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What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.

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muslim720

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2016, 01:37:14 AM »
Wow, you really came prepared.  Did you notice how in the forefront of your references was History of Tabari?  Allow me to share with you the introduction of Tabari because I know you have never seen the volume in your life.

"I shall likewise mention those (narrators) who came after them, giving additional information about them. I do this so that it can be clarified whose transmission (of traditions) is praised and whose information is transmitted, whose transmission is to be rejected and whose transmission is to be disregarded…The reader should know that with respect to all I have mentioned and made it a condition to set down in this book of mine, I rely upon traditions and reports which have been transmitted and which I attribute to their transmitters. I rely only very rarely upon (my own) rationality and internal thought processes. For no knowledge of the history of men of the past and of recent men and events is attainable by those who were not able to observe them and did not live in their time, except through information and transmission produced by informants and transmitters. This knowledge cannot be brought out by reason or produced by internal thought processes. This book of mine may contain some information mentioned by me on the authority of certain men of the past, which the reader may disapprove of and the listener may find detestable, because he can find nothing sound and no real meaning in it. In such cases, he should know that it is not my fault that such information comes to him, but the fault of someone who transmitted it to me. I have merely reported it as it was reported to me."

You are looking at pages 100-something and did not know that the introduction refutes your entire paradigm.  Same applies for all your other sources.  However, it is good to know that you have nothing to offer in response to Imam Ali (ra) angering Fatima (ra).
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2016, 01:44:49 AM »
So you're saying the prophet (SAW) issued a command for a pen & paper to write his will & Ali failed to carry out this task?

muslim720

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2016, 01:47:36 AM »
Lol only tabari? There is at least 30 other sources there  ;)

That is your best source because Al-Kamil fi al-Tarikh (by Ibn Athir) was sourced from History of Tabari.  The rest of your "historical references" are as pathetic as your existence.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2016, 01:59:55 AM »
lol , I've seen this website quote these books when writing an article, sunnis will use these books if it's works for them, if it works against them, then it magically becomes unreliable! Come up with better excuses bro, ur own youth are having nightmares reading these narrations and the whole "weak narrations" excuse just doesn't cut it for them

First of all, please do not refer to me as "bro".  We have nothing in common; neither religion nor country.  Secondly, do not project your cowardice on us!  It is your habit to weaken your own books or parts thereof if they weaken your position.  This is why two-thirds of Al-Kafi is said to be weak.  We, on the other hand, have openly and proudly declared two of our books as "sahihain" (Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim).  Do you have a case against us from them?
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2016, 02:12:04 AM »
So according to you Ali failed to carry out the command of the prophet (SAW)

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2016, 03:00:28 AM »
So according to you Ali failed to carry out the command of the prophet (SAW)

No bro, the sahaba argued amongst each other and The Prophet (saw) kicked them out, these are all tests from Allah

Did the prophet (SAW) live after this day? Did anyone stop him writing anything after this day? Did Ali write it down on his order after this day?

If it was so important i'm sure it would have been done.

Unless you are suggesting the Prophet (SAW) failed to convey the message? Ali failed too?


zaid_ibn_ali

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2016, 03:17:47 AM »
Huh so you're saying the Prophet (SAW) failed to convey this revelation?
Then call me a kafir? The irony.


BULB

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2016, 04:33:06 AM »

@muslim720 Fabricated grievances. Lol... I didn't know Bukhari was fabricated.  Thank you for the inside info.  :D


muslim720

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2016, 07:49:22 AM »
Now you know that Imam Ali (ra) angered Fatima (ra) and hopefully you will no longer parrot "he who angers Fatima angers me" without contemplation.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

BULB

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2016, 04:53:31 PM »
Now you know that Imam Ali (ra) angered Fatima (ra) and hopefully you will no longer parrot "he who angers Fatima angers me" without contemplation.

Of course I know who did.
Fatima became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him and did not talk to him until she died… When she died, her husband Ali buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself.” (Sahih Bukhari 5.59.546) According to Sahih Bukhari, Aisha also said, “Fatima, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle got angry ans stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude until she died.” (Sahih Bukhari 4.53.325)

 ;D

muslim720

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2016, 08:19:32 PM »
Fatima became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him and did not talk to him until she died…

Oh no, you got me.  I hope you don't have any evidence to support your claim.

Quote
When she died, her husband Ali buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself.” (Sahih Bukhari 5.59.546) According to Sahih Bukhari, Aisha also said, “Fatima, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle got angry ans stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude until she died.” (Sahih Bukhari 4.53.325)

No way!  You have proof!  I don't know how to answer.........except we have been doing this since you were busy slapping your face on Ashura.

The narrations you have quoted both fall under the issue of Fadak.  Therefore, if you read the full narration and its explanation, it becomes clear that Fatima (ra) stopped speaking to Abu Bakr (ra) regarding Fadak.  In other words, Fatima (ra) stopped mentioned Fadak to Abu Bakr (ra); it does not state that she completely cut ties with him.

As for her burial, the Prophet (saw) was also buried at night.  What is your point?

Here is where you are hypocrite.  You have made "he who angers Fatima angers me" a cornerstone of your belief system but you ignore another authentic Prophetic narration, existing in both Shia and Sunni texts, which says "Prophets do not leave inheritance".  While they are both Prophetic sayings, you are strict with the former but very lapse with the latter.  We, on the other hand, look at both simultaneously and give both equal value.

The Prophet (saw) said that Prophets (asws) do not leave inheritance.  Abu Bakr (ra) upheld that Prophetic saying.  If that angers Fatima (ra) then that is just too bad.  Fatima's (ra) reaction makes her look bad, not Abu Bakr (ra)....though we do not believe that the whole misunderstanding was as dramatic as your lot believes it was so as to warrant an imaginary khutbah (Khutbah Fadak, a story which has weak chains) and other gymnastics.

Again, to twist that knife stuck in your heart a bit more, Abu Bakr (ra) was upon the Sunnah in regards to Fadak.  If that upsets you, tough luck! 


 ;D

[/quote]
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 08:21:18 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Hani

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2016, 11:49:22 PM »
It's true that she didnt speak to him specifically regarding Fadak.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Mythbuster1

Re: What do sunnis think of this? Umar died a non believer.
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2016, 05:19:14 PM »
Wow after centuries of lying to keep their sect afloat, mr bulb has come up with a game changer argument...........AGAIN by using half hadiths

No wonder it's a small and a miserable sect built on lies and abuses and will remain small to be finished at end times by imam Mahdi himself.......aaah the IRONY......Alhamdulillah

 

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