Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?

[muslim720]

I am only here to pass the time while ShiaChat is down but I will stick around. I havent even begun yet. I am feeling you guys out for now. Deciding to take you seriously or as jokers that you are.

Oh, got you!  In case you do not know, I cleaned house while I was in ShiaChat.  Please take us as jokers.  That way you might have some hope, false of course, in the beginning.

Didnt that same Abu Bakr also pray behind Amr Al-Aas. So shouldnt he then get precedence over Abu Bakr. Also, wasnt Abu Bakr just an infantryman under Usama bin Zayed so if he had not ignored the Prophet's command and gone to the Army of Usama, then he would be praying salah behind Usama. But that is a different discussion for a different time.

What does this have to do with what I said and how does that save face for your Shia imam that denied that basic fact?  Given that you do not deny it, I am glad that you admit that while the Prophet [saw] was alive, he [saw] appointed Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the Muslims in prayer (when he was ill).  Imagine if the Prophet [saw] had appointed Imam Ali [ra] for the task.  You would have been dancing to a different beat altogether.

I named Dawah Guy - I called him out several times. Some of his followers responded but he didnt.

Who is Dawah Guy?  I do not remember accepting him as my scholar.

I have heard of the Al-Mustakillah debates and seen a few videos. Not too impressed.

Glad you were not impressed.  I do not blame you.  After all, the Shia side was exposed and paraded as beyond pathetic, lol! 

[ShiaMan]

I am only here to pass the time while ShiaChat is down but I will stick around. I havent even begun yet. I am feeling you guys out for now. Deciding to take you seriously or as jokers that you are.

Oh, got you!  In case you do not know, I cleaned house while I was in ShiaChat.  Please take us as jokers.  That way you might have some hope, false of course, in the beginning.

Didnt that same Abu Bakr also pray behind Amr Al-Aas. So shouldnt he then get precedence over Abu Bakr. Also, wasnt Abu Bakr just an infantryman under Usama bin Zayed so if he had not ignored the Prophet's command and gone to the Army of Usama, then he would be praying salah behind Usama. But that is a different discussion for a different time.

What does this have to do with what I said and how does that save face for your Shia imam that denied that basic fact?  Given that you do not deny it, I am glad that you admit that while the Prophet [saw] was alive, he [saw] appointed Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the Muslims in prayer (when he was ill).  Imagine if the Prophet [saw] had appointed Imam Ali [ra] for the task.  You would have been dancing to a different beat altogether.

I named Dawah Guy - I called him out several times. Some of his followers responded but he didnt.

Who is Dawah Guy?  I do not remember accepting him as my scholar.

I have heard of the Al-Mustakillah debates and seen a few videos. Not too impressed.

Glad you were not impressed.  I do not blame you.  After all, the Shia side was exposed and paraded as beyond pathetic, lol! 

Cleaned house on ShiaChat? Somehow I doubt that. What username did you use? I will be sure read up on it.

I have neither agreed nor disagreed that Abu Bakr led the prayers. All I have said is that how did that become a criteria to elect a Caliph?

[muslim720]

Cleaned house on ShiaChat? Somehow I doubt that. What username did you use? I will be sure read up on it.

Muslim720!  Read my Fadak debate.  Wallaahi, when I brought Qur'anic verses that dealt with Fadak, they were reacting like they had never read these verses.  Of course they had not!  Since when did our Shia brothers approach Fadak, or anything that divides us, via Qur'an and authentic Sunnah?

I have neither agreed nor disagreed that Abu Bakr led the prayers. All I have said is that how did that become a criteria to elect a Caliph?

I never said that that became a criteria for Abu Bakr [ra] to be elected the Caliph.  All I said was that he led the Muslims in prayers upon the request of the Prophet [saw] and a Shia imam had the nerve to deny that fact.  That's all!

[ShiaMan]

Muslim720!  Read my Fadak debate.  Wallaahi, when I brought Qur'anic verses that dealt with Fadak, they were reacting like they had never read these verses.  Of course they had not!  Since when did our Shia brothers approach Fadak, or anything that divides us, via Qur'an and authentic Sunnah?

Will do. Can't wait for the site to be up.

I never said that that became a criteria for Abu Bakr [ra] to be elected the Caliph.  All I said was that he led the Muslims in prayers upon the request of the Prophet [saw] and a Shia imam had the nerve to deny that fact.  That's all!

