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So i went to my first sunni gathering...

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sid

So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« on: August 12, 2017, 04:45:17 PM »
and i must say i was very dissapointed.It made me believe in the infallible imams more because it felt dissapointing when he spoke about imams( not the ahlulbayt) but i mean other sunni scholars , for which he said 90% dont know how to do proper counseling, it was a counseling session for us, the rest were teenagers so they werent affected but for me, it seemed like is our religion really hanging on to fallible beings that dont know how to solve everyday problems?? especially the ones affecting kids. if it wasnt for believing in the wisdom of the true ahlulbayt, i might have grown very dissapointed in islam that night. and im not joking, i went there with an open mind, not a closed one, now im going to try to visit a shia scholar to see whats up.i mean if you listen to brother jaffer jaffers (shia scholar of toronto)lectures ,theyre really good and seem guided, but when i listen to sunnis , it seems, people just speak according to howthey want to speak and i have a high islamic standard of how someone should be, of course we're all not fallible, but youd expect a scholar to be of higher knowledge and caliber, which the ayatollahs themselves had.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 06:52:39 PM »
and i must say i was very dissapointed.It made me believe in the infallible imams more because it felt dissapointing when he spoke about imams( not the ahlulbayt) but i mean other sunni scholars , for which he said 90% dont know how to do proper counseling, it was a counseling session for us,
I haven't heard of any Sunni, who claims to have met 90% of all Sunni Imams/scholars inorder to Judge their counseling capabilities. Which means you approached a wrong person and gathering.

So you can't judge the correctness of a Madhab, by the viewings of some random uninformed people. Just like you cannot judge how good a Ferarri is by looking at a driver who doesn't know how to drive it.

Secondly, I don't think Infallible Shia Imam does the counseling either, for the Shias, that is why you see so many differences and chaos among Shias themselves.

As for counseling, I have seen a number of times Shia sisters seeking the counseling of some Sunni Scholars who are well known in a particular field, and getting benefited from them.

I can share an example wherein a Shia sister was affected through Magic done by some of her in-laws, She attended counseling from various Shia counselors and Shia spiritual healers, but gained no satisfactory benefit from it, and her condition worsened, she tried a Sunni counselor as well who turned out to be a con-man, but she was sincere in her prayer to Allah, hence Allah(swt) helped her in this issue. A Sunni sister who was a co-worker of her, referred her to a genuine Spiritual healer, who by the help of Allah cured her from the magic spell and the problems she was facing due to it.

Anyways, I don't think that the criteria you set is right. I neither think all Shia counselors are good in regards to issues about Kids, nor all are bad, same goes for Sunnis. So, it shouldn't be your criteria to judge which Mahdhab is upon truth. Moreover,  I believe this issue of counseling is not restricted to Sunni or Shia, but there can be good counselors amongst other religions as well, like Christians counselors etc.


As for the reason why Sunni Madhab is more worthy to be considered as the Saved sect, then you can refer to this article:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2016/11/10/12-reasons-leave-shiasm/
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 07:03:30 PM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

sid

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 07:25:46 PM »
and i must say i was very dissapointed.It made me believe in the infallible imams more because it felt dissapointing when he spoke about imams( not the ahlulbayt) but i mean other sunni scholars , for which he said 90% dont know how to do proper counseling, it was a counseling session for us,
I haven't heard of any Sunni, who claims to have met 90% of all Sunni Imams/scholars inorder to Judge their counseling capabilities. Which means you approached a wrong person and gathering.

So you can't judge the correctness of a Madhab, by the viewings of some random uninformed people. Just like you cannot judge how good a Ferarri is by looking at a driver who doesn't know how to drive it.

Secondly, I don't think Infallible Shia Imam does the counseling either, for the Shias, that is why you see so many differences and chaos among Shias themselves.

As for counseling, I have seen a number of times Shia sisters seeking the counseling of some Sunni Scholars who are well known in a particular field, and getting benefited from them.

I can share an example wherein a Shia sister was affected through Magic done by some of her in-laws, She attended counseling from various Shia counselors and Shia spiritual healers, but gained no satisfactory benefit from it, and her condition worsened, she tried a Sunni counselor as well who turned out to be a con-man, but she was sincere in her prayer to Allah, hence Allah(swt) helped her in this issue. A Sunni sister who was a co-worker of her, referred her to a genuine Spiritual healer, who by the help of Allah cured her from the magic spell and the problems she was facing due to it.

