TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: MuslimK on July 10, 2017, 01:40:10 AM
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Iranian Ex-Shia researcher brother Hassan Shemrani (Ebn Hussein) has accepted the debate challenge of Shia scholar Hassan Allahyari.
Video:
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Can't wait for this to happen. Allahyari dug a hole for himself.
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Can't wait for this to happen. Allahyari dug a hole for himself.
I've seen Allahyari in action. But no clue who this ex-Shia brother is. I hope he's ready and knows how to debate, especially with someone like Allahyari. It's not enough to be considered worthy for an official debate simply by having knowledge of the material. You have to be street smarts and know the art of debating too. For debating, the science of Mantiq is indispensable. Otherwise a debater with little knowledge who is clearly taking an indefensible position can eat an Aalim for breakfast who is defending the truth if the Aalim hasn't mastered the art of debating and the other debater knows the tools of Mantiq.
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I've seen Allahyari in action. But no clue who this ex-Shia brother is.
He is a seasoned member of this forum.
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He is a seasoned member of this forum.
Which language will he debate Allahyari in? The latter speaks English, Persian, Arabic and even Urdu fluently.
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Which language will he debate Allahyari in? The latter speaks English, Persian, Arabic and even Urdu fluently.
I don't know. Need to ask him. Or may be brother MuslimK knows.
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Of course, the debate will be in English.
P.S. Brother Hassan is also fluent in Arabic and Persian.
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Of course, the debate will be English.
P.S. Brother Hassan is also fluent in Arabic and Persian.
I saw his interview with Muhammad Hijab. He was struggling a little in expressing himself in English. Keep that in mind, because Allahyari speaks English reasonably well.
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Shaytanyari resides in america right? Whereas the sunni brother is in the UK.
Does that devil shia extremist even debate in person face to face?
Doubt he'll come to uk for the debate, let alone accept a debate proving the 12 Imams from the Quran😂😂😂😂😂
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Shaytanyari resides in america right? Whereas the sunni brother is in the UK.
Does that devil shia extremist even debate in person face to face?
Doubt he'll come to uk for the debate, let alone accept a debate proving the 12 Imams from the Quran😂😂😂😂😂
I'm sure Allahyari will insist on a telephone debate which he will broadcast on his channel. He was invited to the UK by different Sunni groups for debate, but he said it is too much of a hassle and unnecessary. He will have trouble transporting his huge library which he needs to give references in debate. Now I'm certainly not on the side of Allahyari, but I think in this point he is right that it is wrong in this day and age to insist on face to face debates if it causes too much inconvenience. Technology is such that debates can be arranged very beautifully online with the advanced forms of communication that will allow for everything in a face to face debate, including audio, visual, etc.
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Of course, the debate will be English.
P.S. Brother Hassan is also fluent in Arabic and Persian.
I saw his interview with Muhammad Hijab. He was struggling a little in expressing himself in English. Keep that in mind, because Allahyari speaks English reasonably well.
Interesting analyses. Struggled, are you being serious? You mean me asking Hijab translating complex Arabic terminologies into English?Anwyay, English is not my first language, however I am perfectly comfortable with it and have written thousands of articles and posts in English and live since a decade permanently in the UK. So you don't need to worry, nor Allayari, I will be nice to him, and no I disagree, it is not about technology here, it is the advantage of sitting in ones comfort zone with your laptop and what not around, an advantage which I am not going to g to give him, for too long he has been hiding (and a library can be carried on a USB stick no need for a show and carrying a ton of books).
If you knew Arabic or Farsi you would of known of his outbursts and other embarassing stuff, a whole YouTube channel could be dedicated to his lies and clownish behaviour on air (including live on air head slapping, bathing in mudd and sessions of invoking Ali numerous times).
As for Arabic and Farsi: I can speak both fluently,, I am of Persian and Arab descent, however not on an academical a level, he challenged in English we debate in English.
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Ok Mr. Hussein, but here is the concern: if you insist that he comes to the UK I am pretty sure he is going to decline, as he already has done so for previous challenges to come to the UK. So then will you simply say he is too scared, he's not coming, and declare a victory, have a party, go to Pizza Hut and celebrate with your friends? If you insist on something that will not allow the debate to occur, people might interpret that (not me but other people) that you made this condition knowing full well he won't accept it. Am I right?