OK as long as we are in agreement that a person leading a jamah does not make it a criteria for him to become a caliph.

[scusemyenglish]

When we will see an Ahmed Deedat against shiasme? :__l

[muslim720]

OK as long as we are in agreement that a person leading a jamah does not make it a criteria for him to become a caliph.

You seem to have serious issues that cause you to insert meanings and words into people's otherwise clear statements.  I never said that a person leading a jama'ah is someone who is, or is not, qualified to become the Caliph.  To be appointed by the Prophet [saw] is another matter and if Imam Ali [ra] was appointed as the imam (to lead the jama'ah), Shias would have been using that piece of history to hand him the Caliphate based on that merit.

The only reason why I brought up that bit regarding Abu Bakr [ra] was to show you that I have talked with Shias, including imams, at Shia mosques.  I have witnessed everything; good discussions, lies, even downright denial of historical facts (like denying the fact that the Prophet [saw], during his lifetime, appointing Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the Muslims in prayer).

[ShiaMan]

You seem to have serious issues that cause you to insert meanings and words into people's otherwise clear statements.  I never said that a person leading a jama'ah is someone who is, or is not, qualified to become the Caliph.  To be appointed by the Prophet [saw] is another matter and if Imam Ali [ra] was appointed as the imam (to lead the jama'ah), Shias would have been using that piece of history to hand him the Caliphate based on that merit.

The only reason why I brought up that bit regarding Abu Bakr [ra] was to show you that I have talked with Shias, including imams, at Shia mosques.  I have witnessed everything; good discussions, lies, even downright denial of historical facts (like denying the fact that the Prophet [saw], during his lifetime, appointing Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the Muslims in prayer).

Sure, lots of people know a lot about a lot, but then again lots of people don't know a lot about a lot. Neither you, nor I nor anyone on this forum will claim to know everything.

So when you said that the Prophet (saw) asked Caliph Abu Bakr to lead the pray, it was just stating a fact and had no relevance to anything one way or another.

I have this problem that I need to understand why things are being said.

[Bolani Muslim]

Sure, lots of people know a lot about a lot, but then again lots of people don't know a lot about a lot. Neither you, nor I nor anyone on this forum will claim to know everything. FYI Writing a lot (that is useless BTW) doesn't make you look smart

So when you said that the Prophet (saw) asked Caliph Abu Bakr to lead the pray, it was just stating a fact and had no relevance to anything one way or another.

I have this problem that I need to understand why things are being said.

Shias quote indirect evidence such as Ghadeer Khumm and Sleeping in the bed incident that Imam Ali (as) should've been the leader. He has done the same with Imam Abu Bakr (as) leading the prayer.

[Rationalist]

12er Shiaism survives by antagonizing Ahle Sunnah. The more a 12er Shia mosque attacks Ahle Sunnah by using tactical taqiyyah methods the more khumms they receive from the Dozeners. Whereas as Sunnis they don't really have much of 12er Shia problem in local neighborhoods. Its just online where the fights start. However, upfront 12ers are good with taqiyyah where they can disguise their hatred against Sunnis very well.

[learning boy]

12er Shiaism survives by antagonizing Ahle Sunnah. The more a 12er Shia mosque attacks Ahle Sunnah by using tactical taqiyyah methods the more khumms they receive from the Dozeners. Whereas as Sunnis they don't really have much of 12er Shia problem in local neighborhoods. Its just online where the fights start. However, upfront 12ers are good with taqiyyah where they can disguise their hatred against Sunnis very well.

This sounds like a james bond movie. More please?

Whereas as Sunnis they don't really have much of 12er Shia problem in local neighborhoods.

For shia's like me, of course, the sunnis are great here!!

For shia's like people in Iraq, ehh I don't think they'd agree. ( think kaboom )

[Rationalist]

This sounds like a james bond movie. More please?

Listen to the moderates such as Rajabali and Nakshawani. They blame it all on Umar and the Sunnis. When Yassir Habib does it bluntly he is supposedly an agent, but those who do it under taqiyyah are not?

For shia's like me, of course, the sunnis are great here!!

Yah because you don't speak openly about how you feel about the 3. Instead you focus on other topics.

For shia's like people in Iraq, ehh I don't think they'd agree. ( think kaboom )

Iraqis thought getting rid of Saddam and bringing a Shia government was a solution. However, the same shia government is looting their own people.

