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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: scusemyenglish on August 19, 2016, 07:00:58 PM

Title: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: scusemyenglish on August 19, 2016, 07:00:58 PM
All is in the title.

Say what the shiasme has brought you, spriritualy , culturally,way of thinking, politically  etc...

It's an important thread because for me it's the moment to make an assessement .

I have discovered shiasme 1 year ago an many things has changed in my way of thinking.

Every one can talk in this tread.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: scusemyenglish on August 19, 2016, 09:04:16 PM
The first thing is the pacifism.

To see the hate and bloodshed in this shia sunni split was very hard especilly because before I was an Iran supporter because of Palestinians.

But I have understood  that Iran and shia just want to manipulated Palestinian conflict for political and religious puposes.

That was the worst political disapoitnment of my life!

Because all my life I thought Iran was truthful.

This disapointment and bloodshed has made me very very peaceful ( I was always peaceful but now more)bacause I know there is lot of manipulations...

Seing that I understood formers artists (Otto Dix, Munch, Picasso, Kojima...) who wanted pacifism through their work ...
And why they expressed their trauma of war like (Garnica, first world war, Hiroshima etc...)

Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Rationalist on August 20, 2016, 07:22:29 PM

To see the hate and bloodshed in this shia sunni split was very hard especilly because before I was an Iran supporter because of Palestinians.
The 12ers are always trying to monopolize the emotions to strengthen the dawah.





But I have understood  that Iran and shia just want to manipulated Palestinian conflict for political and religious puposes.

That was the worst political disapoitnment of my life!

Because all my life I thought Iran was truthful.

This disapointment and bloodshed has made me very very peaceful ( I was always peaceful but now more)bacause I know there is lot of manipulations...

Seing that I understood formers artists (Otto Dix, Munch, Picasso, Kojima...) who wanted pacifism through their work ...
And why they expressed their trauma of war like (Garnica, first world war, Hiroshima etc...)


[/quote]
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: scusemyenglish on August 20, 2016, 08:55:57 PM

To see the hate and bloodshed in this shia sunni split was very hard especilly because before I was an Iran supporter because of Palestinians.
The 12ers are always trying to monopolize the emotions to strengthen the dawah.





But I have understood  that Iran and shia just want to manipulated Palestinian conflict for political and religious puposes.

That was the worst political disapoitnment of my life!

Because all my life I thought Iran was truthful.

This disapointment and bloodshed has made me very very peaceful ( I was always peaceful but now more)bacause I know there is lot of manipulations...

Seing that I understood formers artists (Otto Dix, Munch, Picasso, Kojima...) who wanted pacifism through their work ...
And why they expressed their trauma of war like (Garnica, first world war, Hiroshima etc...)


[/quote]

Sahit.

Do you think if Palestinians have understood this manipulation or not yet?
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: scusemyenglish on August 20, 2016, 09:06:01 PM
Psyritually the second thing that shiasme has brought me is the fact that I have discovered Ibn Taymiya and "his" worderful methodology...

I have seen one debate in frenche on Fadak tv between one shia and one french sunni.

Then I have noticed the shias screamed every time against Ibn Taymiya.

Then I have do resherch about Ibn Taymoya and I have discovered Yaya Michot (specialist of Ibn Taymiya) one Belgium man convert to Islam. in 1970.

He says " Ibn Taymiya had alsways THE HADITH,  THE EVIDENCE that his oponents have forgotten! He gathered all proof then he gave his advice his fatawa"

Personnaly I was impresseved by this methodology.

Because if our scholars gahter all proofs? How they can do mistakes?

Spiritually it was very useful because I have seen the faith " Rise and fall".

And like you see other group it's enough to say " I believe in the main creed and I go to paradise"

But for Ahl sounna to believe in the creed it's not enough for go to paradise.

Then I have read many books about the fact that the faith "rise and fall" and that has completely change my spiritual life .  Because now I know How I can be very quiet in my salat.

For that I want to say thank you to Shiasme.

Because without them I would not discovered the real Islam!

Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Rationalist on August 21, 2016, 07:46:52 AM

Sahit.

Do you think if Palestinians have understood this manipulation or not yet?
Yes, but they have a takfiri view against the 12ers which is very wrong. There is a lack of education on the Sunnis side on the 12ers. If our dawah center wants to explain why 12ers are wrong, we have limited information and most place present a takfiri view. u

For the 12ers its different. The first thing they teach them to do taqiyyah on takfiri views.  Again lying is a sin too, but I have to admit 12ers very dangerous because of this pillar of taqiyyah.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: scusemyenglish on August 22, 2016, 12:09:17 PM

Sahit.

Do you think if Palestinians have understood this manipulation or not yet?
Yes, but they have a takfiri view against the 12ers which is very wrong. There is a lack of education on the Sunnis side on the 12ers. If our dawah center wants to explain why 12ers are wrong, we have limited information and most place present a takfiri view. u

For the 12ers its different. The first thing they teach them to do taqiyyah on takfiri views.  Again lying is a sin too, but I have to admit 12ers very dangerous because of this pillar of taqiyyah.

You imply Palestinians are not aware because of shia's taquiya?
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Rationalist on August 22, 2016, 11:28:16 PM

Sahit.

Do you think if Palestinians have understood this manipulation or not yet?
Yes, but they have a takfiri view against the 12ers which is very wrong. There is a lack of education on the Sunnis side on the 12ers. If our dawah center wants to explain why 12ers are wrong, we have limited information and most place present a takfiri view. u

For the 12ers its different. The first thing they teach them to do taqiyyah on takfiri views.  Again lying is a sin too, but I have to admit 12ers very dangerous because of this pillar of taqiyyah.

You imply Palestinians are not aware because of shia's taquiya?

Some of might forget when Iran helps them being unaware that they are only doing it for dawah purposes.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: MuslimK on August 23, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
Fitna
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: الحمار الشيعي١ on August 24, 2016, 06:51:52 PM
All is in the title.

Say what the shiasme has brought you, spriritualy , culturally,way of thinking, politically  etc...

It's an important thread because for me it's the moment to make an assessement .

I have discovered shiasme 1 year ago an many things has changed in my way of thinking.

Every one can talk in this tread.

It brought me the true religion of Islam and it's practice and not the additions/neglect of so called "rightful leaders a.k.a khalifates".
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: al-kulayni on August 25, 2016, 04:23:23 PM
Waste of time.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: scusemyenglish on August 25, 2016, 04:46:18 PM
Waste of time.

10 000 hours lost...
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: muslim720 on August 25, 2016, 05:07:14 PM
Shiaism has strengthened my resolve and convinced me that Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah is the true, mainstream Islam.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: الحمار الشيعي١ on August 25, 2016, 08:38:29 PM
Shiaism has strengthened my resolve and convinced me that Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah is the true, mainstream Islam.
mainstream Islam that is the problem, you blindly follow like sheep the masses, not the Islam of the Prophet S.A.A.W.W

Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: al-Habib on August 26, 2016, 01:18:59 AM
After finding about Shiism, I had a zeal for learning about islamic sciences such as seerah, hadith etc.  Once you know even a little you will find that Shiites only have flimsy legs to stand on.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: الحمار الشيعي١ on August 26, 2016, 01:40:20 AM
After finding about Shiism, I had a zeal for learning about islamic sciences such as seerah, hadith etc.  Once you know even a little you will find that Shiites only have flimsy legs to stand on.
Oh yeah?  what Seerah? insulting the prophet and saying he is a liar, possessed and drink alcohol in bukhari and muslim?
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: al-Habib on August 26, 2016, 01:46:59 AM
Off-topic.  If you want make a thread about it so you can be destroyed in them.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: muslim720 on August 26, 2016, 03:47:10 AM
mainstream Islam that is the problem, you blindly follow like sheep the masses, not the Islam of the Prophet S.A.A.W.W

