Giving Da'wah to Shia

[mohammed.afwan]

As salaamu alaikum... May Peace be with you all my brothers and sisters.
This thread is started to share ideas on how to give dawah to a shia person, and the points that will make them question their belief with complete respect so we all can benefit from it as we all come across shia and hence knowing about them is really going to help us to ask them question their aqaaed.
Jazak Allaah

[Bolani Muslim]

Coming from a devout Shia family, these are some things that I've noticed and thought:
*Shias tend to be very stubborn and a bit arrogant (at least I was), Shias have this mentality that their religion makes so much sense without having read any arguments against what they want to believe. I have a Shia friend I'm trying to convert, but every time I tell him about islam, his rebuttal is "Don't be a Wahhabi".
*Most Shias are ignorant about many Shia beliefs (moving of verses around in Quran, takfir of Sahaba)
*Shias believe that Sunnis don't give the Ahlul Bayt a high status (my mom thinks Shia=Ahlul Bayt, Sunni=Abu Bakr ra Omar ra)
*Shias think Sunnis are terrorists (some shia on FB wouldn't believe that  Shia terrorists exist)
*Shias believe they're logical
*Shias believe they want unity, whereas Sunnis don't
*Shias believe that ex-shias don't exist, whereas ex-'wahabis' are all over the place

When I was growing up in the temple, these were the main arguments they taught us (and still go on about):
*1st and foremost was Ghadeer
*2nd Pen and Paper Trajety of Thursday
*3rd Fadak
*4th Hazrat Fatima stuck by door incident
*5th The idea that Shias represent Ahlul Bayt (Naozobillah)
If you manage to destroy one of these arguments, than that's a huge blow for Shias (for me it was)

I need some help, I do not know how to ask for help.. I am giving a dawah to a shia girl who just became shia from sunni.. Please can someone message me and help me out..

*I personally think the best thing to do is not to talk in person (shias argue too much in person), instead message of email her and ask her why she converted, then reply to her issues without using links (copy paste the important parts instead). Mention to her just as ex-Sunnis like her exist, so do ex-Shias, the idea that Shias would leave 'madhab' of Ahlul Bayt and Logic was a big blow to me.

[Taha]

*Shias tend to be very stubborn and a bit arrogant (at least I was), Shias have this mentality that their religion makes so much sense without having read any arguments against what they want to believe.

This x1,000,000,000,000,000,000

[Bolani Muslim]

^Taha, you still an akhbari shia?

[Taha]

^Taha, you still an akhbari shia?

Define "akhbari" and "shia".

I do not do taqleed.  But I reject many of the ideals of the Akhbari movement.

I believe that `Ali is the Master of Believers.  But I don't make takfeer of those companions that didn't go to war with him.


You tell me.  I'm not good with labels.

[Bolani Muslim]

Personalized Akhbari? 

[mohammed.afwan]

brother, this is the arguments she pasted.. It started on my status on facebook and I am glad the brothers so far are not showing any mean attitude towards her Alhumdulillah..  If any of you can help me by telling me the errors in the Shiite books with proper reference, wallahi.. that will be a big blow. About how the beliefs are against the Quran

[Furkan]

you can look at this websites different categories, for example prove to her that shiites definetely did believe that quran was altered (astaghfirullah). This will show that shiism isn't something that can represent islam, since the quran is the heavier part ( sunnah either ahlulbayt)

[Bolani Muslim]

brother, this is the arguments she pasted.. It started on my status on facebook and I am glad the brothers so far are not showing any mean attitude towards her Alhumdulillah..  If any of you can help me by telling me the errors in the Shiite books with proper reference, wallahi.. that will be a big blow. About how the beliefs are against the Quran

What was her argument?

[Rationalist]

As salaamu alaikum... May Peace be with you all my brothers and sisters.
This thread is started to share ideas on how to give dawah to a shia person, and the points that will make them question their belief with complete respect so we all can benefit from it as we all come across shia and hence knowing about them is really going to help us to ask them question their aqaaed.
Jazak Allaah

You will need to do a major study in the following areas:

Seerah of Ahlul Bayt From Sunni sources, 12er Shia sources (Kitab al Irshad)
Nahj Al Balagha
Ilm-Al-Kalam The 12er Shia schools, Mutazilla, Ashariyah, Maturidi
War of Siffin, Jamal, Narwaan
Saqifa, Calipate of Abi Bakr, Umar and Uthmaan
Fadak
Study the 12er Shia ahadith books, their ilm Al Rijaal
The Different Shia sects such as Az-Zaidiyah, Waqifiyah, Ismailis etc.

This should be a good start. Remember don't underestimate 12ers. However, don't overestimate them either. Most of them are blind Muqalids. If you have years of research they won't mess with you.

[Ameen]

I would like to know and learn a lot about Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah but they are too busy in exposing Shiaism without getting to know and learnig about it.

[Ameen]

Ok brother Rationalist, you speak about study on the war of safeen. Well lets here your thoughts,

You have people using their influence on waging war on the Muslim state. They put their demands forward to the 4th Khalif of the Muslims and if the demands are not met they will turn to violence and they did.

The defenition of a terrorist/s is someone or people who are not in authority and use means of violence and threatening behaviour to have their demands met.

Now what is your honest and humble opinion on and about those who rebelled against the Muslim state, who waged war on and against the 4th rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims???

Well what can your opinion be apart from having one leg here and the other there. As far as I know every Ahle Sunnah I have come across has double standards when it comes to such issues.