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Ok Mr. Hussein, but here is the concern: if you insist that he comes to the UK I am pretty sure he is going to decline, as he already has done so for previous challenges to come to the UK. So then will you simply say he is too scared, he's not coming, and declare a victory, have a party, go to Pizza Hut and celebrate with your friends? If you insist on something that will not allow the debate to occur, people might interpret that (not me but other people) that you made this condition knowing full well he won't accept it. Am I right?
Brother, my username is not Hussein, you seem to have problems reading English letters? Jokes, brother.
No, I will not declare victory, even in the even where he comes and wipes the floor, I believe in this verse:
فلا تزكوا أنفسكم هو أعلم بمن اتقى
I like to praise others do, for their good job. Anyway, that's not a childish game, that's the Deen of Allah. My condition is reasonable, and he is a TV channel owner who is hiding for too long. And what flawed logic is that? Just because he declined in the past I am not allowed to demand a reasonable condition? The whole point you are missing is that is time for him to STOP hiding in his comfort zone, it's time to face, to be present physically. I see you know a bit about debates and that is not just about knowledge, but many other factors, one factor is that sitting in your comfort zone with all your equipment (and Allah knows how much help he gets) is different then to man up and be PHYSICALLY present (alot more pressure).
So don't you worry, if he rejects I will have halal Pizza Hut without any celebration and mind my business.
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Some fun stuff from Shia chat regarding this upcoming debate:
1. They themselves know how silly it is to insult your opponent before the debate has even started:
Jama'at Umari=Umari congregation. He uses that term in his debates with sunnis, they dont seem to mind.
Muhammad Hijab would be destroyed. He's not a scholar. Allahyari should debate people of knowledge.
NOTE: We indeed take no offense in being called 'Omaris ('Omar followers), as in a way, a Muslim is a follower of Abu Bakr (Bakri), 'Omar ('Omari), 'Othman ('Othmani), 'Ali ('Alawi), Al-Hussein (Hussein) and the Prophet (saws) of course (Muhammadi), HOWEVER, this is not what we refer to ourselves, and he should have basic mannners and refer to their opponents to what they refer themselves (Ahl Al-Sunnah) even if he beliefs they are not (Ahl Al-Sunnah). A simple point that shows his manners (outside a debate or in his lectures he can call us what he wants, so do I).
2. They admit to his outbursts DURING debates
Despite what people say about allahyari, he is an absolutely fantastic debater sgainst sunni. Not so effective when debating shia, and has a tendency to get wound up and start insulting his opponent.
If he can remain calm though, even if 50 mohammad hijabs stood against him, he would still win. Hes an aggressive debater, and debating is all he does. Its his bread and butter. He cant be intimidated by the likes of hijab, and wont be bullied or mocked because he can give it back 1000 times worse. This is going to be very interesting
Now he claims it's only when he debates Shias, well, if he knew Arabic or Farsi he knew that it is not limited to his Shia-Shia debates only.
Anyway, I am not looking for excuses, just showing you, if I were to look, the confessions of his own admires would be enough, or his OWN mouth where he says that LYING upon his opponent is what his infallibles have taught him:
&t=5s
So it is not me who looks for excuses (there are plenty ready as everyone can see), I just want to be the Ex-Shia debater who managed to get that hiding champion of the Shia out of his comfort zone and show the world what a fail he and his religion are when being faced with someone who knows their religion inside out, In sha Allah.
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From the twelvershia.net youtube account 8)
Shia excuses on social media have already started, things like:
- Who appointed Hassan Shemrani from the panel anyway?
Answer: Brother Hassan doesn't need the approvement of anybody, your Sheikh Allayari has included him in the list, so by Allayari's standard brother Hassan is worth to be on the list, so who are to to complain? Are you afraid? Does it hurt because he is an Ex-Shia and Sayyid? Or what is it? As a matter of fact, Allayari said he will debate all of the people he mentioned (and brother Hassan replied he is ready to debate ten of the likes of Allayari at the same time), so Allayari himself did not put a condition that anybody must elect someone.
- What is Hassan Shemrani's formal education?
Answer: Again, this is something that did not bother Hassan Allayari as he challenged brother Hassan and put him on a list of people he wishes to debate. It is enough to know that brother Hassan is an Ex-Shia researcher, a team member of the renowned twelvershia.net project, an online activist and contributer on numerous online Sunni defsense platforms (such as Gift2Shias, Antimajos etc.), as for the lie that he he is affiliated to the Takfiri-Khariji group of Anjem Choudary (a lie by Shias), we will release a video response to that very soon, In sha Allah, so everybody, including Shias who have a sense of justice will see how shamelessly the Rafida.org group has lied upon our brother, all to character assassinate him.
