was accepted because all the so-called "students" of Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (ra) presented by Ithna Ashari school were all liars with the most prolific ones cursed by none other than Imam Al-Sadiq (ra) himself.  Alhamdulilah for Imam Abu Hanifa (rah); the teachings of Imam Al-Sadiq (ra), otherwise, would have been lost, thanks to the treachery of Kufans who continuously conspired and murdered members of Ahlul Bayt (ra) one after another.



Quote
Malik bin Nuwayrah was a companion of the Prophet s.a.w, was he not. He believed in Muhammad s.a.w being the last and final Prophet. Then Malik goes astray in believing in sajjah as a Prophet and following her. Malik being a companion could go astray and did according to you. But Hanifa couldn't be picked up, bought out and sold by the government against Al Sadiq?

I presented you an authentic Shi'i report in which Imam Al-Sadiq (ra) said that anyone who refuses to pay Zakat is an apostate and should be subjected to capital punishment.  You completely forsook the fiqh of Imam Al-Sadiq (ra), as presented by Shi'i school, back then.  So I am flabbergasted that you even had the audacity to present such an example.  As for the example itself, we have authentic proof to prove Malik bin Nuwayrah's apostasy, the most eminent "Sahabi" for the Shia.  Do you have a single authentic report that Imam Abu Hanifa (rah) was bought out?  Unfortunately for you, the only people to make deals with the wrong crowd were your own first and second "infallible" Imams (ra), lol.  That is, if we go according to your beliefs.



Quote
Please do explain this. You call me Jahil but so far you are speaking on jahalat yourself.

This is a simple point!  Is Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah just fiqh?  I recommend you refrain from head beating this Muharram.



Quote
One is not willing to pray behind the Imam of another school of thought. Then you have sectarian differences, the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah hate the Sunni Wahabis and the Deobandis hate the Barelvis.

Actually, the four Imams of fiqh (rah) all conceded that as an individual, they all thought they were right but it was also possible that they may be wrong and one of the other three was right (on one or more issues).  As for Wahabis, Deobandis and Barelvis, you are conflating fiqh with aqeedah.  Rest assured that such differences not only exist within Shia school but also amongst Ithna Asharis so your point is moot.



Quote
Your Imams stood by the Ahle Baith based on words and not by faith or action

Still does not negate the fact that all four of them were imprisoned and tortured for their extreme love for Ahlul Bayt (ra).  I would rather have those who support me by words than those who backstab me and my family and then hold annual processions of grief for my murder which happened because of them and at their hands.  Thanks but no thanks!



Quote
My Isna Ashari sect comes from Ghadeer

Alhamdulilah!  Your sect comes from a rest stop between Mecca and Madina.  At least you are honest that it has nothing to do with the Holy Prophet (saw) and Islam.



Quote
And my 12th Imam Al Mahdi comes from the Prophet’s s.a.w hadith that a saviour will arrive to fill the world with justice and fairness as though it will be full of injustice and tyranny

He would have been here by now if you effeminate bunch could only find 313 men among you who could actually prove that their said father is their biological father and that they were not offspring of mut'ah.  Millions of you and not even 313 men among you, lol!



Quote
Neither do we. Try to stick to one subject at a time

Sure you don't give Attributes of Allah (swt) to the Imams (ra)?  Re-consider your position or I will blast you on this one.  I just blasted two "intellectual" Shias on this point on YouTube.



Quote
The Muslims who let Hassan down after giving allegiance to him. And now some consider him the 5th Caliph of the Muslims. And some consider Muawiya the 5th Caliph of the Muslims ridding Hassan completely. It's the Muslims mate who have been cause of their own problems.

How is it the Muslims' fault when Imam Hassan (ra) himself handed their affairs over to Muawiya?  Muslims obey the Imam, not oppose him.  When he made way for another person, Muslims accepted it as part of his wisdom.  Renegades, on the other hand, are still burning over it till this very day, lol.



