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People of Araf

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Rationalist

People of Araf
« on: April 22, 2017, 05:20:42 AM »
In Al Kafi there is a group of people referred to A'raf. Are these non-12er Shia or are they 12er Shia who have sinned? Imam Jafar (as) stated when they have sinned their are neither Momin or Kaffir. He applies the intermediate state for their status.

Rationalist

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 03:47:26 AM »
Zlatan Ibrahimovic can you provide an explanation?

Hani

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 05:18:26 AM »
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 08:36:10 AM »
It seems to me it is non-twelvers.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Rationalist

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 07:01:57 PM »
Thanks

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 09:37:10 PM »
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Rationalist

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 10:13:07 PM »
I agree with you on that, but Shaykh Mufid and Sharif Murtaza agree with the Mutazilla on that point.  In fact Sharif Murtaza made this claim:

Al-Murtada has written in the Kitab al-Munyat wal Amal while explaining the ranks and categories of Mu’tazilah that the initial Mu’tazalis were from the Aal al-Bait themselves. He writes that Ali Zayn al-Abedeen and his son al-Baqir; al-Hasan and al-Husain before them and Muhammad bin al-Hanafiyah their brother – all of them were Mu’tazalis

Rationalist

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 10:14:19 PM »
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Please explain the different view points on Tafwid.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 05:26:09 AM »
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.
Ja`far al-Sadiq was always a Mu`tazili at heart : p

SubhanAllah what coincidences and similarities between the Mu`tazillah and what the late Qummies attributed to Ja`far.

Imam Al-Sadiq (as) rejects the claim of the mu'tazilis when it comes Jabr and Tafweedh.

Please explain the different view points on Tafwid.

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, the mu'tazilis do not believe in predestination?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hani

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 06:13:32 AM »
The majority of old Rafidah believed in predestination. The later Twelvers got affected by Mutazili idealogy and switched positions to believe that servants create their own actions.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2017, 06:14:28 AM »
The majority of old Rafidah believed in predestination. The later Twelvers got affected by Mutazili idealogy and switched positions to believe that servants create their own actions.

Actually our hadiths tell us it is "Amrun Bayna Amrayn".
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hani

Re: People of Araf
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2017, 06:18:44 AM »
Ash'aries and most AhlulSunnah believe it's something between the two. In other words, they're saying "It's beyond our comprehension." Al Ashari developed al-Kasb which is the most popular theory.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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