Funny that you should accuse us of "blindly" following "like sheep" when you are required to pick a marja' taqleed to adhere to.  In case you did not know or forgot, "taqleed" literally means "to follow".
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: الحمار الشيعي١ on August 26, 2016, 04:42:33 AM
Off-topic.  If you want make a thread about it so you can be destroyed in them.
Awww poor baby crying that I have him in the corner  :'( Answer me about this hadith do you believe it is true? because it is sahih.??? do you believe that the porphet s.a.a.w.w. was bewitched? Aisha does.
-----------------------------------
Sahih al-Bukhari 3268 Narrated `Aisha:the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing

عَائِشَةَ قَالَتْ سُحِرَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم حَتَّى كَانَ يُخَيَّلُ إِلَيْهِ أَنَّهُ يَفْعَلُ الشَّىْءَ وَمَا يَفْعَلُهُ، (صحيح البخاري - كتاب بدء الخلق- صفة إبليس وجنوده
3095)
-----------------------------------



Funny that you should accuse us of "blindly" following "like sheep" when you are required to pick a marja' taqleed to adhere to.  In case you did not know or forgot, "taqleed" literally means "to follow".
We shia don't have this though.
Sunan Abi Dawud 2533 and prayer is obligatory on you behind every muslim who is Clear of sins or
licentious even if he sinned greatly. وَالصَّلاَةُ وَاجِبَةٌ عَلَيْكُمْ خَلْفَ كُلِّ مُسْلِمٍ بَرًّا كَانَ أَوْ فَاجِرًا وَإِنْ عَمِلَ الْكَبَائِرَ
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: muslim720 on August 26, 2016, 11:48:48 AM
We shia don't have this though.

Don't have what?  The narration from Sunan Abu Dawud (which you have blindly copy-pasted therefore further proof to you being a blind follower as I will prove in a second) or marja' taqleed?  If you meant the former, I will refute you in a bit.  If you meant the latter, which other Islamic sect has marja' taqleed (except Shias)? 

Quote
Sunan Abi Dawud 2533 and prayer is obligatory on you behind every muslim who is Clear of sins or
licentious even if he sinned greatly. وَالصَّلاَةُ وَاجِبَةٌ عَلَيْكُمْ خَلْفَ كُلِّ مُسْلِمٍ بَرًّا كَانَ أَوْ فَاجِرًا وَإِنْ عَمِلَ الْكَبَائِرَ


Treachery of the highest order on your part to insert "licentious" in the hadith and to take it out of context.  Here is the narration.

It was reported from Makhul from Abu Hurairah, that he said: “The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: ‘Jihad is obligatory on you with every commander, righteous or wicked, and the prayer is binding behind every Muslim, righteous or wicked, even if he commits major sins.  And (funeral) prayer is obligatory for every Muslim, whether, righteous or wicked even if he commits major sins.” (Da’if)

This narration is classified as da'eef or weak.

http://islamicresearcher.blogspot.com/2012/03/sunan-abu-dawud-book-15-book-of-jihad.html?_sm_au_=iVVkrSWkv05vbKLM
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Abu Muhammad on August 26, 2016, 11:58:03 AM
All is in the title.

Say what the shiasme has brought you, spriritualy , culturally,way of thinking, politically  etc...

It's an important thread because for me it's the moment to make an assessement .

I have discovered shiasme 1 year ago an many things has changed in my way of thinking.

Every one can talk in this tread.

It brought me the true religion of Islam and it's practice and not the additions/neglect of so called "rightful leaders a.k.a khalifates".

It brought me a FALSE religion of Islam and it's practices who claims that it is the Lutf of Allah that human is bestowed guidance via infallible imams whose function are to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) for the people and clear up confusing things and events which may happen in each era whereas in reality, that function, for almost the entire history of this religion, are performed by fallible ulama'.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: الحمار الشيعي١ on August 26, 2016, 07:18:17 PM
All is in the title.

Say what the shiasme has brought you, spriritualy , culturally,way of thinking, politically  etc...

It's an important thread because for me it's the moment to make an assessement .