Quote
You believe in the made up story. That's exactly why stories like that were made up. Just as a counter argument to challenge the truth and facts and to show that it was all sugar and honey

In the other discussion topic, brothers have shown you authentic evidence from Shi'i sources and scholars that Umar (ra) married the daughter of Imam Ali (ra).  It is not my problem that you cannot see the sun because your eyes are shut; just don't say that it (the sun) does not exist!
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 12, 2020, 10:28:19 PM

Malik bin Nuwayrah was a companion of the Prophet s.a.w, was he not. He believed in Muhammad s.a.w being the last and final Prophet. Then Malik goes astray in believing in sajjah as a Prophet and following her. Malik being a companion could go astray and did according to you.


What a hypocrite!!!

You wanted evidence from me on Nuwera following sajja but here you are using it as your argument against someone else??

HYPOCRITE!

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 13, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
What a hypocrite!!!

You wanted evidence from me on Nuwera following sajja but here you are using it as your argument against someone else??

HYPOCRITE!

LOL! Where is your evidence against Malik that he became an apostate? You haven't put anything forward till yet. Just an accusation without any sort of evidence what so ever. Never mind about clear evidence that one can't argue with 😊

And if you ever do bring forward clear and cut evidence of Malik becoming an apostate, which you never ever will be able to, then that would be absolutely clear that after all companions can go astray. 😊

You lose either way. 😊 I will expose your hypocritical stance and double standards 😆
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 13, 2020, 01:15:03 PM
LOL! Where is your evidence against Malik that he became an apostate? You haven't put anything forward till yet. Just an accusation without any sort of evidence what so ever. Never mind about clear evidence that one can't argue with 😊

And if you ever do bring forward clear and cut evidence of Malik becoming an apostate, which you never ever will be able to, then that would be absolutely clear that after all companions can go astray. 😊

You lose either way. 😊 I will expose your hypocritical stance and double standards 😆

So why are YOU using Malik being an apostate to counter someone else’s argument?

If you don’t believe it’s true then why use the argument?

That’s just hypocrisy.

I stand by what I saidhe was an apostate and NEVER budged I gave you evidence for it........only in shiism that equals to hypocrisy.
😂😂

Dimwit!
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 13, 2020, 04:58:00 PM
LOL! Where is your evidence against Malik that he became an apostate? You haven't put anything forward till yet. Just an accusation without any sort of evidence what so ever. Never mind about clear evidence that one can't argue with 😊

And if you ever do bring forward clear and cut evidence of Malik becoming an apostate, which you never ever will be able to, then that would be absolutely clear that after all companions can go astray. 😊

You lose either way. 😊 I will expose your hypocritical stance and double standards 😆

Yes dimwit we have plethora of evidences, I gave you 2!!

Companions following another prophet is not a companion no more, he/she is not Muslim!

You lost from the point you started equalling apostasy with a statement “Quran is sufficient”

You have been exposed as a liar and a hypocrite using double standards especially regarding the apostate.

You have NOTHING, your words are babble and you can’t even read the verses of Quran clearly without adding your own divine nonsense to them.

Bring it on big Shiite man😂😂😂
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 14, 2020, 03:26:58 PM
Yes dimwit we have plethora of evidences, I gave you 2!!

Companions following another prophet is not a companion no more, he/she is not Muslim!

You lost from the point you started equalling apostasy with a statement “Quran is sufficient”

You have been exposed as a liar and a hypocrite using double standards especially regarding the apostate.

You have NOTHING, your words are babble and you can’t even read the verses of Quran clearly without adding your own divine nonsense to them.

Bring it on big Shiite man😂😂😂

You are not aware of your history books. The reports on Malik bin Nuwayrah are mixed. Ahle Sunnah don't have a clear and fixed opinion on him. They differ on him becoming an apostate. Even Umar disagreed with him becoming an apostate and wanted Abu Bakr to punish Khalid over the killing of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. A companion Abu Qatada, who was among the armed soldiers under the command of Khalid, complained to Abu Bakr over Khalid and testified that he saw Malik and his tribes men pray and claimed that Khalid did wrong by acting hastily.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 14, 2020, 04:12:19 PM
Yes dimwit we have plethora of evidences, I gave you 2!!