Lastly, some commenters here are so desperate (most likely embarrassed) and claim that Allayari actually didn't mean that he can prove the names of the 12 Imams from the Qur'an, he meant to say from the Sunnah (which can be easily refuted too, actually has been done in one of our uploaded videos by brother Hani), little do these commenters know that in Arabic and Farsi lectures ONLINE Allayari seriously claims (based on ridiculous twistings of verses) that 'Ali's (ra) name his mentioned in the Qur'an more than once! His own followers are not aware how crazy the beliefs of their own religion and scholars are, this is what brother Hassan will expose to the world, and Allayari explicitely stated that he is happy to discuss it (NAMES of 12 Imams) from the Qur'an, period. But don't you worry, all other Shia accusations can be refuted easily too, however we will stick to main ones, In sha Allah.
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Ok Mr. Hussein
Brother, my username is not Hussein
lol, Ebn Hussein, just like Hussein, he makes Shi'ites cry. Hopefully not as long though
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lol, Ebn Hussein, just like Hussein, he makes Shi'ites cry. Hopefully not as long though
I don't like this joke. It has the stench of Nasibism in it. All Muslims are saddened by the tragic martyrdom of sayyidina Hussain al Shaheed رضى الله عنه and it is a sign of faith and love that tears roll down the cheeks when mention is made of what happened at Karbala.
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lol, Ebn Hussein, just like Hussein, he makes Shi'ites cry. Hopefully not as long though
I don't like this joke. It has the stench of Nasibism in it. All Muslims are saddened by the tragic martyrdom of sayyidina Hussain al Shaheed رضى الله عنه and it is a sign of faith and love that tears roll down the cheeks when mention is made of what happened at Karbala.
Beautifully said bro
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Of course, the debate will be English.
P.S. Brother Hassan is also fluent in Arabic and Persian.
I saw his interview with Muhammad Hijab. He was struggling a little in expressing himself in English. Keep that in mind, because Allahyari speaks English reasonably well.
Interesting analyses. Struggled, are you being serious? You mean me asking Hijab translating complex Arabic terminologies into English?Anwyay, English is not my first language, however I am perfectly comfortable with it and have written thousands of articles and posts in English and live since a decade permanently in the UK. So you don't need to worry, nor Allayari, I will be nice to him, and no I disagree, it is not about technology here, it is the advantage of sitting in ones comfort zone with your laptop and what not around, an advantage which I am not going to g to give him, for too long he has been hiding (and a library can be carried on a USB stick no need for a show and carrying a ton of books).
If you knew Arabic or Farsi you would of known of his outbursts and other embarassing stuff, a whole YouTube channel could be dedicated to his lies and clownish behaviour on air (including live on air head slapping, bathing in mudd and sessions of invoking Ali numerous times).
As for Arabic and Farsi: I can speak both fluently,, I am of Persian and Arab descent, however not on an academical a level, he challenged in English we debate in English.
If you wanted it to be fair then keep it both in the comfort zone. You in yours and he in his. Do it via online so everybody can see it. Safes the hassle of him travelling too. You know very well that he will reject to come over to the UK so to make it easy for everybody, do it via Skype.
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If you wanted it to be fair then keep it both in the comfort zone. You in yours and he in his. Do it via online so everybody can see it. Safes the hassle of him travelling too. You know very well that he will reject to come over to the UK so to make it easy for everybody, do it via Skype.
For a debate to be moderated, it needs both parties to be present at the same place at the same time. Allahyari knows that since he runs the channel, he can out-shout, out-speak, and mute his opponent. He also has access to a laptop and people around him can feed him answers behind the screen. He is like a comedian that is going against a heckler. Since he has the mic, he is in control.
Face to face debates happen all the time, even in our age of technology. Do you think that other debaters don't know that Skype exists? The travel to have a fair and moderated debate because they are confident of their position.
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Someone in the same country as him should debate
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Of course, the debate will be English.
P.S. Brother Hassan is also fluent in Arabic and Persian.