I have discovered shiasme 1 year ago an many things has changed in my way of thinking.

Every one can talk in this tread.

It brought me the true religion of Islam and it's practice and not the additions/neglect of so called "rightful leaders a.k.a khalifates".

It brought me a FALSE religion of Islam and it's practices who claims that it is the Lutf of Allah that human is bestowed guidance via infallible imams whose function are to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) for the people and clear up confusing things and events which may happen in each era whereas in reality, that function, for almost the entire history of this religion, are performed by fallible ulama'.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
وإذ ابتلى إبراهيم ربه بكلمات فأتمهن قال إني جاعلك للناس إماما قال ومن ذريتي قال لا ينال عهدي الظالمين 
صدق الله العلي الغظيم
ِAl baqara: 124: Allah told Ibrahim a.s. "I am making you an Imam to the people" and Ibrahim was infallible. You should read the Quran. Now you are a kaffir because you are not a mumin in Imams who are infallible when the Quran told you about Ibrahim a.s.[/size]
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Abu Muhammad on August 26, 2016, 07:45:23 PM

It brought me the true religion of Islam and it's practice and not the additions/neglect of so called "rightful leaders a.k.a khalifates".

It brought me a FALSE religion of Islam and it's practices who claims that it is the Lutf of Allah that human is bestowed guidance via infallible imams whose function are to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) for the people and clear up confusing things and events which may happen in each era whereas in reality, that function, for almost the entire history of this religion, are performed by fallible ulama'.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
وإذ ابتلى إبراهيم ربه بكلمات فأتمهن قال إني جاعلك للناس إماما قال ومن ذريتي قال لا ينال عهدي الظالمين 
صدق الله العلي الغظيم
ِAl baqara: 124: Allah told Ibrahim a.s. "I am making you an Imam to the people" and Ibrahim was infallible. You should read the Quran. Now you are a kaffir because you are not a mumin in Imams who are infallible when the Quran told you about Ibrahim a.s.[/size]

Hahaha... now it's my turn to laugh. You just typed something for the sake of typing something.

What I said was Shia claims that human needs infallible imam to guide, explain, elaborate sharia, clear up confusion, etc. or else it goes against Lutf of Allah. And suddenly for more than 1,100 years, Shia rely on fallible ulama' for all those functions that I listed above. Don't you find that weird and irony?
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: الحمار الشيعي١ on August 26, 2016, 07:55:23 PM

It brought me the true religion of Islam and it's practice and not the additions/neglect of so called "rightful leaders a.k.a khalifates".

It brought me a FALSE religion of Islam and it's practices who claims that it is the Lutf of Allah that human is bestowed guidance via infallible imams whose function are to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) for the people and clear up confusing things and events which may happen in each era whereas in reality, that function, for almost the entire history of this religion, are performed by fallible ulama'.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
وإذ ابتلى إبراهيم ربه بكلمات فأتمهن قال إني جاعلك للناس إماما قال ومن ذريتي قال لا ينال عهدي الظالمين 
صدق الله العلي الغظيم
ِAl baqara: 124: Allah told Ibrahim a.s. "I am making you an Imam to the people" and Ibrahim was infallible. You should read the Quran. Now you are a kaffir because you are not a mumin in Imams who are infallible when the Quran told you about Ibrahim a.s.[/size]

Hahaha... now it's my turn to laugh. You just typed something for the sake of typing something.

What I said was Shia claims that human needs infallible imam to guide, explain, elaborate sharia, clear up confusion, etc. or else it goes against Lutf of Allah. And suddenly for more than 1,100 years, Shia rely on fallible ulama' for all those functions that I listed above. Don't you find that weird and irony?
You are laughing not because it's funny, but because you are nervous and was surprised by what I had in the mystery box. Yes under your nose and your whole doctrine, we need Imams to guide us just like Ibrahim a.s. was an Imam and explained and elaborated his sharia. Opse. Second of all we don't rely on fallible ulama like the Sunnis do like sheep, they are scholars who have studied books all their lives who inform us of things we might not know as ordinary people.
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Abu Muhammad on August 26, 2016, 07:59:55 PM

Hahaha... now it's my turn to laugh. You just typed something for the sake of typing something.