Anyways, I don't think that the criteria you set is right. I neither think all Shia counselors are good in regards to issues about Kids, nor all are bad, same goes for Sunnis. So, it shouldn't be your criteria to judge which Mahdhab is upon truth. Moreover,  I believe this issue of counseling is not restricted to Sunni or Shia, but there can be good counselors amongst other religions as well, like Christians counselors etc.


As for the reason why Sunni Madhab is more worthy to be considered as the Saved sect, then you can refer to this article:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2016/11/10/12-reasons-leave-shiasm/

JazakAllah for your answer brother, but this man whose name is musleh khan, knows famous sunni speakers such as nouman ali khan, yasir qadhi, etc , and is even in a whatsapp group with other imams, yeah apparently i dont know how many imams, but quite a number are in one whatsapp group so i bet he has idea and he wouldnt be lying or is a con man you can search up sheikh musleh khan brother.

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Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 08:59:52 PM »
and i must say i was very dissapointed.It made me believe in the infallible imams more because it felt dissapointing when he spoke about imams( not the ahlulbayt) but i mean other sunni scholars , for which he said 90% dont know how to do proper counseling, it was a counseling session for us, the rest were teenagers so they werent affected but for me, it seemed like is our religion really hanging on to fallible beings that dont know how to solve everyday problems?? especially the ones affecting kids. if it wasnt for believing in the wisdom of the true ahlulbayt, i might have grown very dissapointed in islam that night. and im not joking, i went there with an open mind, not a closed one, now im going to try to visit a shia scholar to see whats up.i mean if you listen to brother jaffer jaffers (shia scholar of toronto)lectures ,theyre really good and seem guided, but when i listen to sunnis , it seems, people just speak according to howthey want to speak and i have a high islamic standard of how someone should be, of course we're all not fallible, but youd expect a scholar to be of higher knowledge and caliber, which the ayatollahs themselves had.

Salam Alaikum,

I always wondered when Shia make statements like this when talking about Sunnis:

Quote
our religion really hanging on to fallible beings that dont know how to solve everyday problems

So who are the "infallibles" who are solving everyday Shia problems? The Shia Ayatollahs? Are they infallible? Who else?


در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 12:58:47 AM »
and i must say i was very dissapointed.It made me believe in the infallible imams more because it felt dissapointing when he spoke about imams( not the ahlulbayt) but i mean other sunni scholars , for which he said 90% dont know how to do proper counseling, it was a counseling session for us,
I haven't heard of any Sunni, who claims to have met 90% of all Sunni Imams/scholars inorder to Judge their counseling capabilities. Which means you approached a wrong person and gathering.

So you can't judge the correctness of a Madhab, by the viewings of some random uninformed people. Just like you cannot judge how good a Ferarri is by looking at a driver who doesn't know how to drive it.

Secondly, I don't think Infallible Shia Imam does the counseling either, for the Shias, that is why you see so many differences and chaos among Shias themselves.

As for counseling, I have seen a number of times Shia sisters seeking the counseling of some Sunni Scholars who are well known in a particular field, and getting benefited from them.

I can share an example wherein a Shia sister was affected through Magic done by some of her in-laws, She attended counseling from various Shia counselors and Shia spiritual healers, but gained no satisfactory benefit from it, and her condition worsened, she tried a Sunni counselor as well who turned out to be a con-man, but she was sincere in her prayer to Allah, hence Allah(swt) helped her in this issue. A Sunni sister who was a co-worker of her, referred her to a genuine Spiritual healer, who by the help of Allah cured her from the magic spell and the problems she was facing due to it.

Anyways, I don't think that the criteria you set is right. I neither think all Shia counselors are good in regards to issues about Kids, nor all are bad, same goes for Sunnis. So, it shouldn't be your criteria to judge which Mahdhab is upon truth. Moreover,  I believe this issue of counseling is not restricted to Sunni or Shia, but there can be good counselors amongst other religions as well, like Christians counselors etc.