[muslim720]

Sure, lots of people know a lot about a lot, but then again lots of people don't know a lot about a lot. Neither you, nor I nor anyone on this forum will claim to know everything.

But you know a lot except what you know holds more nuisance value than beneficial information.  What you will pass on to your children, for example, will be stories that will lead them to develop hatred because the Shia paradigm is almost completely empty of mercy, love and salvation.

So when you said that the Prophet (saw) asked Caliph Abu Bakr to lead the pray, it was just stating a fact and had no relevance to anything one way or another.

As said previously, if Imam Ali [ra] would have been the recipient of this merit, you would have been dancing to a different beat.

I have this problem that I need to understand why things are being said.

Your problems do not end there.

[ShiaMan]

Sure, lots of people know a lot about a lot, but then again lots of people don't know a lot about a lot. Neither you, nor I nor anyone on this forum will claim to know everything. FYI Writing a lot (that is useless BTW) doesn't make you look smart

So when you said that the Prophet (saw) asked Caliph Abu Bakr to lead the pray, it was just stating a fact and had no relevance to anything one way or another.

I have this problem that I need to understand why things are being said.

Shias quote indirect evidence such as Ghadeer Khumm and Sleeping in the bed incident that Imam Ali (as) should've been the leader. He has done the same with Imam Abu Bakr (as) leading the prayer.

Brother - i wasnt trying to look/act smart. I was just letting muslim720 know that he shouldnt be surprised if someone doesnt know something.

12er Shiaism survives by antagonizing Ahle Sunnah. The more a 12er Shia mosque attacks Ahle Sunnah by using tactical taqiyyah methods the more khumms they receive from the Dozeners. Whereas as Sunnis they don't really have much of 12er Shia problem in local neighborhoods. Its just online where the fights start. However, upfront 12ers are good with taqiyyah where they can disguise their hatred against Sunnis very well.

The Paranoia is strong is this one. Let me guess, you too believe that shias are persecuting sunnis across the world, right?

Listen to the moderates such as Rajabali and Nakshawani. They blame it all on Umar and the Sunnis. When Yassir Habib does it bluntly he is supposedly an agent, but those who do it under taqiyyah are not?

What Rajabali and Nakshawani do is relate facts (as they see it) while taking all emotion out of it. What Yassir Al-Habib does the opposite - a lot of emotion without facts. Therein lies the difference.

Iraqis thought getting rid of Saddam and bringing a Shia government was a solution. However, the same shia government is looting their own people.

No argument from me.

But you know a lot except what you know holds more nuisance value than beneficial information.  What you will pass on to your children, for example, will be stories that will lead them to develop hatred because the Shia paradigm is almost completely empty of mercy, love and salvation.

It is funny that you mention shia hatred on a site that is meant to degrade and insult the shia.

I am amazed at how paranoid you are. As an example of shia hatred, while salafis and wahabis were chopping people, and burning them in Mosul and Fallujah and other places, Sistani opened the city of Najaf to host all refugees regardless of their faith INCLUDING Sunnis. If/When you find a mass Sunni grave in Najaf or Karbala, then we can discuss shia hate.
Move over to Pakistan, shias are taken of buses, and shot dead point blank.

I am truly serious when I say that you need to be on medication because this paranoia will lead you to hurting yourself or others.

As said previously, if Imam Ali [ra] would have been the recipient of this merit, you would have been dancing to a different beat.

Imam Ali has plenty of merits and more than the merits of all other sahaba combined that I dance too.

Your problems do not end there.

[Rationalist]

The Paranoia is strong is this one. Let me guess, you too believe that shias are persecuting sunnis across the world, right?

Its not a paranoia. Shaykh Saduq has a hadith where he says use Taqiyyah to cover up the hatred in your sect.

What Rajabali and Nakshawani do is relate facts (as they see it) while taking all emotion out of it. What Yassir Al-Habib does the opposite - a lot of emotion without facts. Therein lies the difference.

How is it different? Yassir Habib blames Umar for the killing of the Shia, and so do both Rajabali and Naskawani. One does it via taqiyyah and one does not.

[ShiaMan]

Its not a paranoia. Shaykh Saduq has a hadith where he says use Taqiyyah to cover up the hatred in your sect.

yes it is true - our taqiyyah is so strong that we chose to let thousands upon thousands of shia die and not retaliate lest our hatred be found.

How is it different? Yassir Habib blames Umar for the killing of the Shia, and so do both Rajabali and Naskawani. One does it via taqiyyah and one does not.

