T110: Not Another Iceman

[muslim720]

I didn't declare him a coward.

Deny it one more time and I will make the screenshot my signature.

He didn't run from the battlefield and from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. He didn't abandon the Prophet s.a.w and leave him stranded. If he did then most certainly he would be a coward.

He has done worse!  According to your faith, the world cannot remain without an Imam and the one upon whom the world relies has shunned all responsibilities and is only concerned about his own well-being.

We don't have a problem with that. When you start to raise their status above what they are or start to put them above others that's were the problem lies.

Allah (swt) praises Muhajiroon and Ansar without making any distinctions and has Forgiven those who fled from battles.  Unfortunately for you, your second and third Imams (ra) are neither Muhajir nor Ansar so it is you who actually put them above those whom Allah (swt) praised in the Qur'an.

Nope. When you constantly accuse Al Mahdi of being a coward and going into hiding then relevant, approximate and the right stuff is mentioned and brought forward.

I am not accusing anyone of cowardice.  I am making a logical inference based on Shi'i beliefs.  He is tasked to be "The Guide" whereas he is more concerned about his own safety and well-being despite the fact that he (allegedly) has control over the atoms.

We aren't the enemies of Islam. The enemies of Islam were at the Battle of Ohad from whom they ran. You accusing us doesn't mean or stand for anything.

What is "Ohad"?  Persian accent much?

Allah FORGAVE them. He didn't REWARD them.

Prove it!

They opposed Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. Apart from that they didn't oppose anyone.

...and you could not refute this point!  According to your beliefs, the Sahaba (ra) opposed your "infallibles" (ra).  And yet the Qur'an guarantees the same Sahaba (ra) paradise.  A catastrophe for you!

What ever orders were given to the Prophets they carried them out regardless of the outcome. What ever orders were given to the Imams they carried them out regardless of the outcome.

lol, he is hiding!  What orders has he carried out?  Majority of your books of ahaadith are full of dubious reports, an admission made by your own scholars as well, and the 12th one is only concerned about his own safety.

So what do think and make of those who actually fled the battlefield from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w leaving the Prophet s.a.w abandoned and stranded.

Allah (swt) forgave them and when Allah (swt) decides on a matter, "we hear and we obey".

Nope. You've got it wrong again as usual. He went into OCCULTATION not into HIDING. Not to protect himself but to let the Ummah get on with it.

Get on with what?  So you are saying that the 12th Imam has purposefully left us to misguidance?  You are a bigger disaster than Chernobyl!

[iceman]

Deny it one more time and I will make the screenshot my signature.


He has done worse!  According to your faith, the world cannot remain without an Imam and the one upon whom the world relies has shunned all responsibilities and is only concerned about his own well-being.


Allah (swt) praises Muhajiroon and Ansar without making any distinctions and has Forgiven those who fled from battles.  Unfortunately for you, your second and third Imams (ra) are neither Muhajir nor Ansar so it is you who actually put them above those whom Allah (swt) praised in the Qur'an.


I am not accusing anyone of cowardice.  I am making a logical inference based on Shi'i beliefs.  He is tasked to be "The Guide" whereas he is more concerned about his own safety and well-being despite the fact that he (allegedly) has control over the atoms.


What is "Ohad"?  Persian accent much?


Prove it!


...and you could not refute this point!  According to your beliefs, the Sahaba (ra) opposed your "infallibles" (ra).  And yet the Qur'an guarantees the same Sahaba (ra) paradise.  A catastrophe for you!


lol, he is hiding!  What orders has he carried out?  Majority of your books of ahaadith are full of dubious reports, an admission made by your own scholars as well, and the 12th one is only concerned about his own safety.


Allah (swt) forgave them and when Allah (swt) decides on a matter, "we hear and we obey".


Get on with what?  So you are saying that the 12th Imam has purposefully left us to misguidance?  You are a bigger disaster than Chernobyl!

"Deny it one more time and I will make the screenshot my signature"

BRING IT ON.

"I will make the screenshot my signature"

I know you love to blow your own trumpet.

"And yet the Qur'an guarantees the same Sahaba (ra) paradise.  A catastrophe for you"

You need to prove this catastrophe. Lets see and hear it.