As for the reason why Sunni Madhab is more worthy to be considered as the Saved sect, then you can refer to this article:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2016/11/10/12-reasons-leave-shiasm/

JazakAllah for your answer brother, but this man whose name is musleh khan, knows famous sunni speakers such as nouman ali khan, yasir qadhi, etc , and is even in a whatsapp group with other imams, yeah apparently i dont know how many imams, but quite a number are in one whatsapp group so i bet he has idea and he wouldnt be lying or is a con man you can search up sheikh musleh khan brother.

wa iyyaki.

He doesn't know 90% of Sunni Scholars, for sure.

Secondly, You could ask hi about those 10% of Scholars whom he thinks are good in counseling.

Thirdly, it seems that this guy based his opinion on segregating between the Saved sect and the remaining sects in Muslim Ummah. As the Hadeeth of Prophet(saws) goes, 72 sects will go into fire, except one. So it seems that the 90% he mentioned being improper in counseling could be from the sects which he considers to be unrelated to the saved sect.

Wallahu alam.

sid

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 02:00:39 AM »
and i must say i was very dissapointed.It made me believe in the infallible imams more because it felt dissapointing when he spoke about imams( not the ahlulbayt) but i mean other sunni scholars , for which he said 90% dont know how to do proper counseling, it was a counseling session for us, the rest were teenagers so they werent affected but for me, it seemed like is our religion really hanging on to fallible beings that dont know how to solve everyday problems?? especially the ones affecting kids. if it wasnt for believing in the wisdom of the true ahlulbayt, i might have grown very dissapointed in islam that night. and im not joking, i went there with an open mind, not a closed one, now im going to try to visit a shia scholar to see whats up.i mean if you listen to brother jaffer jaffers (shia scholar of toronto)lectures ,theyre really good and seem guided, but when i listen to sunnis , it seems, people just speak according to howthey want to speak and i have a high islamic standard of how someone should be, of course we're all not fallible, but youd expect a scholar to be of higher knowledge and caliber, which the ayatollahs themselves had.

Salam Alaikum,

I always wondered when Shia make statements like this when talking about Sunnis:

Quote
our religion really hanging on to fallible beings that dont know how to solve everyday problems

So who are the "infallibles" who are solving everyday Shia problems? The Shia Ayatollahs? Are they infallible? Who else?

of course we're all not fallible, but youd expect a scholar to be of higher knowledge and caliber, which the ayatollahs themselves had.

sid

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 02:03:28 AM »
and i must say i was very dissapointed.It made me believe in the infallible imams more because it felt dissapointing when he spoke about imams( not the ahlulbayt) but i mean other sunni scholars , for which he said 90% dont know how to do proper counseling, it was a counseling session for us,
I haven't heard of any Sunni, who claims to have met 90% of all Sunni Imams/scholars inorder to Judge their counseling capabilities. Which means you approached a wrong person and gathering.

So you can't judge the correctness of a Madhab, by the viewings of some random uninformed people. Just like you cannot judge how good a Ferarri is by looking at a driver who doesn't know how to drive it.

Secondly, I don't think Infallible Shia Imam does the counseling either, for the Shias, that is why you see so many differences and chaos among Shias themselves.

As for counseling, I have seen a number of times Shia sisters seeking the counseling of some Sunni Scholars who are well known in a particular field, and getting benefited from them.

I can share an example wherein a Shia sister was affected through Magic done by some of her in-laws, She attended counseling from various Shia counselors and Shia spiritual healers, but gained no satisfactory benefit from it, and her condition worsened, she tried a Sunni counselor as well who turned out to be a con-man, but she was sincere in her prayer to Allah, hence Allah(swt) helped her in this issue. A Sunni sister who was a co-worker of her, referred her to a genuine Spiritual healer, who by the help of Allah cured her from the magic spell and the problems she was facing due to it.

Anyways, I don't think that the criteria you set is right. I neither think all Shia counselors are good in regards to issues about Kids, nor all are bad, same goes for Sunnis. So, it shouldn't be your criteria to judge which Mahdhab is upon truth. Moreover,  I believe this issue of counseling is not restricted to Sunni or Shia, but there can be good counselors amongst other religions as well, like Christians counselors etc.