Yasir Al-Habib: Umar is the worst person in the world ever because he did XYZ. May he end in hell, etc, etc, etc.
Rajabali/Naskawani: Based on this book, it says Caliph Umar did XYZ.

You dont see the difference???

[Rationalist]

Yasir Al-Habib: Umar is the worst person in the world ever because he did XYZ. May he end in hell, etc, etc, etc.
Rajabali/Naskawani: Based on this book, it says Caliph Umar did XYZ.

You dont see the difference???

You think Yassir Habib doesn't provide references? He provides more references than the other two. Again this doesn't mean I think they are authentic, but he does provide references from the 12er Shia books.
As for me not seeing the difference let me show you how the other two attacked Umar in blaming him for today's problems.

Here is Rajabali quote from a reference-
The Prophet (pbuh) told Fatima she will leave the world after her. They were jealous of her, and due to their jealously they unleashed a venom against and her hit her. Today they are killing our Shia only because we love Ahlul Bayt.
So please tell me how that is a  proper reference.

Here is Nakshawani- I wish I can take the name of the person (umar) who is the root of all cause for what ISIS is doing today.

[ShiaMan]

Here is Rajabali quote from a reference-
The Prophet (pbuh) told Fatima she will leave the world after her. They were jealous of her, and due to their jealously they unleashed a venom against and her hit her. Today they are killing our Shia only because we love Ahlul Bayt.
So please tell me how that is a  proper reference.

So that I get it - Rajabali said the people were jealous of Fatima because the Prophet said she would die after him??? That doesnt even make sense.

Here is Nakshawani- I wish I can take the name of the person (umar) who is the root of all cause for what ISIS is doing today.

Conjecture.

[Rationalist]

Its not a paranoia. Shaykh Saduq has a hadith where he says use Taqiyyah to cover up the hatred in your sect.

yes it is true - our taqiyyah is so strong that we chose to let thousands upon thousands of shia die and not retaliate lest our hatred be found.

You share a similar history to our  Jewish Brothers in this regard.

So that I get it - Rajabali said the people were jealous of Fatima because the Prophet said she would die after him??? That doesnt even make sense.
[/quote]
I think he basically said they (the 2nd and co) were jealous of her, and so they supposedly killed her. Do you want to see the video?

yes it is true - our taqiyyah is so strong that we chose to let thousands upon thousands of shia die and not retaliate lest our hatred be found.

The 12ers share a very similar history to our Jewish brothers.

[Abu Jasim Al-Salafi]

Look up Dawah Guy. I called him out several times but no response. Guy was a joke.

When did you call him out and you called him out for a debate about what exactly?

[muslim720]

It is funny that you mention shia hatred on a site that is meant to degrade and insult the shia.

A madhhab that encourages insults should only be dealt with in that very manner.  Please stop making yourself out to be the victim when elsewhere you write inflammatory remarks such as, "Haven't heard from you in a while.  I thought you blew yourself up."  To parallel what you have said, it would be like someone saying to you (after a little absence on your part) that he thought you were out "mutah p!mp!ng" (hence your absence).

I am amazed at how paranoid you are. As an example of shia hatred, while salafis and wahabis were chopping people, and burning them in Mosul and Fallujah and other places, Sistani opened the city of Najaf to host all refugees regardless of their faith INCLUDING Sunnis. If/When you find a mass Sunni grave in Najaf or Karbala, then we can discuss shia hate.
Move over to Pakistan, shias are taken of buses, and shot dead point blank.

What does this have to do with me?  Kilis, a town in Turkey, was up for receiving the Nobel Peace Prize for housing more than 100,000 refugees from Syria alone so much so that Syrians outnumber Turks (in that town).  Turks did not selectively admit Sunnis while denying Shias the same privilege.  So, what was your point again?

I am truly serious when I say that you need to be on medication because this paranoia will lead you to hurting yourself or others.

When your tactic to make me out a Wahabi failed, now you are out to diagnose me with paranoia to the point of insanity.  You are one hell of a clown who knows that talk is cheap and extremely convenient when done from behind a computer screen.

Imam Ali has plenty of merits and more than the merits of all other sahaba combined that I dance too.

For one, it is good to know that you dance.  Two, we proudly narrated his merits in full and without any editing.  And dare I say this; if not for us, some of his merits - the same that you dance to - would have been something you would have been oblivious to.