"He has done worse"

What did he do. Flee the battlefield from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind abandoned and stranded. Forgiveness or no forgiveness, it doesn't matter, it was still a cowardice act. And no one can deny that or hide it behind forgiveness. Carry on moaning about it.

"Allah (swt) praises Muhajiroon and Ansar without making any distinctions and has Forgiven those who fled from battles"

Allah also mentions plenty of things in the Qur'an. Those who raise their voices in front of the Prophet s.a.w and who put their voices above the Prophet's s.a.w voice. And those who speak and convey secretly behind the Prophet's s.a.w back. And much much more. At the end of the day they weren't saints. Get over it.

"I am not accusing anyone of cowardice.  I am making a logical inference based on Shi'i beliefs"

And in response I'm putting reality and facts forward to you. And each time I put it the cat seems to grab your tongue.

"The Guide" whereas he is more concerned about his own safety and well-being despite the fact that he (allegedly) has control over the atoms"

And they suppose to be the companions of the Prophet s.a.w. They suppose to put the Prophet s.a.w before their own lives. But they put it the other way around..They abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded. Some friends and companions. They ran like hell man just to save their own lives. And the verses you speak about in the Qur'an are for those and in praise of those who didn't flee. For those who fought bravely and either perished or remained steadfast in battle. Not for the ones who fled.

"According to your beliefs, the Sahaba (ra) opposed your "infallibles" (ra)"

The Sahaba you speak about opposed the Prophet s.a.w in his final days as well as in the battlefield by fleeing.

"Allah (swt) forgave them and when Allah (swt) decides on a matter, "we hear and we obey".

So does that mean they're not cowards when they flee the battlefield. So does that mean the act of fleeing wasn't cowardly.

As far as Imamah and the 12th Imam is concerned, first free your brainwashed mind by having an open mind and do some research. Otherwise nothing is getting through to you or will get through the to you. You'll be coming back with ridiculous excuses and examples as though you're a child in kindergarten.

[muslim720]

BRING IT ON.

Like the attached image?  haha!

You need to prove this catastrophe. Lets see and hear it.

Those who have Allah's (swt) forgiveness are bound to Jannah.  Plus, there are ample verses that praise the Sahaba (ra).  Unfortunately for you, except Imam Ali (ra), the verses praising Muhajir and Ansar do not apply to your Imams (ra).

What did he do. Flee the battlefield from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind abandoned and stranded.

He did not do anything; he has yet to do something and that is his biggest mistake which completely undermines his position, lol.

Forgiveness or no forgiveness, it doesn't matter, it was still a cowardice act. And no one can deny that or hide it behind forgiveness. Carry on moaning about it.

Allah (swt) did not declare it a cowardice act but Allah's (swt) judgment does not matter to you, does it?  It is clear who is moaning here.

Allah also mentions plenty of things in the Qur'an. Those who raise their voices in front of the Prophet s.a.w and who put their voices above the Prophet's s.a.w voice.

This is an old argument for which Hassan Shaytanyari was destroyed by a Sunni brother in Germany.  That aside, prove to me the verse condemns them.  Go on!

And they suppose to be the companions of the Prophet s.a.w. They suppose to put the Prophet s.a.w before their own lives. But they put it the other way around..They abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded.

And the 12th Imam is supposed to be a descendant of the Holy Prophet (saw).  He is supposed to put the religion of the Holy Prophet (saw) before his own life.  But he put it the other way around.  He abandoned the religion of the Holy Prophet (saw) and left Muslims stranded.

And the verses you speak about in the Qur'an are for those and in praise of those who didn't flee.

Why would Allah (swt) forgive those who did not run?  The ones who ran were forgiven and the ones who did not, the verses that praise them do not include your Imams (ra) except Imam Ali (ra).

So 11 out of 12 are out, lol!

The Sahaba you speak about opposed the Prophet s.a.w in his final days as well as in the battlefield by fleeing.

Too bad!  For argument's sake, I will pretend your accusations are true.  Then again, none of your "infallibles" (ra) could do a darn thing about it.  Mere spectators, lol.

As far as Imamah and the 12th Imam is concerned, first free your brainwashed mind by having an open mind and do some research.

First, ask him to present himself before us.  No wait, first you've to assemble 313 men.  Ah, this keeps going from worse to worst for you lot