As for the reason why Sunni Madhab is more worthy to be considered as the Saved sect, then you can refer to this article:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2016/11/10/12-reasons-leave-shiasm/

JazakAllah for your answer brother, but this man whose name is musleh khan, knows famous sunni speakers such as nouman ali khan, yasir qadhi, etc , and is even in a whatsapp group with other imams, yeah apparently i dont know how many imams, but quite a number are in one whatsapp group so i bet he has idea and he wouldnt be lying or is a con man you can search up sheikh musleh khan brother.

wa iyyaki.

He doesn't know 90% of Sunni Scholars, for sure.

Secondly, You could ask hi about those 10% of Scholars whom he thinks are good in counseling.

Thirdly, it seems that this guy based his opinion on segregating between the Saved sect and the remaining sects in Muslim Ummah. As the Hadeeth of Prophet(saws) goes, 72 sects will go into fire, except one. So it seems that the 90% he mentioned being improper in counseling could be from the sects which he considers to be unrelated to the saved sect.

Wallahu alam.

Brother, you could ask these questions from musleh khan himself so he can clarify his position for all of us, here is a website explaining his qualifications, and i am guessing all those imams he knows are likely sunni not a minority sect
http://islamicinstitute.ca/Instructor-Bio.aspx?i=22

Hadrami

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 10:20:58 AM »
there are many counselors who are expert in dealing with youth issues and if they are atheist, agnostic, are you gonna end up an atheist or agnostic just because of that?

What do you want anyway? Worship Allah or worship their counselling skills?

sid

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 06:37:03 PM »
there are many counselors who are expert in dealing with youth issues and if they are atheist, agnostic, are you gonna end up an atheist or agnostic just because of that?

What do you want anyway? Worship Allah or worship their counselling skills?

What the?? so does that mean scholars are just there to recite quran and pray namaz? they are there for the community to help them in their problems,thats what they are for, you sound like oh if you need help dont turn to our scholars cuz theyre incompetent, you jerk, what and who was Prophet Muhammad pbuh and hf, he was someonoe whom people used to come for advice ,and help remember??!!!!! then what are scholars supposed to be?? how are you going to advise the muslim ummah if you dont recognize their problems, you just gave them most stupidest statement i have ever heard.

Farid

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 07:43:08 PM »
Everyone has their own specialty. Recitors CAN give good advice. However, as you know, many of them don't even understand what they are reciting.

I know a da'ee who is a specialist in marriage and family counseling. However, he only has basic knowledge in Shari'ah.

So it really does depend on the person and whether they learned how to deal with social issues or not.

I don't think Shia scholars are walking copies of Nahj Al Balagha either by the way.

Hadrami

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2017, 05:10:00 AM »
there are many counselors who are expert in dealing with youth issues and if they are atheist, agnostic, are you gonna end up an atheist or agnostic just because of that?

What do you want anyway? Worship Allah or worship their counselling skills?

What the?? so does that mean scholars are just there to recite quran and pray namaz? they are there for the community to help them in their problems,thats what they are for, you sound like oh if you need help dont turn to our scholars cuz theyre incompetent, you jerk, what and who was Prophet Muhammad pbuh and hf, he was someonoe whom people used to come for advice ,and help remember??!!!!! then what are scholars supposed to be?? how are you going to advise the muslim ummah if you dont recognize their problems, you just gave them most stupidest statement i have ever heard.

Where did i say that a scholar shouldnt help his community? Of course an ideal scholar should be in touch with today's problem & able to help other people. What you said was because he couldnt help you with your issue then his Islam must be wrong and shiism is correct. TIs that your method of comparing sunni & shia belief? On whether you can find a good counselor or not? So you cant find another sunni scholar or even non scholar who are more capable to help you than him? 😐
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 05:23:40 AM by Hadrami »

Rationalist

Re: So i went to my first sunni gathering...
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 05:14:33 PM »
You come from an emotional background, so I think you expected a romantic setting, and you didn't see it when you went to one Sunni mosque. I am sure you would have more luck at a Sikh Guruwara, where they would teach you lessons on how their infallible Gurus stood up against Muslim dhalims, and how Guru Arjan even sat in a hot plate and became the first Shaheed.

 

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