Companions following another prophet is not a companion no more, he/she is not Muslim!

You lost from the point you started equalling apostasy with a statement “Quran is sufficient”

You have been exposed as a liar and a hypocrite using double standards especially regarding the apostate.

You have NOTHING, your words are babble and you can’t even read the verses of Quran clearly without adding your own divine nonsense to them.

Bring it on big Shiite man😂😂😂

"Companions following another prophet is not a companion no more, he/she is not Muslim"

Firstly where is the clear cut evidence for this. Secondly you do believe that companions can go astray further as becoming apostates. Then believe in this principle and follow freedom of speech and the right of others to accept that companions went astray just as you say and believe they can. 😊

"You lost from the point you started equalling apostasy with a statement “Quran is sufficient”

A companion differed with Muhammad s.a.w on what he had to write and offer by saying "we have the book of Allah with us, the book of Allah is sufficient for us" Therefore violating the command of Allah that "what ever the Prophet s.a.w gives you, take it and what ever he forbids refrain from it", where he went astray along with others who sided with him.

Now those who believe in this you have no right what so ever to challenge them over this. Because you believe that companions can go astray. 😊

"You have been exposed as a liar and a hypocrite using double standards especially regarding the apostate"

That description fits on you. 😊

"You have NOTHING, your words are babble and you can’t even read the verses of Quran clearly without adding your own divine nonsense to them"

😀 Explain! You can't discuss. You don't have anything. 😊

"Bring it on big Shiite man"

😀 I have and I am. 😊 Nothing positive and constructive from you. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 14, 2020, 08:33:23 PM
You are not aware of your history books. The reports on Malik bin Nuwayrah are mixed. Ahle Sunnah don't have a clear and fixed opinion on him. They differ on him becoming an apostate. Even Umar disagreed with him becoming an apostate and wanted Abu Bakr to punish Khalid over the killing of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. A companion Abu Qatada, who was among the armed soldiers under the command of Khalid, complained to Abu Bakr over Khalid and testified that he saw Malik and his tribes men pray and claimed that Khalid did wrong by acting hastily.

No they don’t differ on that apostate we are unanimous he was an apostate and then Khalid ra served under the khilafah of Umar ra whom Umar ra complained to Abu Bakr ra about before.😁

Your hate is inbred from birth about Umar ra we know, but you will use Umar’s complaint to Abu Bakr ra,the person who didn’t listen to the prophet pbuh according to your assumptions is now proof for you that Khalid was wrong??!?😂😂
You have NO logic at all you are all over the shop ustaad.😂😂

This is shiism they don’t know if they are coming or going👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 14, 2020, 09:02:08 PM
"Companions following another prophet is not a companion no more, he/she is not Muslim"

Firstly where is the clear cut evidence for this. Secondly you do believe that companions can go astray further as becoming apostates. Then believe in this principle and follow freedom of speech and the right of others to accept that companions went astray just as you say and believe they can. 😊

"You lost from the point you started equalling apostasy with a statement “Quran is sufficient”

A companion differed with Muhammad s.a.w on what he had to write and offer by saying "we have the book of Allah with us, the book of Allah is sufficient for us" Therefore violating the command of Allah that "what ever the Prophet s.a.w gives you, take it and what ever he forbids refrain from it", where he went astray along with others who sided with him.

Now those who believe in this you have no right what so ever to challenge them over this. Because you believe that companions can go astray. 😊

"You have been exposed as a liar and a hypocrite using double standards especially regarding the apostate"

That description fits on you. 😊

"You have NOTHING, your words are babble and you can’t even read the verses of Quran clearly without adding your own divine nonsense to them"

😀 Explain! You can't discuss. You don't have anything. 😊

"Bring it on big Shiite man"

😀 I have and I am. 😊 Nothing positive and constructive from you. 😊

Non of our major companions especially the first 3 khulafa went astray.

Let’s break this down and show it’s HATE that breads you and not LOGIC!👍

Prophet pbuh told “Them” to get out
In Shiism that means Umar ra!