Those who rebelled against the previous three Khalifs at a minor level compared to Jamal and Safeen are accused of fitna but when it comes to the 4th.....??
 

[Rationalist]

Now what is your honest and humble opinion on and about those who rebelled against the Muslim state, who waged war on and against the 4th rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims???

Well what can your opinion be apart from having one leg here and the other there. As far as I know every Ahle Sunnah I have come across has double standards when it comes to such issues.

Those who rebelled against the previous three Khalifs at a minor level compared to Jamal and Safeen are accused of fitna but when it comes to the 4th.....??

The Sunni scholars have made it clear that those who fought against Imam Ali (as) are transgressors, and sahaba like Talha, Zubair and Ayesha repented. Whereas Muawiyah remember his father also opposed Abi Bakr's rule, but it was Imam Ali who protected Abi Bakr's rule from the Ummawis.

Well what can your opinion be apart from having one leg here and the other there. As far as I know every Ahle Sunnah I have come across has double standards when it comes to such issues.

The 12ers have double standards when it comes to the belief on the completeness of the Quran. There is no takfir against those who believe the Quran is incomplete. Likewise, from the Sunni side most scholars did not authenticate the ahadith where cursing Imam Ali (as) is equal to cursing the Prophet.

[Ameen]

So how exactly did Talah and Zubair repent??? And Aisha (ra) went straight in to battle and faced defeat, how is this repent? Double standards when it comes to Shias??? Well you claim yourself that certain Shias believe in so and so. Where is the double standards? Give me an example where Shias apply one thing here and a other there??? Tehreef e Quran??? Well Shias either believe in it and some don't, so where is the double standards here??? This is not about the first Khalif's son is responsible for Fitna against the third Khalif so no praise and respect for him but when it comes to his sisters against the fourth then our tone changes.

[Rationalist]

So how exactly did Talah and Zubair repent??? And Aisha (ra) went straight in to battle and faced defeat, how is this repent?

From a 12er Shia website
The battle of Jamal was fought, Ali 's army was victorious, both Talha and Zubair were killed by their own men and bibi Ayesha was sent back to Madina under the escort of her brother Muhammad ibne Abibakr. She always repented this venture and asked forgiveness from God. When with the connivance of Moawiya her brother Muhammad ibne abi bakr was killed and his body was put into the body of a dead camel and burnt, she cursed Moawiya five times a day after every prayer, throughout her life..

http://www.al-islam.org/kaaba14/4.htm

As for other sources there are many in the Sunni books.

"When Hadhrath Ayesha used to recite the Ayat ("And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance;.." Al-Quran 33:33) she used to cry so much that her cover used to get wet with tears".(Tafsir Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 196 commentary of Surah Ahzab, Hilayat al Awliya Volume 2 page 48, Chapter "Dhikr Ayesha" and Tabaqat al Kabeer Volume 8 page 81 under the Chapter "Dhikr Ayesha")



"على أن معشر اهل الحق من اهل السنة والجماعة يعتقدون أن معاوية كان مخطئاً، بغى على الإمام الحق علي بن أبي طالب لسبق البيعة والخلافة له رضي الله عنه، وهو مصيب بمحاربة معاوية وأصحابه بحكم قتال أهل البغي من المسلمين، ولذا لم يعاملهم معاملة المرتدين ولاالكافرين، وأن عائشة وطلحة والزبير رضي الله عنهم قد رجعوا عن خطئهم بخروجهم في وقعة الجمل على أمير المؤمنين، وقد ندموا على خروجهم متأسفين، والندم توبة من الخطيئة، فاتبع الحق ولاتتبع الهوى فيضلك عن سبيل الله والله أعلم". اهـ.

- Allama Al-Fakhouri, the grand Shafi’iy Mufti of Beirut ( rahmatullahi alayhi) said in his book “ Tarikh al-islam” ( History of Islam), page 67:

“ The people of righteousness ( Ahlul Haqq) of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jam’a believe that Mu’awiyah was mistaken, transgressed on the righteous Khalifah Ali bin Abi Taleb. As he had the Bay’ah and Khilafah, radiya’Allahu anhu. And that he –Ali- is righteous in fighting Mu’awiyah and his companions based on the rules of Transgressors of Muslims, hence, he did not treat them as Kuffar (blasphemers) nor rejectors. And that Aisha, Talha and Zubair, radiya’Allahu anhum, all repented for their mistake to go to the battle of Jamal, and they regretted it sorrowfully. Regret is a sign of –sincere- repentance, so follow the truth not your desires, otherwise you will deviate from the path of Allah, and Allah knows best”.

Double standards when it comes to Shias??? Well you claim yourself that certain Shias believe in so and so. Where is the double standards? Give me an example where Shias apply one thing here and a other there??? Tehreef e Quran??? Well Shias either believe in it and some don't, so where is the double standards here???

So tell me Ameen if there is no double standard do you consider the Shias who believe in Tehreef e Quran to be Kaffirs. Is there a fatwa among the 12ers that those who believe in Tehreef are kaffirs ?
 

This is not about the first Khalif's son is responsible for Fitna against the third Khalif so no praise and respect for him but when it comes to his sisters against the fourth then our tone changes.

Open a new topic if you want to discuss that. Remember there are some 12ers who curse Bilal and Abdullah ibn Abbas. Therefore, you will have different views in all the different schools of thought.