Presentation

[Husamah]

As Salamu ´alaykum wa RahmatuLlah wa BarakatuHu! BismiLlahi ar Rahmani ar Rahim; my name is Husamah and I'm 17 years old girl. Two years ago I became a Muslim, alHamduliLlah! I'm Sunni and I belong to the Madhhab Hanafi. I study Hanafi civil and criminal law. I'm very interested in everything related to Aqeedah, Fiqh and Tafseer. And I'm interested in Middle East politic situation, too. I registered on this forum to learn more about Twelver Shia and to confront with you. PS. If a brother or sister wants some clarification on issues of Hanafi Fiqh I'm very pleased to help you or satisfy your curiosity! Wassalam

[Sheikh]

Wa `alaykum asalaam, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your reversion.

I've never been big on fiqh so I'm sure your knowledge will come in handy.

[Hani]

If this were a Twelver Shia forum they'd begin by stating that Imam abu Hanifah was ignorant, he learned everything from their Imam Ja`far and therefore you must become Twelver Shia.

Anyway, since this forum specializes in refuting Twelver Shia, ask away what you would like to know?

[Husamah]

Wa ´alaykum as Salam dear brothers, thank you for welcoming me. However, I know that this forum refutes Twelver Shia! Infact, I said that I want to learn more about Twelver Shia because I'm interested to understand everything points where Twelver deviate from Islam. I saw that there are also ex-shiite in this forum, so I think that you can help me to learn a lots of things and I'd like to know the various reasons that led ex-shiites on Straight Path, alHamduliLlah. At moment, I know two/three fatawas about that refute twelver shia. Excuse me for very bad english, I'm italian! Baraka Allahu fikum brothers!

[Hani]

Well, Twelvers are called Twelvers because they believe in twelve leaders after the Prophet (saw). I have recorded a lecture on youtube listing some of what the Twelvers believe regarding those 12 men, listen and let me know what you think, do these beliefs seem logical? Are they reconcilable with Qur'an, Seerah or Sunnah?

[Husamah]

As Salamu ´alaykum brother! Well, so now I know some other heretical beliefs of Twelver Shiites creed. Some of the points you listed I had found them in a fatwa but some I didn't know them. Their creed is terrible! It's batil and fitna. Congratulation for your lesson you have recorded on You Tube, I think it's very important for us Muslims to know the Twelver Shia heresy. So we can stay away from this deviant sect. Of course, the beliefs of the Twelver Shia have no proofs in the Noble Qur´an or in the Sunnah, and frankly, I can't even find a logical basis in their absurde claim. May Allah protect us from their blasphemies! Another thing, in reference to your first answer where you've mentioned Jafar ibn Muhammad al Sadiq (ra): yes, he was a teacher of Imam Abu Hanifa (ra); the Twelver shiites say he was one of their 12 infallible aimmah, but in truth, as you already know, he wasn't a Twelver Shiite and his creed was the creed of Ahl as-Sunnah. Shukran wa Jazaka Allahu khayran

[MuslimAnswers]

If this were a Twelver Shia forum they'd begin by stating that Imam abu Hanifah was ignorant, he learned everything from their Imam Ja`far and therefore you must become Twelver Shia.

Anyway, since this forum specializes in refuting Twelver Shia, ask away what you would like to know?

I always considered this argument if true, if anything, an argument against their views, since it is quite common for the earlier Imams of Fiqh to have multiple transmissions of their rulings from their students; supposing everything to be a big conspiracy in Aqeedah, in Usool, in Fiqh, in Lughah, etc., with the truth maintained by very few narrators is going into the arena of incredulity- if extended somewhat more, such a 'Madhab of thought' can very well be 'used' to disprove Islam altogether.

[MuslimK]

Welcome to the forum sister.

[Husamah]

Welcome to the forum sister.

Shukran!

[Hani]

As Salamu ´alaykum brother! Well, so now I know some other heretical beliefs of Twelver Shiites creed. Some of the points you listed I had found them in a fatwa but some I didn't know them. Their creed is terrible! It's batil and fitna. Congratulation for your lesson you have recorded on You Tube, I think it's very important for us Muslims to know the Twelver Shia heresy. So we can stay away from this deviant sect. Of course, the beliefs of the Twelver Shia have no proofs in the Noble Qur´an or in the Sunnah, and frankly, I can't even find a logical basis in their absurde claim. May Allah protect us from their blasphemies! Another thing, in reference to your first answer where you've mentioned Jafar ibn Muhammad al Sadiq (ra): yes, he was a teacher of Imam Abu Hanifa (ra); the Twelver shiites say he was one of their 12 infallible aimmah, but in truth, as you already know, he wasn't a Twelver Shiite and his creed was the creed of Ahl as-Sunnah. Shukran wa Jazaka Allahu khayran

Praise be to God who made the path clear so that no deviant will find himself an excuse. Twelvers don't understand the basic concepts of student teacher relations in Islamic scholarly circles, each student has a bunch of teachers not just one. `Ali bin Husayn did learn from his father but also had many other teachers such as Sa`id bin Jubayr. So if aba Hanifah al-Nu`man spent two years with Ja`far bin Muhammad and learned from him, Ja`far was NOT abu Hanifah's main teacher, his main teachers were Hammad and `Amir as I recall and he took most knowledge from them. Secondly, this is in support of our jurisprudence and our beliefs, for if they claim that two of the main Imams of Fiqh (aba Hanifah & Malik) took knowledge from certain Imams of Ahlul-Bayt, this means that their teachings are the true teachings of those Imams and reflect the Madhab of Ahlul-Bayt as opposed to the Rafidi Shia.

[omar111]

It is true that Imam Abu Hanifah does narrate some ahadith from Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq. But that was according to the habit of the 'ulama to narrate from even their contemporaries. If that alone is to be taken as evidence that Imam Abu Hanifah "studied" under Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq, then we will be bound to conclude that Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq similarly learnt from people other than his father, such as Ibn Shihab az-Zuhri, 'Ata ibn Abi Rabah, 'Urwah ibn Zubayr and Muhammad ibn al-Munkadir. Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq has narrated hadith from all of these men, and even others besides them. (Tahdhib al-Kamal vol. 5 p. 75)Abu Hanifah was 3 years older than Ja'far as-Sadiq.
Twelver shias are kafir because they deny the finality of prophethood.