This is the logic from a teacher from Pakistan representing the Shiite creed, how he or Shiism came to that conclusion........by assuming lies and creating a false image or character of the main culprit who supposedly burned down some door incident.😂

Shiism is easy because all you have is hate and lies as you keep proving time and again.😁

Now you are using the verse of Quran willy nilly on a companion without sufficient proof especially when equating “THEM” to just a Umar ra

“violating the command of Allah that "what ever the Prophet s.a.w gives you, take it and what ever he forbids refrain from it",

Ali ra also didn’t do what prophet pbuh wanted, When the Prophet pbuh asked Ali ra to erase something during the Treaty of Hudaybiyya, Ali ra refused to do so.

1) Umar are said Quran is sufficient because of His love for the prophet pbuh so He could rest.

2) Ali ra point blank REFUSED to write, an order given by prophet pbuh Himself.

Work it out ustaad DIMWIT the verse of the Quran relates more to Ali are than Umar ra completely destroying your stupidity.😂

Alhamdulillah we ain’t no ustaads/teachers but Allah swt sure has given us ahlu sunnah Aql.👍

1)you are a hypocrite for using my argument which you don’t believe of Nuwera being apostate.
2) you lied about Umar ra and tried presenting as fact

There you have it a hypocrite and a liar given with evidence.😁

Is this the positive and constructive bit you are talking about which you gave?😂😂

This is rafidhi Logic 😁
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 15, 2020, 09:55:26 AM
No they don’t differ on that apostate we are unanimous he was an apostate and then Khalid ra served under the khilafah of Umar ra whom Umar ra complained to Abu Bakr ra about before.😁

Your hate is inbred from birth about Umar ra we know, but you will use Umar’s complaint to Abu Bakr ra,the person who didn’t listen to the prophet pbuh according to your assumptions is now proof for you that Khalid was wrong??!?😂😂
You have NO logic at all you are all over the shop ustaad.😂😂

This is shiism they don’t know if they are coming or going👍

"No they don’t differ on that apostate we are unanimous he was an apostate and then Khalid ra served under the khilafah of Umar ra whom Umar ra complained to Abu Bakr ra about before"

REFERENCES 😊 Back it up 😊

"Your hate is inbred from birth about Umar ra we know"

You don't know anything about me apart from I'm a Shia. That's how you see and take me. Your hate for the Shias has been in you from day one. And it's clearly seen here 😊

"but you will use Umar’s complaint to Abu Bakr ra"

That clearly shows that I don't hate Umar. If I hated him I'd be against him everywhere 😊

"the person who didn’t listen to the prophet pbuh according to your assumptions"

I don't go by assumptions. You have to look at things separately and on a file to file basis. If a person is guilty in one case doesn't mean they're guilty everywhere. It's not that Umar didn't listen to the Prophet s.a.w, Umar disobeyed the Prophet s.a.w and violated the command of Allah.

This doesn't mean that I hate him or the man is guilty everywhere and in every place. Nor does it mean he didn't have a decent bone in his body. You don't want to accept that he did wrong. That's the point.


"is now proof for you that Khalid was wrong??"

Nice try 😊 Umar's got nothing to do with it.  Lets leave the man out of this. What is the Ahle Sunnah view in black and white and unanimously on Malik bin Nuwayrah? Bring it forward with references 😊 You haven’t put anything forward till yet.

What is the Ahle Sunnah principle about the Sahaba collectively? You believe they are all MEHFOOZ. Is that true? Can you clarify and explain this? 😊

"You have NO logic at all you are all over the shop ustaad"

I have plenty of logic which you can't put up with 😊 You're saying this just to cover your embarrassment 😊 You've got nothing 😊

"This is shiism they don’t know if they are coming or going"

Lol. Lol again. We've been around for 1400 years. Your big Imam Abu Hanifa who kicked you off was a student under Jaffar al Sadiq 😊 You've always been under us 😊 That's where you began from, under us 😊 Student who got picked up by the government and its agents to be lifted and promoted against Al Sadiq. That's where you're from. 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 15, 2020, 10:06:00 AM
Non of our major companions especially the first 3 khulafa went astray.