I saw his interview with Muhammad Hijab. He was struggling a little in expressing himself in English. Keep that in mind, because Allahyari speaks English reasonably well.
Interesting analyses. Struggled, are you being serious? You mean me asking Hijab translating complex Arabic terminologies into English?Anwyay, English is not my first language, however I am perfectly comfortable with it and have written thousands of articles and posts in English and live since a decade permanently in the UK. So you don't need to worry, nor Allayari, I will be nice to him, and no I disagree, it is not about technology here, it is the advantage of sitting in ones comfort zone with your laptop and what not around, an advantage which I am not going to g to give him, for too long he has been hiding (and a library can be carried on a USB stick no need for a show and carrying a ton of books).
If you knew Arabic or Farsi you would of known of his outbursts and other embarassing stuff, a whole YouTube channel could be dedicated to his lies and clownish behaviour on air (including live on air head slapping, bathing in mudd and sessions of invoking Ali numerous times).
As for Arabic and Farsi: I can speak both fluently,, I am of Persian and Arab descent, however not on an academical a level, he challenged in English we debate in English.
If you wanted it to be fair then keep it both in the comfort zone. You in yours and he in his. Do it via online so everybody can see it. Safes the hassle of him travelling too. You know very well that he will reject to come over to the UK so to make it easy for everybody, do it via Skype.
What the brother said is that BOTH shouldn't have the advantage to sit in their comfort zone, especially not Allahyari who is hiding for a decade, insulting and slandering and cutting of caller behind his screen and numerous equipment. Brother Hassan is man enough to face him, he is not.
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Someone in the same country as him should debate
He won't do that, because than he wouldn't be able to hide and people will see right through him.
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Of course, the debate will be English.
P.S. Brother Hassan is also fluent in Arabic and Persian.
I saw his interview with Muhammad Hijab. He was struggling a little in expressing himself in English. Keep that in mind, because Allahyari speaks English reasonably well.
Interesting analyses. Struggled, are you being serious? You mean me asking Hijab translating complex Arabic terminologies into English?Anwyay, English is not my first language, however I am perfectly comfortable with it and have written thousands of articles and posts in English and live since a decade permanently in the UK. So you don't need to worry, nor Allayari, I will be nice to him, and no I disagree, it is not about technology here, it is the advantage of sitting in ones comfort zone with your laptop and what not around, an advantage which I am not going to g to give him, for too long he has been hiding (and a library can be carried on a USB stick no need for a show and carrying a ton of books).
If you knew Arabic or Farsi you would of known of his outbursts and other embarassing stuff, a whole YouTube channel could be dedicated to his lies and clownish behaviour on air (including live on air head slapping, bathing in mudd and sessions of invoking Ali numerous times).
As for Arabic and Farsi: I can speak both fluently,, I am of Persian and Arab descent, however not on an academical a level, he challenged in English we debate in English.
If you wanted it to be fair then keep it both in the comfort zone. You in yours and he in his. Do it via online so everybody can see it. Safes the hassle of him travelling too. You know very well that he will reject to come over to the UK so to make it easy for everybody, do it via Skype.
What the brother said is that BOTH shouldn't have the advantage to sit in their comfort zone, especially not Allahyari who is hiding for a decade, insulting and slandering and cutting of caller behind his screen and numerous equipment. Brother Hassan is man enough to face him, he is not.
This comfort zone excuse is just annoying. Forget about the comfort zone but arrange the debate. With these silly 'comfort zone' excuses the debate will never happen.
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If you wanted it to be fair then keep it both in the comfort zone. You in yours and he in his. Do it via online so everybody can see it. Safes the hassle of him travelling too. You know very well that he will reject to come over to the UK so to make it easy for everybody, do it via Skype.
For a debate to be moderated, it needs both parties to be present at the same place at the same time. Allahyari knows that since he runs the channel, he can out-shout, out-speak, and mute his opponent. He also has access to a laptop and people around him can feed him answers behind the screen. He is like a comedian that is going against a heckler. Since he has the mic, he is in control.
Face to face debates happen all the time, even in our age of technology. Do you think that other debaters don't know that Skype exists? The travel to have a fair and moderated debate because they are confident of their position.
I'm very sure that a debate can set out properly even without being present. Why do you limit the debate in person only? Watch the debate between Abdurrahman And Asrar. It was timed and that can be done via Skype too. Planning is needed before jumping into conclusions.
