People of Araf

[Rationalist]

In Al Kafi there is a group of people referred to A'raf. Are these non-12er Shia or are they 12er Shia who have sinned? Imam Jafar (as) stated when they have sinned their are neither Momin or Kaffir. He applies the intermediate state for their status.

[Rationalist]

Zlatan Ibrahimovic can you provide an explanation?

[Hani]

Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

It seems to me it is non-twelvers.

[Rationalist]

Thanks

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

[Rationalist]

I agree with you on that, but Shaykh Mufid and Sharif Murtaza agree with the Mutazilla on that point.  In fact Sharif Murtaza made this claim:

Al-Murtada has written in the Kitab al-Munyat wal Amal while explaining the ranks and categories of Mu’tazilah that the initial Mu’tazalis were from the Aal al-Bait themselves. He writes that Ali Zayn al-Abedeen and his son al-Baqir; al-Hasan and al-Husain before them and Muhammad bin al-Hanafiyah their brother – all of them were Mu’tazalis

[Rationalist]

Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Please explain the different view points on Tafwid.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Please explain the different view points on Tafwid.

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, the mu'tazilis do not believe in predestination?

[Hani]

The majority of old Rafidah believed in predestination. The later Twelvers got affected by Mutazili idealogy and switched positions to believe that servants create their own actions.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

The majority of old Rafidah believed in predestination. The later Twelvers got affected by Mutazili idealogy and switched positions to believe that servants create their own actions.

Actually our hadiths tell us it is "Amrun Bayna Amrayn".

[Hani]

Ash'aries and most AhlulSunnah believe it's something between the two. In other words, they're saying "It's beyond our comprehension." Al Ashari developed al-Kasb which is the most popular theory.