Let’s break this down and show it’s HATE that breads you and not LOGIC!👍

Prophet pbuh told “Them” to get out
In Shiism that means Umar ra!

This is the logic from a teacher from Pakistan representing the Shiite creed, how he or Shiism came to that conclusion........by assuming lies and creating a false image or character of the main culprit who supposedly burned down some door incident.😂

Shiism is easy because all you have is hate and lies as you keep proving time and again.😁

Now you are using the verse of Quran willy nilly on a companion without sufficient proof especially when equating “THEM” to just a Umar ra

“violating the command of Allah that "what ever the Prophet s.a.w gives you, take it and what ever he forbids refrain from it",

Ali ra also didn’t do what prophet pbuh wanted, When the Prophet pbuh asked Ali ra to erase something during the Treaty of Hudaybiyya, Ali ra refused to do so.

1) Umar are said Quran is sufficient because of His love for the prophet pbuh so He could rest.

2) Ali ra point blank REFUSED to write, an order given by prophet pbuh Himself.

Work it out ustaad DIMWIT the verse of the Quran relates more to Ali are than Umar ra completely destroying your stupidity.😂

Alhamdulillah we ain’t no ustaads/teachers but Allah swt sure has given us ahlu sunnah Aql.👍

1)you are a hypocrite for using my argument which you don’t believe of Nuwera being apostate.
2) you lied about Umar ra and tried presenting as fact

There you have it a hypocrite and a liar given with evidence.😁

Is this the positive and constructive bit you are talking about which you gave?😂😂

This is rafidhi Logic 😁

"Non of our major companions especially the first 3 khulafa went astray:

Major companions? So you do categorise the companions after all 😊 I thought according to you all companions were equal and the same 😊 I thought you didn't cherry pick 😊 So you do have minor and major 😊

So you have two companions Umar Al Khattab and Malik bin Nuwayrah. Umar wasn't interested in what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer and believed that the book of Allah is sufficient for us. So there was no need for anything else.

But the Prophet s.a.w didn't believe that the book of Allah was sufficient enough otherwise he wouldn't have said "fetch me a pen and paper so I may write something for you so you don't go ASTRAY after me". If the book of Allah was sufficient for them then the Prophet s.a.w wouldn't have used the word 'ASTRAY'

Despite this Umar is still a major companion for you but Malik bin Nuwayrah refused to hand over the Zakah money to the treasury because he wasn't happy with this new government policy of taking people's hard earned money and the government now decides what to do with it which is absolutely against the Qur'an to begin with, so this companion is now branded and labelled not by all Ahle Sunnah but by some as an apostate 😊

"Prophet pbuh told “Them” to get out
In Shiism that means Umar ra!"

Lol. Why are you running forward. And then going by assumptions. Forget about 'in Shiaism this means" ask Shiaism about Shiaism and any meaning about anything rather than putting words and meanings in from yourself and based on assumptions.

The Prophet s.a.w asked for pen and paper so he may write something for them so they don't go ASTRAY after him. First point, this document was so important that without it the companions would have gone ASTRAY. Prophet's s.a.w words and not mine.

Second point, Umar objected. Not a person or individual or any companion but Umar's name is absolutely clear in it. He objected. Reason for objection Umar gave? The Prophet s.a.w is ill or seriously ill. This is no ordinary individual where one can question their health and mental state based on their illness that should a pen and paper be given to them in this situation.

But infact this was not just a Messenger of Allah from the Messengers of Allah but the greatest of all times and second in line and in command after himself. And he wasn't aware of himself but Umar had more knowledge and information about him. Umar knew better about his health and mental condition.
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: iceman on April 15, 2020, 12:05:56 PM
Non of our major companions especially the first 3 khulafa went astray.

Let’s break this down and show it’s HATE that breads you and not LOGIC!👍

Prophet pbuh told “Them” to get out
In Shiism that means Umar ra!