What I said was Shia claims that human needs infallible imam to guide, explain, elaborate sharia, clear up confusion, etc. or else it goes against Lutf of Allah. And suddenly for more than 1,100 years, Shia rely on fallible ulama' for all those functions that I listed above. Don't you find that weird and irony?
You are laughing not because it's funny, but because you are nervous and was surprised by what I had in the mystery box. Yes under your nose and your whole doctrine, we need Imams to guide us just like Ibrahim a.s. was an Imam and explained and elaborated his sharia. Opse. Second of all we don't rely on fallible ulama like the Sunnis do like sheep, they are scholars who have studied books all their lives who inform us of things we might not know as ordinary people.

Are those scholars of yours infallible? If not infallible, it goes against the Lutf of Allah. Don't you see that?
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Abu Muhammad on August 27, 2016, 06:01:59 AM

Hahaha... now it's my turn to laugh. You just typed something for the sake of typing something.

What I said was Shia claims that human needs infallible imam to guide, explain, elaborate sharia, clear up confusion, etc. or else it goes against Lutf of Allah. And suddenly for more than 1,100 years, Shia rely on fallible ulama' for all those functions that I listed above. Don't you find that weird and irony?
You are laughing not because it's funny, but because you are nervous and was surprised by what I had in the mystery box. Yes under your nose and your whole doctrine, we need Imams to guide us just like Ibrahim a.s. was an Imam and explained and elaborated his sharia. Opse. Second of all we don't rely on fallible ulama like the Sunnis do like sheep, they are scholars who have studied books all their lives who inform us of things we might not know as ordinary people.

Are those scholars of yours infallible? If not infallible, it goes against the Lutf of Allah. Don't you see that?
Like I said, you are worse than a donkey I have to repeat it more than once. I told you our scholars and us follow ONE imam a.s. Our scholars are fallible and make mistakes. The only difference is that they spend more time in studying religion.

Seems like you are having quite a tough time trying to understand a simple statement.

I repeat what I said.

Shia claims that it is the Lutf of Allah that human is bestowed guidance via infallible imams whose function are to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) for the people and clear up confusing things and events which may happen in each era.

However today (or even for the pst 1,000 years), Shia seek fallible people like Khamenei, Sistani, Shirazi, etc. to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) and clear up confusing things. By not having infallible around to guide people, doesn't that goes against the Lutf of Allah as Shia claim?
Title: Re: What the Shiasm has brought you?
Post by: Abu Muhammad on August 27, 2016, 11:31:46 PM

Seems like you are having quite a tough time trying to understand a simple statement.

I repeat what I said.

Shia claims that it is the Lutf of Allah that human is bestowed guidance via infallible imams whose function are to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) for the people and clear up confusing things and events which may happen in each era.

However today (or even for the pst 1,000 years), Shia seek fallible people like Khamenei, Sistani, Shirazi, etc. to explain, elaborate Shari’a (divine law) and clear up confusing things. By not having infallible around to guide people, doesn't that goes against the Lutf of Allah as Shia claim?

Where do shia claim in is the Lutf of Allah that human is bestowed guidance? Show me from shia sources. Like I said you are worse than a donkey, because you see if you repeat things to a donkey they will start walking but you are a lost case. I will say this for the fourth time since you are worse than a donkey and don’t understand. Shia and Khamenei and Sistani may Allah lengthen their life, follow ONE imam a.s.  But since you are worse than a donkey you don’t get it do you? We seek them because they have dedicated their lives into studying the hadith and Quran to remind us of things that we might have forgotten or not known. You get it now? You probably didn’t because you are worse than a donkey.

You don't know that?! I can't believe that I talk to a Shia who doesn't know his own doctrine. Are you really a Shia or just A DONKEY?

Read this.

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/leadership-and-infallibility-part-1

After you've done reading, please go back to my question above and answer it.