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This comfort zone excuse is just annoying. Forget about the comfort zone but arrange the debate. With these silly 'comfort zone' excuses the debate will never happen.
That's from your lack of experience, there are some people you can't even debate with whether online or face to face, this man is one of them.
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If you wanted it to be fair then keep it both in the comfort zone. You in yours and he in his. Do it via online so everybody can see it. Safes the hassle of him travelling too. You know very well that he will reject to come over to the UK so to make it easy for everybody, do it via Skype.
For a debate to be moderated, it needs both parties to be present at the same place at the same time. Allahyari knows that since he runs the channel, he can out-shout, out-speak, and mute his opponent. He also has access to a laptop and people around him can feed him answers behind the screen. He is like a comedian that is going against a heckler. Since he has the mic, he is in control.
Face to face debates happen all the time, even in our age of technology. Do you think that other debaters don't know that Skype exists? The travel to have a fair and moderated debate because they are confident of their position.
I'm very sure that a debate can set out properly even without being present. Why do you limit the debate in person only? Watch the debate between Abdurrahman And Asrar. It was timed and that can be done via Skype too. Planning is needed before jumping into conclusions.
You shouldn't comment without informing yourself first. Check this: It was brother Hassan who put aside his condition (now everybody agrees that someone like Yari must be debated in person, if at all, just watch his behavior) i.e. that Allayari should attend in person, brother Hassan even told him to forget about the names of the 12 in the Qur'an, just prove the SHIA concept of Imamah from the Qur'an, but guess what, despite compromises from Hassan's side, Yari still found deceptive ways to evade the debate by trying to lure brother Hassan in tahreef debates where Yari can throw shubuhat for days!
WATCH all of it to see that what I am saying is true:
&t=1473s
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Someone can clarify: In another debate challenge in a certain locality in the UK, the Shia community there said Allahyari does not represent them, since Allahyari is allegedly an "Akhbari". Does anyone know more about this matter?
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This comfort zone excuse is just annoying. Forget about the comfort zone but arrange the debate. With these silly 'comfort zone' excuses the debate will never happen.
That's from your lack of experience, there are some people you can't even debate with whether online or face to face, this man is one of them.
And why is that?
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who is Hassan Allahyari he is doesnt belongs to Shia community even nasibis are a such loosers they debate with paid scholars like Hassan Allahyari who doesnt belong to our community and is not a scholar in my view of point he is only a fitna maker but you guys are worse then him
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who is Hassan Allahyari he is doesnt belongs to Shia community even nasibis are a such loosers they debate with paid scholars like Hassan Allahyari who doesnt belong to our community and is not a scholar in my view of point he is only a fitna maker but you guys are worse then him
Where is the proof that he is paid? Please provide us full receipts, otherwise your counter-claim is mere ranting.
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who is Hassan Allahyari he is doesnt belongs to Shia community even nasibis are a such loosers they debate with paid scholars like Hassan Allahyari who doesnt belong to our community and is not a scholar in my view of point he is only a fitna maker but you guys are worse then him
Where is the proof that he is paid? Please provide us full receipts, otherwise your counter-claim is mere ranting.
its many proof he is hiding in the Us and is getting fund by zionist to make fitna in Islamic Ummah his channel is also funded by american intelliegence and why are you guys debating with him he is not Shia biggest scholars he is not in the list of Shia scholars
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^
First of all, who has placed any random individual Shia on the position to include and exclude people from the Shia religion based on conspiracies? This seems very Daesh-like to me.
Anyway, what we have asked is to provide proof like receipts: America is actually quite organized, I am sure some "Real" Shia can get a hold of Allahyari organization's tax returns and show us the expenditures and income of his channel and organization and apparently who is 'really' funding him.
As far as it seems now though, Twelvers are playing the same game as the Islamophobes: Present themselves as one thing is one day and another day change it to some other matter. For Islamophobbes, we have people like Ayan Hirsi and Nonie Darwish, one day they are brave Muslim reformers and the other day they are former Muslims.
For the Twelver Shias, we Sunnis see the same with respect to famous figures like Allahyari, Yasir Habib and Ammar Nakhshawani: First have their speeches and positions splattered in different places to 'expose' Sunnism, then as soon as there is trouble or a strong counter-reaction roll out some other Shias to say they are Akhbaris or that they do not even belong to the Shia religion, or that they are paid by the CIA, and other such double-talk.