This is the logic from a teacher from Pakistan representing the Shiite creed, how he or Shiism came to that conclusion........by assuming lies and creating a false image or character of the main culprit who supposedly burned down some door incident.😂

Shiism is easy because all you have is hate and lies as you keep proving time and again.😁

Now you are using the verse of Quran willy nilly on a companion without sufficient proof especially when equating “THEM” to just a Umar ra

“violating the command of Allah that "what ever the Prophet s.a.w gives you, take it and what ever he forbids refrain from it",

Ali ra also didn’t do what prophet pbuh wanted, When the Prophet pbuh asked Ali ra to erase something during the Treaty of Hudaybiyya, Ali ra refused to do so.

1) Umar are said Quran is sufficient because of His love for the prophet pbuh so He could rest.

2) Ali ra point blank REFUSED to write, an order given by prophet pbuh Himself.

Work it out ustaad DIMWIT the verse of the Quran relates more to Ali are than Umar ra completely destroying your stupidity.😂

Alhamdulillah we ain’t no ustaads/teachers but Allah swt sure has given us ahlu sunnah Aql.👍

1)you are a hypocrite for using my argument which you don’t believe of Nuwera being apostate.
2) you lied about Umar ra and tried presenting as fact

There you have it a hypocrite and a liar given with evidence.😁

Is this the positive and constructive bit you are talking about which you gave?😂😂

This is rafidhi Logic 😁

"but Allah swt sure has given us ahlu sunnah Aql"

I'm sure he has. But why refrain from using it 😊 You need to use it 😊 Otherwise there's not much point in having it 😊

"Ali ra point blank REFUSED to write, an order given by prophet pbuh Himself"

And you're trying to use this to justify Umar's action and stance? 😊 You're doing your best to work as Umar's advocate and to clear him 😊 Where did the Prophet s.a.w ask Ali to give him s.a.w. a pen and paper so he s.a.w may write something so Ali along with others don't go astray? You're mixing oranges with apples due to blindness out of extreme loyalty towards Umar. It's not loyalty but Eemaan that counts. Don't sell yourself for less by putting loyalty over your Eemaan 😊

And what exactly did the Prophet s.a.w ask Ali to write? Bring the matter forward and lets discuss it 😊

"who supposedly burned down some door incident"

Whether he went that far or not, one thing is clear he did have an aggressive stance and did have a confrontational nature. 😊

"Shiism is easy because all you have is hate and lies as you keep proving time and again"

If it's that easy then why are you still struggling with it for nearly 1400 years 😊 Why do you need propaganda to deal either Shiaism 😊

"Now you are using the verse of Quran willy nilly on a companion without sufficient proof especially when equating “THEM” to just a Umar"

It's not my fault that Umar's name is clearly mentioned that he was the one who objected, gave the reason for objecting and then came out with the next statement reminding the people that "we have the book of Allah with us" and also telling them that "the book of Allah is sufficient for us", thus giving it clearly away that he knew or had some idea of want the Prophet s.a.w was going to write. A clear conviction. Here. Guilty as hell on this count 😊

I know it must be very painful for you. You must be really hurting. But there's absolutely no need for you to play with your Eemaan and conscious just to protect Umar. 😊

"Ali ra also didn’t do what prophet pbuh wanted, When the Prophet pbuh asked Ali ra to erase something during the Treaty of Hudaybiyya, Ali ra refused to do so"

And what was that? 😊 Don't be afraid. Put the whole episode forward 😊

"Umar are said Quran is sufficient because of His love for the prophet pbuh so He could rest"

So Umar knew the Prophet s.a.w better and you know Umar better? 😊 He wanted the Prophet s.a.w to rest and the people to go astray without what the Prophet s.a.w had to put forward.😊 That's how important it was. If it wasn't necessary and important the Prophet s.a.w wouldn't have asked for pen and paper in the first place 😊 You can try all you like but you can't protect the guilty or defend the wrong 😊
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 16, 2020, 11:52:22 AM
“I'm sure he has. But why refrain from using it 😊 You need to use it 😊 Otherwise there's not much point in having it 😊”

We use it and derive our usul from Quran where it’s CLEAR in the verses.😁
Where is the clear verse on Imamate?? Oh yea it’s not in Quran.......it’s in your aql😂😂😂
A prophet does a test to gain top slot Imamate
The ahlu bait by passed that and got it without tests

You have nothing but the above, you are adding a new concept where Imamate is higher than prophethood but You can’t explain it properly hence you can’t answer my question on ahlu baith why they got it automatically.

