TwelverShia.net Forum

Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: Rationalist on April 22, 2017, 05:20:42 AM

Title: People of Araf
Post by: Rationalist on April 22, 2017, 05:20:42 AM
In Al Kafi there is a group of people referred to A'raf. Are these non-12er Shia or are they 12er Shia who have sinned? Imam Jafar (as) stated when they have sinned their are neither Momin or Kaffir. He applies the intermediate state for their status.
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Rationalist on April 23, 2017, 03:47:26 AM
Zlatan Ibrahimovic can you provide an explanation?
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Hani on April 23, 2017, 05:18:26 AM
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on April 23, 2017, 08:36:10 AM
It seems to me it is non-twelvers.
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Rationalist on April 23, 2017, 07:01:57 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on April 23, 2017, 09:37:10 PM
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Rationalist on April 23, 2017, 10:13:07 PM
I agree with you on that, but Shaykh Mufid and Sharif Murtaza agree with the Mutazilla on that point.  In fact Sharif Murtaza made this claim:

Al-Murtada has written in the Kitab al-Munyat wal Amal while explaining the ranks and categories of Mu’tazilah that the initial Mu’tazalis were from the Aal al-Bait themselves. He writes that Ali Zayn al-Abedeen and his son al-Baqir; al-Hasan and al-Husain before them and Muhammad bin al-Hanafiyah their brother – all of them were Mu’tazalis
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Rationalist on April 23, 2017, 10:14:19 PM
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Please explain the different view points on Tafwid.
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on April 24, 2017, 05:26:09 AM
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Please explain the different view points on Tafwid.

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, the mu'tazilis do not believe in predestination?
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Hani on April 24, 2017, 06:13:32 AM
The majority (http://www.dorar.net/enc/firq/1526) of old Rafidah believed in predestination. The later Twelvers got affected by Mutazili idealogy and switched positions to believe that servants create their own actions.
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on April 24, 2017, 06:14:28 AM
The majority (http://www.dorar.net/enc/firq/1526) of old Rafidah believed in predestination. The later Twelvers got affected by Mutazili idealogy and switched positions to believe that servants create their own actions.

Actually our hadiths tell us it is "Amrun Bayna Amrayn".
Title: Re: People of Araf
Post by: Hani on April 24, 2017, 06:18:44 AM
Ash'aries and most AhlulSunnah believe it's something between the two. In other words, they're saying "It's beyond our comprehension." Al Ashari developed al-Kasb which is the most popular theory.