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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: Muhammad Tazin on February 28, 2015, 08:45:18 AM

Title: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Muhammad Tazin on February 28, 2015, 08:45:18 AM
I think this is one of the source from where blind copy-paste comes

http://www.mezan.net/radalshobohat/Menu.htm

And I've seen them collecting all the narrations about Thaqlayn from Kitab of Ahlus Sunnah-
http://www.haydarya.com/maktaba_moktasah/03/book_53/01.htm
Title: Re: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Husayn on February 28, 2015, 09:13:11 AM
Apparently mutassil hadith regarding the wilayah of 'Ali:

حديث السلسلة الذهبية ( 2 )
 
السيد اليزدي - العروة الوثقى - الجزء : ( 2 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 76 )
 
( حديث صحيح متصل السند )
 
- حدثنا : أحمد بن الحسن القطان قال : ، حدثنا : عبد الكريم بن محمد الحسيني قال : ، حدثنا : محمد بن إبراهيم الرازي ، قال : ، حدثنا : عبد الله بن يحيى الأهوازي قال : ، حدثني : أبو الحسن علي بن عمرو ، قال : ، حدثنا : الحسن بن محمد بن جمهور ، قال : ، حدثني : علي بن بلال ، عن علي بن موسى الرضا (ع) ، عن موسى بن جعفر (ع) ، عن جعفر بن محمد (ع) ، عن محمد بن علي (ع) ، عن علي بن الحسين (ع) ، عن الحسين بن علي (ع)، عن علي بن أبي طالب (ع) ، عن رسول الله (ص) ، عن جبرئيل ، عن ميكائيل ، عن إسرافيل (ع) ، عن اللوح والقلم قال : يقول الله عز وجل : ولاية علي بن أبي طالب حصني ، فمن دخل حصني أمن من ناري.

Can someone (Farid, Hani) deconstruct this?

So the Prophet (saw) narrated from Gibrail (as), from Mikael (as), from Israfil (as) that Allah (swt) says:

Wilyah of 'Ali is my Fortress - whoever enters my fortress is saved from My Fire.

So I did a random search, is  أحمد بن الحسن القطان a Sunni or am I completely off?
Title: Re: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Ameen on February 28, 2015, 11:36:54 AM
I think this is one of the source from where blind copy-paste comes

http://www.mezan.net/radalshobohat/Menu.htm

And I've seen them collecting all the narrations about Thaqlayn from Kitab of Ahlus Sunnah-
http://www.haydarya.com/maktaba_moktasah/03/book_53/01.htm

So what do you mean by "blind copy paste"??? What's blind about it or where is the blindness???
Title: Re: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Muhammad Tazin on February 28, 2015, 12:05:41 PM


So what do you mean by "blind copy paste"??? What's blind about it or where is the blindness???

I meant that, without authenticating  .
Title: Re: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Ameen on February 28, 2015, 01:42:30 PM


So what do you mean by "blind copy paste"??? What's blind about it or where is the blindness???

I meant that, without authenticating  .

Ok brother. I have asked this many times but haven't got a reply yet.

What is authentic and what isn't??? Do we have any criteria/procedure about this??? Or do we simply leave it to the other side that what ever they put forward is not authentic and therefore unreliable. Is there anything authentic and reliable that the Shias have put forward??? Anything acceptable??? May be just one out of ten or twenty???








Title: Re: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Hani on February 28, 2015, 03:43:54 PM
@Ameen,

Review this for a brief introduction to Hadith sciences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_studies

Or watch lectures such as:


Or:
Title: Re: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Hani on February 28, 2015, 03:59:15 PM
Apparently mutassil hadith regarding the wilayah of 'Ali:

حديث السلسلة الذهبية ( 2 )
 
السيد اليزدي - العروة الوثقى - الجزء : ( 2 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 76 )
 
( حديث صحيح متصل السند )
 
- حدثنا : أحمد بن الحسن القطان قال : ، حدثنا : عبد الكريم بن محمد الحسيني قال : ، حدثنا : محمد بن إبراهيم الرازي ، قال : ، حدثنا : عبد الله بن يحيى الأهوازي قال : ، حدثني : أبو الحسن علي بن عمرو ، قال : ، حدثنا : الحسن بن محمد بن جمهور ، قال : ، حدثني : علي بن بلال ، عن علي بن موسى الرضا (ع) ، عن موسى بن جعفر (ع) ، عن جعفر بن محمد (ع) ، عن محمد بن علي (ع) ، عن علي بن الحسين (ع) ، عن الحسين بن علي (ع)، عن علي بن أبي طالب (ع) ، عن رسول الله (ص) ، عن جبرئيل ، عن ميكائيل ، عن إسرافيل (ع) ، عن اللوح والقلم قال : يقول الله عز وجل : ولاية علي بن أبي طالب حصني ، فمن دخل حصني أمن من ناري.

Can someone (Farid, Hani) deconstruct this?

So the Prophet (saw) narrated from Gibrail (as), from Mikael (as), from Israfil (as) that Allah (swt) says:

Wilyah of 'Ali is my Fortress - whoever enters my fortress is saved from My Fire.

So I did a random search, is  أحمد بن الحسن القطان a Sunni or am I completely off?

Hahahaha!!! What the heck is this chain!? From Rasul-Allah, from Jibreel, from Mika'eel, from Israfeel, from the board and the pen, that they said: Allah says etc...

Someone has to be a mental retard to narrate something with such a dumb sounding chain.

Heck maybe it's weak because Jibreel did Tadlees and never declared hearing from Mika'eel, this chain just made my day!

Now this Ahmad bin al-Hasan al-Qattan is from the teachers of Saduq, let's check

508 - 508 - 511 - أحمد بن الحسن القطان: المعروف بابي علي بن عبد ربه " عبدويه " من مشايخ الصدوق، الأمالي - مجهول - لا يبعد ان يكون
عاميا - متحد مع أحمد بن الحسن بن علي 492 وأحمد بن الحسين القطان 535.

He is known as ibn `Ali bin `Abd-Rabbih, from the teachers of Saduq - MAJHOOL - it is not unlikely that he is a `Aami(Sunni).

This chain is looking way too golden already. We're honored to have a Sunni in the Shia's golden chain.

As for the second guy `Abdul-Kareem bin Muhammad al-Husayni, I dunno who he is. Ask Farid or Nader.



Title: Re: Source of SHIA propaganda/Shubhat
Post by: Furkan on February 28, 2015, 04:57:22 PM
Hahahaha, i have never come across a chain like that.