That’s blooming aql for you😂👍

Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 16, 2020, 12:02:09 PM
“ Where did the Prophet s.a.w ask Ali to give him s.a.w. a pen and paper so he s.a.w may write something so Ali along with others don't go astray?”

Astray??

So saying Quran is sufficient is going astray?

This is AQL of a shiite😂👆

1) Umar ra and the “others” said Quran is sufficient.

2) Ali ra point blank refuses an order from prophet pbuh as well as getting rebuked for it by the prophet pbuh Himself.

Great AQL👍😁

Loyalty according dimwit is believing in divine imams and lying about their stature that they are super beings who know when they gonna die😂😂

We don’t add nonsense divinity to sahaba, if Umar ra was wrong we would admit it, fortunately for us the only thing you got is some fake door theory and the Black Thursday hadith which you ASSUME is straying😂😂

Great AQL 😂👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 16, 2020, 12:04:42 PM
“who supposedly burned down some door incident"

Do tell us provide us the proof AUTHENTIC proof Umar ra burnt the door!😁

This is the story that makes or breaks shiism and syed DIMWIT HAS to believe it otherwise his sect is a nonsense........which it is anyway.😂
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 16, 2020, 12:10:27 PM
“If it's that easy then why are you still struggling with it for nearly 1400 years 😊 Why do you need propaganda to deal either Shiaism 😊”

We ain’t struggling we are HELPING you to understand the reality of 12’r Shiite nonsense.

We give you an EASY formula to follow as muslims........follow what is written in Quran explained by our Prophet pbuh.....simple.👍

YOU and your minions have been taught by Saba that something NOT in Quran or explained by Prophet pbuh IS in the Quran IF you just believe it.😂

Great Shiite AQL😁
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 16, 2020, 12:15:18 PM
“It's not my fault that Umar's name is clearly mentioned that he was the one who objected, gave the reason for objecting and then came out with the next statement reminding the people that "we have the book of Allah with us" and also telling them that "the book of Allah is sufficient for us", thus giving it clearly away that he knew or had some idea of want the Prophet s.a.w was going to write. A clear conviction. Here. Guilty as hell on this count 😊“

Just as guilty as Ali ra refusing an order from prophet pbuh.

A great Shiite AQL doesn’t realise or will turn a blind eye to his hypocritical understanding 😂

Hypocrisy of Shiite in plain sight😂👍

Thanks syed dimwit ustaad educated from Qom the highest Shiite learning😂😂👍
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 16, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
“And what was that? 😊 Don't be afraid. Put the whole episode forward 😊”

It’s well known in Islam, go find it, you know it’s true otherwise you would have it ready and would have broke it down to show how you are right.

But you can’t, instead.......bring the proof bring the proof bring the proof.😂👍👍

Dimwit got owned AGAIN but now he wants proof AFTER lying to us and showing it as proof against Umar ra.

We don’t hate we show reality.👍

Great AQL of shiism😂😆👆
Title: Re: Once again I require your help
Post by: Mythbuster1 on April 16, 2020, 12:23:53 PM
“So Umar knew the Prophet s.a.w better and you know Umar better? 😊 He wanted the Prophet s.a.w to rest and the people to go astray without what the Prophet s.a.w had to put forward.😊 That's how important it was. If it wasn't necessary and important the Prophet s.a.w wouldn't have asked for pen and paper in the first place 😊 You can try all you like but you can't protect the guilty or defend the wrong 😊“

Well it wasn’t DIVINE IMAMATE unless you can provide authentic proofs😂

As for what was to be written you DIMWIT you already posted it from a hadith which you was using against Umar ra😂😂

Don’t ask me to show you that too😂😂

Shiism at its best dumb blind and full of crap 😁